Speaking of options, somebody recommended me to try out Simic Charm as well. A bit demanding in terms of mana (yes, 2cc and UG is something I think is troublesome), but it has a bit of everything we need:
1st mode: Pump for damage
2nd mode: Protection from removal (can blank Electrolyze)
3rd mode: Temporary removal if you think you can kill that turn.
My current list is still the one from my recent tournaments a few pages back, except 4 Rapid Hybridization in place of Dismembers. Gotta finalize before GP Singapore next week. :))
Im wondering the 1 skite and the two sieges should go SB in place for 3x groundswell. I figure game 1 is important to win, and siege just slows that down.
Tom 'The Boss' Ross has finally posted a new infect list over at SCG, after playing other decks in recent tournaments. The list is inspired by Aaron Barich's deck, with Geist of Saint Traft in the sideboard.
It is great to see the return of Groundswell in the deck, compared with his pantheon list, and he is even running more of them than Might of Old Krosa! He is running 1 less Become Immense. There is no Wild Defiance in the list either. I tend to have a love/hate relationship with that card, sometimes it is amazing, and sometimes it just gets stuck in your hand. He is also running 3 Serum Visions, which is similar to the old Kelvin Chew deck that made the Top 8 of Pro Tour Return to Ravnica, which ran a lot of dig.
Tom mentions that he really enjoyed playing with Path to Exile as an alternative to cards like Dismember, which is interesting considering our recent discussions. Of course Geist of Saint Traft is also no doubt very enjoyable to play with in certain match-ups. I saw Aaron Barich on camera cast it on turn 2 with Noble Hierarch against 4 color control, which I can imagine that would be an enjoyable experience
It will be interesting to see how the deck evolves from here.
It might actually be the exact list that Aaron Barich ran at GP Charlotte, where he was at 8-0 at one point. Tom mentions that he spoke to Aaron, so I am guessing that Tom probably tried it out with no or few changes, and it will evolve from here.
Super interesting list! I'm not a premium subscriber, so I won't be able to read the article for a little while, unless there's some other way to read it.
I like moving up to 2 Spellskites in the main, and I've actually added the second to my list in place of the second Siege. Spellskite is great against both Jund and Twin, which are two massive players in the meta right now, and serves a similar function to Siege anyway. I think 1 Siege in the main is enough, since it is a bit slow and expensive, and you're not always looking to tap out for it game one. I'm currently on 1 main, 1 board, but I'm considering adding a second to the board.
Path in the sideboard is really cool. I'm not a massive fan of sideboarding the Geists, but if you're already doing that, then running a couple of Paths as well solves a lot of problems.
I'm also not a fan of the Serum Visions. 3 seems like so many to me. Why is it necessary to play that many?
Also interesting to note the lack of Distortion Strikes. I've been thinking of taking those out too, since creature heavy decks are less prevalent at the moment, but I'm not sure what to replace them with. Suggestions would be appreciated.
I like the idea of having 2x Spellskite main and doing a 1/1 split of Monastery Siege main/sideboard. 2x Monastery Siege mainboard might be overkill for a deck whose G1 goal is to go over the top as quickly as possible. Siege does not do that - in fact I'd argue it is better for longer, grindier matches which are more common G2 and G3.
I playtested 1x Rapid Hybridization mainboard last night and was not impressed with it in that role. As stated above, G1 it seems like we want to race as quickly as possible and RH does not synergize with that strategy. It may be better to come out of the SB for longer matches where you aren't winning on Turn 2/3/4.
Still not sure what to make of the Wild Defiance/Monastery Siege split. More playtesting is required.
Because of my confusion over Wild Defiance, I don't really know what to make of Dryad Arbor these days. A card that was already questionable is worse in a deck that doesn't include Wild Defiance.
Not sure what to make of the Serum Visions either. I don't have a premium account to see what was mentioned about their inclusion into the deck. I did see someone state in a prior post that it may well have been a copy of one of the GP Charlotte decks, though I haven't tracked down that list to confirm. I personally feel like Sleight of Hand is better for this deck than Serum Visions, but then again I'm not the pro.
