with infect in modern, turn 3 or 4 is the game changing turn.
i assume the card in question is some delve pump spell. if you think it's the best card for the deck feel free to put it in your deck and brew with it.
but generally it is too situational for infect in my opinion. we all have been around the block long enough to know what is game breaking or not. a turn 5/6 situational pump isn't it.
the weakest card in infect hands down is might of old krosa. if they print a better +4/+4 enabler for the deck we won't even run it. actually what most modern infect players are waiting for is invigorate to replace the krosa. i mean some people are running giant growth in that position, its that dire.
second up is rancor, which screams 2-for-1 that deck that requires a 1/1 NOW.
i know there are A LOT of newer players who picked up this deck and get excited whenever they see something that is green, one or 2 cmc situational and says +X/+x until end of turn
but it's not what we're looking for.
Not sure I agree with you here 100%. In my experience, Jund runs rampant. That deck is filled to the brim with removal of different sizes, ranging from Lightning Bolt to Abrupt Decay to Liliana of the Veil. Hell, they splash white for Lingering SOuls to block and Path to Exile as extra removal. For me, this means I want my deck to also work in the late game. Getting to +6 my creature is a way of means to still be able to dish out 10 poison. Not sure if this is the form in which I want to have a fighting chance in the late game, but for me it seems like a card that would require some testing.
Infect is all about speed, if u can't win by turn 5,u already lost.
That is not my experience with the deck. Sure, it becomes a lot harder the longer the game progresses, but to say you auto-lose after turn 5 is a bit too harsh imo. Besides, turn 5, I have plenty to delve between fetches, pumps and destroyed creatures.
tron is an easy matchup but experienced tron players can blow you out if you don't sideboard correctly.
i like to remove pump spells that can be redirected, so keep everything on "you control" like ranger's guile. side out the rancor (nothing to trample over) bring in the pithing needles to shut off karn and skite.
bring in the viridian corrupters, the nature's claim.
you want to deal as much poison as you can before they stick a turn 3 karn or a turn 3 wurmcoil
then from there you can start evading.
best trick is to let them karn an inkmoth, tap inkmoth float 1, animate inkmoth ranger's guile targeting inkmoth in response to a karn exile. it's basically timewalking them.
best build for tron is blue/green
your main threats are going to be blighted agent and inkmoth.
they'll chump wurmcoil over and over which is 3 big ass pain in the ass blockers as your hand goes down.
keep in mind it only takes maybe 2 turns to wi once a karn hits the table, they fetch out emurakul, they target themselves exiling emurakul from their hand, then restart the game and you lose
Well if the best build against tron is UG then I'll go with that color choice.
So this is a sample decklist only against tron, would this be the perfect build?
Afaik they mostly run Pyroclasm, but they might run more in the side, haven't seen a lot of tron for quite a while. Concerning that, Guile wouldn't do you much good I'm afraid.
Afaik they mostly run Pyroclasm, but they might run more in the side, haven't seen a lot of tron for quite a while. Concerning that, Guile wouldn't do you much good I'm afraid.
is that the only burn that they really run though...well that and maybe Oblivion Stone, but besides that infect can usually get out quicker than Tron right?
ranger's guile in for vines of vastwood (vines can be skite'd) kicker doesn't do much when you're racing tron lands and karn
you ranger's guile the karn target shall they decide to target inkmoth.
rancor out, 2 pithing needle or 4 nature's claim in.
turn 2 you want them at 8 or 9 poison.
once the karn hits the table you want to have so many threats they can't block all of them
but you have to watch the clasm and the stone.
took me like 6 months to figure out exactly how to play RGtron (great player)
when he lends the deck out to so-so players who are meh (you know which ones aren't good in your store) its hands down don't even have to think about the game win
Im a RG tron player, i have 4 pyroclasm and 4 oblivion stone main.
in sideboard i have 1 firespout.
some players use 1 all is dust in the place of 1 pyroclasm.
btw, turn 4 oblivion stone is very likely (at least 8 mana to play and crack it)
Good to know thanks! so do you think with that deck list I posted is essential against rG tron or would you add/remove anything?
otherwise infect should get in there by turn 3, or turn 4 at the latest, if you have a Pyroclasm in hand.
Im a RG tron player, i have 4 pyroclasm and 4 oblivion stone main.
in sideboard i have 1 firespout.
some players use 1 all is dust in the place of 1 pyroclasm.
btw, turn 4 oblivion stone is very likely (at least 8 mana to play and crack it)
Good to know thanks! so do you think with that deck list I posted is essential against rG tron or would you add/remove anything?
otherwise infect should get in there by turn 3, or turn 4 at the latest, if you have a Pyroclasm in hand.
