I'm currently running a more reactive shell, BUT I figured swiftspear is just too good to pass. I was running lavamancers, but I put them on the sideboard for now. Stormchaser requires a bit too much of a investment, and in most games we operate with 2 or 3 lands, so it's a bit awkward to tap out for such a low impact creature.
I'm on a 16 creature count and it feels very optimal.
In the Prowess shell with entirely (or almost entirely) one-drops, does Shoal serve a purpose?
Basically just countering lightning bolts or path to exile targeting our dudes. It can also snipe other common one drops (like mana dorks, or tempo creatures) to slow the opponent's early turns. Since I only own three I've been running three and it seems reasonable.
I also run both snapcasters and stormchasers, which can counter a 2 drop in a pinch. Being a counterspell for a clutch ornithopter in a stalled game can be useful as well.
Speaking of snapcasters...maybe it is just because I'm so focused on beating Affinity right now, but I've found dropping pyros for snapcasters MD really helpful. I get that YP can play the grindier game, so I kept a few in the side, but I really wanted the card advantage that comes with snapcaster. Am I off base here (recall that I am pretty new to the format)?
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Supa_tim or some variation on most message boards. I was really involved in the old Wizards boards, mostly on the Legacy and Vintage forums. I leave and come back a lot.
In the low creature count counter shell I'm running sleight is great and doesn't cause problems with delver, in the prowess build its beyond great!That extra digger and another trigger that will more than likely lead into another spell which is another trigger is strong.
In delver and prowess I use Probes,serums,sleights and remands in full four ofs mainly because I like to draw when im playing these decks.Others like more burn, some like more creatures but I like to dig for what I want and toss my lands to the bottom,i finish most games with only 3 lands.
And I'm sorry but you can't convince me tossing snappy to play shoal is a good play,even in a pinch,that's gotta hurt way to much in the long run!
FWIW I'm running a fairly typical delver build but am testing kiln fiend. If you're going to run prowess dudes like abbot of keral keep, I may as well test out the prowessingest dude in the game.
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Modern UB Tezzerator UBW Gifts B 8Rack
Legacy RB Goblins
Incorrect. However, you can pitch a Vision now to counter a Mox Opal .
It IS effectively a counterspell to AV (and living end for that matter), which I suppose can be good.
I feel like spell snare just got a lot better as well.
Do we run AV ourselves?
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Supa_tim or some variation on most message boards. I was really involved in the old Wizards boards, mostly on the Legacy and Vintage forums. I leave and come back a lot.
So I've been slowly building UR Delver over the past few few weeks and am only about 2 cards away from the build I was going for. I also did end up buying a playset of Ancestral Vision a couple months ago. My question is, how many do we play in the MB? I haven't followed the thread recently, so I apologize if this has already been discussed previously. I was thinking 2? Or do we want the whole playset?
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Modern Infect Affinity Grixis Shadow Jekai Nahiri Naya Burn 8-Whack
If we are not playing the Prowess creatures version, are we not playing a controlish deck? I often find myself with no hand later in the game. Maybe I'm playing it wrong haha.
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Modern Infect Affinity Grixis Shadow Jekai Nahiri Naya Burn 8-Whack
I think ancestral vision is the definition of anti-tempo. We often want to sacrifice card advantage for tempo (ie. vapor snag). I don't think doing the opposite of that helps our gameplan. Sure, drawing 3 cards on turn 5, 6 is great. But the cards that we draw are not that powerful. Our counterspells are not that useful in the late game (ie remand, leak) and neither are our creatures.
Don't think visions belongs. I'd imagine if it were good in delver decks it would be played frequently in the legacy delver lists, but as far as i know it is not. I think U/R delver will have great matchups against the AV style decks though. They will be less likely to have 1 mana open early game if they want to visions (could be a removal spell) and if not, they have a dead card. Also remand is perfect against it for when it finally comes off suspend. If aggro decks see a decline (zoo and other blitz decks) and AV decks become more popular i think we can do pretty well. Thoughts guys?
FWIW I'm running a fairly typical delver build but am testing kiln fiend. If you're going to run prowess dudes like abbot of keral keep, I may as well test out the prowessingest dude in the game.
Kiln Fiend has a nice bump in power that fits, but his toughness doesn't change .. so isn't quite Prowessingest. You can have things on hand that take Swiftspear out of bolt range quick, which is probably why she is preferred over Abbot, in addition to her Haste. Kiln Fiend could be better in the URg version of this theme, but if you are going green, you have plenty of creature choices. I do play a Mutagenic Growth in UR Delver and may SB a 2nd just for such things (essentially trade 2 life to do 3 extra damage and counter a bolt as early as T1), But let us know how your testing with him is. For example, how often is he taken off your board as a 2 for 1? That is, the spell you used to buff him, and fiend himself ... realizing he has to stick a full turn before you can swing with him. Expedite may work well if you like Kiln Fiend.
AV needs timecrafting.
It's AV on one,delver and serum/bolt on two and timecrafting on 3. Then your gased up and ready to go the long game.
Now shoal gets real good as we have lots of cards in hand.
Could I get some info please on deck suggestions. I love the delver deck and am open to most color splashes. I don't want to go temur, because I am not spending $600 on Goyfs, and I don't love grixis..but I accept that it is good. My current build is below. What other decks can I build by splashing? UW Control, UWR, others? I want to get a small card pool of staples together to play blue decks (with snapcaster) in modern.
