Haha it's possible. Necrotic Ooze combo should be a breeze, you obviously can't let them resolve Necrotic AND get Griselbrand in the 'Yard though. I'll try to produce some content about the deck pretty soon, maybe some videos of me playing it (turbo-cam ) to help you/everyone out.
Well get this, he drew a cavern of souls to cast the ooze and used lightning axe to kill all of my monsters AND discard griselbrand at the same time!!!!!
So for lists going bigger than the shoal version, would the new Sarkahn be any better than Keranos?
The deck may fall out of delver territory at that point and lean closer to blue moon.
5 mana (2GUR) starts at 4 loyalty
+1 Draw a card, then add one mana of any color to your mana pool
-2 Put a 4/4 red dragon creature token with flying onto the battlefield
-8 Search your library for any number of dragon creature cards and put them on the battlefield. Then shuffle your library.
The ultimate would be useless, but cards and 4/4 fliers are pretty nice...
So for lists going bigger than the shoal version, would the new Sarkahn be any better than Keranos?
The deck may fall out of delver territory at that point and lean closer to blue moon.
5 mana (2GUR) starts at 4 loyalty
+1 Draw a card, then add one mana of any color to your mana pool
-2 Put a 4/4 red dragon creature token with flying onto the battlefield
-8 Search your library for any number of dragon creature cards and put them on the battlefield. Then shuffle your library.
The ultimate would be useless, but cards and 4/4 fliers are pretty nice...
Finished 3rd place at 5-2-1. I beat Affinity, Taking Turns, UW Control, Grixis Twin, and Infect; I drew against UR Twin and lost to Storm and Junk.
Round 1 vs. Affinity (2-1): I win the roll and open with a Scalding Tarn. He runs out a T1 Overseer, which I Bolt. I have a pair of Leaks in hand and they hit a Ravager and a Master. He rips another Ravager and massacres me with that, some mana dorks, and a Vault Skirge before I can apply some real pressure. G2 we tug-of-war as I deal with stuff and he plays stuff. I blow out an Etched Champion with Tarmogoyf, attacking into 4 Metalcraft and blowing up two artifacts via Grudge + Revelry. Next turn he has another Champion, again with 4 Metalcraft, and I attack into it, Bolt his Ornithopter, and Vapor Snag his animated Nexus to kill Champion again. G3 looks grim as he has double Ravager, Vault Skirge, Signal Pest, and an Ornithopter. I have two flipped Delvers and use them to block the Skirge and the Pest; he sacrifices both Ravagers to save his Skirge and trade Pest for my Delver. I land a Huntmaster after digging for lands and he controls the game despite facing down a Spellskite. I flip him a total of 4 times before receiving a concession; pass turn, then Goyf + Mandrills, then pass turn, then Snap + Probe.
Plan:
-4 Thought Scour
-4 Disrupting Shoal
-3 Gitaxian Probe
+1 Deprive
+2 Ancient Grudge
+2 Destructive Revelry
+1 Flame Slash
+2 Pyroclasm
+3 Huntmaster of the Fells
Round 2 vs. Taking Turns (2-0): I win the roll again and know what he's on from early scouting. Not even a little bit afraid of this MU; it's easy with Nacatls and gets easier with Denials. G1 I land an early Goyf and Scour his Serum Visions (both on top), which included a Howling Mine. I Shoal a Serum Visions and keep hitting him. I eventually land a second Goyf and by the time he resolves Dictate of Kruphix I'm drowning in Mana Leaks. G2 he manages to animate Thassa with a pair of Neurok Commando, but a Snag picks her up. I generate a ton of pressure with Hooting Mandrills and never let him attack with the Commandos since I'm ready to chump with a Snap. Drills + Snap finish the job.
Round 3 vs. UR Twin (1-1): This is my buddy so it sucks to get paired with him. I really respect his play and we have some great games. G1 we're trading hits from a Mandrills and a Pestermite, respectively. I land a Goyf to secure my lead and Deny his Cryptic Command on Start of Combat. G2 is ultra-grindy and we go to time. He ends up forcing a Splinter Twin through on a Spellskite and makes copies to block my three Mandrills. Lands a Keranos and starts to pick off my smaller guys. Pops Engineered Explosives to take out a Wolf token. We both get down to 1 life and I have the board locked down but Keranos shows him a Serum Visions for lethal. I have Destructive Revelry on top for the Skite. One of my many sleepy mistakes of the day: I mistakenly board for RUG Twin instead (should have left two Huntmaster in the side for a pair of Thought Scour).
