I've been testing two think twices myself lately, however only got to test them against naya zoo. And I boarded em out anyways. So not got to use em much, its nice tho to know that you can hold up mana for counters and such and if nothing happens, just cycle it. And late game flash it back to look for that card you need later game.
I'm on the 25 land plan ATM, no tec edges, 4 river 4 shocks 4 darkslick, 4 mutavaults, 2 swamp, 5 island, 2 tar pit. Tar pits are amazing. Mana sink late game, guaranteed damage to enemy walkers if they stick one. And a decent Clock if you've controlled the board and need bb faeries for blocking duty.
I kind of want to try maindeck bile blight...maybe as a one or two of. Double black can be a little awkward sometimes, but not super hard to hit in my build. And being able to psuedo one sided board wipe against zoo is insane
I played some more solo games postboard with Faeries on the play against Lantern's Fast Zoo list. I went 8-2, which I think is impressive. In retrospect, the sideboarding for Zoo was questionable but my sideboard in general was a mess so it should have evened out. For reference, here are the lists.
For the Faeries deck, I took out Mistbind Clique, Bitterblossom, and Condescend and brought in both Elesh Norns (in retrospect I only need one of each creature in there), Hibernation, Gifts Ungiven, and Unburial Rites. For the Zoo deck, I took out Experiment One and Vexing Devil and brought in Destructive Revelry, Boros Charm, and Thalia (I should have taken out the Ghor-Clan Rampagers). The matchup improved enormously after this. Hibernation and Engineered Explosives with counterspell backup easily bought me enough time to Gifts Ungiven for Unbuial Rites and Elesh Norn. That usually allowed me to easily win. I think that after I do postboard testing against Zoo with them on the play, I will remove the extra Griselbrand and Elesh Norn from the sideboard, add another white source to my main deck, and possibly add Mana Tithe replacing Condescend.
Well we run disruption and counters as like as the other common tempo decks, a turn 3 karn can randomly met mana leak remand and spell pierce negate at least, comparing to the Twin plan where it commoly sides in blood moon or molten rain there's no substantial difference. The Tron MU is something to be more explored surely. Damnation in Pod MU can run into situation where voice and finks will still beating you down and eot exarch while you are tapping 4 for it can mean facing the combo off...
Yeah we have a hefty amount of disruption sure, I was just explaining why I like spreading seas over 3 mana LD spells. They both have very clear pros and cons so it is definitely hard to say which one is better than the other. This is of course assuming that there even IS a better or worse between the two for that matter. Cheaper + cantrip makes me want the seas, but I'm willing to admit that is incorrect.
I've tried snapcasters before and I typically have to count them as a 4 mana spell since snapping back a discard spell is a 3 mana sorcery discard which we usually won't want or even need. That combined with a lower-ish spell count makes me not want too many. However in the games I tried with them as a 1 of I was always happy to see it on like turn 7 but would always wish it was a basic mountain before then. So it's tough to say weather or not they belong in the current lists that have been floating around. I wouldn't be surprised either way, but at the moment I'm leaning towards 1 or 0.
I've taken to following a basic formula for the lists that I've been messing with that seems to be in the ballpark of ideal. Here's the design constraints I've been working with:
Well we run disruption and counters as like as the other common tempo decks, a turn 3 karn can randomly met mana leak remand and spell pierce negate at least, comparing to the Twin plan where it commoly sides in blood moon or molten rain there's no substantial difference. The Tron MU is something to be more explored surely. Damnation in Pod MU can run into situation where voice and finks will still beating you down and eot exarch while you are tapping 4 for it can mean facing the combo off...
Yeah we have a hefty amount of disruption sure, I was just explaining why I like spreading seas over 3 mana LD spells. They both have very clear pros and cons so it is definitely hard to say which one is better than the other. This is of course assuming that there even IS a better or worse between the two for that matter. Cheaper + cantrip makes me want the seas, but I'm willing to admit that is incorrect.
I've tried snapcasters before and I typically have to count them as a 4 mana spell since snapping back a discard spell is a 3 mana sorcery discard which we usually won't want or even need. That combined with a lower-ish spell count makes me not want too many. However in the games I tried with them as a 1 of I was always happy to see it on like turn 7 but would always wish it was a basic mountain before then. So it's tough to say weather or not they belong in the current lists that have been floating around. I wouldn't be surprised either way, but at the moment I'm leaning towards 1 or 0.
I've taken to following a basic formula for the lists that I've been messing with that seems to be in the ballpark of ideal. Here's the design constraints I've been working with:
Well we run disruption and counters as like as the other common tempo decks, a turn 3 karn can randomly met mana leak remand and spell pierce negate at least, comparing to the Twin plan where it commoly sides in blood moon or molten rain there's no substantial difference. The Tron MU is something to be more explored surely. Damnation in Pod MU can run into situation where voice and finks will still beating you down and eot exarch while you are tapping 4 for it can mean facing the combo off...
