I've been testing what I call the "max-protect" version of Infect, and it's been performing very well thus far (undefeated thus far, and that includes 2-0 vs. Jund and 1-0 vs. Delver). Here's what I'm running:
I was just wondering what people thought about it. I honestly haven't sided the Spellskite in much at all, and I'm considering cutting it for something like a Wild Defiance. Any opinions on that?
I like it! How are you liking Botanical Sanctum? It would seem less than ideal due to the fact that it can enter the battlefield tapped.
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"What doesn't grow, dies. And what dies grows the Tarmogoyf."
Current Decks: Modern: BRG Jund BRG Legacy: UBG BUG UBG
Why no twisted image in the 75? The 4 nature's claim/2 corrupter SB are an overkill imo. The MD seems fine in a meta without MD spellskites, basically as you said, "max protection".
From what I gather your local meta has no dorks or chord decks, or else you'd be all over those Twisted Image/3 Dismember splits.
Imo Wild Defiance gets better the more popularity Infect gains, since it beats all the hate out there. I've been very happy with it so I'd recommend you try it out.
Maybe I run Twisted Image instead of Spellskite, then? I haven't run into any Skites in my testing, but the ability to pop mana dorks for tempo is also a thing. As for Chord decks... is anyone running into those anymore? That deck is dead.
Why do you run 4 nature's claim and 2 corrupters? I'd go down to 3/1 or even 2/1 for 2 or 3 Twisted Image. Twisted Image is also solid against affinity so you'd be covered in that aspect, if that is the reason for the 4/2 split you currently have. If the 2 corrupter are specifically for chalice then I'd go with 1 corrupter/1 wild defiance just for flexibility instead.
1) How many lands do you run, assuming Dryad Arbor is listed as creature only and not land.
2) Dryad Arbor(y/n). Main or side?
3) How many Blossoming Defence? How many Apostle's Blessing? How many Nature's Claim in the sideboard?
4) Do you prefer Spellskite or Wild Defiance in the sideboard? Why's that?(Ok, a little bit of explaining here if you don't mind)
5) What are your worst 3 matchups?
6) What are your top 3 matchups?
7) What are the 3 cards that you would never, ever want your opponents to cast?
1. 19 feels perfect.
2. Arbor should be a sideboard card, except if you expect A LOT of Liliana's and Death Shadow Aggro.
3. 4 Blossoming Defense is the way to go right now i think. I'd say the question is whether to play 3 or 4 Vines right now. Blessing has been gone for me, i rather put the question if Distortion Strike or SlipSpace, but for now i play the Strike
4. 100% Spellskite. Has just many many more uses. Wild Defiance only is really good vs burn.
5. Burn, GrixisDelver, JeskaiControl
6. Ad Nauseum, Tron, actually everything except the ones mentioned in 5. are never bad.
7. Night of Soul's Betrayal (by far!), Izzet Staticaster, Melira
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1) Excluding Dryad Arbor, I run the standard 19 lands.
2) I don't run Dryad Arbor, and honestly, in my meta have never had need to.
3) 3 Blossoming Defense MainBoard, No Apostle's, and run 3 Nature's Claims in the Side. This is mostly due to my meta being Chalice, Detention Sphere, and Affinity heavy.
4) Wild Defiance. Still triggers, even if the opponent redirects the pump to their own creature, Once it lands, tends to stick, and can't be "burned" away with enough direct damage spells.
5) Honestly, Dredge and Azorious control has been tough to get past.
6) Easily bust affinity, burn, and Titan/ Valakut dekcs
7) Melira, and any combination of straight sweepers.
1) Excluding Dryad Arbor, I run the standard 19 lands.
2) I don't run Dryad Arbor, and honestly, in my meta have never had need to.
3) 3 Blossoming Defense MainBoard, No Apostle's, and run 3 Nature's Claims in the Side. This is mostly due to my meta being Chalice, Detention Sphere, and Affinity heavy.
4) Wild Defiance. Still triggers, even if the opponent redirects the pump to their own creature, Once it lands, tends to stick, and can't be "burned" away with enough direct damage spells.
5) Honestly, Dredge and Azorious control has been tough to get past.
6) Easily bust affinity, burn, and Titan/ Valakut dekcs
7) Melira, and any combination of straight sweepers.
1) what's a keepable hand? 2 lands, 1 elf, 4 pumps? or 2 infect creatures and 3 spells?
There's no absolute answer here, on the play ? on the draw ? post side ? known/unknown matchup ?
Vs Jund/Junk you may want to keep any average 7 hand on the draw they're going to shred it with discard anyway, vs Boggles you'll keep any hand with a spellskite in it, vs tron you'll need a turn 1 elf ...
How is the deck against RG Tron and Control decks?
