The problem with all those 2-mana, dig for a creature spells is that you're spending as much mana as it takes to play an Infect creature. You might as well just play more Infect creatures or Wild Defiance. Also, with the exception of Grisly Salvage, none of them get you lands.
The rule that I have for cantrips is that they must be able to get you a land, threat or engine piece. Take Ancient Stirrings for example.
In RG Tron: threat = Wurmcoil/Karn/Ugin/Emrakul, engine = Expedition Map/eggs
In Amulet: threat = Tolaria West (transmute into Summoner's Pact, Pact into Primeval Titan), engine = Amulet of Vigor
Applying the same principle to Grisly Salavge in Infect: threat = any Infect creature/Inkmoth, engine = Pendelhaven/Noble Hierarch
I don't think Commune with the Gods or Gather the Pack (or Commune with Nature, for that matter) have a place in this deck because they can't get pumps other than Hierarch. They also lose to Grisly Salvage on not being able to get Inkmoth Nexus.
One idea that I had (but never got around to testing) was Ancient Stirrings in a mono-G build. Threat = artifact Infect creatures/Inkmoth, engine = Pendelhaven/Noble Hierarch/Cathedral of War. Cathedral pretty much forces you into one color. It doesn't seem like a good idea now though, when people are playing maindeck Kolaghan's Command.
Are there any creative replacements for Pendelhaven?
Llanowar Reborn? Honestly though that card is terrible, it ETBs tapped and you pretty much have to play it on turn 1 since it does nothing if you play your Infect creature first followed by Llanowar Reborn.
I agree with most all you said. Especially thinking of using those spells in a vacuum just for a creature. My take is that if someone is using 3 or 4 copies ofBecome Immense then filling your graveyard up to cast a G +6/+6 could be a viable strategy. If I was running 3 or 4 copies of BI I'd be thinking about additional ways to dump into the graveyard over just fetch lands. I've play tested my deck with BI in it many times and more times than not I'm sitting there with BI in my hand and just 1 or 2 in my GY. Again, just a thought for those that run BI.
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STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
Are there any creative replacements for Pendelhaven?
I haven't run across any viable ones yet. I'd love to know if there was one out there. I only run one Pendelhaven myself because I hate having a second be a dead card. I'd love to find something that could produce G orU and give a creature a boost. I think most everyone playing Infect would as well.
Not that this is anything new, but cathedral of war is a thing. Sucks that it comes into play tapped, but afterwards you can tap it for mama and still get the stat boost, something pendelhaven can't do
Hey guys, I have been running my UG deck for 4 FNM/Local Tournament lately and I have finished 3-1 one time and 2-2 three times. It really sucks to finish 2-2, being so close to finish 3-1 and get the reward, but finishing short of one game. I have lost to grixis control, jeskai control, blood moon and once to jund.
Since most of my losses came from control decks and knowing Inkmoth Nexus is a boss versus them, I have been seriously considering adding some sylvan scrying in my SB. I also thought that it would be nice to add a "counterspell" in my MB. Since the first game is usually faster, I think that Spell Pierce is a better option than Dispel, countering pretty much every threat my opponent could have.
Hence, here is the deck that I would be running next tournament:
Hey guys, I have been running my UG deck for 4 FNM/Local Tournament lately and I have finished 3-1 one time and 2-2 three times. It really sucks to finish 2-2, being so close to finish 3-1 and get the reward, but finishing short of one game. I have lost to grixis control, jeskai control, blood moon and once to jund.
Since most of my losses came from control decks and knowing Inkmoth Nexus is a boss versus them, I have been seriously considering adding some sylvan scrying in my SB. I also thought that it would be nice to add a "counterspell" in my MB. Since the first game is usually faster, I think that Spell Pierce is a better option than Dispel, countering pretty much every threat my opponent could have.
Hence, here is the deck that I would be running next tournament:
Well to be honest it feels pretty slow for me, but I am always happy to have one in my hand when I'm going for the kill (a second in hand would be a dead card). Combined with wild defiance it makes a nice one turn kill. However, when I sideboard in, I usually take out some mutagenic growth and gitaxian probe (and usually 1 Become Immense), making my other become immense harder to cast... I know I have issues with my sideboarding, I find it pretty hard to know which card to take out.
