Expecting a bunch of Twin, some Jund/Abzan, and then just the usual suspects like Affinity, Tron, etc.
3 Serum Visions seemed like too many in the main, so I cut one of those for the 4th Mutagenic Growth. It seemed like I was slowing myself down too much game one, so that I had less game against less interactive decks, and it also gave me less to board out vs. Twin, where I was finding I have more than enough to bring in, but I'm unsure what to take out.
Also opted for Dismember in the board over Rapid Hybridization. Without getting the chance to test it extensively, I felt like losing 4 life would be better than giving my opponent a 3/3 in most, though not all, circumstances. A big reason for this is my omission of Distortion Strike.
Really excited for this one. I tested a bunch against Twin, and I feel more confident about the match up than I think I ever have. Quietly confident that I'll top 8
I really like your list! If I had the funds, I think mine would be pretty much the same too. I did get a Spellskite in a booster yesterday, so I'm a step closer
Let us know how it plays and good luck!
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Modern Infect Affinity Grixis Shadow Jekai Nahiri Naya Burn 8-Whack
I'm unfamiliar with infect and would like to ask a couple of questions.
1) Is UG infect with only Blighted Agents and Glistener Elfs now pretty much accepted as the best version of infect? The primer says that BUG is the best but I haven't seen any BUG lists put up results lately.
2) The primer says when playing against Melira to save your pumps for a 1-hit kill to avoid having your work "undone" by Melira. But Melira doesn't remove existing poison counters, so isn't it better just to get damage in while you can, then remove Melira and finish them off? Unless of course they have mana open to Chord into her or something.
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Current Modern decks BGW Junk / URB Grixis Shadow / RGB Lantern Control / WUBCBant Eldrazi
Current Legacy decks BUG Shardless BUG / UWR Predict Miracles / RUG Canadian Thresh / WRBG 4c Loam UB Reanimator
Henning has all four Ichorclaw Myr in the main, which is rather odd considering that he's also playing an Overgrown Tomb to cast Abrupt Decay out of the sideboard. The rest of his list is rather stock, with notable choices being Rancor, Ranger's Guile in the sideboard and all four Spell Pierce in the sideboard.
Splashing a color just for sideboard cards/removal. I think the best would be white for Path, Stony Silence and Rest in Peace among others, but red for Grudge and black for Decay/Dismember/Thoughtseize like Henning did seem reasonable as well.
So I went 5-2 at my PPTQ today! I was so very close to getting top 8 at the end. I believe I finished 9th or 10th. It was a 87 person showing. So I was quite happy with the results.
I ran the list below:
Round 1: Storm: 2-0:
It had been a while since I played storm. So I wasn't sure what they had in store in the SB. Luckily, I had enough good draws both games, that I won the race each time. He essentially fizzled when I needed him to.
Round 2: Naya Podless CoCo: 2-1:
This was a pretty grindy match-up, but I managed to pull ahead in the end. I really liked path to exile in this matchup. It ended up helping me a lot. Wild Defiance helped me win game 3.
Round 3: Ad Nauseam: 2-1:
This is another race. Essentially by turn 4 I either have it or I dont. Luckily, I had it They don't do much post SB. And Ive played against the deck enough to know how it works. I was also able to win some counter wars in game 2 and 3, that allowed me to push through.
Round 4: UR Twin: 2-1:
I swear, these 2 wins were the weirdest, ugliest, slimmiest wins I have ever had with infect. Game 1, I was down to 5 life, and my opponent was at 13. She had answers to everything the whole game. Either a burn spell or a counter spell. It was horrendous. I was down to my last turn. I had a Noble in play, and I cast a Mook. It was countered. I then cast a distortion strike. It too was cancelled. I had 2x BI left in my hand. I decided to swing and pray she would not black. Well...she didnt block, and I had 2 mana open and enough GY cards to delve and hit for 13. It was glorious, and ugly.
Game 3, I went with my invisible stalker beatdown plan. My opponent had no idea what was going on. Without the help of Wild Defiance, I was able to swing with enough regular damage, quickly. To take her down. It was awesome...and sad
Round 5: Goryo's Vengeance: 0-2:
I have to admit, I was not fully ready for this deck. He had all the right draws. And I fell into the Blood Moon trap on turn 2 in game 2. I feel like this deck will get a nerfing come July 13. It just has to be stopped.
Round 6: Naya CoCo Kiki Twin: 2-1:
Yes, you read that right. This guy made a naya coco tin deck with kiki, and a bunch of white winnies with EB effects he could abuse. It was hard to navigate. But with the help of Dispel, Path, and Distortion strike, I was able to swing in and go for the kill. Very very close game.
Round 7: Naya Zoo 1-Drop: 1-2:
This was my last shot at top 8. i was already 6th, and it didnt make sense to ID with the current rankings. I usually like this matchup, and game 1 was a breeze. Game 2 I had a weak starting had and it bit me in the ass in the end. Game 3 I was doing pretty well, however two turns in a row, when I went for the kill, he had the right answer, and I did not have enough mana to counter it. 1-drop still has a short clock, so in the end I lost this one.
Overall I was very happy with how my deck performed. In no way did I have easy match-ups. I absolutely LOVED Invisible Stalker. I would swap my Glistner's out for it, and then remove my distortion strikes as well. I almost want to MB the stalkers and just get rid of glistner elf. It would essentially free up 6 slots in my SB. Glistner elf is only mediocre in most games.
@Kovo
Interesting concept of running invisible stalker, since it makes sense that the opponent will be fetching stuff untap or burning his life away without care and suddenly out comes a stalker to end the game on normal damage.
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Standard : What is Stand-tart
Modern : Huh?
EDH : UBGW Thrasios / Tymna Combo UBGW // GRW Mayael Big Stuff GRW // GU Edric Timewalkers GU
Juza BUG list from singapore, he came ninth. Black is only for stinger and sort of dismember but with only one source, it doesn't help much there. Interesting that he elected to not go with decay or discard.
