Junk is not a very good matchup. Sower of Temptation is your best friend. They have a hard time removing it. Other options include Deathmark and Damnation. Their spirit tokens are very annoying. At the pro tour, the fae lost 8 out of their 10 matches against Junk. All of our 4-drops are very good against the deck. With tight play, it is possible to kill them. Also, manlands are very important.
In my spreadsheet, I am at a 3 - 1 against Junk and 1 - 0 against anti-Junk, but note the low sampling size. It won't be very realistic to except similar numbers after 20 or so games.
After playing BUG for a few months, I can honestly say that I can barely think of any matchup where I'm not glad to see Tarmogoyf. There are so many decks that don't care about my life total because they win big or combo out (Tron, Nykthos, Twin, Storm), and against those decks the 3-4 life points I have to spend to fetch up green don't matter. In nickel and dime matchup where my life does matter, I either get to save at least that many life points either by blocking or forcing them to spend resources on dealing with Goyf, or I win faster. The highest cost of running Tarmogoyf is that you either have to lower your Faerie count or your answer count by those four slots. That and cutting a manland or two.
By recommendation from an experienced local Faeries player I've started trying out two mainboard Damnations over two of the kill spells, and I like them so far. They saved my ass a lot of times at a PPTQ yesterday. I'd rather side them out when I don't need them than the other way around, there are so many decks that fill the board faster than we can compete with. You'd think it was too symmetrical, especially in a list with Goyfs, but they win me games.
As I said, I do not own Goyfs. If I would I would definitely try out BUG Faeries or BUG control. The thing is, and maybe I am extremely off on that, Spellstutter sprite is our way to efficiently deal with several tricks or threats and 2 for 1. Playing straight UB with the full SSS/Mistbind/Vendilion/BB generates a much more different play which can be accompanied by a similar spell suit (counters, removals, discards) but it plays on another pace. In BUG Fae with goyfs my guess is that sometimes you could switch on a BG style with early goyfs into remove all the threats/discard all the threats. Straigh UB control lists give you the ability to go long where your manlands or a mistbind lock will win you the game.
In the damnation part, for me there are here to stay and I think every and all Fae lists should run 1-2 Damnations mainboard depending on the game plan.
After playing BUG for a few months, I can honestly say that I can barely think of any matchup where I'm not glad to see Tarmogoyf. There are so many decks that don't care about my life total because they win big or combo out (Tron, Nykthos, Twin, Storm), and against those decks the 3-4 life points I have to spend to fetch up green don't matter. In nickel and dime matchup where my life does matter, I either get to save at least that many life points either by blocking or forcing them to spend resources on dealing with Goyf, or I win faster. The highest cost of running Tarmogoyf is that you either have to lower your Faerie count or your answer count by those four slots. That and cutting a manland or two.
By recommendation from an experienced local Faeries player I've started trying out two mainboard Damnations over two of the kill spells, and I like them so far. They saved my ass a lot of times at a PPTQ yesterday. I'd rather side them out when I don't need them than the other way around, there are so many decks that fill the board faster than we can compete with. You'd think it was too symmetrical, especially in a list with Goyfs, but they win me games.
I never considered damnation in the main when I had BUG. I look forward to seeing your thought on them later on as well.
Would you mind posting your list?
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There is no reason being friendly and being competitive can't be synonymous.
maybe I'm missing something, but doesn't damnation undo our board state? we don't have ANY good topdecks...
You play around it, basically. It's usually not a problem if you get it early and play it on turn four (which against many decks is just early enough). I usually spend the first few turns dicking around with counters, removal and Bitterblossom anyway. There are times where you top deck it later and you don't want to play it because you have an established board, but that probably means that you're ahead. But we don't have the biggest creatures, and unless we have an established Bitterblossom, we certainly don't have the most, so sometimes blowing everything up off of a top decked Damnation is in our favor. Delver and Little Kid Abzan and some other decks can just go too wide for us to handle.
