Zbraith i agree alot with what you are saying.
i want to get into a discuss
I have been playing tasigur as a two of, and i have been loving it. its never a card i am disapointed to see in my opening hand or even topdecking it it has definitely won me games just as a 4/5 monster for b or 1b. i have never even used its card drawing ability and thats just icing on the cake. all of that being said, i want to use snapcaster. i see the value inherent in its ability/body and there is a reason it is the most value blue creature in modern, the same reason it is 50+ dollars. plus it is basically a faerie just trapped in a human body. i dont believe i will be able to run both tasigur and snapcaster because they have conflicting actions, one delves/exiles gy and one flashbacks gy. Im wondering if anyone has has any success running both snap and tasi or if anyone has any opinion on which one is more effective in this deck. im asking this now because im considering buying into two snapcasters for this deck.
For me i have 1 slot for delve it was between Tasigur and Murderous cut and i honestly have no idea which one is better.
i agree with your points about snapcaster you can't run him with the other GY cards. there just isn't enough in there for both of them for me Snapcaster feels so weird using 3 to 4 mana to basically kill a creature and in this deck 4 mana is asking alot. and most of the time the other creatures are weaker than what we are playing or cant just straight up be ignored and chumped for days. And honestly i have no idea what to cut for him.
Tasigur is not optimal in faeries, as our sorcery/instant/fetch count is so low, almost all of our high impact cards are permanents. I wouldn't run more than 1 delve card. I rather run Snapcaster, since we will be binning discard, counterspells or removal and reusing them is awesome.
SLAUGHTER PACT!!! have you guys been running this? ever since i put one into this deck everytime i draw it im so happy to see it. turn one discard turn two BB AND SP can just be so overwhelming for my opponents, that i am considering running more than one. it is just so good!!!
see the above about my take on removal the opponent's creatures just aren't as good as ours. i rather use t3 to protect our BB since if they can't answer it we just win.
Opponents creatures are 90% of the times better than yours, larger and harder to kill (except you drop in a scion).
Our creatures are better tempowise, but not better in the value they hold on their own on the battlefield.
BTW: You wouldn't be using T3 to pay for the pact, but T4.
SWORD OF F+F. i might not necessarily keep a hand with this card in it depending on obviously the other cards. but topdecking this and dumping it onto a token or VC or mistbind or even god forbid tasi can just be devastating for an opponent. i have noticed a lot of the lists on here not including it and i just think its too good to not include at least as a SB for grindy matchups or GBx ones. making them discard, proBG, untapping your lands is so ridiculously good, and youre going to say Kcommand and abrupt decay but in my experience and with six discard MB/counters it has just not been relevant. im considering running two.
i was 100% on SoFaF train till kolghans command came out and lantern and robots became so damn popular it's just too much of a hostile environment for it right. I tested it and i rarely got to hit with it. However i really recommend Sword of Light and sword it's amazing vs a lot of even decks that don't run answers to artifacts the pro white and black is massive it's dodges nearly removal in this format but Bolt. also it's amazing answer to Lingering souls. I think SoFaF is really good it's not in my 75 and it's easily right on the edge of my SB/MB if the meta ever shifts it's coming back.
I agree SoLaS is the best sword available and SoWaP is also really good, but at this stage I'd rather use Wurmcoil Engine, even in MB.
Finally SCION OF OONA. i have not found this card to be effective whatsoever. if i have BB and one token on the board turn three i am generally not going to want to play this card. it feels to me as they say "winmore" i will be wanting removal or countering , and i find its +1+1/hexproof effect to honestly be lackluster in comparison to other possible plays. it seems really good when i look at it, but in my play testing it has just been a game loser for me, i even try it as specifically a counter target spell targeting my faerie but honestly i would rather play redirect if thats what im playing scion of oona for.
I treat it as a spellstutter sprite 5/6 the 2 for 1 value is so massive. jund or any midrange deck really can't come back from t1 Discard t2 discard and t3 scion as a counter is so much ******* tempo. even if they kill it it still forces a 2 for 1 so sometimes it's even a 3 for 1 and in this format 2-1 are beatings and 3-1 are blow outs.
Scion doesn't give Hexproof, it gives shroud, it's not the same thing.
T1 discard, T2 Discard, T3 Scion -> This is not countering anything, as there isn't anything to target on your side of the board.
Scion doesn't provide 2-for-1s, even less 3-for-1s. if they try to kill something, you cast scion, and then they kill scion it's a 2 for 2, as the first removal also resolves with a legal target.
I find Scion of Oona a really interesting card, as it can counter Abrupt Decay and give awesome Alpha Strikes for the win. It's an average card that can either overperform or underperform in the same matchups, so it depends in your playstyle and deckbuilding processes if you want to include it or not.
UB FOR LIFE HELL NAH I AINT SPLASHIN NO COLORS IM KEEPIN MY PAINLESS MANABASE and HELL NAH I AINT LOSIN MY DISCARD YOU CRAY????? YOU CRAY??? DISCARD IS OP.
You're Goddamn right.
If you want to splash go play esper/grixis control
Painless is required
IF you think discard isn't tempo Mulligan and see what happens. You can literally win the game on t1 with discard and smart play.
UB Painless faeries is good, but not good enough for the format. At least not now. Disregarding color splashes doesn't help to improve the deck, it just limits it.
Tasigur is not optimal in faeries, as our sorcery/instant/fetch count is so low, almost all of our high impact cards are permanents. I wouldn't run more than 1 delve card. I rather run Snapcaster, since we will be binning discard, counterspells or removal and reusing them is awesome.
I willing to 100% talk about this with others i honest don't know which one to play they are very close. i agree with 1 delve anymore is pushing it.
Opponents creatures are 90% of the times better than yours, larger and harder to kill (except you drop in a scion).
