I'm returning to infect after some time spent away from the game. Having played some leagues in MTGO with a fairly stock list, I've gotten a feel for what most of the cards are for; however, I can't help but feel like Dismember isn't pulling its weight. Bringing it in against aggro decks, like Zoo, might be necessary, but it's so painful that I often question the plays I make. For example, it's not uncommon for me to fetch a Breeding Pool untapped to kill a mana dork or goyf while taking 7 self-inflicted points of damage. What a beating! Sometimes that's exactly what you need, but I've begun to wonder if an Unsummon effect wouldn't achieve the same goals.
With a quick search, I found some brief discussion of the idea about a year ago, but no notes on testing. Simic Charm was mentioned more recently and the card is enticingly flexible. The concern, of course, is how difficult casting it is compared to Dismember or even Unsummon.
I'm going to try shaving a Dismember from the board for a Simic Charm, run it through a few leagues, and see how it plays.
Hey everyone, my buddy is relatively new to the deck, and everytime i walk over to him at the end of the round during fnm he sided wrong imo. I want to make him a sb guide to stick in his deckbox, but have no experience myself. It's there a good one around or could you guys help me out?
To follow up on my earlier post, Simic Charm was fine sometimes but simply too expensive. I had to force myself to board it in (it never felt like it was great for a match-up) and it was sometimes too slow when I drew it. I've warmed up to Dismember quite a bit after more experience and needing cheap answers to Grim Flayers, Kiln Fiends, Thought-Knot Seers, etc. The card is painful but it's extremely efficient and seems well-positioned.
I may as well add a couple of other testing notes. I had been running 1 Unravel the Aetherin the board as an answer to Chalice of the Void on one, but Viridian Corrupter is better for that job. I'll be testing the list posted here for a little bit, even though Kitchen Finks has been such a star out of the board.
To follow up on my earlier post, Simic Charm was fine sometimes but simply too expensive. I had to force myself to board it in (it never felt like it was great for a match-up) and it was sometimes too slow when I drew it. I've warmed up to Dismember quite a bit after more experience and needing cheap answers to Grim Flayers, Kiln Fiends, Thought-Knot Seers, etc. The card is painful but it's extremely efficient and seems well-positioned.
I may as well add a couple of other testing notes. I had been running 1 Unravel the Aetherin the board as an answer to Chalice of the Void on one, but Viridian Corrupter is better for that job. I'll be testing the list posted here for a little bit, even though Kitchen Finks has been such a star out of the board.
I haven't tested BDM's list but I can't really take any list running 0 Spell Pierce seriously. It takes percentage points away from matchups like Valakut/Ad Nauseam/Goryo's/any deck running SSG, makes our Jund/Abzan matchup worse giving us fewer answers to the likes of LotV/NoSB and Anger of the Gods (which is even one of the reasons he gives for running Goyf over Finks in the SB) and generally makes us worse against the variety of Prison decks out there.
Spell Pierce is just such a versatile card that I currently actually see experienced Infect players wanting to go up to 4 in the 75 instead of wanting to go down on them. The current metagame is full of early Chalice/Blood Moon/Bridge powered out by SSG's, heck even Jund is running Blood Moon in the SB currently. He mentions that Blossoming gives him enough protection but even cards like Electrolyze/Kolaghan's Command can still 2 for 1 you, while Spell Pierce is mostly a hard counter.
He also tackles the Dredge matchup the wrong way in my opinion, he correctly identified that firstly, it is a favorable MU for us already, and secondly, that Grafdigger's is not the way to beat Dredge since they can just recur Darkblast/Stinkweed Imp which is still very troublesome for us, but the Ravenous Trap are just too narrow of a card to run as a 3-of (except if you're expecting ALOT of Dredge). The biggest problem out of Dredge are the Darkblast since otherwise we can mostly outspeed them, so my go to is Wild Defiance which completely blanks it and makes both Conflagrate/Collective Brutality much worse, while also being generally more versatile, helping against Chalice of the Void/Sudden Shock/Melira and the like.
Speaking of Dredge, this is another MU where Spell Pierce are valuable, countering both Faithless Looting/Cathartic Reunion and Conflagrate/Collective Brutality.
Goyf has also been mentioned as an option in the past and it's surely a beefier beater than Finks, although the advantage of Finks is that we often only need a body to unload our pump spells on, or at least threaten to do so, and Finks basically provides us with 2. This is especially advantageous against Jund, where the life gain/persist helps survive their early beatdowns and isolate us even more against LoTV edict effects.