I definitely need more practice with the deck!
Well to be honest it feels pretty slow for me, but I am always happy to have one in my hand when I'm going for the kill (a second in hand would be a dead card). Combined with wild defiance it makes a nice one turn kill. However, when I sideboard in, I usually take out some mutagenic growth and gitaxian probe (and usually 1 Become Immense), making my other become immense harder to cast... I know I have issues with my sideboarding, I find it pretty hard to know which card to take out.
I definitely need more practice with the deck!
Gotcha, thanks for the info! I've found BI to be a dead card way more often than not, so I've taken them out completely from MB and SB as well. Was just trying to see how successful other people have been with it.
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Well to be honest it feels pretty slow for me, but I am always happy to have one in my hand when I'm going for the kill (a second in hand would be a dead card). Combined with wild defiance it makes a nice one turn kill. However, when I sideboard in, I usually take out some mutagenic growth and gitaxian probe (and usually 1 Become Immense), making my other become immense harder to cast... I know I have issues with my sideboarding, I find it pretty hard to know which card to take out.
I definitely need more practice with the deck!
Gotcha, thanks for the info! I've found BI to be a dead card way more often than not, so I've taken them out completely from MB and SB as well. Was just trying to see how successful other people have been with it.
Thanks. I have as well. I'm not sure what the percent is but it ends up being dead more often than playable in mine as well. One reason I'm sure is I don't run a full set of fetch lands, but even with I have a feeling it would still be dead more often than not.
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STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
Thanks in advance, i have read the previous few pages at least in prep for making this deck, I don't recall seeing this question asked, I am pondering the postmortem lunge though as a possible addition to my SB too as I believe the surprise will be great against certain decks
If you do, let us know how it goes. Thanks.
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STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
i won every game I used a Become Immense as I run 9 fetches, and 4 Git Probes as well as the rest, so the grave always had enough to pull off the BI, i only ran 3 though, and usually sided another out when siding against most decks, I never had it as a dead card, but in my new idea it is replaced by stonewood, i might have a one off of it, room permitting
Thanks. So in other words you never had a BI in your opening hand or drew it on turn one or two? Those are the two situations in which it seems to come up a lot for me when I run BI.
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STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
Thanks. I have as well. I'm not sure what the percent is but it ends up being dead more often than playable in mine as well. One reason I'm sure is I don't run a full set of fetch lands, but even with I have a feeling it would still be dead more often than not.
I run 8 Fetches and 4 Gitaxian Probes and almost never have enough in my gy to play it. I think I've played it successfully like once. I've been running a few Groundswell though. At least I can still squeeze out a +2/+2 at the very least. It's never dead.
i won every game I used a Become Immense as I run 9 fetches, and 4 Git Probes as well as the rest, so the grave always had enough to pull off the BI, i only ran 3 though, and usually sided another out when siding against most decks, I never had it as a dead card, but in my new idea it is replaced by stonewood, i might have a one off of it, room permitting
I run 1 less fetch, but I feel like running the 9th will still not be enough for me to run BI. Plus the first thing I side out in game 2 are the 4 Probes.
Thanks. So in other words you never had a BI in your opening hand or drew it on turn one or two? Those are the two situations in which it seems to come up a lot for me when I run BI.
What makes it worse is that we don't run many creatures in the deck. So whenever I see a BI (I've sometimes had two!) in my opening hand, I feel like I need to mul. But that's a terrible thing to need to do especially if the rest of your hand is pretty decent. And your next hand could have no creatures! I'm always scared about my opening hands and muls with this deck haha.
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Just some thoughts from games over the last few fnm's
Path to exile with temple garden in the sideboard feels good so far. Being able to exile melira so she can't be recurred with eternal witness is nice and no life loss to dismember is great. That being said I'm sure I'm going to have a game where im stuck choosing between fetching for breeding pool or temple garden and then never seen another fetch to get the color I need.
Going to add 2-3 grafdiggers to sideboard to further combat abzan company due to how difficult the matchup is. if these resolve it should entirely shut down their deck and then we can path any problem cards that get naturally drawn. would likely bring in some number of them against any snapcaster decks as well.
one of the problems i consistently have run into is just running out of infect creatures and then never drawing another one before I die against any deck with removal. to address it i made room for 2 ichorclaw mir which hasn't been bad..
think i am going to swap them for 2x sylvan scrying as I feel there is a lot more utility there and in most games i would much rather have inkmoth than ichorclaw. on the utility side it can also grab pendelhaven which can be huge in games where someone drops a spellskite you can't get rid of and can also assist with finding the third color.