Our creatures are better tempowise, but not better in the value they hold on their own on the battlefield.
BTW: You wouldn't be using T3 to pay for the pact, but T4.
100% disagree there is no creature i fear outside of the creatures that are part of combos. gofty arguably the best creature in modern (rhino is 4 mana and should never resolve) dies to everything in the world and can be chumped blocked by tokens/SSP for days.
mistbind clique is a 4/4 flyer that timewalks
glen elendra is beyond dumb in this format
He said turn two BB AND SP and i rather have spellsutter spirte, scion, vend, or any removal or other counter or really anything up.
Protecting BB is more important than any stupid cmc<3 creature (that isnt a combo piece)
I agree SoLaS is the best sword available and SoWaP is also really good, but at this stage I'd rather use Wurmcoil Engine, even in MB.
war and peace is a weird card i can see where it's a massive beating i can also see where it's just just trash
Wurmcoil is interesting card to think about i think having 6 mana and not having any ETB effects makes it's really hard to use in this format and getting to 6 mana is tough.
Scion doesn't give Hexproof, it gives shroud, it's not the same thing.
T1 discard, T2 Discard, T3 Scion -> This is not countering anything, as there isn't anything to target on your side of the board.
Scion doesn't provide 2-for-1s, even less 3-for-1s. if they try to kill something, you cast scion, and then they kill scion it's a 2 for 2, as the first removal also resolves with a legal target.
I find Scion of Oona a really interesting card, as it can counter Abrupt Decay and give awesome Alpha Strikes for the win. It's an average card that can either overperform or underperform in the same matchups, so it depends in your playstyle and deckbuilding processes if you want to include it or not.
First of all why would you cast scion on a empty board it's just like spellshutter sprite very rarely do you just throw them out there and if you do you are in a great position anyways.
With scion you are basically demanding them have both cards in there hand at the same time and the right colors to cast said spells and the fact run 5-6 discard spells makes this extremely unlikely Sure sometimes they will have the nuts but what else could you do?
UB Painless faeries is good, but not good enough for the format. At least not now. Disregarding color splashes doesn't help to improve the deck, it just limits it.
I 100% disagree splashing completely ruins the deck and makes it worse if you want to splash red you are basically playing a bad version of a much better deck.(grixis is like tier 1-2ish)
You cannot run fetches/shocks with bitterblossom in this format. that's not me saying that's what PV said.
Countersquall
Ok seems fine
There's just no room in the deck for this, I believe we all have tried this in the past but no one came with a practical inclusion.
you can easily run 4, 3, or 2 card draw spells in this deck no problem.
I think I definitely have ran out a spellstutter sprite on turn 2 but thats the only case where it happens when its not trading for value, like you said "having potential to get ahead", but I play a tempo-equipment strategy of faeries, so the hands definitely shift potential lines of play when you can swing for 4 with flying on turn 3. But i feel like flying is the ability you want on a delve threat really in regards to the tasigur discussion
Decks I have in my bag of tricks- Needless to say, someone who wants to play will probably have a deck UB/x Faeries UR Storm XURWB Affinity G Elves UW control
I'm not a big fan of tasigur, or much delve at all for that matter in faeries, we just don't fill the graveyard fast or reliably enough for it to be efficient.
I've played around with a singleton murderous cut, and sometimes it was amazing, but most of the time I think it is worse than the alternatives. I run a 1-of snapcaster mage in the tasigur slot, and it can be a little awkward, but I like it a lot more than the banana king.
I agree that you shouldn't compare spell pierce to spell snare.
Also, those who've had experience with SoLaS, how much value do you get off the return from gy to hand trigger? Do you usually have the targets to make use of it?
hello all i have been playing faeries at my lgs fnm/thnm for probably the last six months having gone from casual kitchen table to buying into poorly thought out UB midrange and now finally settling on faeries and im loving it, its unexpected for my opponent and interactive and difficult and everything i love about magic all rolled up into a tribe, while also having game against tier one decks. I have no problem now that i know the majority of the interactions. here is the decklist i am currently on. http://www.mtgvault.com/justzane/decks/ubfaetribe/
so now i have some questions im basically just looking for some feedback from you guys on, not necessarily definitive answers just feedback.
I have been playing tasigur as a two of, and i have been loving it. its never a card i am disapointed to see in my opening hand or even topdecking it it has definitely won me games just as a 4/5 monster for b or 1b. i have never even used its card drawing ability and thats just icing on the cake. all of that being said, i want to use snapcaster. i see the value inherent in its ability/body and there is a reason it is the most value blue creature in modern, the same reason it is 50+ dollars. plus it is basically a faerie just trapped in a human body. i dont believe i will be able to run both tasigur and snapcaster because they have conflicting actions, one delves/exiles gy and one flashbacks gy. Im wondering if anyone has has any success running both snap and tasi or if anyone has any opinion on which one is more effective in this deck. im asking this now because im considering buying into two snapcasters for this deck.
I've run Tasigur and not been too disappointed in the past, and I ran him alongside snapcaster mage and murderous cut. (1 Tasigur, 1 cut, 2 snapcasters) Our tasigurs don't come down as fast as those in grixis, and we don't have quite as many opportunities to activate him on average, since we aren't hard control so we'd still need to hold up (and then use) interaction for our opponent's plays. Currently I've cut Tasigur for Sword of Fire and Ice, but I could see myself going back if my store meta broke the right way.
SLAUGHTER PACT!!! have you guys been running this? ever since i put one into this deck everytime i draw it im so happy to see it. turn one discard turn two BB AND SP can just be so overwhelming for my opponents, that i am considering running more than one. it is just so good!!!