Two Infect lists made top 8 of the premier IQ yesterday and one of them made top 4. There was another Infect guy who placed 10th. It's a pretty good weekend for us Infect guys, I guess. I'm currently on the 2 Path to Exile main and 4 Geist of Saint Traft in the sideboard and loving it. It feels pretty good when my opponent gets a turn 2 Tasigur and I immediately Path it.
Well I'm not sure where to start with my PPTQ feedback. Unfortunately, I went 2-4, which I'm super disappointed about. I started really well, beating Tron round 1 and Burn round 2, then I just tanked for the rest of the day, throwing away 2 matches that I should easily have won.
Round 1: 2-0 vs. Tron
Won on turn 3 game 1, and turn 4 game 2. Not much to say really, it's an easy match up and I had good draws that he couldn't interact with. Easy 1-0.
Round 2: 2-1 vs. Burn
Really difficult match up for us, so I was really happy to get the win. Games 1 and 2 were just about who was on the play, and we split those games, but game 3 was a doozy! I mulliganed to 5, he played an Eidolon of turn 2, and Molten Rained my Breeding Pool turn 3, and I killed him on turn 5 Played a Spellskite turn 2, Blighted Agent turn 3, and cast a lethal Become Immense on turn 5 at 7 life. Very happy to be 2-0.
Round 3: 0-2 vs. Grixis Twin
I didn't play this game particularly well. I didn't misplay at all, but I was a little impatient and went in on my pump spells too early game one, which threw off the way I wanted to sequence my next few turns. He Bolted and Remanded my first few threats and then comboed me out game one, then blew up 2 of my Hierarchs while I was struggling for mana game 2 and just beat me down with Tasigur and Snapcaster Mage. He was a good player and deserved to win. A little disappointed with how I played, but not too unhappy at 2-1.
Round 4: 1-2 vs. Combo Elves
A match up I hadn't prepared for at all, and it really showed, because I didn't really know what he was doing. I didn't think that he'd have Spellskites game one, so I pumped my guy and he cast chord in repsonse, which gave him the time to set up a lethal attack. Game two, I got in a bit of early damage while he set up his mana and chorded for his Spellskite, but I targeted it with Vines next turn allowing me to pump my Blighted Agent for lethal. Game three I punted super hard, and lost with the win on board/in hand. I was sitting on a Dismember for a while, not really knowing what to target and when, and he tapped out to cast an Ezuri, Renegade Leader with an Elvish Archdruid on board and the ability to pump his guys and swing for lethal. I had a Blighted Agent on board and a lethal Become Immense in hand, but for some unknown reason I let the Ezuri resolve and he just killed me. On tilt 2-2.
Round 5: 0-2 vs. Amulet Bloom
He turn 3ed me twice in a row, once through a Nature's Claim on his Amulet. Literally nothing I could do. Really on tilt 2-3.
Round 6: 1-2 vs. Infect
Again, very disappointed to lose this match up, as I'm usually very comfortable playing the mirror, and I punted another game 3 with the win on board/in hand. Game one we both had Spellskites and one attacker, but he had two Hierarchs to my one, so he just had a faster clock than me when neither of us could really interact. Game 2 I was on the play which mattered a lot, and outraced him back. Game 3 was pretty grindy, but I managed to set up the win with a Become Immense on my Blighted Agent with Spell Pierce back up, but I only had 4 cards in my graveyard when I thought I had 5. I'd already announced my spell so I was forced to pay for it, which left me tapped out. He Dispelled it, untapped, and swung back for lethal. Tilt isn't even the word 2-4.
I actually really liked my list, it felt really smooth in every match, and the Twin match up felt a lot more comfortable than it has. If I played like a competent Magic player, and not a complete buffoon, then I could easily have gone 4-2 with it, which I would have been very pleased with. My poor finish was definitely my own fault, and not a fault of the deck or of variance. I liked the two Spellskites in the main, but I didn't draw Serum Visions often enough to judge it really. Might of Old Krosa is easily our worst pump spell right now, but I don't think you can cut many more without being slowing yourself down too much.
The sideboard seemed pretty solid too. I had a pretty solid plan for most of my matches, and felt like my options were diverse enough to cover most of the meta. I only brought in the Sieges game 3 against Burn, and I never drew it, so unfortunately I don't have anything to say about that. Didn't see any Jund which it was mainly there for.
Sorry to hear about the losses, but thanks for reporting back! It's good to hear that the deck seems to be running mostly smooth for you. I'm thinking of taking my version to an FNM in August to give winning a Serum Visions a shot! That way I can put it in the deck as I own none haha. I was also lucky enough to open a Spellskite in a MM15 booster the other day, so I might put that in the deck too. Although I have only one of them, so I'm not too sure if it will be worth throwing in there.
Do you consider Might of Old Krosa to be the worst pump in this config because of sorcery speed for +4/+4? If so, would it be worth replacing with Giant Growth as a compromise? If it is hard to play Krosa at sorcery speed, then using it as an instant is worse than using Giant Growth. But maybe that isn't why you don't like Giant Growth?
Also using Vines on an opponents Kite is genius! I never thought of that haha. Do you generally try and pump for lethal all on one turn or do damage as as when you see a chance? Perhaps it depends on what you are playing against? I really need to play my deck more against some of the common Modern decks before I jump right into an FNM!
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Modern Infect Affinity Grixis Shadow Jekai Nahiri Naya Burn 8-Whack
Hey guys, I have been reading a lot this forum lately and I am really enjoying the discussion you are having here!
First of all, I am a budget player, never paid more than 10$ for a card (my inkmoth back in the time they didn't cost an arm and a leg). Therefore, the UG version of the deck is way over my budget. Hence, I'm playing Mono Green.