Yeah we have a hefty amount of disruption sure, I was just explaining why I like spreading seas over 3 mana LD spells. They both have very clear pros and cons so it is definitely hard to say which one is better than the other. This is of course assuming that there even IS a better or worse between the two for that matter. Cheaper + cantrip makes me want the seas, but I'm willing to admit that is incorrect.
I've tried snapcasters before and I typically have to count them as a 4 mana spell since snapping back a discard spell is a 3 mana sorcery discard which we usually won't want or even need. That combined with a lower-ish spell count makes me not want too many. However in the games I tried with them as a 1 of I was always happy to see it on like turn 7 but would always wish it was a basic mountain before then. So it's tough to say weather or not they belong in the current lists that have been floating around. I wouldn't be surprised either way, but at the moment I'm leaning towards 1 or 0.
I've taken to following a basic formula for the lists that I've been messing with that seems to be in the ballpark of ideal. Here's the design constraints I've been working with:
Decks I have in my bag of tricks- Needless to say, someone who wants to play will probably have a deck UB/x Faeries UR Storm XURWB Affinity G Elves UW control
you know i was just thinking this was pretty spot on myself. Im just not sure which of scion/swords Id actually play better personally
Well thank you. I spoke on scions vs swords earlier and decided that it's very meta dependent and weather we need to slide towards control or aggro in the current meta. With zoo being a thing and our ability to smash a number of control/combo decks we don't need to be too agressive atm, so I think that scions aren't where we want to be SPECIFICALLY right now. This can easily change a month from now or whenever the next modern GP is and then we'll dump the swords and just jam 4 scions.
As for my "formula" for my current fae list, here's a bit of a more specific listing.
4 blossom
do not touch!
4 cryptic
do not touch!
25 lands
4 vaults and 3 tar pits
You can include 1 colorless value land if running 25, 2 colorless lands if running 26 total lands. Any more and you'll have too many mana problems for the deck to function.
After deciding on them add in colored sources based on personal preference and blood moon fear level.
4-5 discard
Start with 3 thoughtseize before adding the first IoK. Taking pods, cryptics, and everything from Tron is too important in those matches to miss with IoK. If you aren't running fetches/shocks you can afford to pay the life for thoughtseize without too much trouble. That being said you don't want to run all 4.
5 spot removal
Entirely based on the current meta. I'm currently using 2 smother, 2 GFtT, 1 agony warp.
4-5 cheap counter spells
4 mana leaks or 3 leaks and 2 spell snare. If you want more you can look into remands, but the fourth mana leak should be put in before the first remand.
10 creatures
The bare minimum faerie package. 4 mist bind, 4 spell stutter, 2 vendillion. If adding in snaps, you can afford to cut a discard spell for one and maybe a counter spell if you really, really want a second. Remember, snap casters are either a 3 mana sorcery speed spell for discard, or a 4 mana instant with a packed 4 drop slot. A 2/1 body isn't overly relevant when you're running 4 bitterblossom and no blinks.
2-4 swords/scions
This is an aggro control deck and this section determines where you're biased to. 2 swords and 2 other pieces of interaction if you want to be more controlling, or 4 scions if you want to be more aggro. Both sides have their merit and depends on what you're expecting. Currently I think a control bias is better, but again, this can change monthly. When running scions, I've added 2 from this slot and cut 1 counter and 1 discard spell.
25 lands
4 vaults and 3 tar pits
You can include 1 colorless value land if running 25, 2 colorless lands if running 26 total lands. Any more and you'll have too many mana problems for the deck to function.
After deciding on them add in colored sources based on personal preference and blood moon fear level.
Hmm, I was more in the comfort range of 2 tar pits.
25 lands
4 vaults and 3 tar pits
You can include 1 colorless value land if running 25, 2 colorless lands if running 26 total lands. Any more and you'll have too many mana problems for the deck to function.
After deciding on them add in colored sources based on personal preference and blood moon fear level.
Hmm, I was more in the comfort range of 2 tar pits.
I currently don't run any and it has been working well for me.
you know i was just thinking this was pretty spot on myself. Im just not sure which of scion/swords Id actually play better personally
Well thank you. I spoke on scions vs swords earlier and decided that it's very meta dependent and weather we need to slide towards control or aggro in the current meta. With zoo being a thing and our ability to a number of control/combo decks we don't need to be too agressive atm, so I think that scions aren't where we want to be SPECIFICALLY right now. This can easily change a month from now or whenever the next modern GP is and then we'll dump the swords and just jam 4 scions.
As for my "formula" for my current fae list, here's a bit of a more specific listing.
4 blossom
do not touch!
4 cryptic
do not touch!
25 lands
4 vaults and 3 tar pits
You can include 1 colorless value land if running 25, 2 colorless lands if running 26 total lands. Any more and you'll have too many mana problems for the deck to function.
After deciding on them add in colored sources based on personal preference and level.