Slaughter pact is an interesting removal choice. I presently don't run it because being able to kill black creatures with my removal is more important than the upfront cost of zero, but it's not a bad removal spell. Just be careful that you have the mana to pay for it. If you cast it T2, you'll only have 2 mana by the upkeep of T3 since your land drop isn't until your main phase. This should never come up in practice, since most of the 'emergency, kill on sight' cards won't be down until T3 anyways (like exarch), but it is worth pointing out to be careful of.
SWORD OF F+F. i might not necessarily keep a hand with this card in it depending on obviously the other cards. but topdecking this and dumping it onto a token or VC or mistbind or even god forbid tasi can just be devastating for an opponent. i have noticed a lot of the lists on here not including it and i just think its too good to not include at least as a SB for grindy matchups or GBx ones. making them discard, proBG, untapping your lands is so ridiculously good, and youre going to say Kcommand and abrupt decay but in my experience and with six discard MB/counters it has just not been relevant. im considering running two.
I run Sword of Feast and Famine right now. It's situational because once both players get into topdeck mode, its power goes down significantly, as it doesn't let you press that advantage to close the game out quickly. Particularly in those grindy matchups, both players will end up low on cards in hand by the time this would stick and the equipped creature would get in, making it less likely to have the full effect you want. I personally like it as the final nail in the coffin of combo decks like scapeshift, as you can pressure their hand while still keeping up countermagic. As a rule, though, I try to diversify my options by running different swords. For example, right now I run 1 SoFI, 1 SoFF, and 1 SoLS in the side, because some matches want certain effects more than others.
Finally SCION OF OONA. i have not found this card to be effective whatsoever. if i have BB and one token on the board turn three i am generally not going to want to play this card. it feels to me as they say "winmore" i will be wanting removal or countering , and i find its +1+1/hexproof effect to honestly be lackluster in comparison to other possible plays. it seems really good when i look at it, but in my play testing it has just been a game loser for me, i even try it as specifically a counter target spell targeting my faerie but honestly i would rather play redirect if thats what im playing scion of oona for.
I agree about scion, though part of that is my own stance on building Faeries. Scion is not a proactive play unless you already have another threat on board, and scion comes down at an important part in your curve (T3 is when you want to extend your disruption by either SSS to counter their whole turn or V-clique to deploy a fast threat and disrupt their hand, not deploy a 1/1 that doesn't interact with their board at all) in order to begin setting up for Mistbind Clique after T4. Again, there are certain metagames where Scion is powerful, but I don't think that now is one of them.
P.S
UB FOR LIFE HELL NAH I AINT SPLASHIN NO COLORS IM KEEPIN MY PAINLESS MANABASE and HELL NAH I AINT LOSIN MY DISCARD YOU CRAY????? YOU CRAY??? DISCARD IS OP.
Personally, I have lost more games to having excess discard in my hand than I have lost by not having a discard T1 and that costing me the game. I'm starting to see the 6 maindeck discard spells as more of a crutch than a necessity in Faeries. Yes, it lets you take 'their best card' and see their hand so you know what else they have. It also guarantees that they can resolve their next spell since you don't have instant-speed interaction held up. If you need discard to protect BB (especially from opposing countermagic), then you are likely trying to play it too recklessly, rather than keeping the board even and picking a spot where interacting with you will be most awkward for your opponent.
Many high-profile twin players write about using 'the fear' of them having the combo to force their opponents to play sub-optimally for fear of just dying if they ever tap out. We can employ a similar tactic, since we have many things that are 'fear'ful, (mistbind, spellstutter, cryptic) that our opponents will try to play around even when we don't have them. Tying up mana for discard spells limits the things they have to be afraid of, and makes it easier for them to deploy their threats in an efficient manner, which is ultimately what we can't deal with.
I'm still working a little on the sideboard (the Hibernations aren't too well-positioned right now, for example, though they have been very good in the past, and they're still my best answer to slippery bogle)
Highlights:
-No Discard Mainboard
Faeries wins by interacting well on the board and on the stack. Thoughtseize does neither of these things, and it also allows the opponent to deploy something else while we can't interact with it, forcing us to spend more time interacting with it later, costing us a lot of tempo in a deck that loses most often to falling behind on board. Cutting discard also allows for the inclusion of other things that have been on the Faeries wishlist for a while, but there has never been room for them. This deck doesn't need discard to win, just smart play.
-Anticipates
People have been suggesting card-draw spells for a while, and running a few Anticipates helps us smooth out our draws on turns where our opponents don't do anything worth countering. I could see cutting these if I need access to more fast interaction (more disfigures, for example), but it is nice to have some way to dig for high-impact sideboard cards. Being able to maintain the illusion that I have a counter/removal while sculpting my hand is also very important, since it encourages opponents to play around things I might not have at all.
-Vapor Snag
Good against opposing delve threats, and sometimes the life-loss gives you a way to swing for lethal out of nowhere once they deploy a stabilizing blocker. 1-mana board interaction is great for us, and bounce is a bit underrated in a deck like this, where the tempo is very important.
-"Painful" Manabase
Not really painful at all. Having lands that can come in untapped at all points of the game (both early for spell snare, disfigure, and late for cryptic, mistbind) is just as important as having a theoretically pain-free manabase that can make casting spells on time potentially awkward (T4 Darkslick Shores?). Running a high number of basics makes me virtually immune to blood moon, and supplementing with a fetch-shock package also allows me to consistently support...
-Vedalken Shackles
This is my trump against aggressive and midrange decks, which have historically been difficult matchups for us. Please note, if you are going to run shackles (as some other posters have suggested at certain points) you need to rebuild your entire manabase to support it. Running only 4 Islands (and no fetches) will only allow you to take ornithopters consistently. My list has 14 functional Islands (including fetches), so I can regularly take Tasigur, Siege Rhino, or Tarmogoyf with Shackles, which can nullify opposing offense almost completely. Make sure you prioritize taking things that trade with their other things so you can get the 2-for-0 when possible.