Look forward to getting some playtesting in for mainboard Spell Pierce (1-2x, undecided as of now) this weekend. Will report in with results.
From the current interest, I can expect these decks: Jeskai control, Grixis Delver, Scapeshift, 2-3x Burn, Tron, and Affinity. Now that I see the meta spelled out I realize Grafdigger's Cage will be completely useless. With this predictable meta, what would be suggested as a substitute?
I still really like DS. It has won me plenty of games. Where a blocker previously existed, I made it irrelevant by casting distortion strike first, followed by any number of pump spells.
@Kovo: I too still like Distortion Strike. Without it, Glistener Elf becomes much weaker. One of my favorite (and most common) lines of play is a Glistener Elf in play alongside a Noble Hierach (or Pendelhaven), cast Distortion Strike, get them for 3 poison, next turn attack again, and with a single +4/+4 pump there is your 10 damage. It happens fairly regularly from my experience, actually.
@JoshB8116: I did not think of Serum Visions in that context but it does make some sense. I am finding myself more and more hesitant to drop an Infect creature without mana open for a protection spell these days, which means less Glistener Elf Turn 1 on the draw. I really wish Serum Visions let you pick out the card like Sleight of Hand, though. I feel like Serum Visions is a great Turn 1 play and far less impactful thereafter.
Just got back into Modern infect and I was hoping the forum could give me some help.
Has the meta shifted away from U/G infect such that 12 infect creatures really isn't enough? The blue splash is very nice for countermagic, Blighted Agent, and some deck manipulation. However, against decks like Grixis with loads of removal, is it worth shooting for the goldfish Turn 2/Turn 3 or a deck that is better suited for the long haul? There's a PPTQ coming up and I'm trying to get ideas. So far, here's what I've been playing:
With some luck, I was able to go 3-0 in a weekly against Soul Sisters, Grixis Twin, and Tron. With about 25 creatures, I think I can grind out control decks. Ichorclaw Mir has been very good. With Rancor and lots of exalted triggers, I've put opponents in no-win situations in trying to block him. Both Rancor and Predator's Strike have allowed me to grind through Spirit tokens and I think they are very much underappreciated.
I'm not saying Distortion Strike isn't good, it obviously is, but we only have 60 slots to fill, and we can't just include every card that does something in our deck. The question is, is Distortion Strike a more valuable inclusion than any other card we could be playing in its place? Now that Lingering Souls has basically fallen off the face of the earth, and Wild Defiance isn't in our deck any more, I'm not convinced that it is.
I've found myself casting Distortion Strike on Inkmoth Nexus to get through Affinity blockers. Perhaps somewhat mana-intensive, yes, but without DS we only pack 4x copies of an evasive beater in the deck, that being Blighted Agent.
Now that I am off of the Rapid Hybridization maindeck train, anyone have experiences with 1-2x maindeck Spell Pierce to share? It seems promising maindeck to (1) protect our little guys a la a protection spell such as Apostle's Blessing; (2) gives you a solid midrange survival mode against decks such as Twin or Scapeshift who try to stall you out until Turns 4-6 before they kill you with Splinter Twin or Scapeshift or Through the Breach; or (3) gives you early game protection against other bonkers combo such as Grishoalbrand (the new Griselcannon deck that can go off easily on T2). Thoughts?
Went 4-0 today in a casual tourney playtest for GP Singapore. Faced against Abzan Conpany, Naya Zoo, Junk, and RG 'Tron. Tested against Elves too. Never got to use my Rapid Hybridizations though. The match-ups of the company decks are great in Game1, but in Game2 things get interactive. I'm considering forgoing removal and just have 2x Dispel and the 3rd Wild Defiance boarded in Game2/3 to truly have the back-up plan available. My sideboard now looks like this:
What do you guys think; should I still leave room for Dismembers? What could that last slot best be? I've been
considering Piracy Charm or Monastery Siege
Ok, I'll test the 1 Monastery Siege in that slot. Against what decks do I bring them in?