It's still a WIP, but since you ask, this is where I am right now. Cutting the fourth Mutavault is a new thing that I did when I added the Damnations and the Victim, and I'm not sure if it's necessary. I'm also cannot vouch for 26 lands, just trying it out.
Did we just get the craziest anti Tarmogoyf, anti Siege Rhino, anti Boggles card or what?!
With 1B, isn't it just better to GftT Tarmo or Rhino? Sorcery speed doesn't impress me. :/
It is a sideboard card, not a mainboard card. I would suggest it goes in the place of Deathmark (also sorcery) because it is more versatile (kills boggles).
Did we just get the craziest anti Tarmogoyf, anti Siege Rhino, anti Boggles card or what?!
With 1B, isn't it just better to GftT Tarmo or Rhino? Sorcery speed doesn't impress me. :/
It is a sideboard card, not a mainboard card. I would suggest it goes in the place of Deathmark (also sorcery) because it is more versatile (kills boggles).
Is Cruel Edict just better in that case, cause it hit's other things? Or do you think Kor Spiritdancer is a problem when dealing with hexproof?
I was thinking that aswell, but then I realised that you will be using 3 mana for it and there's better cards for that. Is the Force Spike effect useful on 2 mana though?
Did we just get the craziest anti Tarmogoyf, anti Siege Rhino, anti Boggles card or what?!
With 1B, isn't it just better to GftT Tarmo or Rhino? Sorcery speed doesn't impress me. :/
It is a sideboard card, not a mainboard card. I would suggest it goes in the place of Deathmark (also sorcery) because it is more versatile (kills boggles).
Is Cruel Edict just better in that case, cause it hit's other things? Or do you think Kor Spiritdancer is a problem when dealing with hexproof?
The thing is that it combines 2 thing on one card. If we needed to run Cruel Edict and Deathmark at the SB we would need 4 SB slots which are a lot. This card can hit the things we want with Deathmark (Tarmogoyf and siege rhino) while at the same time is suitable for the boggles match up. So versatility is why I think it is good.
Did we just get the craziest anti Tarmogoyf, anti Siege Rhino, anti Boggles card or what?!
With 1B, isn't it just better to GftT Tarmo or Rhino? Sorcery speed doesn't impress me. :/
It is a sideboard card, not a mainboard card. I would suggest it goes in the place of Deathmark (also sorcery) because it is more versatile (kills boggles).
Is Cruel Edict just better in that case, cause it hit's other things? Or do you think Kor Spiritdancer is a problem when dealing with hexproof?
The thing is that it combines 2 thing on one card. If we needed to run Cruel Edict and Deathmark at the SB we would need 4 SB slots which are a lot. This card can hit the things we want with Deathmark (Tarmogoyf and siege rhino) while at the same time is suitable for the boggles match up. So versatility is why I think it is good.
What I ment was Cruel Edict vs Self-Inflicted Wounds. Is the 2 damage that important to "gimp" the spell to work only on green and white creatures?
Just realised that Kor still protects from the sac effect.
What I ment was Cruel Edict vs Self-Inflicted Wounds. Is the 2 damage that important to "gimp" the spell to work only on green and white creatures?
Just realised that Kor still protects from the sac effect.
Edit: Cruel would hit Tasigur aswell if needed.
The green and white is what is important. Again, i suggest this as a sideboard card.
Currently most of us are playing deathmark in the sideboard, which is a 1 mana sorcery that kills Tarmogoys and Rhinos most of the time.
Also currently most of us don't have a sacrifice effect in the sideboard to battle Boggles (sacrifice effects being one of the most efficient ways to deal with them).
Now we get a sorcery, which is +1 colorless mana, which should be irrelevant in these matches, that hits tarmogoyfs and rhinos (these decks will mostly have 1-2 creatures on the board anyway) which can also kill Boggles, thus saving us space in the sideboard. Not to mention the fact that it can kill Thrun...
