Something like this was mentioned, but with Mutagenic Growth instead. Both go towards a much more aggro version. Here though, I think the extra p/t boost of Force isn't enough to outweigh Growth's being free. In a situation with either in hand you can do the same tricks except for taking out a 4/5 Goyf but you also have the extra mana for an actual Bolt, and Growth can play more since you have it even when you're tapped out.
So I want to win the mirror, and the burn matchup.
To this point, the following cards seem integral:
1. Thought Scour- To become the more efficient Treasure Cruise deck. Often the mirror comes down to who gets to cruise 1st and more often. This enables both.
2. Spell Snare- Pyromancer is the best threat if it sticks. Also counters Snappy and any 2 CMC permission. In the burn matchup is king vs. a bevy of spells.
3. Electrickery- In the SB, has been the best card in the mirror. Deserving of 2 spots.
4. Dragon's Claw- Our best card vs. burn. 3-4 in the board is correct.
My question is what else?
Spell pierce seems fine against burn. Seems eh against the mirror.
Remand seems ok against the mirror. Eh against burn.
Anyone have some piece of tech that they have been sitting on, and are ready to divulge here and now for our consideration?
I've heard: Flame Jab, Darkblast, Sword of Fire and Ice, etc... Is anything sticking?
Synergy; Cruise+Swiftspear and Dig+Snapcaster pull in very different directions when you're building the deck.
Hi zemanjaski,
I was the the guy who commented a few hours ago on your article about Treasure Cruise on CFB.
Since Im definitely biased towards control too, I will try out your Dig+Snapcaster version that was posted a few pages ago.
Let's see if this deck is to my liking...
I'd like to try to recruit you to WUR Delver Galerion. Splashing is easy and having access to Lightning Helix, Path to Exile, and Geist of Saint Traft (as well as sideboard cards like Timely Reinforcements), is really good. It also is much better at playing both the aggro and control roles than Delver is, due to having hard to answer threats, lifegain, and removal that hits large creatures. Having stronger spells also works much better with Snapcaster Mage. Please, try it out.
Synergy; Cruise+Swiftspear and Dig+Snapcaster pull in very different directions when you're building the deck.
Hi zemanjaski,
I was the the guy who commented a few hours ago on your article about Treasure Cruise on CFB.
Since Im definitely biased towards control too, I will try out your Dig+Snapcaster version that was posted a few pages ago.
Let's see if this deck is to my liking...
I'd like to try to recruit you to WUR Delver Galerion. Splashing is easy and having access to Lightning Helix, Path to Exile, and Geist of Saint Traft (as well as sideboard cards like Timely Reinforcements), is really good. It also is much better at playing both the aggro and control roles than Delver is, due to having hard to answer threats, lifegain, and removal that hits large creatures. Having stronger spells also works much better with Snapcaster Mage. Please, try it out.
I was having the same thoughts about a more controlish build, and then I decided to splash white on my deck. After that the splash just started to get bigger and bigger, and now I play UWR Delver with 0 regrets. It's exactly the deck I was looking for, it feels perfect to play with it, and I have so many new options I don't even know where to start. I was really unhappy with what happened to UR Delver with the Swiftspear, and I agree with Valanarch that you really should try UWR out.
Synergy; Cruise+Swiftspear and Dig+Snapcaster pull in very different directions when you're building the deck.
Hi zemanjaski,
I was the the guy who commented a few hours ago on your article about Treasure Cruise on CFB.
Since Im definitely biased towards control too, I will try out your Dig+Snapcaster version that was posted a few pages ago.
Let's see if this deck is to my liking...
I'd like to try to recruit you to WUR Delver Galerion. Splashing is easy and having access to Lightning Helix, Path to Exile, and Geist of Saint Traft (as well as sideboard cards like Timely Reinforcements), is really good. It also is much better at playing both the aggro and control roles than Delver is, due to having hard to answer threats, lifegain, and removal that hits large creatures. Having stronger spells also works much better with Snapcaster Mage. Please, try it out.
I was having the same thoughts about a more controlish build, and then I decided to splash white on my deck. After that the splash just started to get bigger and bigger, and now I play UWR Delver with 0 regrets. It's exactly the deck I was looking for, it feels perfect to play with it, and I have so many new options I don't even know where to start. I was really unhappy with what happened to UR Delver with the Swiftspear, and I agree with Valanarch that you really should try UWR out.