-What about Abrupt Decay, Kolaghan's Command, ...
I have 4 enchantments and 4 artifacts main, and every single one of them qualifies as a must-answer threat. If they Decay my Bitterblossom, I'll drop a sword. If they Command my sword, I'll slam a Shackles. They will run out of interaction long before I run out of threats that they have to answer with that slice of interaction. Most decks run at most 2 commands and at most 4 decays, with Jund being the only deck that runs both (usually 4-5 cards) that are their only ways to answer my 8 threats. Command doesn't even dodge our countermagic.
-Vampire Nighthawk in the Sideboard
These serve two roles. One is when the lifegain is relevant (usually against burn) where they come in alongside the Sword of Light and Shadow. The other is when the blocker that trades with their big dude is relevant (Jund, Junk). The fact that Nighthawk can completely nullify both a Siege Rhino Attack and the Siege Rhino itself in the same block (compare 'gain 2' to 'trample over for 1') is just the best. Supporting this card is the reason for the Urborg in the maindeck.
Also, those who've had experience with SoLaS, how much value do you get off the return from gy to hand trigger? Do you usually have the targets to make use of it?
Most of the time you won't return anything off the regrowth trigger, but the times that you do it will be absolutely backbreaking to your opponent. I would treat SoLS as only having the gain 3 ability when deciding whether to play it, and treat the regrowth effect like an occasional bonus that can basically lock up the game completely if you hit with it. I run mine in the sideboard as a persistent lifegain source going long that can also occasionally rebuy spellstutters or vendilion cliques in the right matchup.
A lot of good feedback to comment on and think about.
The sword talk - I have only tested 2 SoLaS and they aren't bad. They could be better, but if they go unanswered, the protection (and pumps) and life gain and creature retrieval are all so good at all stages of the game. There's been many games I've sat with one in hand and been at like 4 mana and I don't want to waste a turn playing it and then waiting... playing and equipping on the same turn or at least playing and still have mana open is way better. It's hit or miss on whether I have a creature to bring back with it, it feels great to return even a spellstutter though.
Spell Snare getting valued low is odd to me, I always love that card. For 1 mana to stop any 2 mana spell, it's always gold in my hand. I think I am running 3 right now, plus 2 spell pierce, 3 remands, and 3 crypics (and 4 spellstutters obv).
I was playing burn the other day and he went first with a goblin guide. I had an IoK in hand with a spell pierce and spell snare. Those were my 3 options. I chose not to cast IoK on turn 1. The result was he played around Spell Snare. He told me afterwards he was afraid I had it. So he chose not to cast his Eidolon and instead he cast a swiftspear and lavamancer. Of course I couldn't counter either of those, so I was in pretty bad shape and indeed ended up losing to lavamancer later after stabilizing against his burn and creatures. But, even looking at it, I think I made the right choice in leaving counter magic open (or removal if I had that). IoK would have grabbed his Eidolon and he would have done the same play he did, or maybe gone more aggressive knowing I was tapped and couldn't spell snare.
I haven't tried any delve cards, but I do run 1 snappy and he's been fine. Sometimes there isn't a card to flashback in the grave but I need a chump blocker, he fills in.
I agree that opening up possibilities is how we will find good fits. Closing doors to a spicy 3rd color splash may be restricting our potential. I agree not to get carried away with it, don't run bolts or paths if you only want a slight splash, you won't consistently have that splash color on T1 or 2 or 3. But maybe throwing in a few white sources for a resto angel or sphinx's rev etc could be something... Just keep your eyes open, but don't get delusional either.
I think vampiric link is a card people keep mentioning, but then I don't see it in many lists. It actually seems a great cheap answer to our life problems.
Seeing swords being discussed again is interestin, especially when people are more prepared for artifacts in the current meta.
It does give us something to take out of main deck or to bring into game 2. I know every time I see my friend playing his Soul Sisters and slamming down a Sophie people instantly get a nervous look in their eye.
I'm currently brewing a Shackles Esper list with the new duals to allow running 8 fetch without having to bolt for them. I'll probably drop the discard into the Sideboard and focus on removal/counters.
I would like everyone who is running Snapcaster Mage to also try running Familiar's Ruse.
Not only does it let you reuse Spellstutter but playing it and bouncing an in play snappy to counter something only to be able to flash him back in and recast it to bounce the same Snapcaster is crazy town.
I had an opponent simply concede the game when he saw that, he told me I thought I was playing 4/4. I might try it once I can get some more snaps.
I keep trying to throw Familiar's Ruse in, but it's hard because it's not a T1 or T2 counter. I have to look at the card speed wise as the same as cryptic command. It does seem good and I've had someone testifying about how good it is, so I guess I should just finally sleeve a couple up.
hello all i have been playing faeries at my lgs fnm/thnm for probably the last six months having gone from casual kitchen table to buying into poorly thought out UB midrange and now finally settling on faeries and im loving it, its unexpected for my opponent and interactive and difficult and everything i love about magic all rolled up into a tribe, while also having game against tier one decks. I have no problem now that i know the majority of the interactions. here is the decklist i am currently on. http://www.mtgvault.com/justzane/decks/ubfaetribe/
so now i have some questions im basically just looking for some feedback from you guys on, not necessarily definitive answers just feedback.
I have been playing tasigur as a two of, and i have been loving it. its never a card i am disapointed to see in my opening hand or even topdecking it it has definitely won me games just as a 4/5 monster for b or 1b. i have never even used its card drawing ability and thats just icing on the cake. all of that being said, i want to use snapcaster. i see the value inherent in its ability/body and there is a reason it is the most value blue creature in modern, the same reason it is 50+ dollars. plus it is basically a faerie just trapped in a human body. i dont believe i will be able to run both tasigur and snapcaster because they have conflicting actions, one delves/exiles gy and one flashbacks gy. Im wondering if anyone has has any success running both snap and tasi or if anyone has any opinion on which one is more effective in this deck. im asking this now because im considering buying into two snapcasters for this deck.