4-5 discard
Start with 3 before adding the first IoK. Taking pods, cryptics, and everything from Tron is too important in those matches to miss with IoK. If you aren't running fetches/shocks you can afford to pay the life for without too much trouble. That being said you don't want to run all 4.
5 spot removal
Entirely based on the current meta. I'm currently using 2 , 2 GFtT, 1 .
4-5 cheap counter spells
4 or 3 leaks and 2 . If you want more you can look into s but the fourth should be put in before the first .
10 creatures
The bare minimum faerie package. 4 mist , 4 spell stutter, 2 vendillion. If adding in s you can afford to cut a discard spell for one and maybe a counter spell if you really, really want a second. Remember, casters are either a 3 mana sorcery speed spell for discard, or a 4 mana instant with a packed 4 drop slot. A 2/1 body isn't overly relevant when you're running 4 and no blinks.
2-4 swords/scions
This is an aggro control deck and this section determines where you're biased to. 2 swords and 2 other pieces of interaction if you want to be more controlling, or 4 scions if you want to be more aggro. Both sides have their merit and depends on what you're expecting. Currently I think a control bias is better, but again, this can change monthly. When running scions, I've added 2 from this slot and cut 1 counter and 1 discard spell.
I like snapcaster very much, so i go with 11 creatures and play just one as a flexible additional spells. He can be a removal a counter and even a discard spell. And while wielding a sword he can be also a beater. For me he's just value.
I would cut a card from the sword/scion slot the one i'm least sold to.
My take:
25 land (4 muta 2 pit)
11 creatures (1 tiago)
4 BB
4 CC
5 Discards (3 seize 2 IoK)
5 counters (2 snare not sure about Mana Leak or Remand, i like the latter because of the cycle ability in the spots where neither leak or are useful)
5 Removals (this is the more flexible spot, right now i'm on 2 Agony Warp, 2 Smother and 1 Doom Blade; but i'd like to read more discussion on it cause i think is a crucial topic in much diverse creatures format like modern)
1 SoLaS (the best one from my testing, i tested also SoFaF and SoFaI, and i'm looking at SoWaP)
- L
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"The problem isn't when Scissors says Rock is overpowered, it's when Paper says it is."
-Mark Rosewater
Hmm I've thought about sword of war and peace a few times but haven't tested it myself as it just doesn't seem that good in our deck. By the time we actually have the space to connect with it, nobody will have many cards, if any, in hand at that point as we're riding BB and tar pits to victory. The main reason I'm interested in is it's more residual life gain which we can definitely use with U/R/x decks. Between electrolyze helix and bolt we're in legitimate danger of being burned out.
Does anybody know of any worthwhile life gain cards we might run? I'd run a pair of pharika's cure, but I don't like it for the same reasons a lot of people don't like disfigure right now. Loxodon war hammer is nice, but insanely expensive, same with batterskull in a lot of matches. Tribute to hunger is nice, but rarely will give you more than 2 life. I'm very unfamiliar with most of the legal sets in modern outside of what shows up in tier 1-2 decks over the past year or two. I'm really trying to think of more cards that might squeak their way into our precious few flex slots.
Dear god what I wouldn't give to be able to play force spike. Talk about insanity with a scion build...
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And on that day, Garfield said unto the world "Go ye forth and durdle!"
If you have so much problem with burn decks (basic faeries weakness) run chalice of the void or leyline of sanctity, or more spellskites.
It's not burn decks, but decks with burn AND counter magic. Against burn you can just slam a mistbind and stomp them, but that doesn't work so easy against UWR control or twin. I'd like to run chalice, but any deck I've ever run it in, it seems like a 4 or 0 type of card and SB slots are very precious. Granted I only really played it in legacy so I'm totally willing to admit I'm completely off base on that. But aside from zoo, what decks are extremely 1 drop centric and would still hurt if you didn't drop a chalice for 1 until like turn 9? It seems like chalice on 1 would be awesome against tron if you land it on turn 2 for the same reason stony silence is great, but casting it on turn 5+ makes it seem a little iffy. Am I wrong here?
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And on that day, Garfield said unto the world "Go ye forth and durdle!"
Also guys, consider shadow of doubt for pod MU. With our good removal/counter they (should) have limited access to fetching creature so with a shadow of doubt we disrupt an entire turn, if not the entire game. I also like the spreading seas mentioned by Udrew for the MU.
you are not siding in spellskite vs ur pyromancer, you are going for the attrition plan. don't side out discard...
I can add few tips about Pod MU. I found it playable (I lost game 1 keeping 1 island 1 muta seven hand, and drawing 2 more muta in a case) but after sideboard spreading seas is really useful i cutted down its mana and still drawing, disfigure on its hierarch and still racing (creeping sealed the deal). Prolly fulminator mage is a bit slower but more effective cause it totally strips away a land.
Why not spellskite? I side -1 BB -1 Warp +2 kite for sure.
