Public Mod Note
(Lantern):
Infracted for Trolling. I'll be clear on this. If anyone trolls or flames about these bans they will get an immediate infraction. ~Lantern
Just run surgical, i was already running 3 in my 75 and got great results with it
Hey guys
This is a surprising thing to be banned but i don't think this is bad at all. here is why..........
We lose a card that fills out gy to fuel become immense, a can trip and secret information. One way we can go is to jam in 4x surgical extraction as zomgarcwind has said. Why would this be better ? we get the hidden info to make sure we can move forward if we need to, we get to fill our gy as git probe already did and we get to take a card possibly from their hand/gy/library.
One thing we going to get to do is look at your opponents entire library and look for any spicy cards in there that we may not be aware of.
The detraction is that we have to wait till something gets put into their gy to cast this card but that shouldn't be too hard. It also means we wouldn't have to change the amount of become immense in our mains since surgical will do the same thing as git probe. We do lose the card draw but we gain other things to balance it out.
The other way we can go with this is push up spells like spell pierce, apostle's blessing, dispel to a playset or 3 of. It means we would run more protection and be able to control the removal in the format against us.
Like i said. imho it may make this deck stronger just in different areas.
Just when I sold my other deck to focus on Infect, then this happened. I'm seriously getting thrown around by MTG whenever i'm playing a deck that has anything U. 1st was Treasure Cruise, 2nd was Twin and now this. @_@
Just when I sold my other deck to focus on Infect, then this happened. I'm seriously getting thrown around by MTG whenever i'm playing a deck that has anything U. 1st was Treasure Cruise, 2nd was Twin and now this. @_@
If you cut down to 2 become immense, the deck will no longer need as many fetches. Maybe now we can run 3-4 botanical sanctum to keep the life loss down. The ease of painless blue sources could make running serum visions/sleight more appealing.
1)5 the draw made the card.
2)2
3a)4
3b)No
3c)I run 9 fetch, 3 breeding pool, 2 forest, 2 pendelhaven, 4 inkmoth
4)No
5)4 surgical extraction. This hits non basic lands and any card I will learn to hate more.
6)I am going to run one Sylvan scrying for now.
1) How badly do you feel Gitaxian Probe ban hurt us(from 0 being not at all, to 10 meaning the deck is now unplayable)
2) How many Become Immense should we be down to from now on? (1/2/3/4)
3a) Will you be looking to run some Groundswell ? If yes, how many?(No/1/2/3/4)
3b) If you will run some Groundswell, do you want us to up our lands count so that the landfall will be triggering more often? (Y/N)
3c) What type of lands will you add in (Forest/Fetchland/Dryad Arbor)
4) Will you be looking to run some Serum Visions ? If yes, how many?(No/1/2/3/4)
5) Will you be looking to run an extra infecter in the MB, such as Viridian Corrupter? (Y/N)
6) Other observation you have to make. Mishra's Bauble or something else that you'd like to try out?
1.) A combination of probe being gone, to midrange being expanded and buffed with Fatal Push, I'm saying we got hurt about a 4. Definitely enough to drop the prominence of the deck significantly, possibly enough to make us T2 but we will see in time how many people still play the deck (which is what tiers are based off).
2.) 3 Become Immense atm
3a.) I won't be LOOKING to run Groundswell, but with 4 extra mandatory cards added to the deck, at least one may just have to be pump to keep up chances of drawing that G for +4/+4 that we need to close out so many games. Uncertain as of yet, but possibly 1.
3b.) Even if I don't run Groundswell, we need to be at 20 lands minimum now anyway. Any person with experience with the deck will tell you how many 1/0 land hands were keepable because of Probe.
4.) I will almost definitely not be running Visions. Probe was good because it was free information and it replaced itself for free, including it in the deck meant better chance of drawing the cards you want (56 card deck and all that). Visions costs mana, and is never the card I want. I'll simply be divvy'ing up extra slots between the things I need the most of.
5.) I will be LOOKING for it, because ideally we would be able to alleviate the lower chance of drawing a creature (bigger deck) by just adding another creature, but at the moment options are scarce, we already were probably wanting another Infector as is. Already have one corrupter MD and I don't want to double down on 3 drops. So ideally yes, practically though with options available atm - probably not, and I don't think they are going to print many or any more fast Infectors worth their cost.