I'm just reverting back to the old list; it's true that the Twisted Images are the least boarded in, but they're backbreaking in the match-ups they're needed such as UG Infect and Affinity. I've read in a certain article with thorough statistics that they're still part of the Top 10 decks to beat at the moment. So I'm keeping them. I could always go back to YOLO 4 Dismembers :))
I've some full circle and decided that I absolutely love the Serum Visions now, although 3 might be one too many. I'm going to keep testing The Boss's new list for the time being, with the following changes: -1 Dryad Arbor, +1 Spell Pierce main, and an orthodox sideboard.
I'm doing the same thing, brings me up to 3 pierce MD. I've determined the Dryad Arbor is a useless card unless lili is around. In all the games I've played with infect it has only ever been relevant once outside of a liliana scenario and was just a very edge occurrence.
The idea that it's around for normal damage seems ridiculous in most scenarios. If I can't push through 10 infect, why is pushing 10+ normal damage through going to be even easier?
Still debating serum visions. Your argument for it is super strong I am just not sure what I will take out. Maybe drop Distortion strike and a mutagenic and run 2x visions? I've also been thinking about replacing distortion strike with a 3rd apostle's blessing. Apostle's can serve the same purpose as distortion, but provide more utility.
Ok, I'll test the 1 Monastery Siege in that slot. Against what decks do I bring them in?
I'm just reverting back to the old list; it's true that the Twisted Images are the least boarded in, but they're backbreaking in the match-ups they're needed such as UG Infect and Affinity. I've read in a certain article with thorough statistics that they're still part of the Top 10 decks to beat at the moment. So I'm keeping them. I could always go back to YOLO 4 Dismembers :))
I go back and forth on image as well, the cantrip effect is very nice. the main reason I've switched is melira and I want enough removal to reliably get it against the games with her.
Siege is awesome against anything with kolaghan's, grixis anything, jund. Good against twin as well.
Well my thought on pierce is it has interaction with every single deck in modern currently. I don't see too many instances where it is a bad draw unless it is very late game. Moving a siege out might be a good choice though. Maybe I will do -1 siege and -1 distortion for now and +2 serum visions.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
+4 Rapid Hybridization (they were Dismembers before)
+2 Dispel
-4 Mutagenic Growth
-2 Groundswell
Speaking of options, somebody recommended me to try out Simic Charm as well. A bit demanding in terms of mana (yes, 2cc and UG is something I think is troublesome), but it has a bit of everything we need:
1st mode: Pump for damage
2nd mode: Protection from removal (can blank Electrolyze)
3rd mode: Temporary removal if you think you can kill that turn.
RUG Temur Deprive Delver
BUG Sultai Deprive Delver
3x Breeding Pool
3x Forest
4x Inkmoth Nexus
4x Misty Rainforest
2x Pendelhaven
2x Windswept Heath
2x Wooded Foothills
Sorcery (6)
2x Distortion Strike
4x Gitaxian Probe
2x Apostle's Blessing
4x Become Immense
4x Might of Old Krosa
4x Mutagenic Growth
4x Vines of Vastwood
Creature (14)
4x Blighted Agent
4x Glistener Elf
4x Noble Hierarch
2x Spellskite
2x Monastery Siege
2x Dispel
2x Hurkyl's Recall
2x Naturalize
3x Nature's Claim
3x Rapid Hybridization
2x Spell Pierce
1x Spellskite
Im wondering the 1 skite and the two sieges should go SB in place for 3x groundswell. I figure game 1 is important to win, and siege just slows that down.