The viridian corrupters are good, i play 8 "eggs" which produce colored mana. as for the rest, infect just needs to be faster, turn 3/4 Wurmcoil engine/Karn Liberated or O-stone is very common. once one of those hit the table infect starts to get behind. So inkmoth nexus is a must i think, although most tron players have a ghost quarter in their deck, this is delaying them at least, so you have time to infect them some more
So against
Yea, I'm thinking of running 3 Viridian Corrupters or should he be a 4-of? So you play artifacts that produce mana...like Mossfire Egg??
So then I believe 4 Inkmoth Nexus is a must then...so in playing Infect, in your experience what would you say is the average turn win for this deck? 3? 4? and against rG Tron I'm assuming its a must by turn 3
If you already have 12 Infect creatures main (which you should), I wouldn't bring in Corrupter from the SB. Despite all the potential targets, it actually hurts you, because it makes your deck slower.
If you're playing Revoker or Needle against some other decks, it's fine to bring them in. I wouldn't SB Needle specifically for Tron, your deck is already favored against them.
Needle is better because it can't be killed by creature removal. I know Revoker stops mana abilities (so you might be thinking of naming an egg), but Tron has 2 different eggs so they can still cast Pyroclasm through a Revoker.
If you already have 12 Infect creatures main (which you should), I wouldn't bring in Corrupter from the SB. Despite all the potential targets, it actually hurts you, because it makes your deck slower.
If you're playing Revoker or Needle against some other decks, it's fine to bring them in. I wouldn't SB Needle specifically for Tron, your deck is already favored against them.
Needle is better because it can't be killed by creature removal. I know Revoker stops mana abilities (so you might be thinking of naming an egg), but Tron has 2 different eggs so they can still cast Pyroclasm through a Revoker.
If you already have 12 Infect creatures main (which you should), I wouldn't bring in Corrupter from the SB. Despite all the potential targets, it actually hurts you, because it makes your deck slower.
If you're playing Revoker or Needle against some other decks, it's fine to bring them in. I wouldn't SB Needle specifically for Tron, your deck is already favored against them.
Needle is better because it can't be killed by creature removal. I know Revoker stops mana abilities (so you might be thinking of naming an egg), but Tron has 2 different eggs so they can still cast Pyroclasm through a Revoker.
Gotcha, and yea it's pretty hard to get a Pithing Needle removed unless you have a specific card that gets rid of it, unlike Revoker...
So even if I'm playing the UG version don't include Viridian?
If you already have 12 Infect creatures main (which you should), I wouldn't bring in Corrupter from the SB. Despite all the potential targets, it actually hurts you, because it makes your deck slower.
If you're playing Revoker or Needle against some other decks, it's fine to bring them in. I wouldn't SB Needle specifically for Tron, your deck is already favored against them.
Needle is better because it can't be killed by creature removal. I know Revoker stops mana abilities (so you might be thinking of naming an egg), but Tron has 2 different eggs so they can still cast Pyroclasm through a Revoker.
If you already have 12 Infect creatures main (which you should), I wouldn't bring in Corrupter from the SB. Despite all the potential targets, it actually hurts you, because it makes your deck slower.
If you're playing Revoker or Needle against some other decks, it's fine to bring them in. I wouldn't SB Needle specifically for Tron, your deck is already favored against them.
Needle is better because it can't be killed by creature removal. I know Revoker stops mana abilities (so you might be thinking of naming an egg), but Tron has 2 different eggs so they can still cast Pyroclasm through a Revoker.
Gotcha, and yea it's pretty hard to get a Pithing Needle removed unless you have a specific card that gets rid of it, unlike Revoker...
So even if I'm playing the UG version don't include Viridian?
oblivion stone still hits pithing needle.
pithing needle is to name a karn.
viridian is too slow
muligan aggressively.
it sounds like you're playing a good tron player and are getting advice from so-so tron players (no offense to anyone here) player skill and ability to see answers and not misplay actually do matter.
I test(ed) regularly against a RG tron player who recently used it to qualify for the Pro Tour.
The view from the R/G tron side:
1) They may have 1-2 chalice of the void, which also helps against burn. Also, expect players to tweak their sideboards in small local metas.
2) They board out O-stone and board in things like nature's claim and combust and spellskite.
3) They will keep high risk high reward hands since they are such huge underdogs.
The view from the U/G infect side:
1) Since the matchup is so good, you want to avoid losing to hate cards like spellskite and chalice if possible
2) You want to maximize consistency, i.e. maximimize how many infect creatures you have.
3) Play around the spells they could have and sequence properly. This especially applies to leaving up pendlehaven vs pyroclasm, deciding to play around chalice/spellskite by playing your spells early, and holding up vines to beat karn.
4) Mulligan fairly aggressively. You can easily win on a 5 card hand, and easily lose on a 6 card hand that doesnt do anything for 2 turns.