6.) Pact of Negation is SO close to being the perfect replacement, but unfortunately most interaction comes during your opponent's turn before you can untap and/or draw into protection. It'd be great when we are using Inkmoth, or if we have multiple creatures and our opponent is waiting to fry the one you pump... so it's worth considering. it'll be great when it works I guess. I won't be wasting a single draw on a card that gets me very little other than info (surgical) or that costs mana to replace itself and slows the deck down (Visions, Sleight of Hand). I won't be running Bauble's and basically having 4x extra chances of a dead draw no matter when I'm trying to end no matter what I'm looking for that turn, I won't be running Street Wraith because the life cost isn't justifiable. I'm also not going to switch to GB Infect (even though its cheap swap) because I'm committed to UG and prefer the way it plays and the options available. So, rather than trying to replace Probe with something that won't be as good, it might be best to just accept that it's gone, and fill the gaps with pieces that cover the percentage chances I lost.
It's the best suggestion I've seen so far, instant speed means you can hold up mana for protection and only cast it when they tap out, and probably lets you cast Become Immense even EASIER than before, and without the life cost. Also lets you burn away any Scry stacks your opponent sets up as a bonus, but that's probably not so relevant. This will be a consideration. Anyone know any other interactions Thought Scour has?
Those cards seem better in the SB, in the maindeck I would cut 2x more cards and run: 4x Blossoming Defense and 4x Mutagenic Growth
(how can there be an "Infect" deck without it as long as it is legal ?)
Btw,
With the printing of Fatal Push the value of Phyrexian Crusader seems to go down since now it can be killed by a 1-mana removal spell
(while previously it avoided L.Bolt and Path and mostly only got hit by Abrupt Decay/Dismember).
I like the idea of trying Thought Scour and going full Become Immense...With Thought Scour main deck Postmortem Lunge also becomes better, which is the reason for playing it as a pseudo 13th creature.
There is also this nice synergy where you can pay 2 Life for reviving Dryad Arbor and use it as Lotus Petal (1 net Mana out of nothing). Getting Drayd Arbor into the grave is also more easy with Thought Scour.
@Moris2611 - I've been playing BG Infect since October, currently 23-24-1 in my matches. Here's where my list differs and why.
1. You don't need 6 pieces of removal MB. I run 3xAbrupt Decay and 1xFatal Push with 1 more AB and 2 more FP in the Side. I'm not running Dismember any more. There's not much that FP misses that Dismember actually answered. Drowner of Hope, Reality Smasher, Tasigur, the Golden Fang and Gurmag Angler were all I could think of.
2. The mana base looks very similar to mine, except I run an Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth instead of an 8th Fetch. Being able to tap fetches and Inkmoths for B has been very useful!! As BG Infect is slightly slower AND runs more creatures than UB, the Dryad Arbor is usually unnecessary.
3. Inquisition of Kozilek seems like a good idea, but actually slows your main game plan down - winning through quick pump and protection. I cut hand disruption entirely from my list, Main AND side. Its sorcery speed where often you'll want an Instant either to kill earlier or to protect from removal - I run 4x Vines of Vastwood, 3xBlossoming Defense, then 3xBecome Immense, 3xMutagenic Growth and 4xMight of Old Krosa.
4. The Sideboard looks slow. Carrion Call seemed like a good idea but tapping out for 4 is not what Infect wants to be doing - something has gone seriously wrong if that's the case!! For Burn you want 2 or more Kitchen Finks and maybe 1 or 2 Pulse of Murasa. No need for Vampiric Link if you can just get rid of their Eidolon of the Great Revel for B. I've found 2xSurgical Extraction to be better than Nihil Spellbomb (using the phyrexian mana whilst its not banned!!), and may consider a Ravenous Trap if Dredge doesn't fully go away. I'm also running a Grafdigger's Cage as it has multiple uses. I run 2xPithing Needle for troublesome planeswalkers and Lightning Storm in Ad Nauseam. I'd drop a Nature's Claim for a 4th AB as it covers more things and still removes any Affinity threat apart from their lands.
@D90Dennis14 - Yes Rancor is worth it as Plague Stinger getting blocked by a Birds of Paradise feels bad... As for Phyrexian Crusader, the decks that are likely to run FP (Abzan/Jund) already had things like Abrupt Decay. Equally, its 3CMC so needs "Revolt" to trigger to kill it, and you may likely have a protection spell anyway. The question is whether Terminate will drop out of favour in Grixis and Jund, in which case yes, it will be less valuable...
You're making the (false) assumption that my results reflect the capabilities of the deck. That's definitely not the case! I've only been running it for 3 months as I said, and only play Magic once a week or so - 4 games a night at FNMs and a few Saturday tournaments is hardly regular practice.
maybe you can run peek
Hey guys
This is a surprising thing to be banned but i don't think this is bad at all. here is why..........