Just some thoughts from games over the last few fnm's
Path to exile with temple garden in the sideboard feels good so far. Being able to exile melira so she can't be recurred with eternal witness is nice and no life loss to dismember is great. That being said I'm sure I'm going to have a game where im stuck choosing between fetching for breeding pool or temple garden and then never seen another fetch to get the color I need.
Going to add 2-3 grafdiggers to sideboard to further combat abzan company due to how difficult the matchup is. if these resolve it should entirely shut down their deck and then we can path any problem cards that get naturally drawn. would likely bring in some number of them against any snapcaster decks as well.
one of the problems i consistently have run into is just running out of infect creatures and then never drawing another one before I die against any deck with removal. to address it i made room for 2 ichorclaw mir which hasn't been bad..
think i am going to swap them for 2x sylvan scrying as I feel there is a lot more utility there and in most games i would much rather have inkmoth than ichorclaw. on the utility side it can also grab pendelhaven which can be huge in games where someone drops a spellskite you can't get rid of and can also assist with finding the third color.
They are good. I've probably played about 20-30 games with them, so don't have a ton of reference but my experiences so far have been that if nothing else they fuel become immense and they are very good in the games that go longer than t3/4 which is quite a few. I have had one or two games where they're over before I ever have a good opportunity to use them, but I think overall they belong in the deck to help smooth things out and set up answers.
They are good. I've probably played about 20-30 games with them, so don't have a ton of reference but my experiences so far have been that if nothing else they fuel become immense and they are very good in the games that go longer than t3/4 which is quite a few. I have had one or two games where they're over before I ever have a good opportunity to use them, but I think overall they belong in the deck to help smooth things out and set up answers.
Awesome, while I don't currently run BI anymore, my hope is that this will help move things along when I need good draws.
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Hey guys, I'm going to my first ever FNM on Friday and I'm taking the Infect deck along with me! I wanted to post what my deck looks like now and maybe discuss what I should change if anything. I don't know what the meta is like as I've never played here before so I'm going to have to be ready for anything I guess.
Some thoughts - I've never tried Path to Exile with this deck, but I'm thinking of using this instead of Dismember for the FNM. I just feel like Dismember is too painful on my life total. Although Path to Exile accelerates their manabase and I can't figure out which I'd rather have happen. Also the usual way to bring in the Temple Garden is to sub out a Breeding Pool right?
I don't know if I'll ever bring in the Distortion Strike. Should I remove it from my sideboard altogether? What should I sub in if I do? Twisted Image perhaps?
Also kinda tempted to put in one or two Ichorclaw Myr in the SB just because we hardly have creatures and there is so much removal out there! But I don't know... Maybe that's a terrible idea. Perhaps a better idea would be 2 Sylvan Scrying since I can always grab an Inkmoth when I'm sitting around with land and no creatures!
My sideboard strategy is normally to take out the 4x Gitaxian Probe after game 1 to bring in 4 other cards I think would be useful. I generally never leave Gitaxian Probe in the deck after game 1 simply because it's the easiest thing to cut without messing with the deck synergy too much. Do any of you like leaving the Gitaxian Probe in there after game 1? If so, what do you generally take out to bring in sideboard cards for the remaining games?
Anyway, just wanted to get some thoughts and opinions!
I don't know if I'll ever bring in the Distortion Strike. Should I remove it from my sideboard altogether? What should I sub in if I do? Twisted Image perhaps?
Also kinda tempted to put in one or two Ichorclaw Myr in the SB just because we hardly have creatures and there is so much removal out there! But I don't know... Maybe that's a terrible idea. Perhaps a better idea would be 2 Sylvan Scrying since I can always grab an Inkmoth when I'm sitting around with land and no creatures!
My sideboard strategy is normally to take out the 4x Gitaxian Probe after game 1 to bring in 4 other cards I think would be useful. I generally never leave Gitaxian Probe in the deck after game 1 simply because it's the easiest thing to cut without messing with the deck synergy too much. Do any of you like leaving the Gitaxian Probe in there after game 1? If so, what do you generally take out to bring in sideboard cards for the remaining games?
