Some nice results on the last pages!
TundraYYC, did you like the serum visions? I actually want to try to plan some more 1 cmc cantrips( serum/twisted image) so we have more turn 1 plays.
I didn't hate it. It was nice to have game 1 so I could keep some hands I may not have kept otherwise. They were always the first to get cut however for games 2 and 3. I could have very easily cut it down to 0-2 copies and ran some main board Twisted Image or Dismember or some real answers and have more board space. I think I would also try running 19 lands with the 4 serum visions next time since the greater likelihood of being able to dig. Then maybe run a single Sylvan Scrying or something to help fetch an infecter.
I've recently been testing with 8 fetches and 2 sanctums (going from 3 back to 2 pools) and have been liking it / not running into any mana awkwardness. I'm thinking about trying the full 4 sanctum with 6 fetches and cutting all the mutagenics while running all 12 of the +4/+4 spells and 3-4 Serum Visions.
It seems like this might save a significant amount of life each game, so we'll be able to play a turn or two longer against other aggressive decks. Maybe I'm wrong ... I mean the list Tom Ross advocated for right after the ban isn't even close to what he most recently sleeved up for the SCG Open, so maybe he's already done the testing.
Shapers' Sanctuary doesn't seem like it has a place in the 60, but I wouldn't totally rule it out for a SB slot even though I'm pretty skeptical of it. The reason it'll never show up in the 60 is that it has the potential to not do anything and just be card disadvantage. For it to really do much of anything useful, 2 of your creatures need to be targeted (killed) so that it provides more card advantage than simply cycling itself for G, which you could do with a few other cards anyway. Granted, that's not the absolute best analogy since there's a difference in when mana would be paid for either of those situations and when the card is drawn. I suppose there is some % that a card you draw into would be a protection spell (given most lists: ~15% / draw) and that you'd have mana open to use it upon drawing into it after the resolution of the card draw trigger but before the opponent's kill spell resolves.
I could see this being a potential replacement to Wild Defiance for those who run that in the main ... although they do completely different things. The one comes down late game, protects your dudes from damage based removal, and doubles down on your own pump spells. The other comes down mid/early-game and gives you a little more gas when your guys have a kill spell pointed their way. There are also fringe scenarios that involve this doing broken things with multiple spellskite in play.
I guess the next thing is: assuming you find this card worthy of inclusion, what do you take out? I could see an argument for removing serum visions if you're playing that already. It is the same cmc, but instead of instant card draw + filtering it gives delayed card draw with potential for more card draw if your opponent is on targeted removal.
I may proxy a couple of these in my sideboard and see if I ever want to bring them in, but my immediate take on this card is: skeptical with a dash of hopeful.
I think it would be interesting. Ppl using a kill spell then you using a protection spell then they having to use another kill spell is a fair tempo gain.
It can get you another protection spell or push you into another infector or just filter through cards to something that you need.
Yeah, being 4 mana to use probably makes it close to unplayable, but being the first card that could be usable in our deck in quite a while makes me want to try it at least. I have to imagine that the life loss is going to be more relevant that the ocassional 4 mana pump on land, but who knows...
Let´s hope there´s something good in the full spoiler tomorrow
Wondering if livewire lash has been a card that has been tested for UG in the new shadow meta?
Pumps their Death's Shadow and leaves us struggling to deal that last few normal damage with something like Dryad Arbor. Doesn't seem that effective.
I have been having pretty good success lately with this maindeck. The side is still evolving, but I'm trying to have an answer to everything is this meta.
Hmm. I misread. It's any spell, not just your opponent's too. Still kinda of slow and man intensive, if there was anyway to abuse it besides existing synergy maybe.
I wonder if with the new card Claim // Fame BG infect could be tried again. I never liked BG and I think is much worse than classic UG, but that card could be really good. Also the "free" pump spell is nice( a stomping ground in the manabase could do the trick, and opens the possibility of ancient grudge).