Pod MU in my experience is fair/good as long a Pod doesn't stick, especially vs Kiki Pod. By that i came to the conclusion that 2 cage (useful also for some random vengivine/gift deck) are a nice addition, if it sticks you problem is only pridemage and disrupt the combo if they draw it (prolly they side out the chord).
Also guys, consider shadow of doubt for pod MU. With our good removal/counter they (should) have limited access to fetching creature so with a shadow of doubt we disrupt an entire turn, if not the entire game. I also like the spreading seas mentioned by Udrew for the MU.
No no, I run 2 'skites, if anything the slots for chalice would of been those 2 + 1 more because you're never gonna wanna play it on 2 and 3 is unrealistic. UWR is a good matchup, UR is a totally different story and I believe it's a bad one depending on our draws. Basically it comes down to them slamming delver before we get blossom, the rest is topdeck luck + good play. They have a lot of burn though, and that + blood moon makes 2 angles of attack to stop. You can't tappout for 'skite and get 'mooned t3...
But if you're on the play and you can land chalice t2, the rest is straight forward and you can feel less pressure. No bolts, delvers, burst, magma spraw, serum visions, snares, pierces...You just ahve to deal with that t1 delver or t2 pyromancer (asuming you sided out discard ofc) but since we get explosives and damnation it shouldn't be a problem. That's why I prefere chalice to 'skite even if it's slightly worse against boggles and twin. But against twin we're favored and boggles, we have explosives and stuff.
you are not siding in spellskite vs ur pyromancer, you are going for the attrition plan. don't side out discard...
I can add few tips about Pod MU. I found it playable (I lost game 1 keeping 1 island 1 muta seven hand, and drawing 2 more muta in a case) but after sideboard spreading seas is really useful i cutted down its mana and still drawing, disfigure on its hierarch and still racing (creeping sealed the deal). Prolly fulminator mage is a bit slower but more effective cause it totally strips away a land.
Of course you would side in Spellskite, why shouldn't you? They are playing at least 12 + 4 Snapcaster Burn spells and if you don't manage to stick a Bitterblossom a resolved Spellskite is your best friend. Especially because Spellskite + SoFaI is game against them. I would totally agree that you don't side out discard though, otherwise sticking a Bitterblossom/progressing your gameplan can be much harder. I guess this matchup is at least even, but I feel we are slightly favored. 60/40 preboard to ~50/50 postboard I would guess.
Edit: I just saw you said Pyromancer.. they still play 10 burn spells, but I don't know if Spell Skite makes the cut here. Basic focus is destroying the Pyromancer. Sticking a Blossom should be easier as they don't play 12 + 4 Counters though
Edit 2: Especially against Pyromancer discard can be a key to success: They mostly keep subpar hands with cantrips to filter, so stripping key spells can easily be gamewinning
@Udrew
A card that shut down +10 burn spell and 4 snapcaster while blocking random shenanigans is that bad? Eat their pyromancers while they burn you alive. Also not all the lists play Pyros, at least on modo.
But w/e we can't agree on all right Smile ?
Btw Cage is great but if you side it in against Living End you're gonna have bad time Wink
affinity is hard, pod is a skill matchup but even, Tron is fine unless they nut draw and you keep a poor hand, splinter twin is a free win for faeries. .
chalice feels pretty weak overall. sometimes locks out an opponent, sometimes means you basically mulled to six because it's useless. you shouldn't be putting cute things into your board, put in things that will always be good.
Wait a second they run 4 lightning bolt, and then pillar of flame (sorcery speed), magma spray (no damage to player), electrolyze (it avoids spellskite plaied in the right way), and burst lightning; do you really care so much about it other then removing all their critters with disfigure (and on)?
Let me ask you another question: Do you think keeping Agony Warp + random Spell is really that much better than negating all their burn + having a body that is more than awesome with the swords? You should remember that they can play all their spells at instant speed as well while playing a tight tempo game. I don't really know if Skite is worth the spot but it's no bad choice either as gaining an "invincible" "beater" sounds okay to me.
Of course you would side in Spellskite, why shouldn't you? They are playing at least 12 + 4 Snapcaster Burn spells and if you don't manage to stick a Bitterblossom a resolved Spellskite is your best friend. Especially because Spellskite + SoFaI is game against them.
I'm glad somebody mentioned this because a lot of people tend to forget that the old 0/4 actually does NOT have defender. I remember a few standard seasons ago seeing an infect player beat the snot out of somebody with a skite with a rancor or three on it teehee.
As for our different match ups, A lot of people have covered the big ones. Zoo depends on their build, if they're 1 drop centric we are not favored at all in game 1, our G1 against turbo 1 drop zoo is so bad it's laughable imo. However it does improve drastically after board with EE, damnation, deathmark, skites, and so forth. But the version that goes up to 3-4 drops our match up is the opposite and is painfully easy as it is with any other dorky mid range deck.