Anyway, just wanted to get some thoughts and opinions!
I pushed Distortion Strike from the Main to the SB, and I recently pulled them out completely for 2x Ranger's Guild in the SB. D-Strike is good when you're up against Token type decks, but I never wanted to cast it on an Inkmoth against flying tokens, so it's really only good casting it on Glistener Elf. D-Strike is very meta dependent and I've had more issues with removal/counters so I'm trying out hexproof to see how it is.
I've contemplated Ichorclaw, but I feel like it's only good if you're running Rancor. I've considered Scrying but I haven't really thought it through because I figure you'd really only want to tutor for Inkmoths. I suppose a tutor for a fetch might help, but if you're in that board state, you're probably way behind. Scrying doesn't impact the board immediately, and it probably sets you back at least one turn.
I only take all probes out against Affinity and Burn, but I also run a full 4x Become Immense main.
Threat density is a little light, but I think that it's a good trade-off under the assumption that you want 1-2 threats, 2-3 lands, 1-2 Pump, 2-3 protection opening hand.
I'm having sideboarding issues as well, because I'm not sure how many pump spells need to stay in. Against control decks, I usually start with -1 BI, -1 Might, -2 Git Probe for +2 Dispel, +1 Pierce, +1 Spellskite. You never want to see 2x BI, but I always want one when I don't have one. Playing online, the decks I have consistent trouble with are Grix and Jeskai control.
Hey guys, I'm going to my first ever FNM on Friday and I'm taking the Infect deck along with me! I wanted to post what my deck looks like now and maybe discuss what I should change if anything. I don't know what the meta is like as I've never played here before so I'm going to have to be ready for anything I guess.
Some thoughts - I've never tried Path to Exile with this deck, but I'm thinking of using this instead of Dismember for the FNM. I just feel like Dismember is too painful on my life total. Although Path to Exile accelerates their manabase and I can't figure out which I'd rather have happen. Also the usual way to bring in the Temple Garden is to sub out a Breeding Pool right?
I don't know if I'll ever bring in the Distortion Strike. Should I remove it from my sideboard altogether? What should I sub in if I do? Twisted Image perhaps?
Also kinda tempted to put in one or two Ichorclaw Myr in the SB just because we hardly have creatures and there is so much removal out there! But I don't know... Maybe that's a terrible idea. Perhaps a better idea would be 2 Sylvan Scrying since I can always grab an Inkmoth when I'm sitting around with land and no creatures!
My sideboard strategy is normally to take out the 4x Gitaxian Probe after game 1 to bring in 4 other cards I think would be useful. I generally never leave Gitaxian Probe in the deck after game 1 simply because it's the easiest thing to cut without messing with the deck synergy too much. Do any of you like leaving the Gitaxian Probe in there after game 1? If so, what do you generally take out to bring in sideboard cards for the remaining games?
Anyway, just wanted to get some thoughts and opinions!
I am really not sure about unsummon, but I have never tried it, so maybe sometimes it is useful...
The main thing that you should had somewhere in your deck is a dryad arbor, either main or SB, it is really nice vs liliana and as a surprise chump blocker or attacker. I would probably take out a breeding pool and add a dryad arbor, having 4 breeding pool is not a necessity
For the extra creatures, I prefer sylvan scrying in the SB, yes it might be slower, but Inkmoth is super effective against control match up and the game are always long
Also, depending on your meta, you might want to add 1 or 2 spellskite in your SB for extra protection
I can see why Wall of Roots would fare decently vs some matchups. It lets you -1 once on your turn and once on your opponents turn so it's ideal to protect your creatures on both turns. Last case scenario its a 0/5 creature which can go for the kill with a wild defiance in play, twisted image for an 8/3? Yes please xD. But joking aside, its useful for the additional mana you will have up on both turns, and to some degree also gives you an additional blocker for the more creature heavy decks/burn.
Spreading Seas on the other hand could be useful against greedy manabases and to shut down man lands in slower control matches post SB (tron as well obviously). I don't really feel like it's worth it though.
@Scharfestahl
I believe if you are using up a SB slot for the temple garden then you should have a third path to exile over an unsummon to make it worthwhile.