Ok, so I recently graduated from college and the boredom is immense. So I decided to get back into magic after a number of years and have acquired all my younger brothers cards. He had quite a few of cards, but he gave away his tournament decks to his friends for actual money. So what I had to work with was all just loose cards. I feel like my strongest option for a viable deck with these was a poison control style deck, but after reading up on other people's ideas in the modern meta my deck looks quite different. The idea was to have as many variable purpose cards as possible (defensively and offensively) while keeping mana costs low. I have yet to go anywhere to play test it and I'd like some feedback first. So without further ado, here's what I made with what I had to work with.
I test(ed) regularly against a RG tron player who recently used it to qualify for the Pro Tour.
The view from the R/G tron side:
1) They may have 1-2 chalice of the void, which also helps against burn. Also, expect players to tweak their sideboards in small local metas.
2) They board out O-stone and board in things like nature's claim and combust and spellskite.
3) They will keep high risk high reward hands since they are such huge underdogs.
The view from the U/G infect side:
1) Since the matchup is so good, you want to avoid losing to hate cards like spellskite and chalice if possible
2) You want to maximize consistency, i.e. maximimize how many infect creatures you have.
3) Play around the spells they could have and sequence properly. This especially applies to leaving up pendlehaven vs pyroclasm, deciding to play around chalice/spellskite by playing your spells early, and holding up vines to beat karn.
4) Mulligan fairly aggressively. You can easily win on a 5 card hand, and easily lose on a 6 card hand that doesnt do anything for 2 turns.
So then would a better matchup be BUG infect than UB infect?
This is the decklist I think I would use against Tron
I feel that the BUG Infect version might be better against tron especially with Plague Stinger flying over...also gives me access to Maelstrom Pulse and Thoughtseize. I can Gitaxian probe to see what he has, then Thoughtseize if necessary, plus Probe allows me to draw a card.
BUG infect is better against tron than UG infect preboard, although of course it depends on decklist. Tron doesnt punish your 3 color mana, and plague stinger is essentially a blighted agent that dodges combust (althought GR tron might not bring in combust vs BUG infect).
Honestly though, its such a good matchup... I wouldnt be particularly worried. Id spend more time playtesting and learning the deck than worrying about your absolute best matchup in the format.
BUG infect is better against tron than UG infect preboard, although of course it depends on decklist. Tron doesnt punish your 3 color mana, and plague stinger is essentially a blighted agent that dodges combust (althought GR tron might not bring in combust vs BUG infect).
Honestly though, its such a good matchup... I wouldnt be particularly worried. Id spend more time playtesting and learning the deck than worrying about your absolute best matchup in the format.
For sure...I'm going to go with BUG Infect, I like the cards in that decklist...I'll playtest it and if I don't like it I'll try UB Infect.
With the introduction of fetch lands, is the manabase for mono green going to look something like 5 forest, 8 green fetchlands, 1 pendlehaven, 4 cathedral of war, and 4 inkmoth nexus?
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Not sure I agree with you here 100%. In my experience, Jund runs rampant. That deck is filled to the brim with removal of different sizes, ranging from Lightning Bolt to Abrupt Decay to Liliana of the Veil. Hell, they splash white for Lingering SOuls to block and Path to Exile as extra removal. For me, this means I want my deck to also work in the late game. Getting to +6 my creature is a way of means to still be able to dish out 10 poison. Not sure if this is the form in which I want to have a fighting chance in the late game, but for me it seems like a card that would require some testing.
Modern : Huh?
EDH : UBGW Thrasios / Tymna Combo UBGW // GRW Mayael Big Stuff GRW // GU Edric Timewalkers GU
That is not my experience with the deck. Sure, it becomes a lot harder the longer the game progresses, but to say you auto-lose after turn 5 is a bit too harsh imo. Besides, turn 5, I have plenty to delve between fetches, pumps and destroyed creatures.
Well if the best build against tron is UG then I'll go with that color choice.
So this is a sample decklist only against tron, would this be the perfect build?
4 Blighted Agent
4 Glistener Elf
4 Noble Hierarch
3 Viridian Corrupter
Spells 24
2 Apostle's Blessing
3 Distortion Strike
3 Gitaxian Probe
4 Groundswell
3 Might of Old Krosa
4 Mutagenic Growth
4 Vines of Vastwood
1 Wild Defiance
4 Breeding Pool
4 Inkmoth Nexus
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Misty Rainforest
2 Pendelhaven
3 Forest
I'm just trying to see where the Ranger's Guile would fit it, all the other cards are so good...but tron does run removal right?
is that the only burn that they really run though...well that and maybe Oblivion Stone, but besides that infect can usually get out quicker than Tron right?
you ranger's guile the karn target shall they decide to target inkmoth.
rancor out, 2 pithing needle or 4 nature's claim in.
turn 2 you want them at 8 or 9 poison.
once the karn hits the table you want to have so many threats they can't block all of them
but you have to watch the clasm and the stone.
took me like 6 months to figure out exactly how to play RGtron (great player)
when he lends the deck out to so-so players who are meh (you know which ones aren't good in your store) its hands down don't even have to think about the game win
Good to know thanks! so do you think with that deck list I posted is essential against rG tron or would you add/remove anything?
otherwise infect should get in there by turn 3, or turn 4 at the latest, if you have a Pyroclasm in hand.