I do like going up on Viridian Corrupter if you find room for them, I especially enjoy the niche use of catching Aether Vial decks off guard, since both Merfolk/Eldrazi Taxes sometimes keep greedy 1/2 landers relying on the Vial. If you want to actually run a non-creature answer for Chalice not named Wild Defiance I'd go with Naturalize over Unravel the Aether.
Hey everyone, my buddy is relatively new to the deck, and everytime i walk over to him at the end of the round during fnm he sided wrong imo. I want to make him a sb guide to stick in his deckbox, but have no experience myself. It's there a good one around or could you guys help me out?
The article, aside from a SB guide, also contains an in depth explanation of his choices and omissions, which is helpful for newer players.
The only questionable suggestion of his iirc was for the Tron MU, where he (mistakenly, I believe) prioritized boarding in Twisted Image over Nature's Claim, which just has more targets other than Spellskite.
The other questionable SB is for the Jund/Abzan MU, but like he said, this is up to preference. You can take his approach, or try to grind Jund out with Dismember/Finks/Spell Pierce. Dismember in particular can be crucial to prevent a turn 2 Dark Confidant (when on the draw) from running away with the game.
For anyone interested, here's another article of Andrew Jessup I found interesting about ethical/unethical play giving Infect plays as an example. This is a nice read because it emphasizes the importance of the bluff factor and psychological mindgames which help you gain percentage points when piloting a deck like Infect. http://www.gatheringmagic.com/andrewjessup-11072016-opening-a-dialogue-on-ethics/
Not running any spell pierce is a mistake. Also i think goyf is a bad card to be running in the sb.
Ppl run finks because it is able to exert pressure while gaining life. The gain life part is very important.
Im not a fan of finks personally i run pulse of meresa in its spot since it furthers my game plan while gaining even more life.
Ravenous trap feels like it is a little too narrow hate card. We like grafdiggers cage because it also shuts down coco decks that run melira combo. It also helps against decks running snapcasters too. Its a verstile hate card.
We are favoured against dredge so i prefer to maintain extra pressure to say do you have a answer to my gy hate with a card that hits various decks.
Viridian Corrupter is not a may. Attacking with an Inkmoth and playing Corrupter post-combat may not work out well for you. This interaction is also relevant when playing against Eldrazi Displacer. It’s also important to note that if you have an activated Inkmoth and your Corrupter is blinked by Displacer you cannot use Vines to save your Inkmoth.
If you have vines in hand you just cast it on Corrupter and it's not blinked, so there is no problem there. You can save inkmoth with vines in that scenario.
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In Lorwyn's brief evenings, the sun pauses at the horizon long enough for a certain species of violet to bloom with the fragrance of mischief.
Viridian Corrupter is not a may. Attacking with an Inkmoth and playing Corrupter post-combat may not work out well for you. This interaction is also relevant when playing against Eldrazi Displacer. It’s also important to note that if you have an activated Inkmoth and your Corrupter is blinked by Displacer you cannot use Vines to save your Inkmoth.
If you have vines in hand you just cast it on Corrupter and it's not blinked, so there is no problem there. You can save inkmoth with vines in that scenario.
Yep you're right, I pointed that out in the comments section when the article was first published, although the way he worded it he is technically correct. IF the corrupter gets blinked (and the ETB trigger is already on the stack) there is no saving the Inkmoth with Vines anymore, so you have to Vines the Corrupter preemptively knowing your Inkmoth will die otherwise, which for newer players may not be clear He should've pointed this out nonetheless or omitted the interaction completely though.
I wanna ask this, why do alot of infect lists mainboard Twisted image.
Isn't this a card you primarily bring in post sideboard to deal with cards like spellskite and to a lesser degree, noble, thing in the ice etc?
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I'm actively maintaining a comprehensive article to help explain to new cube players how some complex vintage level cards work in a cube environment. Vintage Cube Cards Explained
I'm actively maintaining a comprehensive article to help explain to new cube players how some complex vintage level cards work in a cube environment. Vintage Cube Cards Explained
I'm actively maintaining a comprehensive article to help explain to new cube players how some complex vintage level cards work in a cube environment. Vintage Cube Cards Explained
I don't run it in the main atm since i want my 60 to be heavily focused on winning. My meta isnt overly heavy with coco decks or bant eldrazi.
I prefer it in the side myself but it all depends on what your meta looks like.
I don't run dismember in the main also as i don't want to be in a situation where i draw that and dont get the win because i top decked a kill spell and not pump.
Seems to be working for two weeks in a row i have gone 4/0
After you lose so many games to a well timed skite you will see why it's good in the main. Dismember does the job as well but it costs 4 life. I actually don't like it in the side for more concentrated hate cards, it's just versatile enough to be good in the main though.