I know you're not a fan of Become Immense but with 4x gitaxian probe/mutagenic you should include at least 1, if not 2/3. Potentionally +6+6'ing for 1 mana is just too good to pass up, and in grindier matches you should be able to cast 2 or re-cast it if it was remanded for example. A single card getting you 2/3rd's of the way is just very powerful.
Depending on your metagame you could also take out a distortion strike or split it 1 MB/1 SB if there are merfolk/elves/creature heavy decks, potentionally taking out 1 of the 4 apostle's blessing.
You currently have only 6 pump spells which get you halfway(+4+4),not counting vines of vastwood which will mostly be used to protect in my experience. The ideal in my opinion would be 8-11 strong pump spells, or else you will often not be as quick as you'd like/need since you will be lacking power.
At the moment you have 2 spellskite/4 apostle's blessing/4 vines of vastwood/2 wild defiance,12 cards which can all serve as "protection". I would drop an apostle's blessing since you have 2 serum visions and can find a protection spell if needed. Don't forget that after SB you can add your 4 counters, meaning that you can go up to 15/16 cards which can protect your creatures for those grindier matches. Spellskite is generally just very useful for us, so adding one more in the SB would be helpful vs a miriad of our hard matchups.
About the 4 breeding pools, I think having 12 options to produce blue mana is a good amount since you run 2 serum visions, but if you could add another fetch over 1 breeding pool it would be helpful especially since you do have the temple garden in the SB, meaning you'd have an additional way to fetch for it as well (Besides obviously also fueling become immense).
So imo i'd take out 1 apostle's blessing and probably 1 mutagenic growth to add 2 become immense/groundswell in the MB, and add a fetch over the breeding pool if you have it and want to give BE another shot maybe also include 1 distortion strike MB, but this is dependant of your metagame, it does trigger wild defiance twice which alone deals 10 dmg over the course of 2 turns, if you want to add a dryad arbor somewhere in the 75 this also makes the normal dmg route more viable.
In the SB I'd add a third path, remove 1/2 unsummon / 1 distortion strike and bring in another Spellskite for burn/any control/bogles. I'd also probably get rid of one of the 4 nature's claim, freeing some slots up for whatever you feel you're light on. Twisted Image is pretty narrow but when it works it is just great, 2 for 1'ing your opponent for 1 mana is amazing, you can also bring them in in the dark against some decks which might run Spellskite SB, last case scenario if there are no good targets you can just use it at the end of your opponents upkeep to simply draw a card. Vs any deck running noble hierarch/birds of paradise it is an auto include.
You could add another dispel in the SB, a 1cc hard counter against control decks is very good.
Other possible additions would be a dryad arbor, a third wild defiance in SB, or additional infect creatures in ichorclaw myr or necropede in the SB if you want to get cheeky against things like jund running dark confidant or decks with mana dorks/affinity/grim lavamancer/hatebears/etc.
I agree with most all you said. Especially thinking of using those spells in a vacuum just for a creature. My take is that if someone is using 3 or 4 copies ofBecome Immense then filling your graveyard up to cast a G +6/+6 could be a viable strategy. If I was running 3 or 4 copies of BI I'd be thinking about additional ways to dump into the graveyard over just fetch lands. I've play tested my deck with BI in it many times and more times than not I'm sitting there with BI in my hand and just 1 or 2 in my GY. Again, just a thought for those that run BI.
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
Not that this is anything new, but cathedral of war is a thing. Sucks that it comes into play tapped, but afterwards you can tap it for mama and still get the stat boost, something pendelhaven can't do
Here is the list that I am running right now:
4x Blighted Agent
4x Glistener Elf
4x Noble Hierarch
2x Spellskite
Spells (26)
4x Gitaxian Probe
4x Might of Old Krosa
4x Mutagenic Growth
4x Vines of Vastwood
3x Become Immense
3x Apostle's Blessing
2x Distortion Strike
2x Wild Defiance
4x Windswept Heath
4x Wooded Foothills
4x Inkmoth Nexus
2x Pendelhaven
2x Forest
3x Breeding Pool
1x Dryad Arbor
3x Nature's Claim
2x Dispel
2x Dismember
2x Twisted Image
2x Spellskite
2x Spell Pierce
1x Wild Defiance
1x Monastery Siege
Since most of my losses came from control decks and knowing Inkmoth Nexus is a boss versus them, I have been seriously considering adding some sylvan scrying in my SB. I also thought that it would be nice to add a "counterspell" in my MB. Since the first game is usually faster, I think that Spell Pierce is a better option than Dispel, countering pretty much every threat my opponent could have.
