do mono green versions run putrefax as a finish the job card for mid game?
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Gets a bit spicy in the board. Has anyone played against or know this Fosprey person? I have followed to logic and thoughts behind others lack of spellskites but this dude went full-on with them.
Has anybody else tried Gitaxian Probe in their mono green lists? I posted my list back on page 3 but didn't get much response. I just wanted to see if anybody else has given it a shot. I have a ptq in two weeks and I am trying to put the finishing touches on my deck.
Right now I am running 4 Gitaxian Probes and 2 Apostle's Blessing main with the other 2 in the board. I'm starting to feel like I'm doing something wrong here. All lists I see have 0 probes and the 4 blessings main. Do you think it's possible to drop to 20 lands with 4 of both probe and blessing main or is that too risky? Or should I just drop the probes and go for the 4 blessings main and fill the 2 flex slots with something else then?
Looks like it came 1st in the rounds then ended up 5th in the top 8 after losing to Affinity. Really amazing going undefeated in the rounds! Is that you again Watered? How many accounts do you have lol.
In the MonoG list 4 Apostle's Blessing are essential because of running 8 colorless land. I used to run Gitaxian Probe in my UG list and it certainly was helpful at times, but eventually was replaced with more pump/protection. I think the card is still good though, it is just hard to fit in. Dropping to 20 land seems risky since green mana sources are very limited already or if you cut down on the number of Cathedral of War, you might as well go UG instead. Looks like you could still fit 2 probes in the MonoG list though, in the flex slots you mentioned.
Has anybody else tried Gitaxian Probe in their mono green lists? I posted my list back on page 3 but didn't get much response. I just wanted to see if anybody else has given it a shot. I have a ptq in two weeks and I am trying to put the finishing touches on my deck.
Right now I am running 4 Gitaxian Probes and 2 Apostle's Blessing main with the other 2 in the board. I'm starting to feel like I'm doing something wrong here. All lists I see have 0 probes and the 4 blessings main. Do you think it's possible to drop to 20 lands with 4 of both probe and blessing main or is that too risky? Or should I just drop the probes and go for the 4 blessings main and fill the 2 flex slots with something else then?
I'm a big fan of probe in my UGx lists, mono g my thought's were maybe a 3/3 split probe/blessing but if you need that extra blessing then perhaps a 2/4 split of probe/blessing could be worth a look.
Thanks for the replies Magnus and Squirtle. Couple other follow up questions for you.
@Ultra Magnus. I see your point about blessing being good since mono green runs the 8 colorless lands so it casts for 2 life and 1 colorless. But probe is kind of the same just casting for 2 life not even needing the colorless. I understand the effects aren't exactly the same but just as far as casting cost goes.
I was also trying a UG version with Cathedrals for Blighted Agent but it just felt too clunky.
@Darth Squirtle. Why did you only like probe in UG instead of mono green? Was it just that you had the blue mana to cast it?
I may end up trying the 4/2 split in favor of probe going forward. I wouldn't say that I always feel the need for the extra blessings. Usually the info from probe and the 6 protection spells with Vines is enough for game one. I usually end up boarding the extra blessings in for which ever of the +2 pump spells seems weaker in a given match up.
One last question for all. So do you usually wait to play one of your creatures with vines/blessing back up? I am used to playing with probe to see what they are up to so I know how to play my threats accordingly. If I try with probe and the 4 blessings main I just want to make sure I'm testing it right to get the best results.
But isn't the main use of Probe to see if they have anything to blow up your infectors? And if so, wouldn't you rather just have an answer in hand?
What other plus-value have you gotten from a Probe? Im interested in it, but couldn't figure a reason that wouldve made it just better than have the Apostle's blessing, as an answer. Since everything we do is pretty straight-forward.
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@Darth Squirtle. Why did you only like probe in UG instead of mono green? Was it just that you had the blue mana to cast it?