Depending on the build but with 8 free spells (4 mutagenic growth and 4 gitaxian probe) 19 is the good number
How is the deck against RG Tron and Control decks?
RG tron is favorable for infect, I'd say +70% infect win with a good pilot.
Grixis/Jund decks are hard for infect, Jeskai is almost unbeatable and UW control matchup is slightly better since they rely on Wall of Omens to survive early and we can Twisted image it
Against Grixis/Jund and decks that have lots of ways to kill our infect guys do you think that keeping 1 land 1 hierarch 1 agent is ok? Don't know if it's better to mulligan to 6 and find a better hand (with more lands), or just t1 land hierarch, t2 agent (without protection if you don't find another land) hoping to not die hehe
Hey, guys, I've had Infect built for about half a year now (been playing it pretty exclusively in the last few months) and I'm going to my first big tournament this weekend (SCG Open Milwaukee). My list is pretty standard, except for running Dryad Arbor in the main (though I could be persuaded to move it to the side). I've loved Blossoming Defense - Have most people moved on to completing the playset of Defenses by cutting a Vines of Vastwood? I'm pretty sure most of the time Defense is going to be better to have as a set.
I'd be happy to take any build advice, especially going into a relatively open meta, as well as general sideboarding advice, as I feel that's my weakest area.
Against Grixis/Jund and decks that have lots of ways to kill our infect guys do you think that keeping 1 land 1 hierarch 1 agent is ok? Don't know if it's better to mulligan to 6 and find a better hand (with more lands), or just t1 land hierarch, t2 agent (without protection if you don't find another land) hoping to not die hehe
Pretty tricky question, what are the 4 other cards ?
If there's a Gitaxian probe I'd keep it : extra info + card draw would help me to sequence next play.
A mix of Become Immense/pump spells/dismember/twisted image : Probably ship it, I'm far from being able to cast two spells on the same turn and without a protection spell even if I draw a land I will put my Agent on the field naked, plus Grixis would be glad to see me slow roll my agent so they can serum vision their answers while Jund would discard it or play their tapland to have 2 mana open the next turn for the terminate or the decay.
Yeah, maybe shipping away the hand is the right answer. I kept hands like these and more then once I got blowed out by a kill spell on hierarch and not finding a second land, or sometimes drawing the land and don't having mana to protect my guy.
ps: sorry for my english, it's not my first language.
He must have changed it for the weekend. He swapped Rancor in over Distortion Strike. Saw an on camera game list where if the Rancor he topped was strike he wins. I want more Strike not less.
Is it worth cutting down on Vines over blossoming. I have definitely kicked vines for wins, but it happens pretty rarely. Maybe go 4-3-1 for blossoming-vines-blessing?
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Modern: UWR Breach, UWB Esper control
Legacy: UW RiP/Helm, UR Sneak and Show
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I like it! How are you liking Botanical Sanctum? It would seem less than ideal due to the fact that it can enter the battlefield tapped.
Current Decks:
Modern: BRG Jund BRG
Legacy: UBG BUG UBG
Legacy: Merfolk U; Shadow UB; Eldrazi Stompy C
Pauper: Delver U
Vintage: Merfolk U
Primers:
From what I gather your local meta has no dorks or chord decks, or else you'd be all over those Twisted Image/3 Dismember splits.
Imo Wild Defiance gets better the more popularity Infect gains, since it beats all the hate out there. I've been very happy with it so I'd recommend you try it out.
Legacy: Merfolk U; Shadow UB; Eldrazi Stompy C
Pauper: Delver U
Vintage: Merfolk U
Primers:
Legacy: Merfolk U; Shadow UB; Eldrazi Stompy C
Pauper: Delver U
Vintage: Merfolk U
Primers:
1) 20 lands.
2) Dryad Arbor in the sideboard.
3) 4 Blossoming Defense in the main, 2 Apostle's Blessing in the main, 2 Nature's Claim in the sideboard.
4) I was always on Spellskite, but I'm not siding it in much anymore, so I'm going to try out Wild Defiance.
5) Worst 3 matchups (among the tiered decks) are Burn, Jeskai Control, and Jund.
6) Best 3 matchups (among the tiered decks) are Ad Nauseam, RG Tron, and Soul Sisters.
7) Anger of the Gods when I'm tapped out, Lightning Bolt, and Sudden Shock.
Legacy: Merfolk U; Shadow UB; Eldrazi Stompy C
Pauper: Delver U
Vintage: Merfolk U
Primers:
1) 19.
2) Dryad Arbor MD, that card is a beast. Plan B of Infect. Killed a bunch of high impact creatures (Grim Lavamancer, Deceiver Exarch, and a Delver) with it before.
3) 3 Blossoming Defence. 1 Apostle's Blessing. 2 Nature's Claim in the sideboard.