Since blighted agent is so busted I thought of splashing for Claim // Fame in UG, but seems way too complicated in an already bad manabase.
Hey all, returning Infect player here. I've been thinking about the current shortcomings to the deck and came to the following conclusions about the deck's current weaknesses:
1. Poor T1 and T2 plays
2. Low creature count in a discard and removal-heavy format
Let's address each in turn. You're probably thinking, well, what the heck, we have Glistener Elf, Noble Hierarch, and Blighted Agent to run out there early for quick kills! The problem is we do not have the information we used to have (Gitaxian Probe) to know whether it is safe to drop a creature right away or not, and by tapping out to play one of these creatures early you're looking to get it removed ASAP with the bevy of 1-drop removal, including the dreaded Fatal Push.
Our starting hands have also gotten weaker because we run so few creatures (nothing new, of course), so if our opponent starts out with a T1 discard, we may very well lose our only Infect creature (from my experience you have 1, 2 creatures at most) and then you are left scrambling to find one.
My solution? Serum Visions. I used to not like running the card because Probe gave us the information we needed, and we didn't need to worry about getting Pushed T1. But now I think the far superior play is a T1 Serum Visions or Noble Hierarch, followed by a T2 or T3 creature with protection. Heck, if you have a hand with Glistener Elf and Serum Visions you can even run the Elf out there blindly, even if it gets removed, because Visions digs you 3 cards deep to find another one.
So this begs the question, why aren't more people running Serum Visions? It makes the deck a bit slower, yes, but it also digs for answers and gives you something to do on turns where you're otherwise running your Infect creature out there to get slaughtered.
What about Oath of Nissa ?
It can't help find pump spells but can dig deeper for creatures or Inkmoth Nexus.
There is also Commune with Nature which digs deeper for creatures but doesn't get lands.
I'd think Serum Visions is superior to either of those options, yes? You don't get a targeted card immediately but it sets up your next turn and beyond, hopefully. Oath of Nissa is a nice card (I use it in Saheeli Evolution) but it seems way too likely to donk out with 26 spells. And as you pointed out, Commune with Nature doesn't get lands, which is relevant in a deck that likes Pendelhaven and Inkmoth Nexus. If you're looking for a diggable answer right away, Sleight of Hand is probably superior as it allows you to hit spells, albeit with a slightly less effective dig.
I have been playing 2-3 serum visions for a while, actually. I just wanted to have more turn 1 plays because for a deck that tries to win on the early turns of the game we only had 8 plays on turn 1. It also helps fueling become inmense(that is much harder to cast now)
I´m not sure if serum visions is the correct cantrip because the scry 2 is quite akward sometimes with all the feches we play, but probably is the best anyway.
Oath of nissa unfortunately does not dig you to pump spells and does not put a card on the graveyard for BI.
Hey all! Been a while since I played Infect lately, mostly because of Fatal Push being a real issue with just about every creature in our deck. In my list, I have two sideboard Spellskite's and have been considering adding one to the mainboard because for more insurance for my infectors. what does everyone else think about this as well?
Would it be worth splashing black (a single overgrown tomb), and running 4x Plague Stinger? Makes up for the lack of creatures. Check my list and give me your thoughts:
Would it be worth splashing black (a single overgrown tomb), and running 4x Plague Stinger? Makes up for the lack of creatures. Check my list and give me your thoughts:
I was thinking maybe cut 1 plague stinger for a Twisted Image? Or cut 1 Plague Stinger + 1 Spell Pierce for +2 Groundswell? I don't know.
Thoughts?
I've thought about adding Plague Stinger as an option for Infectors on the board. Not too many decks as of right now (honestly depends on one's own local meta) can deal with flyers. I'd say that running 1 Overgrown Tomb for sure is key but honestly 2 won't be bad. Our mana dork, Noble Hierarch, unfortunately doesn't produce black mana and if someone Ghost Quarters that land while we have multiple Plague Stingers in hand my come back and haunt us.