Yea, I'm thinking of running 3 Viridian Corrupters or should he be a 4-of? So you play artifacts that produce mana...like Mossfire Egg??
So then I believe 4 Inkmoth Nexus is a must then...so in playing Infect, in your experience what would you say is the average turn win for this deck? 3? 4? and against rG Tron I'm assuming its a must by turn 3
They don't produce mana, they filter it (colorless -> red for example).
| Ad Nauseam
| Infect
Big Johnny.
Gotcha, so bring in Viridian Corrupter and target one of the "Eggs"...Chromatic Star?
So what about bringing in Phyrexian Revoker/Pithing Needle against rG Tron?
If you're playing Revoker or Needle against some other decks, it's fine to bring them in. I wouldn't SB Needle specifically for Tron, your deck is already favored against them.
Needle is better because it can't be killed by creature removal. I know Revoker stops mana abilities (so you might be thinking of naming an egg), but Tron has 2 different eggs so they can still cast Pyroclasm through a Revoker.
| Ad Nauseam
| Infect
Big Johnny.
Gotcha, and yea it's pretty hard to get a Pithing Needle removed unless you have a specific card that gets rid of it, unlike Revoker...
So even if I'm playing the UG version don't include Viridian?
oblivion stone still hits pithing needle.
pithing needle is to name a karn.
viridian is too slow
muligan aggressively.
it sounds like you're playing a good tron player and are getting advice from so-so tron players (no offense to anyone here) player skill and ability to see answers and not misplay actually do matter.
infect preys upon misplays
The view from the R/G tron side:
1) They may have 1-2 chalice of the void, which also helps against burn. Also, expect players to tweak their sideboards in small local metas.
2) They board out O-stone and board in things like nature's claim and combust and spellskite.
3) They will keep high risk high reward hands since they are such huge underdogs.
The view from the U/G infect side:
1) Since the matchup is so good, you want to avoid losing to hate cards like spellskite and chalice if possible
2) You want to maximize consistency, i.e. maximimize how many infect creatures you have.
3) Play around the spells they could have and sequence properly. This especially applies to leaving up pendlehaven vs pyroclasm, deciding to play around chalice/spellskite by playing your spells early, and holding up vines to beat karn.
4) Mulligan fairly aggressively. You can easily win on a 5 card hand, and easily lose on a 6 card hand that doesnt do anything for 2 turns.
CREATURES
4x glistener elf
4x necropede
4x blighted agent
4x spellskite
SPELLS
4x noxious revival
4x mutagenic growth
4x hunger of the howlpack
3x unsummon
3x artful dodge
3x steady progress
ARTIFACTS
3x livewire lash
LANDS
1x inkmoth nexus
8x Forrest
11x island
Well, thanks in advance for any and all feedback.
So then would a better matchup be BUG infect than UB infect?
This is the decklist I think I would use against Tron
UB Infect
4 Glistener Elf
4 Blighted Agent
4 Noble Hierarch
2 Ichorclaw Myr
Spells 24
4 Vines of Vastwood
4 Groundswell
4 Might of Old Krosa
4 Wild Defiance
3 Gitaxian Probe
3 Serum Visions
2 Apostle's Blessing
4 Breeding Pool
4 Inkmoth Nexus
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Misty Rainforest
2 Pendelhaven
3 Forest
BUG Infect
4 Glistener Elf
4 Blighted Agent
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Plague Stinger
Spells 22
4 Vines of Vastwood
4 Groundswell
4 Might of Old Krosa
3 Thoughtseize
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Apostle's Blessing
2 Gitaxian Probe
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Inkmoth Nexus
2 Pendelhaven
2 Breeding Pool
2 Overgrown Tomb
2 Forest
I feel that the BUG Infect version might be better against tron especially with Plague Stinger flying over...also gives me access to Maelstrom Pulse and Thoughtseize. I can Gitaxian probe to see what he has, then Thoughtseize if necessary, plus Probe allows me to draw a card.
Honestly though, its such a good matchup... I wouldnt be particularly worried. Id spend more time playtesting and learning the deck than worrying about your absolute best matchup in the format.
For sure...I'm going to go with BUG Infect, I like the cards in that decklist...I'll playtest it and if I don't like it I'll try UB Infect.