Sorry i don't play mono g, just UGx lists and then only 2 probe's in the 75, both MD, but i was thinking it would have a spot in mono g to, maybe even as more than 2.
I think it is a decent card to use but i can't see myself putting anymore in there, but i generally pay the 2 life to cast and save my mana for pump spells.
But isn't the main use of Probe to see if they have anything to blow up your infectors? And if so, wouldn't you rather just have an answer in hand?
What other plus-value have you gotten from a Probe? Im interested in it, but couldn't figure a reason that wouldve made it just better than have the Apostle's blessing, as an answer. Since everything we do is pretty straight-forward.
I may be using probe wrong, but i like that you get a draw off of it to, yeah the argument can be made why not just run x if thats what you want to draw into, but probe aside from letting you see if they can kill your dudes is useful if you draw it early enough to try figure out what deck they are running and then giving you some room to plan your plays ahead etc etc instead of going in blind.
I may be using probe wrong, but i like that you get a draw off of it to, yeah the argument can be made why not just run x if thats what you want to draw into, but probe aside from letting you see if they can kill your dudes is useful if you draw it early enough to try figure out what deck they are running and then giving you some room to plan your plays ahead etc etc instead of going in blind.
Quote from from radouf »
But isn't the main use of Probe to see if they have anything to blow up your infectors? And if so, wouldn't you rather just have an answer in hand?
What other plus-value have you gotten from a Probe? Im interested in it, but couldn't figure a reason that wouldve made it just better than have the Apostle's blessing, as an answer. Since everything we do is pretty straight-forward.
Darth, see I don't play probe in hopes of drawing into X. I play it more for the second part of your statement. I play it so I can see if the coast is clear. Whether if its to play my first creature or going for the kill. Many times I will play it game one to see what deck my opponent is playing. I will also play it right before casting my first creature. This lets me see if they have a counter or a removal spell. This way I can plan my future lines of play. Sometimes I need to wait a turn to have protection back up. Other times if I have multiple threats I will just run the first one out there I want them to counter or kill and follow it up with the other one the following turn. The information Probe provides on a kill turn is very valuable too. It lets me see what they have and play my pump and protection in the correct order.
radouf, yes one of the main reasons is to see if they can blow up my infectors. Of course having an answer would be better but sometimes the information is just as good. Now don't get me wrong I still have the 2 Blessings main and 2 more after boarding along with the 4 Vines as answers.
Maybe this is all just the Legacy combo player in me wanting to play Gitaxian Probe. I guess it may have become a crutch for me to play it now, but the information it provides is so helpful and the fact that it replaces itself is just icing on the cake. It might not be what this deck wants to do but I figure its worth the discussion.
I agree. I'll test with 2 that I guess you board out when up against heavy removal decks.
Other thought, on mono-green: isn't all the artifact hate that Affinity draws from the SB hurting us? If I take these top8 builds, they all heavily rely on artifact infectors. Couldn't we play around the hate by relying less on artifacts? I've read so-so reviews on Ichorclaw myr. I figure he's the "less efficient of what we have".
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Actually Necropede is the least efficient of what we have as Ichorclaw Myr works great against blockers and is amazing with rancor against blockers and is used in G/U builds along side the blue infect creature and our staple one drop unlike Necropede. Necropede effect is pretty meh and is less useful than Ichor, plus he needs to die in order for it to work and we don't want our creatures to die hence why we are protecting them in the first place. The only reason we run him in the first place is because there is simply nothing better in mono-green.
As for your concern of artifact hate, mono-green does not have much of a choice as the only worthy infect card left that is not a artifact Blight Mamba but no one plays him because you rarely ever have the mana to regenerate him so it much more efficient to play the artifact creatures as they don't require green mana so we can just play them with our colorless lands and they both have usable effects. Also, if they pack artifact removal we can just pack more protection ex: spellkite, Ranger's Guile, etc. Additionally, we still have Glistener Elf who is immune to artifact removal rendering it useless if he is out, so artifact removal in the sideboard is not so devastating to us as you might think.