SLAUGHTER PACT!!! have you guys been running this? ever since i put one into this deck everytime i draw it im so happy to see it. turn one discard turn two BB AND SP can just be so overwhelming for my opponents, that i am considering running more than one. it is just so good!!!
SWORD OF F+F. i might not necessarily keep a hand with this card in it depending on obviously the other cards. but topdecking this and dumping it onto a token or VC or mistbind or even god forbid tasi can just be devastating for an opponent. i have noticed a lot of the lists on here not including it and i just think its too good to not include at least as a SB for grindy matchups or GBx ones. making them discard, proBG, untapping your lands is so ridiculously good, and youre going to say Kcommand and abrupt decay but in my experience and with six discard MB/counters it has just not been relevant. im considering running two.
Finally SCION OF OONA. i have not found this card to be effective whatsoever. if i have BB and one token on the board turn three i am generally not going to want to play this card. it feels to me as they say "winmore" i will be wanting removal or countering , and i find its +1+1/hexproof effect to honestly be lackluster in comparison to other possible plays. it seems really good when i look at it, but in my play testing it has just been a game loser for me, i even try it as specifically a counter target spell targeting my faerie but honestly i would rather play redirect if thats what im playing scion of oona for.
this post is me just generally trying to brew discussion on topics that i find very relevant. i also want to say that i really appreciate that this forum is so active, and your insights have been invaluable in my operating/planning my faeries deck.
P.S
UB FOR LIFE HELL NAH I AINT SPLASHIN NO COLORS IM KEEPIN MY PAINLESS MANABASE and HELL NAH I AINT LOSIN MY DISCARD YOU CRAY????? YOU CRAY??? DISCARD IS OP.
O.P.
As others have said, taisgur just isn't that amazing in this deck because he doesn't help Fae out with any of their issues. He's decent as a 1 of and even that is pushing it. In terms of value Snapcaster is what you should replace the Taisgurs with since he is the best creature in modern. Slaughter pact is a sideboard card because it flat out wiffs against delve creatures which populate the format. I don't understand why people are using the swords or shackles in this meta. Grixis decks will flat out 2 for 1 any of those artifacts with kolghan's command, a card that is seeing play in 30 percent of decks roughly. Why even take the chance? Scion of Oona is either great or terrible. Def a decent sideboard card.
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On mtgsalvation people don't want to discuss ideas, so I give people something else to discuss: my controversial opinions.
After a long hiatus with this deck, I had missed it way too much so I decided to pick the deck back up after making a new decklist that attempts to tackle my aggro hungry meta. My decklist is linked to the bottom. Here is a link as well (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/ub-fae-updated/). Thoughts on using Jace, Vryn's Prodigy in our deck since Fae tend to want kill spells up for use and that he helps us against aggro deck?
I'm not convinced about a $40 merfolk looter that doesn't even get boosted by lords.
I get why he's a big deal in standard but why people are bothering in modern I don't understand.
He dies to bolts, shocks, electrolyze, K.Commands, literally every removal in the format. For what? Draw, discard?
I don't think we're that desperate for a draw engine, but if you're up to testing him then by all means.
I'm not convinced about a $40 merfolk looter that doesn't even get boosted by lords.
I get why he's a big deal in standard but why people are bothering in modern I don't understand.
He dies to bolts, shocks, electrolyze, K.Commands, literally every removal in the format. For what? Draw, discard?
I don't think we're that desperate for a draw engine, but if you're up to testing him then by all means.
Jace has a potentiality to be card advantage. I believe that decks that use new Jace, use delve spells aswell. So it's an enabler to that + possible card advantage after flip.
Atleast that's how I see it. Never played it so don't know how it feels to use.
I'm not convinced about a $40 merfolk looter that doesn't even get boosted by lords.
I get why he's a big deal in standard but why people are bothering in modern I don't understand.
He dies to bolts, shocks, electrolyze, K.Commands, literally every removal in the format. For what? Draw, discard?
I don't think we're that desperate for a draw engine, but if you're up to testing him then by all means.
Judging by your comments I see that you have never faced nor played Jace, Vryn's Prodigy. Jace is alot more than a "merfolk looter" since Jace: basically always flips because the card requirement is low, he stops a creature from being relevant and he flashes back spells. Jace is very good in decks with alot of strong sorceries hence why "blue jund" plays him. Personally, I think that he is worth looking at because faeries has always been a deck with zero card adv besides blossom. He helps us in the biggest area that faeries is weak in (stopping aggro decks and weak card adv). Jace is also not a draw engine, he is a card adv engine, which is way better for us. Jace can also "fog" a blocker by blocking and responding to the damage by flipping himself. Jace only needs to live a turn to take over the game. Funny a 2 drop that dies to everything and needs a turn to take over sounds familiar...dark confidant
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On mtgsalvation people don't want to discuss ideas, so I give people something else to discuss: my controversial opinions.
I don't think Jace is that great in our deck. We aren't filling up our graveyard fast like other decks that use him in modern like thought scour and cheap cantrips so he isn't a guaranteed flip the turn after he comes down and he can sit stranded in your hand for quite some time if you wait until you can flip him the turn after he drops. He's usually either a dead card sitting in your hand or a merfolk looter in our deck.
I'm not convinced about a $40 merfolk looter that doesn't even get boosted by lords.
I get why he's a big deal in standard but why people are bothering in modern I don't understand.
He dies to bolts, shocks, electrolyze, K.Commands, literally every removal in the format. For what? Draw, discard?