Hence, here is the deck that I would be running next tournament:
4x Blighted Agent
4x Glistener Elf
4x Noble Hierarch
2x Spellskite
Spells (26)
4x Gitaxian Probe
4x Might of Old Krosa
3x Mutagenic Growth
4x Vines of Vastwood
3x Become Immense
3x Apostle's Blessing
2x Distortion Strike
2x Wild Defiance
1x Spell Pierce
4x Windswept Heath
4x Wooded Foothills
4x Inkmoth Nexus
2x Pendelhaven
2x Forest
3x Breeding Pool
1x Dryad Arbor
3x Nature's Claim
2x Dispel
2x Dismember
2x Twisted Image
2x Spellskite
2x Sylvan Scrying
1x Wild Defiance
1x Monastery Siege
So, - 1 mutagenic growth MB, -2 Spell pierce SB
+1 Spell pierce MB, +2 sylvan scrying SB
Any opinions or suggestions concerning my MB and my SB would be appreciated!
How often do you find Become Immense playable on average?
Infect
Affinity
Grixis Shadow
Jekai Nahiri
Naya Burn
8-Whack
I definitely need more practice with the deck!
Gotcha, thanks for the info! I've found BI to be a dead card way more often than not, so I've taken them out completely from MB and SB as well. Was just trying to see how successful other people have been with it.
Infect
Affinity
Grixis Shadow
Jekai Nahiri
Naya Burn
8-Whack
Thanks. I have as well. I'm not sure what the percent is but it ends up being dead more often than playable in mine as well. One reason I'm sure is I don't run a full set of fetch lands, but even with I have a feeling it would still be dead more often than not.
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
If you do, let us know how it goes. Thanks.
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
Thanks. So in other words you never had a BI in your opening hand or drew it on turn one or two? Those are the two situations in which it seems to come up a lot for me when I run BI.
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
I run 8 Fetches and 4 Gitaxian Probes and almost never have enough in my gy to play it. I think I've played it successfully like once. I've been running a few Groundswell though. At least I can still squeeze out a +2/+2 at the very least. It's never dead.
I run 1 less fetch, but I feel like running the 9th will still not be enough for me to run BI. Plus the first thing I side out in game 2 are the 4 Probes.
What makes it worse is that we don't run many creatures in the deck. So whenever I see a BI (I've sometimes had two!) in my opening hand, I feel like I need to mul. But that's a terrible thing to need to do especially if the rest of your hand is pretty decent. And your next hand could have no creatures! I'm always scared about my opening hands and muls with this deck haha.
Infect
Affinity
Grixis Shadow
Jekai Nahiri
Naya Burn
8-Whack
Path to exile with temple garden in the sideboard feels good so far. Being able to exile melira so she can't be recurred with eternal witness is nice and no life loss to dismember is great. That being said I'm sure I'm going to have a game where im stuck choosing between fetching for breeding pool or temple garden and then never seen another fetch to get the color I need.
Going to add 2-3 grafdiggers to sideboard to further combat abzan company due to how difficult the matchup is. if these resolve it should entirely shut down their deck and then we can path any problem cards that get naturally drawn. would likely bring in some number of them against any snapcaster decks as well.
one of the problems i consistently have run into is just running out of infect creatures and then never drawing another one before I die against any deck with removal. to address it i made room for 2 ichorclaw mir which hasn't been bad..
think i am going to swap them for 2x sylvan scrying as I feel there is a lot more utility there and in most games i would much rather have inkmoth than ichorclaw. on the utility side it can also grab pendelhaven which can be huge in games where someone drops a spellskite you can't get rid of and can also assist with finding the third color.
anyways current iteration of deck is here:
4 Glistener Elf
2 Spellskite
4 Noble Hierarch
3 Become Immense
4 Vines of Vastwood
4 Might of Old Krosa
1 Giant Growth
4 Mutagenic Growth
2 Pendelhaven
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Inkmoth Nexus
2 Forest
2 Breeding Pool
1 Verdant Catacombs
2 Serum Visions
3 Gitaxian Probe
2 Sylvan Scrying
1 Distortion Strike
1 Dispel
3 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Spellskite
2 Monastery Siege
4 Path to Exile
1 Temple Garden
2 Nature's Claim
2 Dispel
How useful has Serum Visions been for you in your deck? I just added two but have not really had a chance to test them yet to see how useful they are.