In Progress: BGR Living End (Modern) BGR U Tron (Modern) U BW Tokens (Modern) BW WUBRG Manaless Dredge (Legacy) WUBRG UBR Nekusar, the Mindrazer (EDH) UBR
Stony Silence does nothing and 4 mana mass wipes (Creeping Corrosion, Shatterstorm) are too slow and ineffective (they only take out 1 creature if you don't overextend). Out of all the artifact hate that people board in for Affinity, you only have to worry about Ancient Grudge. Treat any other artifact removal spell like you would Path to Exile, i.e. give your creature hexproof/protection or use Spellskite to counter it.
"Relying less on artifacts" is pretty hard to do in the mono-green version given that your mana base has 8 colorless and 14 green sources (vs 4 and 16 for BUG). In mono-green the only other option is Blight Mamba. If you have to cut an artifact creature, lose Necropede before Ichorclaw Myr.
Thanks, great replies guys! And isnt Blight mamba's regeneration clause like a built-in protection spell? After all, its only one more mana than the cost of an apostle's blessing, but costs A CARD less! Has anyone given it a try? Just a thought. Yeah, Im a newbee with that deck.
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Your welcome , I have tried it out but I never got to use the regenerate as one extra mana makes all the difference because in infect you usually only have one mana open and rarely ever two. Also, regenerate does not protect against path to exile or any other exile effects unlike our other protection which is another deciding factor.
In Progress: BGR Living End (Modern) BGR U Tron (Modern) U BW Tokens (Modern) BW WUBRG Manaless Dredge (Legacy) WUBRG UBR Nekusar, the Mindrazer (EDH) UBR
2 mana is expensive, especially if you don't have Noble Hierarch. (If you do have Noble Hierarch then you should be playing Blighted Agent anyway.) Furthermore, regeneration taps and removes the creature from combat so it doesn't allow you to force damage through.
I played 2 dailies with monogreen infect after the premier. I went 0-4 I lost vs 2 burn, 1 Affinity and 1 UWR. A) I'm tired of losing vs affinity B) Burn used to be a good matchup. Well, not anymore. Eidolon of great reveal is basically game. If a burn player has that card in the deck the matchup has become atrocious since is basically RR, infect player loses the game.
For that reason I will walk off Monogreen infect for a while.
Burn used to be a good matchup. Well, not anymore. Eidolon of great reveal is basically game. If a burn player has that card in the deck the matchup has become atrocious since is basically RR, infect player loses the game.
I was having this same issue with Eidolon of the Great Revel until I realized that it is an enchantment creature. So if I saw it game 1, then I sided in Nature's Claim to kill it. Obviously Dismember is bad against burn, so I didn't want to use that. Nature's Claim can also double as emergency life gain for us in this match-up, since you can remove your own Rancor or artifact creature and gain 4 life. The main reason though is to kill the Eidolon or even Blood Moon if they happen to side it in.
I find that if I draw Apostle's Blessing I quite often just win the game, I give my guy protection from Artifacts and swing for the win. I bring in 4 Nature's Claim, which I hold for cards like Cranial Plating and Spellskite, or just to slow down a crazy fast start. I also bring in 1 Creeping Corrosion which has been great to turn a lost game around. It is very satisfying to watch their whole board blow up!
For that reason I will walk off Monogreen infect for a while.
Come on Waterd, you just went 5-0 in a premier event. Having some bad days is just Magic, if anything you have had an amazing run with Infect! Don't let a few bad results discourage you from playing the best deck in Modern
What sort of hate are you running for artifacts?
Creeping Corrosion works well or Pithing Needle naming Spellskite.