Here's the list I was running (based mostly on Ultra_Magnus deck as seen on mtgtop8):
First of all, should I had a second pendelhaven? I have to say that I am always afraid of getting both in the same game, which would suck. Also, having 4 sylvan scrying now, if I really need it, I just have to search for it... (Also the fact that this card which I paid 5$ last year cost now 15$ really makes me wonder why I haven't bought 2 back then)
Also, should I play a second become immense? This is also another card that having two in my hand would be a pain in the ass. However, with 4 sylvan scrying and 4 gitaxian probe to full my graveyard, I would really like to have at least one become immense in my hand when I want to go for the kill! (If yes, what card should I cut for it? I would say a mutagenic growth maybe?)
Another card that I am sure you will notice that isn't there is Spellskite. At 25$ the card, it is pretty costly (for me). Is it really worth it? Can I still manage to play without it?
I haven't played in a tournament for 8 months and I'm looking to go play one at a local shop next week, so I would like my deck to be updated to the recent meta!
I would definitely add a second Pendelhaven. In all my time playing, I've only ever drawn them both once. In addition, you can simply use the pump effect of one, and then play the second and sacrifice the first one. It only last a turn, true, but Infect is a faaaast deck. One turn is often all you need.
The second Become Immense is probably fine. I wouldn't call it necessary, but I wouldn't really call it detrimental, either. Is there a metagame reason you're maindecking Dismember? If not, perhaps you could cut one for the Become Immense and cut the other for the fourth Groundswell?
Spellskite is good for protection, but you're running more creatures than what typical lists are (16 vs 12). While it is a slight downgrade, you could simply focus on having a backup creature instead of using Spellskite to protect your creature. I'm sure it'll be fine, especially at an FNM level.
@ kovo:
i have some question for u. glad to see that u play a similar deck list like me. i like the path to exiles and especially the invisible stalker, one of my most favorite magic cards. congrats to your 5:2 pptq finish. allways happy when i see infects making good results.
i playtesting a lot on xmage and here are coming my questions (sry for my english):
1.do you really think playing Path MB is necessery, not asking because also in tom ross recently published premium article on starcity games he have them in SB slot with temple garden, but at least in my meta i play a lot vs combo decks like twin, bloom etc. somehow i have the feeling that much more often i miss a pumpspell then that path pays out.
2. im quite new to infect and it seems for me that distortion strike should move at least in the SB. thinking about to take it out completely. i agree on your opinion that glistener elf is very often not so usefull (at least turn one he takes out 1 bolt/removal) so that said, i think we dont need distortion strike for our other infect creatures so badly. (or maybe im just lucky that im not facing so often lingering souls atm.)
3. is it really necessery to play 4 become immense? i think 3 is also fine
so im thinking about removing
-2 path to exile (to SB)
-1 temple garden (to SB)
-2 distortion strike (to SB or completely)
-1 become immense
-1 gitaxian probe
adding
+1 blue basic land (against all the blood moon shinanigens. not beeing able to play our blue agent after blood moon really sucks
+4 groundswell
+ maybe 2 rancor ? im not shure about this last 2 slots. maybe spell pierce and a 4. mutagenic growth. or maybe the 4. probe.? mhh
would love to hear ur opinion. thx in advance. love this forum. reading everyday every post and it helps me a lot in understanding inffect. thx guys
p.s i would love to read about your sideboard plans of your decks. how u sideboard against the different matchups. if u could write something down i would be very happy.
Id love to answer your questions
I really like path in the MB. MB spellksites are a lot more common now. And a spellskite game 1 is pretty much over for us. So path allows us to potentially deal with those. It also helps against twin game 1. Or removes pesky creatures in CoCo.
Distortion strike is almost always important only in game 1. Since elf is MB. DS should also be MB. In my opinion. If we are playing aggro decks like CoCo or Affinity, I think DS is also very important. Worst case, we swap it out for wild defiance, and we swap our elf for invisible stalker.
As for Become Immense, I think it depends on how many MB pump spells you have. You almost always want at least 1 BI per game. 2 is the limit. More than 2 is kinda *****ty. Nevertheless, I like my 4x BIs right now. Its perhaps more personal taste.
I strongly recommend you avoid the island. I understand you want to avoid blood moon. But unless you fetch for it before blood moon comes down, its a bad land to have in your opening hand. I can keep a 7 card hand with 1 forest, elf, and pump. I cant really keep a hand with elf, pump, and an island. If you are worried about blood moon. Make sure to side in enough enchantment removal and spell pierce.
As for SB strategies. Its hard to say. I just started playing this current SB. I bring in Invisible stalker quite often. In fact, If I could, I would make Invisible stalker MB, and remove the elf completely from the 75 cards. But I am not that ballsy right now.
Hope this helps! Ask more questions if you want more specifics.
Just quickly, casting Vines of Vastwood on an opposing Spellskite doesn't actually prevent them from redirecting your pump spells, since you are the one who controls those pump spells, not your opponent.
However in a desperate situation, you can still try it and see if your opponent knows. Cast your Vines on their Spellskite, then very confidently cast your pumps on your creature and see if they let you get away with it. If your opponent asks any questions, just get them to read Vines. Mind you, if you do get away with it and win, that might be considered a tad unsportsmanlike lol
Just quickly, casting Vines of Vastwood on an opposing Spellskite doesn't actually prevent them from redirecting your pump spells, since you are the one who controls those pump spells, not your opponent.
However in a desperate situation, you can still try it and see if your opponent knows. Cast your Vines on their Spellskite, then very confidently cast your pumps on your creature and see if they let you get away with it. If your opponent asks any questions, just get them to read Vines. Mind you, if you do get away with it and win, that might be considered a tad unsportsmanlike lol
Ok just re-read Vines and you are right lol I sort of confused myself with the text.