Could I get some info please on deck suggestions. I love the delver deck and am open to most color splashes. I don't want to go temur, because I am not spending $600 on Goyfs, and I don't love grixis..but I accept that it is good. My current build is below. What other decks can I build by splashing? UW Control, UWR, others? I want to get a small card pool of staples together to play blue decks (with snapcaster) in modern.
You could try going Jeskai and add paths and lightning helix. Alternatively, you can stick with the colors you have and go with a spell-heavy deck that relies on prowess creatures such as Stormchaser mage and monastery swiftspear to push through damage. I also really like slip through space to push extra damage through.
AV needs timecrafting.
It's AV on one,delver and serum/bolt on two and timecrafting on 3. Then your gased up and ready to go the long game.
Now shoal gets real good as we have lots of cards in hand.
For sure. My current deck looks like this so far (it's unfinished):
the card itself really isn't worth the card board its printed on...does it serve a purpose? Sure its a blue 1 drop that might not be a 1/1. I would not put it in a list and expect to win a PTQ or GP though.
AV needs timecrafting.
It's AV on one,delver and serum/bolt on two and timecrafting on 3. Then your gased up and ready to go the long game.
Now shoal gets real good as we have lots of cards in hand.
For sure. My current deck looks like this so far (it's unfinished):
I can't tell if you guys are trolling or not. Timecrafting, even in the best case scenario as outlined here looks... mediocre. In this scenario, we're paying two cards and 3-4 mana to draw three cards? You net one card. I'd rather play Divination.
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Homelands.
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I'm on a 16 creature count and it feels very optimal.
4 delver
4 pyro
4 snapcaster
3 swiftspear
1 vendilion clique
Basically just countering lightning bolts or path to exile targeting our dudes. It can also snipe other common one drops (like mana dorks, or tempo creatures) to slow the opponent's early turns. Since I only own three I've been running three and it seems reasonable.
I also run both snapcasters and stormchasers, which can counter a 2 drop in a pinch. Being a counterspell for a clutch ornithopter in a stalled game can be useful as well.
Speaking of snapcasters...maybe it is just because I'm so focused on beating Affinity right now, but I've found dropping pyros for snapcasters MD really helpful. I get that YP can play the grindier game, so I kept a few in the side, but I really wanted the card advantage that comes with snapcaster. Am I off base here (recall that I am pretty new to the format)?
UB Tezzerator
UBW Gifts
B 8Rack
Legacy
RB Goblins
In delver and prowess I use Probes,serums,sleights and remands in full four ofs mainly because I like to draw when im playing these decks.Others like more burn, some like more creatures but I like to dig for what I want and toss my lands to the bottom,i finish most games with only 3 lands.
And I'm sorry but you can't convince me tossing snappy to play shoal is a good play,even in a pinch,that's gotta hurt way to much in the long run!
UB Tezzerator
UBW Gifts
B 8Rack
Legacy
RB Goblins
Incorrect. However, you can pitch a Vision now to counter a Mox Opal
DECKS:
UB Faeries [Midrange/Tempo]
RWUGB Affinity[Aggro]
FAERIES TOO STRONK!!!1111
- Fae Prophecy, 201
5678It IS effectively a counterspell to AV (and living end for that matter), which I suppose can be good.
I feel like spell snare just got a lot better as well.
Do we run AV ourselves?
Kiln Fiend has a nice bump in power that fits, but his toughness doesn't change .. so isn't quite Prowessingest. You can have things on hand that take Swiftspear out of bolt range quick, which is probably why she is preferred over Abbot, in addition to her Haste. Kiln Fiend could be better in the URg version of this theme, but if you are going green, you have plenty of creature choices. I do play a Mutagenic Growth in UR Delver and may SB a 2nd just for such things (essentially trade 2 life to do 3 extra damage and counter a bolt as early as T1), But let us know how your testing with him is. For example, how often is he taken off your board as a 2 for 1? That is, the spell you used to buff him, and fiend himself ... realizing he has to stick a full turn before you can swing with him. Expedite may work well if you like Kiln Fiend.
Modern
URB Grixis Delver
GWB Abzan Company
RWB Mardu Burn
WB Martyr Proc
It's AV on one,delver and serum/bolt on two and timecrafting on 3. Then your gased up and ready to go the long game.
Now shoal gets real good as we have lots of cards in hand.
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Young Pyromancer
2 Grim Lavamancer
2 Blood Moon
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Serum Visions
4 Lightning bolt
3 Vapor Snag
3 Remand
2 Spell Snare
2 Spell Pierce
2 Roast
1 Dismember
1 Electrolyze
4 Flooded Strand
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Steam Vents
6 Island
1 Mountain
1 Izzet Staticaster
1 Gut Shot
1 Electrickery
3 snash to smithereens
1 spellskite
2 neagte
2 dispel
3 Dragon's Claw
1 Threads of Disloyalty
I'm going to try out disrupting shoal to counter those spells.
You could try going Jeskai and add paths and lightning helix. Alternatively, you can stick with the colors you have and go with a spell-heavy deck that relies on prowess creatures such as Stormchaser mage and monastery swiftspear to push through damage. I also really like slip through space to push extra damage through.
Legacy:
My Trade Thread
I'm torn when it comes to the 25 flex spots.
Counter-Cat
Colorless Eldrazi Stompy
It's pretty much the best card in the deck
I can't tell if you guys are trolling or not. Timecrafting, even in the best case scenario as outlined here looks... mediocre. In this scenario, we're paying two cards and 3-4 mana to draw three cards? You net one card. I'd rather play Divination.