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Really standard list.
http://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/234619
4 Glistener Elf
4 Ichorclaw Myr
4 Necropede
4 Apostle's Blessing
4 Groundswell
4 Might of Old Krosa
4 Mutagenic Growth
4 Rancor
2 Ranger's Guile
4 Vines of Vastwood
4 Cathedral of War
4 Inkmoth Nexus
2 Pendelhaven
4 Dismember
4 Nature's Claim
4 Spellskite
3 Viridian Corrupter
Gets a bit spicy in the board. Has anyone played against or know this Fosprey person? I have followed to logic and thoughts behind others lack of spellskites but this dude went full-on with them.
Right now I am running 4 Gitaxian Probes and 2 Apostle's Blessing main with the other 2 in the board. I'm starting to feel like I'm doing something wrong here. All lists I see have 0 probes and the 4 blessings main. Do you think it's possible to drop to 20 lands with 4 of both probe and blessing main or is that too risky? Or should I just drop the probes and go for the 4 blessings main and fill the 2 flex slots with something else then?
Looks like it came 1st in the rounds then ended up 5th in the top 8 after losing to Affinity. Really amazing going undefeated in the rounds! Is that you again Watered? How many accounts do you have lol.
In the MonoG list 4 Apostle's Blessing are essential because of running 8 colorless land. I used to run Gitaxian Probe in my UG list and it certainly was helpful at times, but eventually was replaced with more pump/protection. I think the card is still good though, it is just hard to fit in. Dropping to 20 land seems risky since green mana sources are very limited already or if you cut down on the number of Cathedral of War, you might as well go UG instead. Looks like you could still fit 2 probes in the MonoG list though, in the flex slots you mentioned.
I'm a big fan of probe in my UGx lists, mono g my thought's were maybe a 3/3 split probe/blessing but if you need that extra blessing then perhaps a 2/4 split of probe/blessing could be worth a look.
@Ultra Magnus. I see your point about blessing being good since mono green runs the 8 colorless lands so it casts for 2 life and 1 colorless. But probe is kind of the same just casting for 2 life not even needing the colorless. I understand the effects aren't exactly the same but just as far as casting cost goes.
I was also trying a UG version with Cathedrals for Blighted Agent but it just felt too clunky.
@Darth Squirtle. Why did you only like probe in UG instead of mono green? Was it just that you had the blue mana to cast it?
I may end up trying the 4/2 split in favor of probe going forward. I wouldn't say that I always feel the need for the extra blessings. Usually the info from probe and the 6 protection spells with Vines is enough for game one. I usually end up boarding the extra blessings in for which ever of the +2 pump spells seems weaker in a given match up.
One last question for all. So do you usually wait to play one of your creatures with vines/blessing back up? I am used to playing with probe to see what they are up to so I know how to play my threats accordingly. If I try with probe and the 4 blessings main I just want to make sure I'm testing it right to get the best results.
What other plus-value have you gotten from a Probe? Im interested in it, but couldn't figure a reason that wouldve made it just better than have the Apostle's blessing, as an answer. Since everything we do is pretty straight-forward.
OLD SCHOOL 93/94 «The Pain Train» Black Sligh, Esper «Machine Gun» Artifacts, Jund «Psycho» Ponza-Disko.
Sorry i don't play mono g, just UGx lists and then only 2 probe's in the 75, both MD, but i was thinking it would have a spot in mono g to, maybe even as more than 2.
I think it is a decent card to use but i can't see myself putting anymore in there, but i generally pay the 2 life to cast and save my mana for pump spells.
I may be using probe wrong, but i like that you get a draw off of it to, yeah the argument can be made why not just run x if thats what you want to draw into, but probe aside from letting you see if they can kill your dudes is useful if you draw it early enough to try figure out what deck they are running and then giving you some room to plan your plays ahead etc etc instead of going in blind.