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Modern Infect Affinity Grixis Shadow Jekai Nahiri Naya Burn 8-Whack
I would definitely add a second Pendelhaven. In all my time playing, I've only ever drawn them both once. In addition, you can simply use the pump effect of one, and then play the second and sacrifice the first one. It only last a turn, true, but Infect is a faaaast deck. One turn is often all you need.
The second Become Immense is probably fine. I wouldn't call it necessary, but I wouldn't really call it detrimental, either. Is there a metagame reason you're maindecking Dismember? If not, perhaps you could cut one for the Become Immense and cut the other for the fourth Groundswell?
Spellskite is good for protection, but you're running more creatures than what typical lists are (16 vs 12). While it is a slight downgrade, you could simply focus on having a backup creature instead of using Spellskite to protect your creature. I'm sure it'll be fine, especially at an FNM level.
Thank you for you fast reply! I will try to take my hand on a second pendelhaven and try it out!
As for the dismember, it was in case of spellskite or other anoying creature my opponent could have. However vs certain type of deck it could be a dead draw, hence I think I will put them too in the SB and adding the fourth groundswell and second become immense instead!
I removed the 2 postmortem lunge for the SB... I haven't even tried them out yet. They seem like a pleasant effect of surprise! I might try them instead of the two tormod's crypt... I only used them once and I didn't even draw any and got combo out...
Henning has all four Ichorclaw Myr in the main, which is rather odd considering that he's also playing an Overgrown Tomb to cast Abrupt Decay out of the sideboard. The rest of his list is rather stock, with notable choices being Rancor, Ranger's Guile in the sideboard and all four Spell Pierce in the sideboard.
Splashing a color just for sideboard cards/removal. I think the best would be white for Path, Stony Silence and Rest in Peace among others, but red for Grudge and black for Decay/Dismember/Thoughtseize like Henning did seem reasonable as well.
Opinions?
Re. Bryan Henning's list: The 4x Ichorclaw Myr is an interesting choice, but it does make some sense seeing as though the deck runs Rancor but less protection. I wonder how the Abrupt Decay performed.
Re. Jason Collin's list: I don't like running an Island mainboard or only running 1x Become Immense. B-Huge is such an incredible card that I feel as though running less than 3x is less than optimal. The 3x Spell Pierce mainboard is pretty interesting; I'd like to hear how that worked out for him. Anecdotally I ran 2x Spell Pierce last week and found it relevant. I am also a bit curious to see how the 0/3 split of Wild Defiance performed.
Re. Nan Johnson's list: I am not a big fan of Sylvan Scrying any more (too slow for my tastes) but it is a 1-of so that's probably fine. As you pointed out the rest of the list is pretty stock.
Re. your other points:
-Maindeck Spell Pierce: Right now I am playtesting a 1:1 split of Spell Pierce and Dismember mainboard and liking it. Pierce is incredibly relevant in the format and being a 1 mana counter is great for a deck that hinges on 1-drops and early plays. Dismember is basically to kill off Melira and opposing Spellskites. I think if you ran Wild Defiance mainboard then the relevance of Dismember drops significantly (i.e.: WD is an "out" of sorts to Melira and Spellskite) such that you could run 2x Pierce. I personally would probably not considering doing more than 2 Pierce mainboard (you don't want to draw multiples) but hey, if someone wants to playtest 2-4 MB then I am all for hearing about it.
-1 mana counters: Pretty much essential. Our clock is very fast and we want to be able to play a threat and either protect it or stop what our opponent is doing for a turn. For example, in the past tournament I played in, I faced against Grishoalbrand. I was able to drop a Glistener Elf, then the following turn counter the Goryo's Vengeance (which it was revealed my opponent could have easily comboed out), then with a Gitaxian Probe I knew the path was clear to go for a Turn 3 kill.
-Re. splashing a 3rd color: I am intrigued by this concept but would like to see some playtesting. Here are my initial thoughts:
White: Pros: Can play some very hateful SB cards (Stony Silence, Rest in Piece). Can use Noble Hierarch dork mana to cast spells very efficiently (including Apostle's Blessing) but also things like Path to Exile, which is relevant with CoCo in the format. Cons: For as powerful as some of the cards are, is it really necessary to muck up the mana base? Apostle's Blessing is already easy to cast, Dismember may just be a competent replacement to Path to Exile, and the deck already has good SB hate cards (e.g., Hurkyl's Recall over Stony Silence). Assessment: Unsure at this time, leaning towards no.
Black: Pros: Access to discard and Abrupt Decay, as well as Plague Stinger is you really want more evasive infect creatures. Cons: Harder to cast BUG colors since it does not pair well with Noble Hierarch. Assessment: Intriguing. I don't know if discard is needed with reactive counters. However, Abrupt Decay seems ridiculously relevant to kill off Melira, Spellskites, Twin creatures, and the like. If I were to splash black I would probably splash the removal but not the discard (due to having blue counters).
Red: Unsure. Normally Lightning Bolt is a gimme card but in a deck that wins through Infect damage this may not be an auto-include. Assault Strobe seems cool. Haven't taken the time to consider what red offers in the SB. May be difficult to cast Red due to Noble Hierarch.
I think of the possible color combinations, BUG may be superior to Bant or Temur colors.
Hi guys! I made it to Day 2 of GP Singapore but didn't money finish, placed 109th out of 1100+ players.
Round 1 and 2: Awardes Byes
Round 3: 1-2 GW Hatebears
Round 4: 1-2 Esper Tokens
Round 4: 2-0 MonoU Tron
Round 5: 2-0 Bant Midrange
Round 6: 2-0 Abzan Midrange
Round 7: 2-0 Abzan Company
Round 8: 2-0 Living End
Round 9: 2-0 Scapeshift
Round 10: 2-0 Affinity
Round 11: 1-2 Mardu Control
Round 12: 1-2 Temur Twin
Round 13: 2-0 Elves
Round 14: 0-2 4-color aggro with Blood Moons (ugh Japanese)
Round 15: 0-2 Naya Burn
I have to admit, I think I felt relaxed since I thought Top 128 will be getting money. :/ Ohwell. The games I lost were total blowouts anyway. Tempted to remove Twisted Image and Piracy Charm for 3x Path to Exile and 1x Temple Garden. Anyway, redeemed myself by going 4-1 in the Big Tix Modern side event and got a KTK booster box.