Played Infect on MTGO for the first time in months, blossoming defense is a sweet card. Killed Scapeshift on turn 3, was very lolworthy. I'm glad infect is such a combo killer deck to most of the format
The amount of times opponents resolve a spellskite against me and i go on to win is not funny.
I definitely don't like to see it but you can beat it. Its probably helped by the fact i run a playset of blossoming defense in the main and ill just attack let them block and then kill the skite by pumping the infector or if they don't block ill just put the counters on the player.
Its still a pain in the arse but so many ppl think its a insta win against infect.
The amount of times opponents resolve a spellskite against me and i go on to win is not funny.
I definitely don't like to see it but you can beat it. Its probably helped by the fact i run a playset of blossoming defense in the main and ill just attack let them block and then kill the skite by pumping the infector or if they don't block ill just put the counters on the player.
Its still a pain in the arse but so many ppl think its a insta win against infect.
When they have a healthy life total they can steal any pump spell you cast making attacking into a skite very dangerous. Attacking with an elf, if they block with the skite and then steal your BD with skite they just two for oned you leaving you an infecter short for a measly 1 poison counter on skite.
A smart player can win off of the back of a single skite. And unless you have a kill spell, you are just stuck.
Is anyone Sideboarding Tarmogoyf? What are you typically siding out for Tarmogoyf and in which match-ups (Burn and Jund)? If you have experience siding it into post-board games, how severely has the delve on Become Immense impacted your play with Tarmogoyf?
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Modern CETronC WUBGRHumansWUBGR UMerfolkU GUInfectGU RBGxDredgeRBGx
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With a quick search, I found some brief discussion of the idea about a year ago, but no notes on testing. Simic Charm was mentioned more recently and the card is enticingly flexible. The concern, of course, is how difficult casting it is compared to Dismember or even Unsummon.
I'm going to try shaving a Dismember from the board for a Simic Charm, run it through a few leagues, and see how it plays.
UWRjeskai nahiri UWR
UBRgrixis titi UBR
UBRgrixis delverUBR
UR ur kikimite UR
EDH
RUG Riku of Two Reflections RUG
UBR Marchesa, the Black Rose UBR
UBRGYidris, Maelstrom Wielder UBRG
UBRJeleva, Nephalia's ScourgeUBR
I may as well add a couple of other testing notes. I had been running 1 Unravel the Aetherin the board as an answer to Chalice of the Void on one, but Viridian Corrupter is better for that job. I'll be testing the list posted here for a little bit, even though Kitchen Finks has been such a star out of the board.
I haven't tested BDM's list but I can't really take any list running 0 Spell Pierce seriously. It takes percentage points away from matchups like Valakut/Ad Nauseam/Goryo's/any deck running SSG, makes our Jund/Abzan matchup worse giving us fewer answers to the likes of LotV/NoSB and Anger of the Gods (which is even one of the reasons he gives for running Goyf over Finks in the SB) and generally makes us worse against the variety of Prison decks out there.
Spell Pierce is just such a versatile card that I currently actually see experienced Infect players wanting to go up to 4 in the 75 instead of wanting to go down on them. The current metagame is full of early Chalice/Blood Moon/Bridge powered out by SSG's, heck even Jund is running Blood Moon in the SB currently. He mentions that Blossoming gives him enough protection but even cards like Electrolyze/Kolaghan's Command can still 2 for 1 you, while Spell Pierce is mostly a hard counter.
He also tackles the Dredge matchup the wrong way in my opinion, he correctly identified that firstly, it is a favorable MU for us already, and secondly, that Grafdigger's is not the way to beat Dredge since they can just recur Darkblast/Stinkweed Imp which is still very troublesome for us, but the Ravenous Trap are just too narrow of a card to run as a 3-of (except if you're expecting ALOT of Dredge). The biggest problem out of Dredge are the Darkblast since otherwise we can mostly outspeed them, so my go to is Wild Defiance which completely blanks it and makes both Conflagrate/Collective Brutality much worse, while also being generally more versatile, helping against Chalice of the Void/Sudden Shock/Melira and the like.
Speaking of Dredge, this is another MU where Spell Pierce are valuable, countering both Faithless Looting/Cathartic Reunion and Conflagrate/Collective Brutality.
Goyf has also been mentioned as an option in the past and it's surely a beefier beater than Finks, although the advantage of Finks is that we often only need a body to unload our pump spells on, or at least threaten to do so, and Finks basically provides us with 2. This is especially advantageous against Jund, where the life gain/persist helps survive their early beatdowns and isolate us even more against LoTV edict effects.