RUG Temur Deprive Delver
BUG Sultai Deprive Delver
2 Spellskite
4 Blighted Agent
4 Glistener Elf
4 Noble Hierarch
1 Dryad Arbor
Lands (20)
2 Forest
3 Breeding Pool
4 Inkmoth Nexus
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Wooded Foothills
2 Pendelhaven
2 Apostle's Blessing
3 Become Immense
4 Groundswell
2 Might of Old Krosa
3 Mutagenic Growth
4 Vines of Vastwood
4 Gitaxian Probe
3 Serum Visions
1 Spellskite
2 Dispel
3 Nature's Claim
2 Path to Exile
2 Twisted Image
4 Geist of Saint Traft
1 Temple Garden
It is great to see the return of Groundswell in the deck, compared with his pantheon list, and he is even running more of them than Might of Old Krosa! He is running 1 less Become Immense. There is no Wild Defiance in the list either. I tend to have a love/hate relationship with that card, sometimes it is amazing, and sometimes it just gets stuck in your hand. He is also running 3 Serum Visions, which is similar to the old Kelvin Chew deck that made the Top 8 of Pro Tour Return to Ravnica, which ran a lot of dig.
Tom mentions that he really enjoyed playing with Path to Exile as an alternative to cards like Dismember, which is interesting considering our recent discussions. Of course Geist of Saint Traft is also no doubt very enjoyable to play with in certain match-ups. I saw Aaron Barich on camera cast it on turn 2 with Noble Hierarch against 4 color control, which I can imagine that would be an enjoyable experience
It will be interesting to see how the deck evolves from here.
RUG Temur Deprive Delver
BUG Sultai Deprive Delver
RUG Temur Deprive Delver
BUG Sultai Deprive Delver
I like the idea of having 2x Spellskite main and doing a 1/1 split of Monastery Siege main/sideboard. 2x Monastery Siege mainboard might be overkill for a deck whose G1 goal is to go over the top as quickly as possible. Siege does not do that - in fact I'd argue it is better for longer, grindier matches which are more common G2 and G3.
I playtested 1x Rapid Hybridization mainboard last night and was not impressed with it in that role. As stated above, G1 it seems like we want to race as quickly as possible and RH does not synergize with that strategy. It may be better to come out of the SB for longer matches where you aren't winning on Turn 2/3/4.
Still not sure what to make of the Wild Defiance/Monastery Siege split. More playtesting is required.
Because of my confusion over Wild Defiance, I don't really know what to make of Dryad Arbor these days. A card that was already questionable is worse in a deck that doesn't include Wild Defiance.
Not sure what to make of the Serum Visions either. I don't have a premium account to see what was mentioned about their inclusion into the deck. I did see someone state in a prior post that it may well have been a copy of one of the GP Charlotte decks, though I haven't tracked down that list to confirm. I personally feel like Sleight of Hand is better for this deck than Serum Visions, but then again I'm not the pro.
Look forward to getting some playtesting in for mainboard Spell Pierce (1-2x, undecided as of now) this weekend. Will report in with results.
2x Breeding Pool
1x Dryad Arbor
3x Forest
4x Inkmoth Nexus
1x Misty Rainforest
2x Pendelhaven
4x Windswept Heath
4x Wooded Foothills
Sorcery (6)
2x Distortion Strike
3x Gitaxian Probe
1x Sleight of Hand
2x Apostle's Blessing
3x Become Immense
3x Groundswell
4x Might of Old Krosa
3x Mutagenic Growth
4x Vines of Vastwood
Creature (14)
4x Blighted Agent
4x Glistener Elf
4x Noble Hierarch
2x Spellskite
1x Carrion Call
3x Dismember
2x Dispel
2x Grafdigger's Cage
2x Monastery Siege
2x Nature's Claim
2x Spell Pierce
1x Spellskite
From the current interest, I can expect these decks: Jeskai control, Grixis Delver, Scapeshift, 2-3x Burn, Tron, and Affinity. Now that I see the meta spelled out I realize Grafdigger's Cage will be completely useless. With this predictable meta, what would be suggested as a substitute?
RUG Temur Deprive Delver
BUG Sultai Deprive Delver
@JoshB8116: I did not think of Serum Visions in that context but it does make some sense. I am finding myself more and more hesitant to drop an Infect creature without mana open for a protection spell these days, which means less Glistener Elf Turn 1 on the draw. I really wish Serum Visions let you pick out the card like Sleight of Hand, though. I feel like Serum Visions is a great Turn 1 play and far less impactful thereafter.