Infect
Affinity
Grixis Shadow
Jekai Nahiri
Naya Burn
8-Whack
Awesome, while I don't currently run BI anymore, my hope is that this will help move things along when I need good draws.
Infect
Affinity
Grixis Shadow
Jekai Nahiri
Naya Burn
8-Whack
4x Blighted Agent
4x Glistener Elf
4x Noble Hierarch
2x Spellskite
Instant:
4x Apostle's Blessing
2x Groundswell
4x Might of Old Krosa
4x Mutagenic Growth
4x Vines of Vastwood
Sorcery:
4x Gitaxian Probe
2x Serum Visions
2x Wild Defiance
Land:
4x Breeding Pool
2x Forest
4x Inkmoth Nexus
2x Pendelhaven
4x Windswept Heath
4x Wooded Foothills
Instant:
2x Dispel
4x Nature's Claim
2x Path to Exile
2x Spell Pierce
2x Unsummon
2x Distortion Strike
Land:
1x Temple Garden
Some thoughts - I've never tried Path to Exile with this deck, but I'm thinking of using this instead of Dismember for the FNM. I just feel like Dismember is too painful on my life total. Although Path to Exile accelerates their manabase and I can't figure out which I'd rather have happen. Also the usual way to bring in the Temple Garden is to sub out a Breeding Pool right?
I don't know if I'll ever bring in the Distortion Strike. Should I remove it from my sideboard altogether? What should I sub in if I do? Twisted Image perhaps?
Also kinda tempted to put in one or two Ichorclaw Myr in the SB just because we hardly have creatures and there is so much removal out there! But I don't know... Maybe that's a terrible idea. Perhaps a better idea would be 2 Sylvan Scrying since I can always grab an Inkmoth when I'm sitting around with land and no creatures!
My sideboard strategy is normally to take out the 4x Gitaxian Probe after game 1 to bring in 4 other cards I think would be useful. I generally never leave Gitaxian Probe in the deck after game 1 simply because it's the easiest thing to cut without messing with the deck synergy too much. Do any of you like leaving the Gitaxian Probe in there after game 1? If so, what do you generally take out to bring in sideboard cards for the remaining games?
Anyway, just wanted to get some thoughts and opinions!
Infect
Affinity
Grixis Shadow
Jekai Nahiri
Naya Burn
8-Whack
I pushed Distortion Strike from the Main to the SB, and I recently pulled them out completely for 2x Ranger's Guild in the SB. D-Strike is good when you're up against Token type decks, but I never wanted to cast it on an Inkmoth against flying tokens, so it's really only good casting it on Glistener Elf. D-Strike is very meta dependent and I've had more issues with removal/counters so I'm trying out hexproof to see how it is.
I've contemplated Ichorclaw, but I feel like it's only good if you're running Rancor. I've considered Scrying but I haven't really thought it through because I figure you'd really only want to tutor for Inkmoths. I suppose a tutor for a fetch might help, but if you're in that board state, you're probably way behind. Scrying doesn't impact the board immediately, and it probably sets you back at least one turn.
I only take all probes out against Affinity and Burn, but I also run a full 4x Become Immense main.
4x Blighted Agent
4x Noble Hierarch
1x Spellskite
4x Mutagenic Growth
4x Might of Old Krosa
4x Become Immense
2x Groundswell
4x Vines of Vastwood
2x Apostle's Blessing
2x Wild Defiance
1x Spell Pierce
1x Sleight of Hand
4x Inkmoth Nexus
4x Wooded Foothills
4x Windswept Heath
2x Pendelhaven
3x Forest
2x Breeding Pool
4x Nature's Claim
3x Twisted Image
2x Ranger's Guile
2x Dispel
1x Spell Pierce
1x Spellskite
1x Dryad Arbor
1x Wild Defiance
Threat density is a little light, but I think that it's a good trade-off under the assumption that you want 1-2 threats, 2-3 lands, 1-2 Pump, 2-3 protection opening hand.