I do like going up on Viridian Corrupter if you find room for them, I especially enjoy the niche use of catching Aether Vial decks off guard, since both Merfolk/Eldrazi Taxes sometimes keep greedy 1/2 landers relying on the Vial. If you want to actually run a non-creature answer for Chalice not named Wild Defiance I'd go with Naturalize over Unravel the Aether.
The most up to date SB guide I can think of for the current meta and which I liked and mostly agreed with is this one : http://www.gatheringmagic.com/andrewjessup-10242016-modern-infect-primer/
The article, aside from a SB guide, also contains an in depth explanation of his choices and omissions, which is helpful for newer players.
The only questionable suggestion of his iirc was for the Tron MU, where he (mistakenly, I believe) prioritized boarding in Twisted Image over Nature's Claim, which just has more targets other than Spellskite.
The other questionable SB is for the Jund/Abzan MU, but like he said, this is up to preference. You can take his approach, or try to grind Jund out with Dismember/Finks/Spell Pierce. Dismember in particular can be crucial to prevent a turn 2 Dark Confidant (when on the draw) from running away with the game.
For anyone interested, here's another article of Andrew Jessup I found interesting about ethical/unethical play giving Infect plays as an example. This is a nice read because it emphasizes the importance of the bluff factor and psychological mindgames which help you gain percentage points when piloting a deck like Infect.
http://www.gatheringmagic.com/andrewjessup-11072016-opening-a-dialogue-on-ethics/
Not running any spell pierce is a mistake. Also i think goyf is a bad card to be running in the sb.
Ppl run finks because it is able to exert pressure while gaining life. The gain life part is very important.
Im not a fan of finks personally i run pulse of meresa in its spot since it furthers my game plan while gaining even more life.
Ravenous trap feels like it is a little too narrow hate card. We like grafdiggers cage because it also shuts down coco decks that run melira combo. It also helps against decks running snapcasters too. Its a verstile hate card.
We are favoured against dredge so i prefer to maintain extra pressure to say do you have a answer to my gy hate with a card that hits various decks.
If you have vines in hand you just cast it on Corrupter and it's not blinked, so there is no problem there. You can save inkmoth with vines in that scenario.
Yep you're right, I pointed that out in the comments section when the article was first published, although the way he worded it he is technically correct. IF the corrupter gets blinked (and the ETB trigger is already on the stack) there is no saving the Inkmoth with Vines anymore, so you have to Vines the Corrupter preemptively knowing your Inkmoth will die otherwise, which for newer players may not be clear He should've pointed this out nonetheless or omitted the interaction completely though.
Isn't this a card you primarily bring in post sideboard to deal with cards like spellskite and to a lesser degree, noble, thing in the ice etc?
Vintage Cube Cards Explained
Here are some other articles I've written about fine tuning your cube:
1. Minimum Archetype Support
2. Improving Green Archetypes
3. Improving White Archetypes
4. Matchup Analysis
5. Cube Combos (Work in Progress)
Draft my Cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/d8i
Killing a spellskite for 1 mana instant speed and draw a card is super satisfying.
It seems much better as a sideboard card
Vintage Cube Cards Explained
Here are some other articles I've written about fine tuning your cube:
1. Minimum Archetype Support
2. Improving Green Archetypes
3. Improving White Archetypes
4. Matchup Analysis
5. Cube Combos (Work in Progress)
Draft my Cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/d8i
Vintage Cube Cards Explained
Here are some other articles I've written about fine tuning your cube:
1. Minimum Archetype Support
2. Improving Green Archetypes
3. Improving White Archetypes
4. Matchup Analysis
5. Cube Combos (Work in Progress)
Draft my Cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/d8i
I prefer it in the side myself but it all depends on what your meta looks like.
I don't run dismember in the main also as i don't want to be in a situation where i draw that and dont get the win because i top decked a kill spell and not pump.
Seems to be working for two weeks in a row i have gone 4/0
I definitely don't like to see it but you can beat it. Its probably helped by the fact i run a playset of blossoming defense in the main and ill just attack let them block and then kill the skite by pumping the infector or if they don't block ill just put the counters on the player.
Its still a pain in the arse but so many ppl think its a insta win against infect.
When they have a healthy life total they can steal any pump spell you cast making attacking into a skite very dangerous. Attacking with an elf, if they block with the skite and then steal your BD with skite they just two for oned you leaving you an infecter short for a measly 1 poison counter on skite.
A smart player can win off of the back of a single skite. And unless you have a kill spell, you are just stuck.
Legacy: Merfolk U; Shadow UB; Eldrazi Stompy C
Pauper: Delver U
Vintage: Merfolk U
Primers:
CETronC
WUBGRHumansWUBGR
UMerfolkU
GU
InfectGURBGx
DredgeRBGx