Has the meta shifted away from U/G infect such that 12 infect creatures really isn't enough? The blue splash is very nice for countermagic, Blighted Agent, and some deck manipulation. However, against decks like Grixis with loads of removal, is it worth shooting for the goldfish Turn 2/Turn 3 or a deck that is better suited for the long haul? There's a PPTQ coming up and I'm trying to get ideas. So far, here's what I've been playing:
Mono-Green Infect
4 Cathedral of War
1 Pendelhaven
4 Forest
6 fetch lands
1 Dryad Arbor
4 Noble Hierarch
3 Spellskite
4 Necropede
4 Ichorclaw Myr
2 Viridian Corrupter
3 Rancor
2 Apostle's Blessing
4 Vines of Vastwood
4 Become Immense
2 Wild Defiance
1 Stonewood Invocation
With some luck, I was able to go 3-0 in a weekly against Soul Sisters, Grixis Twin, and Tron. With about 25 creatures, I think I can grind out control decks. Ichorclaw Mir has been very good. With Rancor and lots of exalted triggers, I've put opponents in no-win situations in trying to block him. Both Rancor and Predator's Strike have allowed me to grind through Spirit tokens and I think they are very much underappreciated.
Any suggestions for a mono-green sideboard?
I've found myself casting Distortion Strike on Inkmoth Nexus to get through Affinity blockers. Perhaps somewhat mana-intensive, yes, but without DS we only pack 4x copies of an evasive beater in the deck, that being Blighted Agent.
Now that I am off of the Rapid Hybridization maindeck train, anyone have experiences with 1-2x maindeck Spell Pierce to share? It seems promising maindeck to (1) protect our little guys a la a protection spell such as Apostle's Blessing; (2) gives you a solid midrange survival mode against decks such as Twin or Scapeshift who try to stall you out until Turns 4-6 before they kill you with Splinter Twin or Scapeshift or Through the Breach; or (3) gives you early game protection against other bonkers combo such as Grishoalbrand (the new Griselcannon deck that can go off easily on T2). Thoughts?
2 Dispel
2 Spell Pierce
3 Twisted Image
4 Nature's Claim
1 Wild Defiance (2 maindeck)
2 Spellskite (2 maindeck)
1 DONT KNOW YET.
What do you guys think; should I still leave room for Dismembers? What could that last slot best be? I've been
considering Piracy Charm or Monastery Siege
I'm just reverting back to the old list; it's true that the Twisted Images are the least boarded in, but they're backbreaking in the match-ups they're needed such as UG Infect and Affinity. I've read in a certain article with thorough statistics that they're still part of the Top 10 decks to beat at the moment. So I'm keeping them. I could always go back to YOLO 4 Dismembers :))
I'm doing the same thing, brings me up to 3 pierce MD. I've determined the Dryad Arbor is a useless card unless lili is around. In all the games I've played with infect it has only ever been relevant once outside of a liliana scenario and was just a very edge occurrence.
The idea that it's around for normal damage seems ridiculous in most scenarios. If I can't push through 10 infect, why is pushing 10+ normal damage through going to be even easier?
Still debating serum visions. Your argument for it is super strong I am just not sure what I will take out. Maybe drop Distortion strike and a mutagenic and run 2x visions? I've also been thinking about replacing distortion strike with a 3rd apostle's blessing. Apostle's can serve the same purpose as distortion, but provide more utility.
4 Blighted Agent
4 Glistener Elf
4 Noble Hierarch
2 Apostle's Blessing
4 Become Immense
4 Might of Old Krosa
4 Mutagenic Growth
4 Vines of Vastwood
1 Distortion Strike
3 Gitaxian Probe
2 Forest
2 Breeding Pool
4 Inkmoth Nexus
1 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath
2 Pendelhaven
4 Wooded Foothills
3 Spell Pierce
2 Monastery Siege
I go back and forth on image as well, the cantrip effect is very nice. the main reason I've switched is melira and I want enough removal to reliably get it against the games with her.
Siege is awesome against anything with kolaghan's, grixis anything, jund. Good against twin as well.