Thanks guys. Tonight I may do a bit of testing to see how it goes
I played with a treasure cruise style deck for about 2 weeks before it started to annoy and bore me. I've played this deck before the Khans release and didn't like the way the deck plays with treasure cruise and/or swiftspears. Also, many many people play delver now and the mirrormatches are just boring.
Right now I'm on the same page as zemanjaski and a few others with dig through time and snapcaster mage and I'm having tons of fun with it. The deck is slower (but can still kill on turn 4 if left unchecked), has a better midgame/endgame and plays more controllish. DTT in this deck is more powerful then treasure cruise in my opinion. It's nuts and fun to play and very simular to my pre-Khans deck. Apart from your 1 mana cantrips and a few creatures the whole deck operates at instant speed which makes it unpredictable and suitable for people who like psychological warfare.
Hopefully I'll be able to get a few more games in this week and see how it deals with different decks.
I would also like to address another card that's getting very popular with the new meta: chalice of the void. I'm curious to hear if you run into it as well, how often and how do you deal with it? When people play it on x=1 it's very hard to beat. The best way to deal with it is to counter it of course, but what do you do when it does land? Personally, I currently play 1 shattering spree in the SB, but I have yet to draw/dig it with an active chalice in play.
I would also like to address another card that's getting very popular with the new meta: chalice of the void. I'm curious to hear if you run into it as well, how often and how do you deal with it? When people play it on x=1 it's very hard to beat. The best way to deal with it is to counter it of course, but what do you do when it does land? Personally, I currently play 1 shattering spree in the SB, but I have yet to draw/dig it with an active chalice in play.
I play 3 Spell Snares, and while they are mainly for Goyfs, a Chalice for 1 is also a CC of 2. You could also have a shattering spree in the sideboard, as the replicate copies arent cast and thus arent affected by Chalice of the Void. (I learned that interaction with Pyromancers Ascension).
A quick question for everyone: is gitaxian probe still needed for the DTT-snapcaster version?
In my opinon yes. This is still a free spell and a cantrip for pyromancer. It puts cards in the yard for delve. It's free to flashback with snapcaster if you want to see more cards and you only want to spend 2 mana to do so.
Additionally, you don't have to play the probe on turn 1. you can wait until you set up a draw with Serum Visions, then draw the scryed card the same turn. Or you can wait until it's turn 3 and you want to see what your UR (possibly twin) opponent is up to. Waiting longer to fire off these spells in a control deck makes sense to me, as it gives you the best lines of play when they matter. I can't imagine a deck like his that wouldn't want probe. The information is really important to deciding what you want to scry early (if you choose to play it early), and it has so much upside that I can't really see an argument not to play it
I'm pretty big on Probe since this deck really needs the velocity and information; since perfect sequencing is such a big deal. I could see 3 Probe, 1 Sleight though ~ this would give you slightly more keepable 1 landers.
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Thanks for the answers to everyone.
How often do you cast gitaxian on turn 1 compared to turn 3-4?
One land hands are a thing though, and sometimes I don't have a choice, so for the moment I might try a 3-1 split as you say.
I'm having a tournament this sunday, I'll test that out and report back.
Here's something to think about when you're considering whether to cast Gitaxian Probe: "Will what I see in my opponent's hand affect how I will act until my next turn?"
If the answer is no and there's no immediate benefit to drawing a card or putting a card in the graveyard then don't cast the Probe.
So I played on monday to a 2-1-1 finish with UR Delver though the deck was semi incomplete (I'm missing Vapor Snags as I couldn't find them before the start of the tournament). I beat Mono U Bear Ninja Delver, and Soul Sisters, lost to affinity and went to time against Restore Balance.
The sideboard is mostly remnants from UR Twin which I took apart to build this so it definitely wasn't tuned or optimized at all yet. Against Affinity I won game 1 but lost game 2 and 3 because I didn't have any artifact hate in my sideboard and I feel like I could have easily won if my sideboard was properly prepared. Decks I saw in the room when I was making last minute adjustments was 1x Scapeshift 4x Burn 1x Restore Balance 1x Soul Sisters 3x Affinity 1x Twin 1x NinjaBearDelver 2x Ascendancy Combo 2x Melira Pod. AFAIK I was the only UR Delver deck in the room.