Also, what do you guys think of Martin Juza's BUG Infect? Really curious how he decided and came up with the list. BTW, he Intentional Drawed in the last round and dropped out of Top8.
Also, what do you guys think of Martin Juza's BUG Infect? Really curious how he decided and came up with the list.
BUG has been around since end 2012. Juza's deck is just one of those old lists with Become Immense and more fetches/Probe to support it. 4 Dismember SB shows that he doesn't take Melira or Spellskite lightly.
Tom Ross's UG has a stronger regular damage plan with maindeck Wild Defiance and Dryad Arbor. He also has more copies of Spellskites and Wild Defiance in the 75 so the double Spellskite + Wild Defiance kill is more realistic.
Re. your other points:
-Maindeck Spell Pierce: Right now I am playtesting a 1:1 split of Spell Pierce and Dismember mainboard and liking it. Pierce is incredibly relevant in the format and being a 1 mana counter is great for a deck that hinges on 1-drops and early plays. Dismember is basically to kill off Melira and opposing Spellskites. I think if you ran Wild Defiance mainboard then the relevance of Dismember drops significantly (i.e.: WD is an "out" of sorts to Melira and Spellskite) such that you could run 2x Pierce. I personally would probably not considering doing more than 2 Pierce mainboard (you don't want to draw multiples) but hey, if someone wants to playtest 2-4 MB then I am all for hearing about it.
-1 mana counters: Pretty much essential. Our clock is very fast and we want to be able to play a threat and either protect it or stop what our opponent is doing for a turn. For example, in the past tournament I played in, I faced against Grishoalbrand. I was able to drop a Glistener Elf, then the following turn counter the Goryo's Vengeance (which it was revealed my opponent could have easily comboed out), then with a Gitaxian Probe I knew the path was clear to go for a Turn 3 kill.
-Re. splashing a 3rd color: I am intrigued by this concept but would like to see some playtesting. Here are my initial thoughts:
White: Pros: Can play some very hateful SB cards (Stony Silence, Rest in Piece). Can use Noble Hierarch dork mana to cast spells very efficiently (including Apostle's Blessing) but also things like Path to Exile, which is relevant with CoCo in the format. Cons: For as powerful as some of the cards are, is it really necessary to muck up the mana base? Apostle's Blessing is already easy to cast, Dismember may just be a competent replacement to Path to Exile, and the deck already has good SB hate cards (e.g., Hurkyl's Recall over Stony Silence). Assessment: Unsure at this time, leaning towards no.
Black: Pros: Access to discard and Abrupt Decay, as well as Plague Stinger is you really want more evasive infect creatures. Cons: Harder to cast BUG colors since it does not pair well with Noble Hierarch. Assessment: Intriguing. I don't know if discard is needed with reactive counters. However, Abrupt Decay seems ridiculously relevant to kill off Melira, Spellskites, Twin creatures, and the like. If I were to splash black I would probably splash the removal but not the discard (due to having blue counters).
Red: Unsure. Normally Lightning Bolt is a gimme card but in a deck that wins through Infect damage this may not be an auto-include. Assault Strobe seems cool. Haven't taken the time to consider what red offers in the SB. May be difficult to cast Red due to Noble Hierarch.
I think of the possible color combinations, BUG may be superior to Bant or Temur colors.
I was on Pierce and Dismember in the main as well, but for me the four life off of Dismember really added up. Having a maindeck way to answer frequent 5/6 Goyfs has been feeling pretty great.
I was more surprised that Collins had seven one-mana counters. I have five in my 75 (and four might be the right number), and 4 Dispel + 3 Spell Pierce sounds like a bit too much.
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How many Wild Defiance are you guys playing in your 75? Two have been enough for me, but I've seen lots of lists with three and I'd like to know if potential clunkiness is outweighed by the power.
RUG Temur Deprive Delver
BUG Sultai Deprive Delver
I really like your list! If I had the funds, I think mine would be pretty much the same too. I did get a Spellskite in a booster yesterday, so I'm a step closer
Let us know how it plays and good luck!
I'm unfamiliar with infect and would like to ask a couple of questions.
1) Is UG infect with only Blighted Agents and Glistener Elfs now pretty much accepted as the best version of infect? The primer says that BUG is the best but I haven't seen any BUG lists put up results lately.
2) The primer says when playing against Melira to save your pumps for a 1-hit kill to avoid having your work "undone" by Melira. But Melira doesn't remove existing poison counters, so isn't it better just to get damage in while you can, then remove Melira and finish them off? Unless of course they have mana open to Chord into her or something.
BGW Junk / URB Grixis Shadow / RGB Lantern Control / WUBCBant Eldrazi
Current Legacy decks
BUG Shardless BUG / UWR Predict Miracles / RUG Canadian Thresh / WRBG 4c Loam
UB Reanimator
Bryan Henning's Infect
Jason Collins's Infect
Nan Johnson's Infect
Henning has all four Ichorclaw Myr in the main, which is rather odd considering that he's also playing an Overgrown Tomb to cast Abrupt Decay out of the sideboard. The rest of his list is rather stock, with notable choices being Rancor, Ranger's Guile in the sideboard and all four Spell Pierce in the sideboard.
Collins has three Spell Pierce in his maindeck, as well as four Dispel in the board and only one Become Immense.
Johnson has a Sylvan Scrying in the main, and that's mostly it as far as interesting things go.