I'm having sideboarding issues as well, because I'm not sure how many pump spells need to stay in. Against control decks, I usually start with -1 BI, -1 Might, -2 Git Probe for +2 Dispel, +1 Pierce, +1 Spellskite. You never want to see 2x BI, but I always want one when I don't have one. Playing online, the decks I have consistent trouble with are Grix and Jeskai control.
Would love some sideboarding advice.
I am really not sure about unsummon, but I have never tried it, so maybe sometimes it is useful...
The main thing that you should had somewhere in your deck is a dryad arbor, either main or SB, it is really nice vs liliana and as a surprise chump blocker or attacker. I would probably take out a breeding pool and add a dryad arbor, having 4 breeding pool is not a necessity
For the extra creatures, I prefer sylvan scrying in the SB, yes it might be slower, but Inkmoth is super effective against control match up and the game are always long
Also, depending on your meta, you might want to add 1 or 2 spellskite in your SB for extra protection
Any thoughts on those?
Spreading Seas on the other hand could be useful against greedy manabases and to shut down man lands in slower control matches post SB (tron as well obviously). I don't really feel like it's worth it though.
@Scharfestahl
I believe if you are using up a SB slot for the temple garden then you should have a third path to exile over an unsummon to make it worthwhile.
I know you're not a fan of Become Immense but with 4x gitaxian probe/mutagenic you should include at least 1, if not 2/3. Potentionally +6+6'ing for 1 mana is just too good to pass up, and in grindier matches you should be able to cast 2 or re-cast it if it was remanded for example. A single card getting you 2/3rd's of the way is just very powerful.
Depending on your metagame you could also take out a distortion strike or split it 1 MB/1 SB if there are merfolk/elves/creature heavy decks, potentionally taking out 1 of the 4 apostle's blessing.
You currently have only 6 pump spells which get you halfway(+4+4),not counting vines of vastwood which will mostly be used to protect in my experience. The ideal in my opinion would be 8-11 strong pump spells, or else you will often not be as quick as you'd like/need since you will be lacking power.
At the moment you have 2 spellskite/4 apostle's blessing/4 vines of vastwood/2 wild defiance,12 cards which can all serve as "protection". I would drop an apostle's blessing since you have 2 serum visions and can find a protection spell if needed. Don't forget that after SB you can add your 4 counters, meaning that you can go up to 15/16 cards which can protect your creatures for those grindier matches. Spellskite is generally just very useful for us, so adding one more in the SB would be helpful vs a miriad of our hard matchups.
About the 4 breeding pools, I think having 12 options to produce blue mana is a good amount since you run 2 serum visions, but if you could add another fetch over 1 breeding pool it would be helpful especially since you do have the temple garden in the SB, meaning you'd have an additional way to fetch for it as well (Besides obviously also fueling become immense).
So imo i'd take out 1 apostle's blessing and probably 1 mutagenic growth to add 2 become immense/groundswell in the MB, and add a fetch over the breeding pool if you have it and want to give BE another shot maybe also include 1 distortion strike MB, but this is dependant of your metagame, it does trigger wild defiance twice which alone deals 10 dmg over the course of 2 turns, if you want to add a dryad arbor somewhere in the 75 this also makes the normal dmg route more viable.
In the SB I'd add a third path, remove 1/2 unsummon / 1 distortion strike and bring in another Spellskite for burn/any control/bogles. I'd also probably get rid of one of the 4 nature's claim, freeing some slots up for whatever you feel you're light on. Twisted Image is pretty narrow but when it works it is just great, 2 for 1'ing your opponent for 1 mana is amazing, you can also bring them in in the dark against some decks which might run Spellskite SB, last case scenario if there are no good targets you can just use it at the end of your opponents upkeep to simply draw a card. Vs any deck running noble hierarch/birds of paradise it is an auto include.
You could add another dispel in the SB, a 1cc hard counter against control decks is very good.
Other possible additions would be a dryad arbor, a third wild defiance in SB, or additional infect creatures in ichorclaw myr or necropede in the SB if you want to get cheeky against things like jund running dark confidant or decks with mana dorks/affinity/grim lavamancer/hatebears/etc.