We lose a card that fills out gy to fuel become immense, a can trip and secret information. One way we can go is to jam in 4x surgical extraction as zomgarcwind has said. Why would this be better ? we get the hidden info to make sure we can move forward if we need to, we get to fill our gy as git probe already did and we get to take a card possibly from their hand/gy/library.
One thing we going to get to do is look at your opponents entire library and look for any spicy cards in there that we may not be aware of.
The detraction is that we have to wait till something gets put into their gy to cast this card but that shouldn't be too hard. It also means we wouldn't have to change the amount of become immense in our mains since surgical will do the same thing as git probe. We do lose the card draw but we gain other things to balance it out.
The other way we can go with this is push up spells like spell pierce, apostle's blessing, dispel to a playset or 3 of. It means we would run more protection and be able to control the removal in the format against us.
Like i said. imho it may make this deck stronger just in different areas.
I just bought into it..
The
edit...
To slow...
URW PillowFort Stasis (costruction)
modern:
U
pauper:
UB Servitor Control
xenob8 : you know you are going to have a bad time when opponent starts with snow covered island
1) 7
2) 2
3a) 4
3b) No
3c) N/A
4) No, will probably run Sleight of Hand because of fetches
5) No
6) Maybe Surgical Extraction
RGTron
UGInfect
URStorm
WUBRAd Nauseam
BRGrishoalbrand
URGScapeshift
WBGAbzan Company
WUBRGAmulet Titan
BRGLiving End
WGBogles
Barring a disastrous ban like glistener, agent and inkmoth, this deck at worst falls into upper tier 2.
Tons going resurface, infect will come back
Death Shadow, on the other hand, is on it's way to being a bad deck or tier 3 at best with Fatal Push sealing it's fate
You guys have blossoms, vines and blessings, they don't
2)2
3a)4
3b)No
3c)I run 9 fetch, 3 breeding pool, 2 forest, 2 pendelhaven, 4 inkmoth
4)No
5)4 surgical extraction. This hits non basic lands and any card I will learn to hate more.
6)I am going to run one Sylvan scrying for now.
1.) A combination of probe being gone, to midrange being expanded and buffed with Fatal Push, I'm saying we got hurt about a 4. Definitely enough to drop the prominence of the deck significantly, possibly enough to make us T2 but we will see in time how many people still play the deck (which is what tiers are based off).
2.) 3 Become Immense atm
3a.) I won't be LOOKING to run Groundswell, but with 4 extra mandatory cards added to the deck, at least one may just have to be pump to keep up chances of drawing that G for +4/+4 that we need to close out so many games. Uncertain as of yet, but possibly 1.
3b.) Even if I don't run Groundswell, we need to be at 20 lands minimum now anyway. Any person with experience with the deck will tell you how many 1/0 land hands were keepable because of Probe.
4.) I will almost definitely not be running Visions. Probe was good because it was free information and it replaced itself for free, including it in the deck meant better chance of drawing the cards you want (56 card deck and all that). Visions costs mana, and is never the card I want. I'll simply be divvy'ing up extra slots between the things I need the most of.
5.) I will be LOOKING for it, because ideally we would be able to alleviate the lower chance of drawing a creature (bigger deck) by just adding another creature, but at the moment options are scarce, we already were probably wanting another Infector as is. Already have one corrupter MD and I don't want to double down on 3 drops. So ideally yes, practically though with options available atm - probably not, and I don't think they are going to print many or any more fast Infectors worth their cost.
6.) Pact of Negation is SO close to being the perfect replacement, but unfortunately most interaction comes during your opponent's turn before you can untap and/or draw into protection. It'd be great when we are using Inkmoth, or if we have multiple creatures and our opponent is waiting to fry the one you pump... so it's worth considering. it'll be great when it works I guess. I won't be wasting a single draw on a card that gets me very little other than info (surgical) or that costs mana to replace itself and slows the deck down (Visions, Sleight of Hand). I won't be running Bauble's and basically having 4x extra chances of a dead draw no matter when I'm trying to end no matter what I'm looking for that turn, I won't be running Street Wraith because the life cost isn't justifiable. I'm also not going to switch to GB Infect (even though its cheap swap) because I'm committed to UG and prefer the way it plays and the options available. So, rather than trying to replace Probe with something that won't be as good, it might be best to just accept that it's gone, and fill the gaps with pieces that cover the percentage chances I lost.
It's the best suggestion I've seen so far, instant speed means you can hold up mana for protection and only cast it when they tap out, and probably lets you cast Become Immense even EASIER than before, and without the life cost. Also lets you burn away any Scry stacks your opponent sets up as a bonus, but that's probably not so relevant. This will be a consideration. Anyone know any other interactions Thought Scour has?