I don't think we're that desperate for a draw engine, but if you're up to testing him then by all means.
Judging by your comments I see that you have never faced nor played Jace, Vryn's Prodigy. Jace is alot more than a "merfolk looter" since Jace: basically always flips because the card requirement is low, he stops a creature from being relevant and he flashes back spells. Jace is very good in decks with alot of strong sorceries hence why "blue jund" plays him. Personally, I think that he is worth looking at because faeries has always been a deck with zero card adv besides blossom. He helps us in the biggest area that faeries is weak in (stopping aggro decks and weak card adv). Jace is also not a draw engine, he is a card adv engine, which is way better for us. Jace can also "fog" a blocker by blocking and responding to the damage by flipping himself. Jace only needs to live a turn to take over the game. Funny a 2 drop that dies to everything and needs a turn to take over sounds familiar...dark confidant
I believe you are overlooking the history with Jace Beleren, who was moderately playable and gave solid card advantage, but I dont truly believe jace is the card we are looking for; that might just be my tempo perspective on faeries. I honestly believe that until a card comes out that redefines card draw for us (and not filtering) we should be looking at cards that buy us time or close out the game faster
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Decks I have in my bag of tricks- Needless to say, someone who wants to play will probably have a deck UB/x Faeries UR Storm XURWB Affinity G Elves UW control
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Tasigur is not optimal in faeries, as our sorcery/instant/fetch count is so low, almost all of our high impact cards are permanents. I wouldn't run more than 1 delve card. I rather run Snapcaster, since we will be binning discard, counterspells or removal and reusing them is awesome.
Opponents creatures are 90% of the times better than yours, larger and harder to kill (except you drop in a scion).
Our creatures are better tempowise, but not better in the value they hold on their own on the battlefield.
BTW: You wouldn't be using T3 to pay for the pact, but T4.
I agree SoLaS is the best sword available and SoWaP is also really good, but at this stage I'd rather use Wurmcoil Engine, even in MB.
Scion doesn't give Hexproof, it gives shroud, it's not the same thing.
T1 discard, T2 Discard, T3 Scion -> This is not countering anything, as there isn't anything to target on your side of the board.
Scion doesn't provide 2-for-1s, even less 3-for-1s. if they try to kill something, you cast scion, and then they kill scion it's a 2 for 2, as the first removal also resolves with a legal target.
I find Scion of Oona a really interesting card, as it can counter Abrupt Decay and give awesome Alpha Strikes for the win. It's an average card that can either overperform or underperform in the same matchups, so it depends in your playstyle and deckbuilding processes if you want to include it or not.
UB Painless faeries is good, but not good enough for the format. At least not now. Disregarding color splashes doesn't help to improve the deck, it just limits it.
Countersquall
There's just no room in the deck for this, I believe we all have tried this in the past but no one came with a practical inclusion.
I willing to 100% talk about this with others i honest don't know which one to play they are very close. i agree with 1 delve anymore is pushing it.
100% disagree there is no creature i fear outside of the creatures that are part of combos. gofty arguably the best creature in modern (rhino is 4 mana and should never resolve) dies to everything in the world and can be chumped blocked by tokens/SSP for days.
mistbind clique is a 4/4 flyer that timewalks
glen elendra is beyond dumb in this format
He said turn two BB AND SP and i rather have spellsutter spirte, scion, vend, or any removal or other counter or really anything up.
Protecting BB is more important than any stupid cmc<3 creature (that isnt a combo piece)
war and peace is a weird card i can see where it's a massive beating i can also see where it's just just trash
Wurmcoil is interesting card to think about i think having 6 mana and not having any ETB effects makes it's really hard to use in this format and getting to 6 mana is tough.
First of all why would you cast scion on a empty board it's just like spellshutter sprite very rarely do you just throw them out there and if you do you are in a great position anyways.
With scion you are basically demanding them have both cards in there hand at the same time and the right colors to cast said spells and the fact run 5-6 discard spells makes this extremely unlikely Sure sometimes they will have the nuts but what else could you do?
I 100% disagree splashing completely ruins the deck and makes it worse if you want to splash red you are basically playing a bad version of a much better deck.(grixis is like tier 1-2ish)
You cannot run fetches/shocks with bitterblossom in this format. that's not me saying that's what PV said.
Ok seems fine
you can easily run 4, 3, or 2 card draw spells in this deck no problem.
UB/x Faeries
UR Storm
XURWB Affinity
G Elves
UW control
I've played around with a singleton murderous cut, and sometimes it was amazing, but most of the time I think it is worse than the alternatives. I run a 1-of snapcaster mage in the tasigur slot, and it can be a little awkward, but I like it a lot more than the banana king.
I agree that you shouldn't compare spell pierce to spell snare.
Also, those who've had experience with SoLaS, how much value do you get off the return from gy to hand trigger? Do you usually have the targets to make use of it?
I've run Tasigur and not been too disappointed in the past, and I ran him alongside snapcaster mage and murderous cut. (1 Tasigur, 1 cut, 2 snapcasters) Our tasigurs don't come down as fast as those in grixis, and we don't have quite as many opportunities to activate him on average, since we aren't hard control so we'd still need to hold up (and then use) interaction for our opponent's plays. Currently I've cut Tasigur for Sword of Fire and Ice, but I could see myself going back if my store meta broke the right way.
Slaughter pact is an interesting removal choice. I presently don't run it because being able to kill black creatures with my removal is more important than the upfront cost of zero, but it's not a bad removal spell. Just be careful that you have the mana to pay for it. If you cast it T2, you'll only have 2 mana by the upkeep of T3 since your land drop isn't until your main phase. This should never come up in practice, since most of the 'emergency, kill on sight' cards won't be down until T3 anyways (like exarch), but it is worth pointing out to be careful of.