What I think is worth exploring:
Opinions?
RUGTemur ScapeshiftGUR
UWRJeskai ControlRWU
UGUG InfectGU
I ran the list below:
2x Breeding Pool
2x Forest
4x Inkmoth Nexus
4x Misty Rainforest
2x Pendelhaven
1x Temple Garden
1x Verdant Catacombs
2x Windswept Heath
2x Wooded Foothills
Instant (18)
2x Apostle's Blessing
4x Become Immense
3x Might of Old Krosa
3x Mutagenic Growth
2x Path to Exile
4x Vines of Vastwood
4x Blighted Agent
4x Glistener Elf
4x Noble Hierarch
2x Spellskite
Sorcery (8)
2x Distortion Strike
4x Gitaxian Probe
2x Serum Visions
2x Dispel
4x Invisible Stalker
3x Nature's Claim
1x Path to Exile
1x Spell Pierce
1x Spellskite
3x Wild Defiance
Round 1: Storm: 2-0:
It had been a while since I played storm. So I wasn't sure what they had in store in the SB. Luckily, I had enough good draws both games, that I won the race each time. He essentially fizzled when I needed him to.
Round 2: Naya Podless CoCo: 2-1:
This was a pretty grindy match-up, but I managed to pull ahead in the end. I really liked path to exile in this matchup. It ended up helping me a lot. Wild Defiance helped me win game 3.
Round 3: Ad Nauseam: 2-1:
This is another race. Essentially by turn 4 I either have it or I dont. Luckily, I had it
Round 4: UR Twin: 2-1:
I swear, these 2 wins were the weirdest, ugliest, slimmiest wins I have ever had with infect. Game 1, I was down to 5 life, and my opponent was at 13. She had answers to everything the whole game. Either a burn spell or a counter spell. It was horrendous. I was down to my last turn. I had a Noble in play, and I cast a Mook. It was countered. I then cast a distortion strike. It too was cancelled. I had 2x BI left in my hand. I decided to swing and pray she would not black. Well...she didnt block, and I had 2 mana open and enough GY cards to delve and hit for 13. It was glorious, and ugly.
Game 3, I went with my invisible stalker beatdown plan. My opponent had no idea what was going on. Without the help of Wild Defiance, I was able to swing with enough regular damage, quickly. To take her down. It was awesome...and sad
Round 5: Goryo's Vengeance: 0-2:
I have to admit, I was not fully ready for this deck. He had all the right draws. And I fell into the Blood Moon trap on turn 2 in game 2. I feel like this deck will get a nerfing come July 13. It just has to be stopped.
Round 6: Naya CoCo Kiki Twin: 2-1:
Yes, you read that right. This guy made a naya coco tin deck with kiki, and a bunch of white winnies with EB effects he could abuse. It was hard to navigate. But with the help of Dispel, Path, and Distortion strike, I was able to swing in and go for the kill. Very very close game.
Round 7: Naya Zoo 1-Drop: 1-2:
This was my last shot at top 8. i was already 6th, and it didnt make sense to ID with the current rankings. I usually like this matchup, and game 1 was a breeze. Game 2 I had a weak starting had and it bit me in the ass in the end. Game 3 I was doing pretty well, however two turns in a row, when I went for the kill, he had the right answer, and I did not have enough mana to counter it. 1-drop still has a short clock, so in the end I lost this one.
Overall I was very happy with how my deck performed. In no way did I have easy match-ups. I absolutely LOVED Invisible Stalker. I would swap my Glistner's out for it, and then remove my distortion strikes as well. I almost want to MB the stalkers and just get rid of glistner elf. It would essentially free up 6 slots in my SB. Glistner elf is only mediocre in most games.
RUG Temur Deprive Delver
BUG Sultai Deprive Delver
Interesting concept of running invisible stalker, since it makes sense that the opponent will be fetching stuff untap or burning his life away without care and suddenly out comes a stalker to end the game on normal damage.
Modern : Huh?
EDH : UBGW Thrasios / Tymna Combo UBGW // GRW Mayael Big Stuff GRW // GU Edric Timewalkers GU
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Glistener Elf
4 Blighted Agent
4 Plague Stinger
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Might of Old Krosa
4 Vines of Vastwood
4 Groundswell
2 Mutagenic Growth
3 Become Immense
3 Apostle's Blessing
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Windswept Heath
2 Breeding Pool
1 Overgrown Tomb
4 Inkmoth Nexus
2 Pendelhaven
2 Forest
60 Cards
3 Dispel
2 Spell Pierce
2 Twisted Image
2 Spellskite
2 Wild Defiance
UG Infect
Modern
UG Infect
GW Infect
EDH
WB Teysa, Orzhov Scion
B Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon
Sorry to hear about the losses, but thanks for reporting back! It's good to hear that the deck seems to be running mostly smooth for you. I'm thinking of taking my version to an FNM in August to give winning a Serum Visions a shot! That way I can put it in the deck as I own none haha. I was also lucky enough to open a Spellskite in a MM15 booster the other day, so I might put that in the deck too. Although I have only one of them, so I'm not too sure if it will be worth throwing in there.
Do you consider Might of Old Krosa to be the worst pump in this config because of sorcery speed for +4/+4? If so, would it be worth replacing with Giant Growth as a compromise? If it is hard to play Krosa at sorcery speed, then using it as an instant is worse than using Giant Growth. But maybe that isn't why you don't like Giant Growth?
Also using Vines on an opponents Kite is genius! I never thought of that haha. Do you generally try and pump for lethal all on one turn or do damage as as when you see a chance? Perhaps it depends on what you are playing against? I really need to play my deck more against some of the common Modern decks before I jump right into an FNM!
First of all, I am a budget player, never paid more than 10$ for a card (my inkmoth back in the time they didn't cost an arm and a leg). Therefore, the UG version of the deck is way over my budget. Hence, I'm playing Mono Green.