Is Rancor worth it over Groundswell ?
Also since we don't realy care about our life total why not 4x Thoughtseize ?
Also, is so much removal in the maindeck really necessary ? 3x Abrupt Decay, 2x Fatal Push and 1x Dismember.
Those cards seem better in the SB, in the maindeck I would cut 2x more cards and run: 4x Blossoming Defense and 4x Mutagenic Growth
(how can there be an "Infect" deck without it as long as it is legal ?)
Btw,
With the printing of Fatal Push the value of Phyrexian Crusader seems to go down since now it can be killed by a 1-mana removal spell
(while previously it avoided L.Bolt and Path and mostly only got hit by Abrupt Decay/Dismember).
I like the idea of trying Thought Scour and going full Become Immense...With Thought Scour main deck Postmortem Lunge also becomes better, which is the reason for playing it as a pseudo 13th creature.
There is also this nice synergy where you can pay 2 Life for reviving Dryad Arbor and use it as Lotus Petal (1 net Mana out of nothing). Getting Drayd Arbor into the grave is also more easy with Thought Scour.
4x Glistener Elf
4x Blighted Agent
4x Noble Hierarch
1x Dryad Arbor
Instant (25)
3x Blossoming Defense
4x Become Immense
4x Vines of Vastwood
4x Might of Old Krosa
4x Mutagenic Growth
1x Postmortem Lunge
4x Thought Scour
1x Twisted Image
2x Distortion Strike
Land (20)
2x Pendelhaven
4x Inkmoth Nexus
2x Forest
4x Windswept Heath
4x Wooded Foothills
3x Breeding Pool
1x Verdant Catacombs
1x Dismember
2x Dispel
3x Kitchen Finks
3x Nature's Claim
2x Spell Pierce
1x Spellskite
2x Twisted Image
1x Viridian Corrupter
1. You don't need 6 pieces of removal MB. I run 3xAbrupt Decay and 1xFatal Push with 1 more AB and 2 more FP in the Side. I'm not running Dismember any more. There's not much that FP misses that Dismember actually answered. Drowner of Hope, Reality Smasher, Tasigur, the Golden Fang and Gurmag Angler were all I could think of.
2. The mana base looks very similar to mine, except I run an Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth instead of an 8th Fetch. Being able to tap fetches and Inkmoths for B has been very useful!! As BG Infect is slightly slower AND runs more creatures than UB, the Dryad Arbor is usually unnecessary.
3. Inquisition of Kozilek seems like a good idea, but actually slows your main game plan down - winning through quick pump and protection. I cut hand disruption entirely from my list, Main AND side. Its sorcery speed where often you'll want an Instant either to kill earlier or to protect from removal - I run 4x Vines of Vastwood, 3xBlossoming Defense, then 3xBecome Immense, 3xMutagenic Growth and 4xMight of Old Krosa.
4. The Sideboard looks slow. Carrion Call seemed like a good idea but tapping out for 4 is not what Infect wants to be doing - something has gone seriously wrong if that's the case!! For Burn you want 2 or more Kitchen Finks and maybe 1 or 2 Pulse of Murasa. No need for Vampiric Link if you can just get rid of their Eidolon of the Great Revel for B. I've found 2xSurgical Extraction to be better than Nihil Spellbomb (using the phyrexian mana whilst its not banned!!), and may consider a Ravenous Trap if Dredge doesn't fully go away. I'm also running a Grafdigger's Cage as it has multiple uses. I run 2xPithing Needle for troublesome planeswalkers and Lightning Storm in Ad Nauseam. I'd drop a Nature's Claim for a 4th AB as it covers more things and still removes any Affinity threat apart from their lands.
@D90Dennis14 - Yes Rancor is worth it as Plague Stinger getting blocked by a Birds of Paradise feels bad... As for Phyrexian Crusader, the decks that are likely to run FP (Abzan/Jund) already had things like Abrupt Decay. Equally, its 3CMC so needs "Revolt" to trigger to kill it, and you may likely have a protection spell anyway. The question is whether Terminate will drop out of favour in Grixis and Jund, in which case yes, it will be less valuable...
You guys have to wait until people stop playing around with push to even consider BG infect
I think you're better off tinkering with groundswells, thoughtscours, blossoms and serums before splashing black
For example, BG Infect was one of Top 4 at the latest UK RPTQ, with a slightly different build again.
http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/rptq-top-8-decklists/birmingham-2016-12-11