I run Sword of Feast and Famine right now. It's situational because once both players get into topdeck mode, its power goes down significantly, as it doesn't let you press that advantage to close the game out quickly. Particularly in those grindy matchups, both players will end up low on cards in hand by the time this would stick and the equipped creature would get in, making it less likely to have the full effect you want. I personally like it as the final nail in the coffin of combo decks like scapeshift, as you can pressure their hand while still keeping up countermagic. As a rule, though, I try to diversify my options by running different swords. For example, right now I run 1 SoFI, 1 SoFF, and 1 SoLS in the side, because some matches want certain effects more than others.
I agree about scion, though part of that is my own stance on building Faeries. Scion is not a proactive play unless you already have another threat on board, and scion comes down at an important part in your curve (T3 is when you want to extend your disruption by either SSS to counter their whole turn or V-clique to deploy a fast threat and disrupt their hand, not deploy a 1/1 that doesn't interact with their board at all) in order to begin setting up for Mistbind Clique after T4. Again, there are certain metagames where Scion is powerful, but I don't think that now is one of them.
Personally, I have lost more games to having excess discard in my hand than I have lost by not having a discard T1 and that costing me the game. I'm starting to see the 6 maindeck discard spells as more of a crutch than a necessity in Faeries. Yes, it lets you take 'their best card' and see their hand so you know what else they have. It also guarantees that they can resolve their next spell since you don't have instant-speed interaction held up. If you need discard to protect BB (especially from opposing countermagic), then you are likely trying to play it too recklessly, rather than keeping the board even and picking a spot where interacting with you will be most awkward for your opponent.
Many high-profile twin players write about using 'the fear' of them having the combo to force their opponents to play sub-optimally for fear of just dying if they ever tap out. We can employ a similar tactic, since we have many things that are 'fear'ful, (mistbind, spellstutter, cryptic) that our opponents will try to play around even when we don't have them. Tying up mana for discard spells limits the things they have to be afraid of, and makes it easier for them to deploy their threats in an efficient manner, which is ultimately what we can't deal with.
I'm still working a little on the sideboard (the Hibernations aren't too well-positioned right now, for example, though they have been very good in the past, and they're still my best answer to slippery bogle)
Highlights:
-No Discard Mainboard
Faeries wins by interacting well on the board and on the stack. Thoughtseize does neither of these things, and it also allows the opponent to deploy something else while we can't interact with it, forcing us to spend more time interacting with it later, costing us a lot of tempo in a deck that loses most often to falling behind on board. Cutting discard also allows for the inclusion of other things that have been on the Faeries wishlist for a while, but there has never been room for them. This deck doesn't need discard to win, just smart play.
-Anticipates
People have been suggesting card-draw spells for a while, and running a few Anticipates helps us smooth out our draws on turns where our opponents don't do anything worth countering. I could see cutting these if I need access to more fast interaction (more disfigures, for example), but it is nice to have some way to dig for high-impact sideboard cards. Being able to maintain the illusion that I have a counter/removal while sculpting my hand is also very important, since it encourages opponents to play around things I might not have at all.
-Vapor Snag
Good against opposing delve threats, and sometimes the life-loss gives you a way to swing for lethal out of nowhere once they deploy a stabilizing blocker. 1-mana board interaction is great for us, and bounce is a bit underrated in a deck like this, where the tempo is very important.
-"Painful" Manabase
Not really painful at all. Having lands that can come in untapped at all points of the game (both early for spell snare, disfigure, and late for cryptic, mistbind) is just as important as having a theoretically pain-free manabase that can make casting spells on time potentially awkward (T4 Darkslick Shores?). Running a high number of basics makes me virtually immune to blood moon, and supplementing with a fetch-shock package also allows me to consistently support...
-Vedalken Shackles
This is my trump against aggressive and midrange decks, which have historically been difficult matchups for us. Please note, if you are going to run shackles (as some other posters have suggested at certain points) you need to rebuild your entire manabase to support it. Running only 4 Islands (and no fetches) will only allow you to take ornithopters consistently. My list has 14 functional Islands (including fetches), so I can regularly take Tasigur, Siege Rhino, or Tarmogoyf with Shackles, which can nullify opposing offense almost completely. Make sure you prioritize taking things that trade with their other things so you can get the 2-for-0 when possible.
-What about Abrupt Decay, Kolaghan's Command, ...
I have 4 enchantments and 4 artifacts main, and every single one of them qualifies as a must-answer threat. If they Decay my Bitterblossom, I'll drop a sword. If they Command my sword, I'll slam a Shackles. They will run out of interaction long before I run out of threats that they have to answer with that slice of interaction. Most decks run at most 2 commands and at most 4 decays, with Jund being the only deck that runs both (usually 4-5 cards) that are their only ways to answer my 8 threats. Command doesn't even dodge our countermagic.
-Vampire Nighthawk in the Sideboard
These serve two roles. One is when the lifegain is relevant (usually against burn) where they come in alongside the Sword of Light and Shadow. The other is when the blocker that trades with their big dude is relevant (Jund, Junk). The fact that Nighthawk can completely nullify both a Siege Rhino Attack and the Siege Rhino itself in the same block (compare 'gain 2' to 'trample over for 1') is just the best. Supporting this card is the reason for the Urborg in the maindeck.
Most of the time you won't return anything off the regrowth trigger, but the times that you do it will be absolutely backbreaking to your opponent. I would treat SoLS as only having the gain 3 ability when deciding whether to play it, and treat the regrowth effect like an occasional bonus that can basically lock up the game completely if you hit with it. I run mine in the sideboard as a persistent lifegain source going long that can also occasionally rebuy spellstutters or vendilion cliques in the right matchup.