Here's the list I was running (based mostly on Ultra_Magnus deck as seen on mtgtop8):
4x Glistener Elf
4x Ichorclaw Myr
2x Necropede
Instants (22)
4x Apostle's Blessing
1x Become Immense
2x Dismember
3x Giant Growth
4x Groundswell
4x Mutagenic Growth
4x Vines of Vastwood
2x Sylvan Scrying
Enchantments (4)
4x Rancor
Lands (22)
13x Forest
4x Cathedral of War
4x Inkmoth Nexus
1x Pendelhaven
1x Creeping Corrosion
2x Dismember
2x Guttural Response
4x Nature's Claim
2x Necropede
2x Tormod's Crypt
2x Wild Defiance
After all my reading on this forum, I have come with a (I hope) better version and I would like to have your commentary and advice about it:
4x Glistener Elf
4x Ichorclaw Myr
Instants (22)
4x Apostle's Blessing
1x Become Immense
2x Dismember
4x Gitaxian Probe
3x Groundswell
4x Mutagenic Growth
4x Vines of Vastwood
4x Sylvan Scrying
Enchantments (4)
4x Rancor
Lands (22)
13x Forest
4x Cathedral of War
4x Inkmoth Nexus
1x Pendelhaven
1x Creeping Corrosion
2x Dismember
2x Guttural Response
4x Nature's Claim
2x Postmortem Lunge
2x Tormod's Crypt
2x Wild Defiance
First of all, should I had a second pendelhaven? I have to say that I am always afraid of getting both in the same game, which would suck. Also, having 4 sylvan scrying now, if I really need it, I just have to search for it... (Also the fact that this card which I paid 5$ last year cost now 15$ really makes me wonder why I haven't bought 2 back then)
Also, should I play a second become immense? This is also another card that having two in my hand would be a pain in the ass. However, with 4 sylvan scrying and 4 gitaxian probe to full my graveyard, I would really like to have at least one become immense in my hand when I want to go for the kill! (If yes, what card should I cut for it? I would say a mutagenic growth maybe?)
Another card that I am sure you will notice that isn't there is Spellskite. At 25$ the card, it is pretty costly (for me). Is it really worth it? Can I still manage to play without it?
I haven't played in a tournament for 8 months and I'm looking to go play one at a local shop next week, so I would like my deck to be updated to the recent meta!
Thx in advance!
I would definitely add a second Pendelhaven. In all my time playing, I've only ever drawn them both once. In addition, you can simply use the pump effect of one, and then play the second and sacrifice the first one. It only last a turn, true, but Infect is a faaaast deck. One turn is often all you need.
The second Become Immense is probably fine. I wouldn't call it necessary, but I wouldn't really call it detrimental, either. Is there a metagame reason you're maindecking Dismember? If not, perhaps you could cut one for the Become Immense and cut the other for the fourth Groundswell?
Spellskite is good for protection, but you're running more creatures than what typical lists are (16 vs 12). While it is a slight downgrade, you could simply focus on having a backup creature instead of using Spellskite to protect your creature. I'm sure it'll be fine, especially at an FNM level.
Mardu Burn
Monogreen Stompy
Legacy
Burn
Pauper
Dimir Flicker
Monowhite Tokens
Id love to answer your questions
I really like path in the MB. MB spellksites are a lot more common now. And a spellskite game 1 is pretty much over for us. So path allows us to potentially deal with those. It also helps against twin game 1. Or removes pesky creatures in CoCo.
Distortion strike is almost always important only in game 1. Since elf is MB. DS should also be MB. In my opinion. If we are playing aggro decks like CoCo or Affinity, I think DS is also very important. Worst case, we swap it out for wild defiance, and we swap our elf for invisible stalker.
As for Become Immense, I think it depends on how many MB pump spells you have. You almost always want at least 1 BI per game. 2 is the limit. More than 2 is kinda *****ty. Nevertheless, I like my 4x BIs right now. Its perhaps more personal taste.
I strongly recommend you avoid the island. I understand you want to avoid blood moon. But unless you fetch for it before blood moon comes down, its a bad land to have in your opening hand. I can keep a 7 card hand with 1 forest, elf, and pump. I cant really keep a hand with elf, pump, and an island. If you are worried about blood moon. Make sure to side in enough enchantment removal and spell pierce.
As for SB strategies. Its hard to say. I just started playing this current SB. I bring in Invisible stalker quite often. In fact, If I could, I would make Invisible stalker MB, and remove the elf completely from the 75 cards. But I am not that ballsy right now.
Hope this helps! Ask more questions if you want more specifics.
RUG Temur Deprive Delver
BUG Sultai Deprive Delver
However in a desperate situation, you can still try it and see if your opponent knows. Cast your Vines on their Spellskite, then very confidently cast your pumps on your creature and see if they let you get away with it. If your opponent asks any questions, just get them to read Vines. Mind you, if you do get away with it and win, that might be considered a tad unsportsmanlike lol
Ok just re-read Vines and you are right lol I sort of confused myself with the text.
Thank you for you fast reply! I will try to take my hand on a second pendelhaven and try it out!
As for the dismember, it was in case of spellskite or other anoying creature my opponent could have. However vs certain type of deck it could be a dead draw, hence I think I will put them too in the SB and adding the fourth groundswell and second become immense instead!
4x Glistener Elf
4x Ichorclaw Myr
Instants (22)
4x Apostle's Blessing
2x Become Immense
4x Gitaxian Probe
4x Groundswell
4x Mutagenic Growth
4x Vines of Vastwood
4x Sylvan Scrying
Enchantments (4)
4x Rancor
Lands (22)
12x Forest
4x Cathedral of War
4x Inkmoth Nexus
2x Pendelhaven
1x Creeping Corrosion
4x Dismember
2x Guttural Response
4x Nature's Claim
2x Tormod's Crypt
2x Wild Defiance
I removed the 2 postmortem lunge for the SB... I haven't even tried them out yet. They seem like a pleasant effect of surprise! I might try them instead of the two tormod's crypt... I only used them once and I didn't even draw any and got combo out...