The green and white is what is important. Again, i suggest this as a sideboard card.
I get you that it's SB card.
What I don't understand, why "sacrifice green/white creature" is better than "sacrifice creature". What would protect the sacrifice effect on those decks that I can't think of or do you think the life loss is that important that you want to limit this spell only to affect against these decks?
I hope I made my point here now. Maybe we are saying the same argument here, but I can't see it.
Are the sac effects that potent/guaranteed against junk with all of the souls running around? Or do you guys have some sweet tech for handling the souls? I currently am playing with the mainboard damnations posted previously but without drawing 1 of those 2 - and having them over-commit, i can't seem to profitably clear them out (especially when my fairy tokens are 1/1s, vendilion only has 1 toughness, etc). Thanks in advance for the thoughts/info!
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In my spreadsheet, I am at a 3 - 1 against Junk and 1 - 0 against anti-Junk, but note the low sampling size. It won't be very realistic to except similar numbers after 20 or so games.
DECKS:
UB Faeries [Midrange/Tempo]
RWUGB Affinity[Aggro]
FAERIES TOO STRONK!!!1111
- Fae Prophecy, 201
5678By recommendation from an experienced local Faeries player I've started trying out two mainboard Damnations over two of the kill spells, and I like them so far. They saved my ass a lot of times at a PPTQ yesterday. I'd rather side them out when I don't need them than the other way around, there are so many decks that fill the board faster than we can compete with. You'd think it was too symmetrical, especially in a list with Goyfs, but they win me games.
Stay reasonable, be mindful of your expectations and don't feed the trolls.
Doomsdayin'
In the damnation part, for me there are here to stay and I think every and all Fae lists should run 1-2 Damnations mainboard depending on the game plan.
UB Faeries (15-6-0)
UWR Control (10-5-1)/Kiki Control/Midrange/Harbinger
UBR Cruel Control (6-4-0)/Grixis Control/Delver/Blue Jund
UWB Control/Mentor
UW Miracles/Control (currently active, 14-2-0)
BW Eldrazi & Taxes
RW Burn (9-1-0)
I do (academic) research on video games and archaeology! You can check out my open access book here: https://www.sidestone.com/books/the-interactive-past
UB Faeries (15-6-0)
UWR Control (10-5-1)/Kiki Control/Midrange/Harbinger
UBR Cruel Control (6-4-0)/Grixis Control/Delver/Blue Jund
UWB Control/Mentor
UW Miracles/Control (currently active, 14-2-0)
BW Eldrazi & Taxes
RW Burn (9-1-0)
I do (academic) research on video games and archaeology! You can check out my open access book here: https://www.sidestone.com/books/the-interactive-past
I never considered damnation in the main when I had BUG. I look forward to seeing your thought on them later on as well.
Would you mind posting your list?
It's still a WIP, but since you ask, this is where I am right now. Cutting the fourth Mutavault is a new thing that I did when I added the Damnations and the Victim, and I'm not sure if it's necessary. I'm also cannot vouch for 26 lands, just trying it out.
2 Vendilion Clique
1 Scion of Oona
3 Mistbind Clique
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Bitterblossom
1 Victim of Night
1 Dismember
2 Damnation
2 Thoughtseize
3 Cryptic Command
3 Mana Leak
2 Spell Snare
4 Polluted Delta
3 Misty Rainforest
1 Watery Grave
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Breeding Pool
4 Darkslick Shores
2 Secluded Glen
1 River of Tears
2 Creeping Tar Pit
3 Mutavault
1 Swamp
3 Island
Stay reasonable, be mindful of your expectations and don't feed the trolls.
Doomsdayin'
Did we just get the craziest anti Tarmogoyf, anti Siege Rhino, anti Boggles card or what?!