TundraYYC, did you like the serum visions? I actually want to try to plan some more 1 cmc cantrips( serum/twisted image) so we have more turn 1 plays.
In Tom's SCG article right when the ban happened, he proposed a manabase:
And his main deck was using fewer Mutagenic Growths and fewer Become Immenses since you wouldn't have as much in the graveyard.
I've been playing with a list very similar to what Scharfestahl posted a couple weeks ago: http://i.imgur.com/HjzmjWr.png but I just prefer Slip Through Space over Distortion Strike.
I've recently been testing with 8 fetches and 2 sanctums (going from 3 back to 2 pools) and have been liking it / not running into any mana awkwardness. I'm thinking about trying the full 4 sanctum with 6 fetches and cutting all the mutagenics while running all 12 of the +4/+4 spells and 3-4 Serum Visions.
It seems like this might save a significant amount of life each game, so we'll be able to play a turn or two longer against other aggressive decks. Maybe I'm wrong ... I mean the list Tom Ross advocated for right after the ban isn't even close to what he most recently sleeved up for the SCG Open, so maybe he's already done the testing.
Pioneer: Spirits
EDH: Ur-Dragon + Lord Windgrace + Arixmethes + Atla Palani + Kalamax
"Shapers Sanctuary"
G:
Enchantment:
"Whenever a creature you control becomes the target of a spell of ability an opponent controls, draw a card."
Im not sure where it would fit in the 75 at this moment but getting a draw when ppl want to kill your stuff is pretty good.
Thoughts, suggestions, comments ?
I could see this being a potential replacement to Wild Defiance for those who run that in the main ... although they do completely different things. The one comes down late game, protects your dudes from damage based removal, and doubles down on your own pump spells. The other comes down mid/early-game and gives you a little more gas when your guys have a kill spell pointed their way. There are also fringe scenarios that involve this doing broken things with multiple spellskite in play.
I guess the next thing is: assuming you find this card worthy of inclusion, what do you take out? I could see an argument for removing serum visions if you're playing that already. It is the same cmc, but instead of instant card draw + filtering it gives delayed card draw with potential for more card draw if your opponent is on targeted removal.
I may proxy a couple of these in my sideboard and see if I ever want to bring them in, but my immediate take on this card is: skeptical with a dash of hopeful.
Pioneer: Spirits
EDH: Ur-Dragon + Lord Windgrace + Arixmethes + Atla Palani + Kalamax
It can get you another protection spell or push you into another infector or just filter through cards to something that you need.
Certainly worth testing.
http://mythicspoiler.com/hou/cards/solemnity.html
Yeah, being 4 mana to use probably makes it close to unplayable, but being the first card that could be usable in our deck in quite a while makes me want to try it at least. I have to imagine that the life loss is going to be more relevant that the ocassional 4 mana pump on land, but who knows...
Let´s hope there´s something good in the full spoiler tomorrow
Pumps their Death's Shadow and leaves us struggling to deal that last few normal damage with something like Dryad Arbor. Doesn't seem that effective.
I have been having pretty good success lately with this maindeck. The side is still evolving, but I'm trying to have an answer to everything is this meta.
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Blighted Agent
1 Viridian Corrupter
4 Blossoming Defense
2 Distortion Strike
4 Mutagenic Growth
4 Might of Old Krosa
4 Spell Pierce
4 Vines of Vastwood
2 Apostle's Blessing
2 Become Immense
1 Dismember
3 Forest
2 Breeding Pool
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Misty Rainforest
3 Wooded Foothills
3 Windswept Heath
2 Pendelhaven
4 Inkmoth Nexus
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Nature's Claim
1 Seal of Primordium
1 Krosan Grip
1 Viridian Corrupter
2 Dispel
2 Dismember
3 Kitchen Finks
2 Hurkyl's Recall
An Infect creature equipped with it will deal damage in the form of poison counters.