Re. Bryan Henning's list: The 4x Ichorclaw Myr is an interesting choice, but it does make some sense seeing as though the deck runs Rancor but less protection. I wonder how the Abrupt Decay performed.
Re. Jason Collin's list: I don't like running an Island mainboard or only running 1x Become Immense. B-Huge is such an incredible card that I feel as though running less than 3x is less than optimal. The 3x Spell Pierce mainboard is pretty interesting; I'd like to hear how that worked out for him. Anecdotally I ran 2x Spell Pierce last week and found it relevant. I am also a bit curious to see how the 0/3 split of Wild Defiance performed.
Re. Nan Johnson's list: I am not a big fan of Sylvan Scrying any more (too slow for my tastes) but it is a 1-of so that's probably fine. As you pointed out the rest of the list is pretty stock.
Re. your other points:
-Maindeck Spell Pierce: Right now I am playtesting a 1:1 split of Spell Pierce and Dismember mainboard and liking it. Pierce is incredibly relevant in the format and being a 1 mana counter is great for a deck that hinges on 1-drops and early plays. Dismember is basically to kill off Melira and opposing Spellskites. I think if you ran Wild Defiance mainboard then the relevance of Dismember drops significantly (i.e.: WD is an "out" of sorts to Melira and Spellskite) such that you could run 2x Pierce. I personally would probably not considering doing more than 2 Pierce mainboard (you don't want to draw multiples) but hey, if someone wants to playtest 2-4 MB then I am all for hearing about it.
-1 mana counters: Pretty much essential. Our clock is very fast and we want to be able to play a threat and either protect it or stop what our opponent is doing for a turn. For example, in the past tournament I played in, I faced against Grishoalbrand. I was able to drop a Glistener Elf, then the following turn counter the Goryo's Vengeance (which it was revealed my opponent could have easily comboed out), then with a Gitaxian Probe I knew the path was clear to go for a Turn 3 kill.
-Re. splashing a 3rd color: I am intrigued by this concept but would like to see some playtesting. Here are my initial thoughts:
White: Pros: Can play some very hateful SB cards (Stony Silence, Rest in Piece). Can use Noble Hierarch dork mana to cast spells very efficiently (including Apostle's Blessing) but also things like Path to Exile, which is relevant with CoCo in the format. Cons: For as powerful as some of the cards are, is it really necessary to muck up the mana base? Apostle's Blessing is already easy to cast, Dismember may just be a competent replacement to Path to Exile, and the deck already has good SB hate cards (e.g., Hurkyl's Recall over Stony Silence). Assessment: Unsure at this time, leaning towards no.
Black: Pros: Access to discard and Abrupt Decay, as well as Plague Stinger is you really want more evasive infect creatures. Cons: Harder to cast BUG colors since it does not pair well with Noble Hierarch. Assessment: Intriguing. I don't know if discard is needed with reactive counters. However, Abrupt Decay seems ridiculously relevant to kill off Melira, Spellskites, Twin creatures, and the like. If I were to splash black I would probably splash the removal but not the discard (due to having blue counters).
Red: Unsure. Normally Lightning Bolt is a gimme card but in a deck that wins through Infect damage this may not be an auto-include. Assault Strobe seems cool. Haven't taken the time to consider what red offers in the SB. May be difficult to cast Red due to Noble Hierarch.
I think of the possible color combinations, BUG may be superior to Bant or Temur colors.
Round 1 and 2: Awardes Byes
Round 3: 1-2 GW Hatebears
Round 4: 1-2 Esper Tokens
Round 4: 2-0 MonoU Tron
Round 5: 2-0 Bant Midrange
Round 6: 2-0 Abzan Midrange
Round 7: 2-0 Abzan Company
Round 8: 2-0 Living End
Round 9: 2-0 Scapeshift
Round 10: 2-0 Affinity
Round 11: 1-2 Mardu Control
Round 12: 1-2 Temur Twin
Round 13: 2-0 Elves
Round 14: 0-2 4-color aggro with Blood Moons (ugh Japanese)
Round 15: 0-2 Naya Burn
I have to admit, I think I felt relaxed since I thought Top 128 will be getting money. :/ Ohwell. The games I lost were total blowouts anyway. Tempted to remove Twisted Image and Piracy Charm for 3x Path to Exile and 1x Temple Garden. Anyway, redeemed myself by going 4-1 in the Big Tix Modern side event and got a KTK booster box.
Also, what do you guys think of Martin Juza's BUG Infect? Really curious how he decided and came up with the list. BTW, he Intentional Drawed in the last round and dropped out of Top8.
What was the final list you took there?
RUG Temur Deprive Delver
BUG Sultai Deprive Delver
Tom Ross's UG has a stronger regular damage plan with maindeck Wild Defiance and Dryad Arbor. He also has more copies of Spellskites and Wild Defiance in the 75 so the double Spellskite + Wild Defiance kill is more realistic.
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Big Johnny.
I was on Pierce and Dismember in the main as well, but for me the four life off of Dismember really added up. Having a maindeck way to answer frequent 5/6 Goyfs has been feeling pretty great.
I was more surprised that Collins had seven one-mana counters. I have five in my 75 (and four might be the right number), and 4 Dispel + 3 Spell Pierce sounds like a bit too much.
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How many Wild Defiance are you guys playing in your 75? Two have been enough for me, but I've seen lots of lists with three and I'd like to know if potential clunkiness is outweighed by the power.
RUGTemur ScapeshiftGUR
UWRJeskai ControlRWU
UGUG InfectGU