For my first time playing through the deck (hadn't even tested it yet) I was fairly impressed but I feel like I just wasn't being proactive enough and I had terrible luck with my Delvers flipping (taking up to 4 turns to flip even after Serum Visioning to dump to lands to the bottom) Snapcaster Mage was pretty decent still but I feel like I'd change out the 2 Mages and Clique for 3 Vapor Snags in the future. I also am really tempted to add a stomping grounds in the deck over the Sulfur Falls to have access to side board ancient grudge similar to what the UR twin decks do specifically for the affinity mathcup. I also saw a few Chalices running around in peoples side boards to play against burn and Jeskai combo.
As for changes to my sideboard I definitely want to drop batterskull, Kerano, and possibly Teferi (I still love Teferi against scapeshift, UWR control which I think will start appearing soon, the delver mirror, blue decks in general, and he's ridiculously good against restore balance combo though getting to 5 lands can be a challenge). I'm debating on the counterfluxes still they may be better served as negates or annuls or something better served for the meta that is cheaper to cast. Combust feels fine as people were talking about wanting to build UR Delver and I know that there at least 1-3 twin players that show up consistently. I'm not sure if I want to go up on Dragon's Claws but I know a lot of people are playing or building burn because it's so cheap. Everything else I think can be changed to reflect my meta but I'm not exactly sure. I have access to a lot of sideboard cards. I think for next week I'm going to try
I feel like I may be a bit overzealous on the artifact hate but the fact that I can hit chalice's, affinity stuff, kill restore balance's borderposts, pods, etc... is worth it. It might be better to splash a little white for wear//tear instead for more hedging against Jeskai combo, twin, or to take out random enchantments, opposing eidolons, etc... but I'm not completely sure. I feel that 2 for 1ing people on grudge and shatterstorm is going to be a bigger blow out. I definitely need to play the deck more and see how matchups play out more before I completely decide. But I really did enjoy the 2 grudges out of the side for twin but I understand the decks play very differently.
You honestly don't need to make such dramatic changes to beat Affinity.
-2 Spell Pierce, +2 Burst Lightning/Pillar of Flame/Forked Bolt, -1 Vendilion Clique, -1 Treasure Cruise, +2 Electrolyze. Add another Engineered Explosives on the sideboard for Bogle and Affinity, cutting the Teferi (terrible in the aggro/tempo meta right now), and you should be good to go.
I think you need some number of Thought Scour to make effective use of Treasure Cruise, but maybe that's just me. I still prefer the Dig Through Time Snapcaster ('Nap Time) build over the Monastery Swiftspear Treasure Cruise (T Swift) build especially you're going to be playing counters like Spell Pierce, Spell Snare, and Remand. That being said, I personally prefer to be on the control side of the spectrum for Tempo builds, and that differs from person to person.
I was able to cast treasure cruise multiple times in all my matches without any real issue for 1 or 2 mana. There were a couple of times where it sat there kind of dead but sometimes I just played it as a concentrate and it worked well enough. Between gitprobe, bolts, serum visions, fetch lands, remands, and spell pierces I was able to fill up my graveyard easily by turn 4-5 and again if need be by turn 7-8. I could see cutting down to 3 and playing a Forked Bolt main. Spell Pierce was awesome all night so I don't really want to cut it quite yet, as was spell snare in matchups where they mattered and throughout the night I only boarded out spell snare against Restore Balance combo. Every other deck had relevant 2 CMC spells to be countered and spell pierce helped me against the combo matchup and got me game 1 against Affinity. I agree on cutting Vend Clique and some amount of pierces and snares. I was planning on going down to 2 Snare, 2 Pierce, 0 Snap, 0 Clique, add in 1 Forked Bolt 3 Vapor Snag, 2 Electrolyze. If I was going to add a second explosives to the board I really think I want to splash white or green for more sideboard options and the ability to go to 3 with explosives. By playing so many fetchlands it's very easy to be able to splash for a stomping grounds, breeding pool, Hallowed Fountain, or Sacred Foundry.
In the future I might consider going with Snap + Dig over Swift + Cruise because I fell in love with dig while I was playing twin but I feel like cruise has been so good to me every time I cast it.
I think next week if I don't board teferi in any matchup I will finally take him out it just depends on how my meta adjusts, but he's been so good to me ever since the first time I put him into a modern sideboard 2 years ago.
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Hi zemanjaski,
I was the the guy who commented a few hours ago on your article about Treasure Cruise on CFB.
Since Im definitely biased towards control too, I will try out your Dig+Snapcaster version that was posted a few pages ago.