It is a pretty slow card nonetheless (2 to cast and 2 to equip).
Since blighted agent is so busted I thought of splashing for Claim // Fame in UG, but seems way too complicated in an already bad manabase.
1. Poor T1 and T2 plays
2. Low creature count in a discard and removal-heavy format
Let's address each in turn. You're probably thinking, well, what the heck, we have Glistener Elf, Noble Hierarch, and Blighted Agent to run out there early for quick kills! The problem is we do not have the information we used to have (Gitaxian Probe) to know whether it is safe to drop a creature right away or not, and by tapping out to play one of these creatures early you're looking to get it removed ASAP with the bevy of 1-drop removal, including the dreaded Fatal Push.
Our starting hands have also gotten weaker because we run so few creatures (nothing new, of course), so if our opponent starts out with a T1 discard, we may very well lose our only Infect creature (from my experience you have 1, 2 creatures at most) and then you are left scrambling to find one.
My solution? Serum Visions. I used to not like running the card because Probe gave us the information we needed, and we didn't need to worry about getting Pushed T1. But now I think the far superior play is a T1 Serum Visions or Noble Hierarch, followed by a T2 or T3 creature with protection. Heck, if you have a hand with Glistener Elf and Serum Visions you can even run the Elf out there blindly, even if it gets removed, because Visions digs you 3 cards deep to find another one.
So this begs the question, why aren't more people running Serum Visions? It makes the deck a bit slower, yes, but it also digs for answers and gives you something to do on turns where you're otherwise running your Infect creature out there to get slaughtered.
It can't help find pump spells but can dig deeper for creatures or Inkmoth Nexus.
There is also Commune with Nature which digs deeper for creatures but doesn't get lands.
I'd think Serum Visions is superior to either of those options, yes? You don't get a targeted card immediately but it sets up your next turn and beyond, hopefully. Oath of Nissa is a nice card (I use it in Saheeli Evolution) but it seems way too likely to donk out with 26 spells. And as you pointed out, Commune with Nature doesn't get lands, which is relevant in a deck that likes Pendelhaven and Inkmoth Nexus. If you're looking for a diggable answer right away, Sleight of Hand is probably superior as it allows you to hit spells, albeit with a slightly less effective dig.
I´m not sure if serum visions is the correct cantrip because the scry 2 is quite akward sometimes with all the feches we play, but probably is the best anyway.
Oath of nissa unfortunately does not dig you to pump spells and does not put a card on the graveyard for BI.
4x Blighted Agent
4x Glistener Elf
4x Noble Hierarch
4x Plague Stinger
1x Viridian Corrupter
Instant/Sorcery (22)
2x Become Immense
4x Blossoming Defense
1x Dismember
4x Might of Old Krosa
4x Mutagenic Growth
2x Spell Pierce
4x Vines of Vastwood
1x Distortion Strike
1x Rancor
Land (20)
2x Breeding Pool
1x Dryad Arbor
2x Forest
4x Inkmoth Nexus
1x Overgrown Tomb
2x Pendelhaven
4x Windswept Heath
4x Wooded Foothills
2x Dismember
2x Dispel
2x Grafdigger's Cage
4x Kitchen Finks
1x Nature's Claim
1x Spell Pierce
2x Spellskite
1x Viridian Corrupter
I was thinking maybe cut 1 plague stinger for a Twisted Image? Or cut 1 Plague Stinger + 1 Spell Pierce for +2 Groundswell? I don't know.
Thoughts?
RWG Burn
GW Abzan Company
I've thought about adding Plague Stinger as an option for Infectors on the board. Not too many decks as of right now (honestly depends on one's own local meta) can deal with flyers. I'd say that running 1 Overgrown Tomb for sure is key but honestly 2 won't be bad. Our mana dork, Noble Hierarch, unfortunately doesn't produce black mana and if someone Ghost Quarters that land while we have multiple Plague Stingers in hand my come back and haunt us.