Darth, see I don't play probe in hopes of drawing into X. I play it more for the second part of your statement. I play it so I can see if the coast is clear. Whether if its to play my first creature or going for the kill. Many times I will play it game one to see what deck my opponent is playing. I will also play it right before casting my first creature. This lets me see if they have a counter or a removal spell. This way I can plan my future lines of play. Sometimes I need to wait a turn to have protection back up. Other times if I have multiple threats I will just run the first one out there I want them to counter or kill and follow it up with the other one the following turn. The information Probe provides on a kill turn is very valuable too. It lets me see what they have and play my pump and protection in the correct order.
radouf, yes one of the main reasons is to see if they can blow up my infectors. Of course having an answer would be better but sometimes the information is just as good. Now don't get me wrong I still have the 2 Blessings main and 2 more after boarding along with the 4 Vines as answers.
Maybe this is all just the Legacy combo player in me wanting to play Gitaxian Probe. I guess it may have become a crutch for me to play it now, but the information it provides is so helpful and the fact that it replaces itself is just icing on the cake. It might not be what this deck wants to do but I figure its worth the discussion.
Other thought, on mono-green: isn't all the artifact hate that Affinity draws from the SB hurting us? If I take these top8 builds, they all heavily rely on artifact infectors. Couldn't we play around the hate by relying less on artifacts? I've read so-so reviews on Ichorclaw myr. I figure he's the "less efficient of what we have".
OLD SCHOOL 93/94 «The Pain Train» Black Sligh, Esper «Machine Gun» Artifacts, Jund «Psycho» Ponza-Disko.
As for your concern of artifact hate, mono-green does not have much of a choice as the only worthy infect card left that is not a artifact Blight Mamba but no one plays him because you rarely ever have the mana to regenerate him so it much more efficient to play the artifact creatures as they don't require green mana so we can just play them with our colorless lands and they both have usable effects. Also, if they pack artifact removal we can just pack more protection ex: spellkite, Ranger's Guile, etc. Additionally, we still have Glistener Elf who is immune to artifact removal rendering it useless if he is out, so artifact removal in the sideboard is not so devastating to us as you might think.
Standard Decks:
B Mono Black Aggro B
Modern Decks:
G Infect G
G Stompy! G
In Progress:
BGR Living End (Modern) BGR
U Tron (Modern) U
BW Tokens (Modern) BW
WUBRG Manaless Dredge (Legacy) WUBRG
UBR Nekusar, the Mindrazer (EDH) UBR
"Relying less on artifacts" is pretty hard to do in the mono-green version given that your mana base has 8 colorless and 14 green sources (vs 4 and 16 for BUG). In mono-green the only other option is Blight Mamba. If you have to cut an artifact creature, lose Necropede before Ichorclaw Myr.
| Ad Nauseam
| Infect
Big Johnny.
OLD SCHOOL 93/94 «The Pain Train» Black Sligh, Esper «Machine Gun» Artifacts, Jund «Psycho» Ponza-Disko.
Standard Decks:
B Mono Black Aggro B
Modern Decks:
G Infect G
G Stompy! G
In Progress:
BGR Living End (Modern) BGR
U Tron (Modern) U
BW Tokens (Modern) BW
WUBRG Manaless Dredge (Legacy) WUBRG
UBR Nekusar, the Mindrazer (EDH) UBR
| Ad Nauseam
| Infect
Big Johnny.
For that reason I will walk off Monogreen infect for a while.
I find that if I draw Apostle's Blessing I quite often just win the game, I give my guy protection from Artifacts and swing for the win. I bring in 4 Nature's Claim, which I hold for cards like Cranial Plating and Spellskite, or just to slow down a crazy fast start. I also bring in 1 Creeping Corrosion which has been great to turn a lost game around. It is very satisfying to watch their whole board blow up!
Come on Waterd, you just went 5-0 in a premier event. Having some bad days is just Magic, if anything you have had an amazing run with Infect! Don't let a few bad results discourage you from playing the best deck in Modern
Might start playing online over my winter months but i dont want to drop alot of $ into cards that are not paper versions.