4) I have both Spellskite and Wild Defiance in my SB. The 4th Kitchen Finks was swapped-in for Wild Defiance 'coz Sudden Shock does tons of work.
5) 3. URx variants (Grix & USA) 2. BGx variants 1. Burn (Nacatl-less) 'coz of more interaction.
6) 3. Merfolk 2. Elves 1. RG Tron.
7) 3. Night of Souls' Betrayal 2. Sudden Shock 1. Melira, Sylvok Outcast
2) Dryad Arbor(y/n). Main or side?
3) How many Blossoming Defence? How many Apostle's Blessing? How many Nature's Claim in the sideboard?
4) Do you prefer Spellskite or Wild Defiance in the sideboard? Why's that?(Ok, a little bit of explaining here if you don't mind)
5) What are your worst 3 matchups?
6) What are your top 3 matchups?
7) What are the 3 cards that you would never, ever want your opponents to cast?
1. 19 feels perfect.
2. Arbor should be a sideboard card, except if you expect A LOT of Liliana's and Death Shadow Aggro.
3. 4 Blossoming Defense is the way to go right now i think. I'd say the question is whether to play 3 or 4 Vines right now. Blessing has been gone for me, i rather put the question if Distortion Strike or SlipSpace, but for now i play the Strike
4. 100% Spellskite. Has just many many more uses. Wild Defiance only is really good vs burn.
5. Burn, GrixisDelver, JeskaiControl
6. Ad Nauseum, Tron, actually everything except the ones mentioned in 5. are never bad.
7. Night of Soul's Betrayal (by far!), Izzet Staticaster, Melira
2) I don't run Dryad Arbor, and honestly, in my meta have never had need to.
3) 3 Blossoming Defense MainBoard, No Apostle's, and run 3 Nature's Claims in the Side. This is mostly due to my meta being Chalice, Detention Sphere, and Affinity heavy.
4) Wild Defiance. Still triggers, even if the opponent redirects the pump to their own creature, Once it lands, tends to stick, and can't be "burned" away with enough direct damage spells.
5) Honestly, Dredge and Azorious control has been tough to get past.
6) Easily bust affinity, burn, and Titan/ Valakut dekcs
7) Melira, and any combination of straight sweepers.
How is your sideboard plan for burn?
1) what's a keepable hand? 2 lands, 1 elf, 4 pumps? or 2 infect creatures and 3 spells?
2) What does Dryad Arbor do in the deck?
3) 19 or 20 lands?
Against Grixis/Jund and decks that have lots of ways to kill our infect guys do you think that keeping 1 land 1 hierarch 1 agent is ok? Don't know if it's better to mulligan to 6 and find a better hand (with more lands), or just t1 land hierarch, t2 agent (without protection if you don't find another land) hoping to not die hehe
I'd be happy to take any build advice, especially going into a relatively open meta, as well as general sideboarding advice, as I feel that's my weakest area.
4 Blighted Agent
1 Dryad Arbor
4 Glistener Elf
4 Noble Hierarch
Instants (22)
4 Become Immense
3 Blossoming Defense
1 Dismember
4 Might of Old Krosa
4 Mutagenic Growth
1 Spell Pierce
1 Twisted Image
4 Vines of Vastwood
2 Distortion Strike
4 Gitaxian Probe
Lands (19)
2 Breeding Pool
2 Forest
4 Inkmoth Nexus
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Pendelhaven
2 Verdant Catacombs
2 Windswept Heath
3 Wooded Foothills
2 Dismember
1 Dispel
3 Kitchen Finks
2 Nature's Claim
2 Spell Pierce
2 Twisted Image
1 Viridian Corrupter
2 Wild Defiance
Yeah, maybe shipping away the hand is the right answer. I kept hands like these and more then once I got blowed out by a kill spell on hierarch and not finding a second land, or sometimes drawing the land and don't having mana to protect my guy.
ps: sorry for my english, it's not my first language.
Creatures (13)
4 Blighted Agent
4 Glistener Elf
4 Noble Hierarch
1 Dryad Arbor
Lands (19)
2 Forest
2 Breeding Pool
4 Inkmoth Nexus
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Verdant Catacombs
3 Windswept Heath
2 Wooded Foothills
2 Pendelhaven
Spells (28)
2 Rancor
4 Become Immense
4 Blossoming Defense
2 Dismember
4 Might of Old Krosa
4 Mutagenic Growth
4 Vines of Vastwood
4 Gitaxian Probe
Sideboard
3 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Pithing Needle
1 Necropede
2 Spellskite
1 Viridian Corrupter
3 Nature's Claim
2 Spell Pierce
2 Twisted Image
Legacy: UW RiP/Helm, UR Sneak and Show