The sword talk - I have only tested 2 SoLaS and they aren't bad. They could be better, but if they go unanswered, the protection (and pumps) and life gain and creature retrieval are all so good at all stages of the game. There's been many games I've sat with one in hand and been at like 4 mana and I don't want to waste a turn playing it and then waiting... playing and equipping on the same turn or at least playing and still have mana open is way better. It's hit or miss on whether I have a creature to bring back with it, it feels great to return even a spellstutter though.
Spell Snare getting valued low is odd to me, I always love that card. For 1 mana to stop any 2 mana spell, it's always gold in my hand. I think I am running 3 right now, plus 2 spell pierce, 3 remands, and 3 crypics (and 4 spellstutters obv).
I was playing burn the other day and he went first with a goblin guide. I had an IoK in hand with a spell pierce and spell snare. Those were my 3 options. I chose not to cast IoK on turn 1. The result was he played around Spell Snare. He told me afterwards he was afraid I had it. So he chose not to cast his Eidolon and instead he cast a swiftspear and lavamancer. Of course I couldn't counter either of those, so I was in pretty bad shape and indeed ended up losing to lavamancer later after stabilizing against his burn and creatures. But, even looking at it, I think I made the right choice in leaving counter magic open (or removal if I had that). IoK would have grabbed his Eidolon and he would have done the same play he did, or maybe gone more aggressive knowing I was tapped and couldn't spell snare.
I haven't tried any delve cards, but I do run 1 snappy and he's been fine. Sometimes there isn't a card to flashback in the grave but I need a chump blocker, he fills in.
I agree that opening up possibilities is how we will find good fits. Closing doors to a spicy 3rd color splash may be restricting our potential. I agree not to get carried away with it, don't run bolts or paths if you only want a slight splash, you won't consistently have that splash color on T1 or 2 or 3. But maybe throwing in a few white sources for a resto angel or sphinx's rev etc could be something... Just keep your eyes open, but don't get delusional either.
I think vampiric link is a card people keep mentioning, but then I don't see it in many lists. It actually seems a great cheap answer to our life problems.
It does give us something to take out of main deck or to bring into game 2. I know every time I see my friend playing his Soul Sisters and slamming down a Sophie people instantly get a nervous look in their eye.
I'm currently brewing a Shackles Esper list with the new duals to allow running 8 fetch without having to bolt for them. I'll probably drop the discard into the Sideboard and focus on removal/counters.
I would like everyone who is running Snapcaster Mage to also try running Familiar's Ruse.
Not only does it let you reuse Spellstutter but playing it and bouncing an in play snappy to counter something only to be able to flash him back in and recast it to bounce the same Snapcaster is crazy town.
I had an opponent simply concede the game when he saw that, he told me I thought I was playing 4/4. I might try it once I can get some more snaps.
i could see it as 1 of or a max of a 2 of. i wouldn't play the full set of 4
Yes 1 or 2 for a regular Fae shell, the 4 snap/4 ruse was just for a brew to try.
As others have said, taisgur just isn't that amazing in this deck because he doesn't help Fae out with any of their issues. He's decent as a 1 of and even that is pushing it. In terms of value Snapcaster is what you should replace the Taisgurs with since he is the best creature in modern. Slaughter pact is a sideboard card because it flat out wiffs against delve creatures which populate the format. I don't understand why people are using the swords or shackles in this meta. Grixis decks will flat out 2 for 1 any of those artifacts with kolghan's command, a card that is seeing play in 30 percent of decks roughly. Why even take the chance? Scion of Oona is either great or terrible. Def a decent sideboard card.
Decks I'm playing in Modern right now:
URB Grixis Reveler (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-grixis-reveler/)
UB Faeries (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/ub-fae-2/)
UW Azorious Control (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-ojutai-control-2/)
Decks I'm playing in Modern right now:
URB Grixis Reveler (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-grixis-reveler/)
UB Faeries (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/ub-fae-2/)
UW Azorious Control (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-ojutai-control-2/)
I get why he's a big deal in standard but why people are bothering in modern I don't understand.
He dies to bolts, shocks, electrolyze, K.Commands, literally every removal in the format. For what? Draw, discard?
I don't think we're that desperate for a draw engine, but if you're up to testing him then by all means.
Jace has a potentiality to be card advantage. I believe that decks that use new Jace, use delve spells aswell. So it's an enabler to that + possible card advantage after flip.
Atleast that's how I see it. Never played it so don't know how it feels to use.
Judging by your comments I see that you have never faced nor played Jace, Vryn's Prodigy. Jace is alot more than a "merfolk looter" since Jace: basically always flips because the card requirement is low, he stops a creature from being relevant and he flashes back spells. Jace is very good in decks with alot of strong sorceries hence why "blue jund" plays him. Personally, I think that he is worth looking at because faeries has always been a deck with zero card adv besides blossom. He helps us in the biggest area that faeries is weak in (stopping aggro decks and weak card adv). Jace is also not a draw engine, he is a card adv engine, which is way better for us. Jace can also "fog" a blocker by blocking and responding to the damage by flipping himself. Jace only needs to live a turn to take over the game. Funny a 2 drop that dies to everything and needs a turn to take over sounds familiar...dark confidant
Decks I'm playing in Modern right now:
URB Grixis Reveler (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-grixis-reveler/)
UB Faeries (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/ub-fae-2/)
UW Azorious Control (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-ojutai-control-2/)
I believe you are overlooking the history with Jace Beleren, who was moderately playable and gave solid card advantage, but I dont truly believe jace is the card we are looking for; that might just be my tempo perspective on faeries. I honestly believe that until a card comes out that redefines card draw for us (and not filtering) we should be looking at cards that buy us time or close out the game faster
UB/x Faeries
UR Storm
XURWB Affinity
G Elves
UW control