With merfolk if you're playing at a GP just win the first 3 rounds and forget it exists. You beat it by letting tron, uwr, twin, rock, pod, etc all beat it for you. But if you're just in a local tournament treat it as any other slow aggro deck. If they have vial out you'll have to race, which makes the match mindless since nobody can block anything. If they don't have vial on 1 or get choked with them you'll beat them so bad they'll need new sleeves. Slow aggro decks without counter magic or burn just aren't that good and aside from the odd spell pierce/snare I've never seen much of any counters from merfolk. If it's a more aggressive version with burn and soft counters, it'll be a fun match but in our favor, but requiring tight play rather than just facerolling.
Against GB/x liliana and goyf decks they can stop our BB with ease but can't interact with much else. AD can't hit our tar pits which will slaughter any walkers they land and none of their removal aside from a single pulse can kill mistbind, which they shouldn't have left in hand for that matter once we cast it. With as much as these decks have lost I don't think they're strong enough to compete anymore, which is a little sad imo even though I never ran any of those lists personally.
Against delver variants, BB is leagues better than pyromaster and our tempo swings are infinitely larger than theirs so don't worry too much about them honestly. For affinity just land a blossom and chump away, lingering souls was already a hard card for them to beat. Also pray etched champion plus plating never comes online, just like literally every other deck in the format.
The matches we should really be concerned with are pod variants, 1 drop zoo, UWR mid-range (geist, dragon, resto version), twin. The rest are greatly in our favor while these matches are much closer to 60% for us or for them. I'm mostly afraid of the pod decks as they can easily out value us and mana dorks make our best card much less impressive. The UWR decks just need a lot of tight play and solid decision making with discard and cliques.
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And on that day, Garfield said unto the world "Go ye forth and durdle!"
Hi everybody!
I would like to ask the U/B Faes community how went the testing against:
1. Affinity
2. Splinter Twin
3. Pod based deck (Melira and Kiki)
4. GR Tron
I feel that we have little chances against Affinity (too fast, we need mass removals in sideboard), Emrakul (not counterable, nor removable), or Splinter Twin (they basically win the counterspell war and dodge all the removals).
Our clock is too slow compared to GR Tron or Twin in order to outrace them.
1 You can win game 1 especially if cranial plating would not see the board (spell snare, spell pierce, disruption). Hurkyll totally switch off them, watch out to opposite spell pierce or other tricks
2 Twin is a good match up if blood moon doesn't hit the board (the same cards you are using to stop the combo are good to avoid it, disruption spell pierce...)
3 Too complicate to go deep into it now, this will always be a skillful MU for both sides
4 RG Tron is surely something you can handle if the deck is built correctly. You have a pretty fast clock when you stop their pace (MISTBIND CLIQUE), you can find stuffs from the sideboard too. Cryptic command, vendilion clique, and thoughtseize are answers to Emrakul
I'm sorry but I've got to disagree with you, I'm not very sold on your statements.
1. Sure, Hurkyll's Recall after game 1 is a good choice, but the first game, even without Cranial Plating is not fair. We got to go to game 2 and 3, hoping to see sideboard's cards.
2. After they land a Pestermite or a Deceiver Exarch, is 90% game: no way to stop comboing off; remember that they use free counters like Disrupting Shoal and Pact of Negation, in addition to Apostole Blessing.
3. After they land a Birthing Pod, you cannot deny their game
4. How are Cryptic, Vendilion and Thoughtseize an answer to Emrakul? It cannot be countered or targeted, and if it goes into graveyard you reshuffle it and then you can search it with the Eldrazi land. Remember that after the first 3-4 turns they empty their hand with Explore, Maps and so on, which you can counter (with an arguable value...) in order to gain time, but you cannot set your clock. Then they go into top-deck mode, which is out of control. Moretheover, a resolved Wurmcoil Engine (paying 9 instead of 6 to circumvent Mana Leak is not a big deal for Tron) is a clock we cannot face, and to reset the game they use Oblivion Stone.
It's just me, or Mistbind Clique seems not to be a Modern option? You can cast it only when you're already winning (win-more?).
Example:
-turn 1: discard
-turn 2: bb or open for counter
-turn 3: open for counter, removal or something with flash
-turn 4: if we countered 2 spells, or countered 1 spell and removed 1 creature, we can pass holding a Mistbind
nope, literally just you. can't agree with a single point here besides maybe affinity being hard g1. twin is a joke. we play a blossom and play draw go. can be hectic at times but it sure as hell isn't game after a god damned pestermite.
cryptic taps emrakul, shuffled it back, clique puts it on the bottom. mistbind taps them out and you throw something useful under him in case they have o stone.
mistbind is the second best card in the deck, and only because bitterblossom is broken.