Let's see if this deck is to my liking...
UB Tezzerator
UBW Gifts
B 8Rack
Legacy
RB Goblins
To this point, the following cards seem integral:
1. Thought Scour- To become the more efficient Treasure Cruise deck. Often the mirror comes down to who gets to cruise 1st and more often. This enables both.
2. Spell Snare- Pyromancer is the best threat if it sticks. Also counters Snappy and any 2 CMC permission. In the burn matchup is king vs. a bevy of spells.
3. Electrickery- In the SB, has been the best card in the mirror. Deserving of 2 spots.
4. Dragon's Claw- Our best card vs. burn. 3-4 in the board is correct.
My question is what else?
Spell pierce seems fine against burn. Seems eh against the mirror.
Remand seems ok against the mirror. Eh against burn.
Anyone have some piece of tech that they have been sitting on, and are ready to divulge here and now for our consideration?
I've heard: Flame Jab, Darkblast, Sword of Fire and Ice, etc... Is anything sticking?
Regards,
Sword of Fire and Ice is not remotely playable.
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I'd like to try to recruit you to WUR Delver Galerion. Splashing is easy and having access to Lightning Helix, Path to Exile, and Geist of Saint Traft (as well as sideboard cards like Timely Reinforcements), is really good. It also is much better at playing both the aggro and control roles than Delver is, due to having hard to answer threats, lifegain, and removal that hits large creatures. Having stronger spells also works much better with Snapcaster Mage. Please, try it out.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
I was having the same thoughts about a more controlish build, and then I decided to splash white on my deck. After that the splash just started to get bigger and bigger, and now I play UWR Delver with 0 regrets. It's exactly the deck I was looking for, it feels perfect to play with it, and I have so many new options I don't even know where to start. I was really unhappy with what happened to UR Delver with the Swiftspear, and I agree with Valanarch that you really should try UWR out.
Thanks guys. Tonight I may do a bit of testing to see how it goes
Right now I'm on the same page as zemanjaski and a few others with dig through time and snapcaster mage and I'm having tons of fun with it. The deck is slower (but can still kill on turn 4 if left unchecked), has a better midgame/endgame and plays more controllish. DTT in this deck is more powerful then treasure cruise in my opinion. It's nuts and fun to play and very simular to my pre-Khans deck. Apart from your 1 mana cantrips and a few creatures the whole deck operates at instant speed which makes it unpredictable and suitable for people who like psychological warfare.
Hopefully I'll be able to get a few more games in this week and see how it deals with different decks.
I would also like to address another card that's getting very popular with the new meta: chalice of the void. I'm curious to hear if you run into it as well, how often and how do you deal with it? When people play it on x=1 it's very hard to beat. The best way to deal with it is to counter it of course, but what do you do when it does land? Personally, I currently play 1 shattering spree in the SB, but I have yet to draw/dig it with an active chalice in play.
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I play 3 Spell Snares, and while they are mainly for Goyfs, a Chalice for 1 is also a CC of 2. You could also have a shattering spree in the sideboard, as the replicate copies arent cast and thus arent affected by Chalice of the Void. (I learned that interaction with Pyromancers Ascension).
In my opinon yes. This is still a free spell and a cantrip for pyromancer. It puts cards in the yard for delve. It's free to flashback with snapcaster if you want to see more cards and you only want to spend 2 mana to do so.
Additionally, you don't have to play the probe on turn 1. you can wait until you set up a draw with Serum Visions, then draw the scryed card the same turn. Or you can wait until it's turn 3 and you want to see what your UR (possibly twin) opponent is up to. Waiting longer to fire off these spells in a control deck makes sense to me, as it gives you the best lines of play when they matter. I can't imagine a deck like his that wouldn't want probe. The information is really important to deciding what you want to scry early (if you choose to play it early), and it has so much upside that I can't really see an argument not to play it
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Here's something to think about when you're considering whether to cast Gitaxian Probe: "Will what I see in my opponent's hand affect how I will act until my next turn?"
If the answer is no and there's no immediate benefit to drawing a card or putting a card in the graveyard then don't cast the Probe.