UB Faeries (15-6-0)
UWR Control (10-5-1)/Kiki Control/Midrange/Harbinger
UBR Cruel Control (6-4-0)/Grixis Control/Delver/Blue Jund
UWB Control/Mentor
UW Miracles/Control (currently active, 14-2-0)
BW Eldrazi & Taxes
RW Burn (9-1-0)
I do (academic) research on video games and archaeology! You can check out my open access book here: https://www.sidestone.com/books/the-interactive-past
With 1B, isn't it just better to GftT Tarmo or Rhino? Sorcery speed doesn't impress me. :/
UB Faeries (15-6-0)
UWR Control (10-5-1)/Kiki Control/Midrange/Harbinger
UBR Cruel Control (6-4-0)/Grixis Control/Delver/Blue Jund
UWB Control/Mentor
UW Miracles/Control (currently active, 14-2-0)
BW Eldrazi & Taxes
RW Burn (9-1-0)
I do (academic) research on video games and archaeology! You can check out my open access book here: https://www.sidestone.com/books/the-interactive-past
Is Cruel Edict just better in that case, cause it hit's other things? Or do you think Kor Spiritdancer is a problem when dealing with hexproof?
Like it, like it...
DECKS:
UB Faeries [Midrange/Tempo]
RWUGB Affinity[Aggro]
FAERIES TOO STRONK!!!1111
- Fae Prophecy, 201
5678I was thinking that aswell, but then I realised that you will be using 3 mana for it and there's better cards for that. Is the Force Spike effect useful on 2 mana though?
UB Faeries (15-6-0)
UWR Control (10-5-1)/Kiki Control/Midrange/Harbinger
UBR Cruel Control (6-4-0)/Grixis Control/Delver/Blue Jund
UWB Control/Mentor
UW Miracles/Control (currently active, 14-2-0)
BW Eldrazi & Taxes
RW Burn (9-1-0)
I do (academic) research on video games and archaeology! You can check out my open access book here: https://www.sidestone.com/books/the-interactive-past
What I ment was Cruel Edict vs Self-Inflicted Wounds. Is the 2 damage that important to "gimp" the spell to work only on green and white creatures?
Just realised that Kor still protects from the sac effect.
Edit: Cruel would hit Tasigur aswell if needed.
DECKS:
UB Faeries [Midrange/Tempo]
RWUGB Affinity[Aggro]
FAERIES TOO STRONK!!!1111
- Fae Prophecy, 201
5678You need to control the dragon when you cast the spell. So you need to first activate Mutavault, then cast it. So that's 3 mana for me.
Edit: nevermind
Currently most of us are playing deathmark in the sideboard, which is a 1 mana sorcery that kills Tarmogoys and Rhinos most of the time.
Also currently most of us don't have a sacrifice effect in the sideboard to battle Boggles (sacrifice effects being one of the most efficient ways to deal with them).
Now we get a sorcery, which is +1 colorless mana, which should be irrelevant in these matches, that hits tarmogoyfs and rhinos (these decks will mostly have 1-2 creatures on the board anyway) which can also kill Boggles, thus saving us space in the sideboard. Not to mention the fact that it can kill Thrun...
UB Faeries (15-6-0)
UWR Control (10-5-1)/Kiki Control/Midrange/Harbinger
UBR Cruel Control (6-4-0)/Grixis Control/Delver/Blue Jund
UWB Control/Mentor
UW Miracles/Control (currently active, 14-2-0)
BW Eldrazi & Taxes
RW Burn (9-1-0)
I do (academic) research on video games and archaeology! You can check out my open access book here: https://www.sidestone.com/books/the-interactive-past
I get you that it's SB card.
What I don't understand, why "sacrifice green/white creature" is better than "sacrifice creature". What would protect the sacrifice effect on those decks that I can't think of or do you think the life loss is that important that you want to limit this spell only to affect against these decks?
I hope I made my point here now. Maybe we are saying the same argument here, but I can't see it.