I don't know about a lot of you, but a lot of the "problems" people are stating in specific matchups seem to be easily mitigated by running Scion of Oonas and just flat out racing. I could care less about Pod winning on turn 6 or whatever if I land BB with Scion in hand. Not to mention, they have to do this through a plethora of Thoughtseize, Mana Leak, Vendilion Clique, Cryptic, Spellstutter, etc.
In short, run more Scions. This deck has amazing Tribal synergy, we should all be taking advantage of that, not turning it into some bastardized mono-control durdle.dec.
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I'm on the 25 land plan ATM, no tec edges, 4 river 4 shocks 4 darkslick, 4 mutavaults, 2 swamp, 5 island, 2 tar pit. Tar pits are amazing. Mana sink late game, guaranteed damage to enemy walkers if they stick one. And a decent Clock if you've controlled the board and need bb faeries for blocking duty.
I kind of want to try maindeck bile blight...maybe as a one or two of. Double black can be a little awkward sometimes, but not super hard to hit in my build. And being able to psuedo one sided board wipe against zoo is insane
3 Mistbind Clique
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Spellstutter Sprite
2 Vendilion Clique
4 Condescend
4 Cryptic Command
2 Dissolve
4 Mana Leak
4 Bitterblossom
1 Hallowed Fountain
2 Marsh Flats
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Mutavault
1 River of Tears
2 Scalding Tarn
7 Snow-Covered Island
1 Snow-Covered Swamp
4 Gifts Ungiven
4 Hibernation
2 Hurkyl's Recall
2 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
2 Griselbrand
1 Unburial Rites
4 Experiment One
4 Ghor-Clan Rampager
4 Goblin Guide
4 Kird Ape
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Vexing Devil
4 Wild Nacatl
2 Rancor
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Path to Exile
2 Pillar of Flame
4 Arid Mesa
1 Forest
1 Mountain
1 Plains
1 Sacred Foundry
2 Scalding Tarn
3 Stomping Ground
2 Temple Garden
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Boros Charm
2 Destructive Revelry
2 Scavenging Ooze
1 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Stony Silence
2 Vines of Vastwood
3 Molten Rain
For the Faeries deck, I took out Mistbind Clique, Bitterblossom, and Condescend and brought in both Elesh Norns (in retrospect I only need one of each creature in there), Hibernation, Gifts Ungiven, and Unburial Rites. For the Zoo deck, I took out Experiment One and Vexing Devil and brought in Destructive Revelry, Boros Charm, and Thalia (I should have taken out the Ghor-Clan Rampagers). The matchup improved enormously after this. Hibernation and Engineered Explosives with counterspell backup easily bought me enough time to Gifts Ungiven for Unbuial Rites and Elesh Norn. That usually allowed me to easily win. I think that after I do postboard testing against Zoo with them on the play, I will remove the extra Griselbrand and Elesh Norn from the sideboard, add another white source to my main deck, and possibly add Mana Tithe replacing Condescend.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
Yeah we have a hefty amount of disruption sure, I was just explaining why I like spreading seas over 3 mana LD spells. They both have very clear pros and cons so it is definitely hard to say which one is better than the other. This is of course assuming that there even IS a better or worse between the two for that matter. Cheaper + cantrip makes me want the seas, but I'm willing to admit that is incorrect.
I've tried snapcasters before and I typically have to count them as a 4 mana spell since snapping back a discard spell is a 3 mana sorcery discard which we usually won't want or even need. That combined with a lower-ish spell count makes me not want too many. However in the games I tried with them as a 1 of I was always happy to see it on like turn 7 but would always wish it was a basic mountain before then. So it's tough to say weather or not they belong in the current lists that have been floating around. I wouldn't be surprised either way, but at the moment I'm leaning towards 1 or 0.
I've taken to following a basic formula for the lists that I've been messing with that seems to be in the ballpark of ideal. Here's the design constraints I've been working with:
4 blossom
4 cryptic
25 lands (4 vaults and 3 tar pits)
4-5 discard
5 spot removal
4-5 cheap counter spells
10 creatures
2-4 swords/scions
You. I like you.
UB Faeries GP Record - 22/9/2, 1 Top 64
you know i was just thinking this was pretty spot on myself. Im just not sure which of scion/swords Id actually play better personally
UB/x Faeries
UR Storm
XURWB Affinity
G Elves
UW control
Well thank you. I spoke on scions vs swords earlier and decided that it's very meta dependent and weather we need to slide towards control or aggro in the current meta. With zoo being a thing and our ability to smash a number of control/combo decks we don't need to be too agressive atm, so I think that scions aren't where we want to be SPECIFICALLY right now. This can easily change a month from now or whenever the next modern GP is and then we'll dump the swords and just jam 4 scions.
As for my "formula" for my current fae list, here's a bit of a more specific listing.
4 blossom
do not touch!
4 cryptic
do not touch!
25 lands
4 vaults and 3 tar pits
You can include 1 colorless value land if running 25, 2 colorless lands if running 26 total lands. Any more and you'll have too many mana problems for the deck to function.