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My Deck at the time was
3x Misty Rainforest
3x Scalding Tarn
1x Flooded Strand
1x Bloodstained Mire
1x Wooded Foothills
4x Steam Vents
1x Sulfur Falls
4x Island
1x Mountain
Creature: 15
4x Delver of Secrets
4x Monastery Swiftspear
4x Young Pyromancer
2x Snapcaster Mage
1x Vendillion Clique
4x Lightning Bolt
3x Spell Pierce
3x Spell Snare
4x Remand
Sorcery: 12
4x Gitaxian Probe
4x Treasure Cruise
4x Serum Visions
1x Electrickery
2x Dispel
1x Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir
1x Batterskull
2x Counter Flux
1x Grafdigger's Cage
2x Dragon's Claw
2x Combust
1x Engineered Explosives
1x Spellskite
1x Keranos, God of Storms
The sideboard is mostly remnants from UR Twin which I took apart to build this so it definitely wasn't tuned or optimized at all yet. Against Affinity I won game 1 but lost game 2 and 3 because I didn't have any artifact hate in my sideboard and I feel like I could have easily won if my sideboard was properly prepared. Decks I saw in the room when I was making last minute adjustments was 1x Scapeshift 4x Burn 1x Restore Balance 1x Soul Sisters 3x Affinity 1x Twin 1x NinjaBearDelver 2x Ascendancy Combo 2x Melira Pod. AFAIK I was the only UR Delver deck in the room.
For my first time playing through the deck (hadn't even tested it yet) I was fairly impressed but I feel like I just wasn't being proactive enough and I had terrible luck with my Delvers flipping (taking up to 4 turns to flip even after Serum Visioning to dump to lands to the bottom) Snapcaster Mage was pretty decent still but I feel like I'd change out the 2 Mages and Clique for 3 Vapor Snags in the future. I also am really tempted to add a stomping grounds in the deck over the Sulfur Falls to have access to side board ancient grudge similar to what the UR twin decks do specifically for the affinity mathcup. I also saw a few Chalices running around in peoples side boards to play against burn and Jeskai combo.
As for changes to my sideboard I definitely want to drop batterskull, Kerano, and possibly Teferi (I still love Teferi against scapeshift, UWR control which I think will start appearing soon, the delver mirror, blue decks in general, and he's ridiculously good against restore balance combo though getting to 5 lands can be a challenge). I'm debating on the counterfluxes still they may be better served as negates or annuls or something better served for the meta that is cheaper to cast. Combust feels fine as people were talking about wanting to build UR Delver and I know that there at least 1-3 twin players that show up consistently. I'm not sure if I want to go up on Dragon's Claws but I know a lot of people are playing or building burn because it's so cheap. Everything else I think can be changed to reflect my meta but I'm not exactly sure. I have access to a lot of sideboard cards. I think for next week I'm going to try
1x Electrickery
2x Dispel
1x Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir
2x Dragon's Claw
2x Combust
2x Negate
2x Eidolon of the Great Revels
2x Ancient Grudge
1x Shatterstorm
I feel like I may be a bit overzealous on the artifact hate but the fact that I can hit chalice's, affinity stuff, kill restore balance's borderposts, pods, etc... is worth it. It might be better to splash a little white for wear//tear instead for more hedging against Jeskai combo, twin, or to take out random enchantments, opposing eidolons, etc... but I'm not completely sure. I feel that 2 for 1ing people on grudge and shatterstorm is going to be a bigger blow out. I definitely need to play the deck more and see how matchups play out more before I completely decide. But I really did enjoy the 2 grudges out of the side for twin but I understand the decks play very differently.
-2 Spell Pierce, +2 Burst Lightning/Pillar of Flame/Forked Bolt, -1 Vendilion Clique, -1 Treasure Cruise, +2 Electrolyze. Add another Engineered Explosives on the sideboard for Bogle and Affinity, cutting the Teferi (terrible in the aggro/tempo meta right now), and you should be good to go.
I think you need some number of Thought Scour to make effective use of Treasure Cruise, but maybe that's just me. I still prefer the Dig Through Time Snapcaster ('Nap Time) build over the Monastery Swiftspear Treasure Cruise (T Swift) build especially you're going to be playing counters like Spell Pierce, Spell Snare, and Remand. That being said, I personally prefer to be on the control side of the spectrum for Tempo builds, and that differs from person to person.
In the future I might consider going with Snap + Dig over Swift + Cruise because I fell in love with dig while I was playing twin but I feel like cruise has been so good to me every time I cast it.
I think next week if I don't board teferi in any matchup I will finally take him out it just depends on how my meta adjusts, but he's been so good to me ever since the first time I put him into a modern sideboard 2 years ago.