After deciding on them add in colored sources based on personal preference and blood moon fear level.
4-5 discard
Start with 3 thoughtseize before adding the first IoK. Taking pods, cryptics, and everything from Tron is too important in those matches to miss with IoK. If you aren't running fetches/shocks you can afford to pay the life for thoughtseize without too much trouble. That being said you don't want to run all 4.
5 spot removal
Entirely based on the current meta. I'm currently using 2 smother, 2 GFtT, 1 agony warp.
4-5 cheap counter spells
4 mana leaks or 3 leaks and 2 spell snare. If you want more you can look into remands, but the fourth mana leak should be put in before the first remand.
10 creatures
The bare minimum faerie package. 4 mist bind, 4 spell stutter, 2 vendillion. If adding in snaps, you can afford to cut a discard spell for one and maybe a counter spell if you really, really want a second. Remember, snap casters are either a 3 mana sorcery speed spell for discard, or a 4 mana instant with a packed 4 drop slot. A 2/1 body isn't overly relevant when you're running 4 bitterblossom and no blinks.
2-4 swords/scions
This is an aggro control deck and this section determines where you're biased to. 2 swords and 2 other pieces of interaction if you want to be more controlling, or 4 scions if you want to be more aggro. Both sides have their merit and depends on what you're expecting. Currently I think a control bias is better, but again, this can change monthly. When running scions, I've added 2 from this slot and cut 1 counter and 1 discard spell.
Hmm, I was more in the comfort range of 2 tar pits.
I currently don't run any and it has been working well for me.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
I like snapcaster very much, so i go with 11 creatures and play just one as a flexible additional spells. He can be a removal a counter and even a discard spell. And while wielding a sword he can be also a beater. For me he's just value.
I would cut a card from the sword/scion slot the one i'm least sold to.
My take:
25 land (4 muta 2 pit)
11 creatures (1 tiago)
4 BB
4 CC
5 Discards (3 seize 2 IoK)
5 counters (2 snare not sure about Mana Leak or Remand, i like the latter because of the cycle ability in the spots where neither leak or are useful)
5 Removals (this is the more flexible spot, right now i'm on 2 Agony Warp, 2 Smother and 1 Doom Blade; but i'd like to read more discussion on it cause i think is a crucial topic in much diverse creatures format like modern)
1 SoLaS (the best one from my testing, i tested also SoFaF and SoFaI, and i'm looking at SoWaP)
- L
"The problem isn't when Scissors says Rock is overpowered, it's when Paper says it is."
-Mark Rosewater
Does anybody know of any worthwhile life gain cards we might run? I'd run a pair of pharika's cure, but I don't like it for the same reasons a lot of people don't like disfigure right now. Loxodon war hammer is nice, but insanely expensive, same with batterskull in a lot of matches. Tribute to hunger is nice, but rarely will give you more than 2 life. I'm very unfamiliar with most of the legal sets in modern outside of what shows up in tier 1-2 decks over the past year or two. I'm really trying to think of more cards that might squeak their way into our precious few flex slots.
Dear god what I wouldn't give to be able to play force spike. Talk about insanity with a scion build...
It's not burn decks, but decks with burn AND counter magic. Against burn you can just slam a mistbind and stomp them, but that doesn't work so easy against UWR control or twin. I'd like to run chalice, but any deck I've ever run it in, it seems like a 4 or 0 type of card and SB slots are very precious. Granted I only really played it in legacy so I'm totally willing to admit I'm completely off base on that. But aside from zoo, what decks are extremely 1 drop centric and would still hurt if you didn't drop a chalice for 1 until like turn 9? It seems like chalice on 1 would be awesome against tron if you land it on turn 2 for the same reason stony silence is great, but casting it on turn 5+ makes it seem a little iffy. Am I wrong here?
UB Faeries (15-6-0)
UWR Control (10-5-1)/Kiki Control/Midrange/Harbinger
UBR Cruel Control (6-4-0)/Grixis Control/Delver/Blue Jund
UWB Control/Mentor
UW Miracles/Control (currently active, 14-2-0)
BW Eldrazi & Taxes
RW Burn (9-1-0)
I do (academic) research on video games and archaeology! You can check out my open access book here: https://www.sidestone.com/books/the-interactive-past
Why not spellskite? I side -1 BB -1 Warp +2 kite for sure.
Pod MU in my experience is fair/good as long a Pod doesn't stick, especially vs Kiki Pod. By that i came to the conclusion that 2 cage (useful also for some random vengivine/gift deck) are a nice addition, if it sticks you problem is only pridemage and disrupt the combo if they draw it (prolly they side out the chord).
See above about the cage, is better than SoD imo.
For reference my SB right now:
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Hurkyl's Recall
2 Spellskite
2 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Deathmark
2 Damnation
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Hero's Downfall
1 Phyrexian Crusader
- L
"The problem isn't when Scissors says Rock is overpowered, it's when Paper says it is."
-Mark Rosewater
Of course you would side in Spellskite, why shouldn't you? They are playing at least 12 + 4 Snapcaster Burn spells and if you don't manage to stick a Bitterblossom a resolved Spellskite is your best friend. Especially because Spellskite + SoFaI is game against them. I would totally agree that you don't side out discard though, otherwise sticking a Bitterblossom/progressing your gameplan can be much harder. I guess this matchup is at least even, but I feel we are slightly favored. 60/40 preboard to ~50/50 postboard I would guess.
Edit: I just saw you said Pyromancer.. they still play 10 burn spells, but I don't know if Spell Skite makes the cut here. Basic focus is destroying the Pyromancer. Sticking a Blossom should be easier as they don't play 12 + 4 Counters though
Edit 2: Especially against Pyromancer discard can be a key to success: They mostly keep subpar hands with cantrips to filter, so stripping key spells can easily be gamewinning
A card that shut down +10 burn spell and 4 snapcaster while blocking random shenanigans is that bad? Eat their pyromancers while they burn you alive. Also not all the lists play Pyros, at least on modo.
But w/e we can't agree on all right Smile ?
Btw Cage is great but if you side it in against Living End you're gonna have bad time Wink
Great against UWR control/midrange and Naya midrange.
- L
"The problem isn't when Scissors says Rock is overpowered, it's when Paper says it is."
-Mark Rosewater
chalice feels pretty weak overall. sometimes locks out an opponent, sometimes means you basically mulled to six because it's useless. you shouldn't be putting cute things into your board, put in things that will always be good.
UB Faeries GP Record - 22/9/2, 1 Top 64
Let me ask you another question: Do you think keeping Agony Warp + random Spell is really that much better than negating all their burn + having a body that is more than awesome with the swords? You should remember that they can play all their spells at instant speed as well while playing a tight tempo game. I don't really know if Skite is worth the spot but it's no bad choice either as gaining an "invincible" "beater" sounds okay to me.
I'm glad somebody mentioned this because a lot of people tend to forget that the old 0/4 actually does NOT have defender. I remember a few standard seasons ago seeing an infect player beat the snot out of somebody with a skite with a rancor or three on it teehee.
As for our different match ups, A lot of people have covered the big ones. Zoo depends on their build, if they're 1 drop centric we are not favored at all in game 1, our G1 against turbo 1 drop zoo is so bad it's laughable imo. However it does improve drastically after board with EE, damnation, deathmark, skites, and so forth. But the version that goes up to 3-4 drops our match up is the opposite and is painfully easy as it is with any other dorky mid range deck.
With merfolk if you're playing at a GP just win the first 3 rounds and forget it exists. You beat it by letting tron, uwr, twin, rock, pod, etc all beat it for you. But if you're just in a local tournament treat it as any other slow aggro deck. If they have vial out you'll have to race, which makes the match mindless since nobody can block anything. If they don't have vial on 1 or get choked with them you'll beat them so bad they'll need new sleeves. Slow aggro decks without counter magic or burn just aren't that good and aside from the odd spell pierce/snare I've never seen much of any counters from merfolk. If it's a more aggressive version with burn and soft counters, it'll be a fun match but in our favor, but requiring tight play rather than just facerolling.
Against GB/x liliana and goyf decks they can stop our BB with ease but can't interact with much else. AD can't hit our tar pits which will slaughter any walkers they land and none of their removal aside from a single pulse can kill mistbind, which they shouldn't have left in hand for that matter once we cast it. With as much as these decks have lost I don't think they're strong enough to compete anymore, which is a little sad imo even though I never ran any of those lists personally.
Against delver variants, BB is leagues better than pyromaster and our tempo swings are infinitely larger than theirs so don't worry too much about them honestly. For affinity just land a blossom and chump away, lingering souls was already a hard card for them to beat. Also pray etched champion plus plating never comes online, just like literally every other deck in the format.
The matches we should really be concerned with are pod variants, 1 drop zoo, UWR mid-range (geist, dragon, resto version), twin. The rest are greatly in our favor while these matches are much closer to 60% for us or for them. I'm mostly afraid of the pod decks as they can easily out value us and mana dorks make our best card much less impressive. The UWR decks just need a lot of tight play and solid decision making with discard and cliques.
nope, literally just you. can't agree with a single point here besides maybe affinity being hard g1. twin is a joke. we play a blossom and play draw go. can be hectic at times but it sure as hell isn't game after a god damned pestermite.
cryptic taps emrakul, shuffled it back, clique puts it on the bottom. mistbind taps them out and you throw something useful under him in case they have o stone.
mistbind is the second best card in the deck, and only because bitterblossom is broken.
UB Faeries GP Record - 22/9/2, 1 Top 64
In short, run more Scions. This deck has amazing Tribal synergy, we should all be taking advantage of that, not turning it into some bastardized mono-control durdle.dec.