Plan:
+1 Combust
+1 Deprive
+2 Destructive Revelry
+1 Thrun, the Last Troll
+1 Flame Slash
+2 Huntmaster of the Fells
-4 Disrupting Shoal
-4 Thought Scour
Round 4 vs. UW Control (2-1): I lose the roll and he mulligans. I Probe him after he opens with a Colonnade to see a Verdict and three Sphinx's Revelation. I beat him with a Goyf until he casts Verdict, then get greedy and play both Goyf and Delver, thinking the odds of him having another Verdict are less than those of him having a Path. He has a Verdict though, and aggressively Tec Edges me off Green. I have a hand full of Mandrills and he kills me with Colonnade. G2 I land a Tarmogoyf turn 2 and he casts Spreading Seas on my Forest. I respond with a Blood Moon, cutting myself off Green for the game, but I have Goyf in play and he just has Island and Colonnade. Goyf kills him as he covers the board in "Mountains." G3 my opponent's mana screwed to my T1 blind-flip Delver, who brings him from 17 to 14 to 11 to 6 (he Shocks for Path, which I Leak) to 3 and I Lightning Bolt his face. Sleepy mistake this round: I didn't even consider that he wasn't on Red. I boarded for UWR Control and expected Bolts in G3 after seeing zero Red. ugh
Plan:
+1 Deprive
+1 Thrun, the Last Troll
+3 Huntmaster of the Fells
+2 Blood Moon
-4 Thought Scour
-3 Lightning Bolt
Round 5 vs. UR Storm (1-2): Shouldn't have lost this one, but I threw the match TWICE IN A ROW in G3. G1 I get him to 1 and he tries to go off with very little, making a ton of red mana and praying for a Manamorphose, which he finds. Grapeshot for exactly lethal (18). G2 he kind of fizzles with Empty the Warrens but gets to chump Goyf and Mandrills (which he trades four Goblins for). I Bolt his Electromancer while he's at 6 and he can't recover. Goyf attacks into 2 Goblin tokens before crashing through for a win. G3 I made the biggest misplays of the day. I'm operating on an Island and a Stomping Ground and have a Bolt in hand and a Goyf on the field. My opponent's at 10 life. I have two Leaks in hand and have been discarding a card per turn since I can't find another land. Instead of Bolting his face at the End Step I take my turn and rip another Bolt that I can't cast. I attack him down to 6 with Goyf and pass, discarding Pyroclasm. My plan is that if he sees that I discarded the Pyro (which he knew I had thanks to Probe) he might go all-in on Goblin tokens, allowing me to double Bolt him for lethal instead of digging for Grapeshot and maybe killing me. But he gets Electromancer and starts going off, and when he Dispels my Denial for his Past in Flames I have no choice but to Bolt the Goblin. He barely makes it out of this hole but eventually finds Empty the Warrens and makes 42 Goblin tokens before passing the turn. I Bolt him but it's not enough because the second one's gone and I don't miraculously rip a third.
Round 6 vs. Grixis Twin (2-0): A little worried about this MU because I frequently lost to Will (my buddy on UR Twin today) when he had the deck built. But this guy's not a fantastic pilot and I'm generally able to race his Tasigurs once they resolve. G1 he goes for it turn 4 with a Pestermite, which I Lightning Bolt. Goyf grows bigger than Tasigur thanks to Splinter Twin. Snapcaster and Mandrills make too much pressure and he can't activate Tasigur since he's trying to resolve Terminates (which I counter). G2 he lands a turn 3 Tasigur. I start throwing Bolts at his face because I have 3 and a Snapcaster Mage. I deal myself 7 in a turn with double Probe and fetch + Shock (I want the cards I Scry with a Visions before fetching). He attacks past my Mandrills and new Snapcaster Mage into my face and I fall to 2, knowing he has Remand, Negate, and Twin in hand. Snapcaster Bolts him EOT and he Negates it. I untap, attack for 6, and Bolt him for lethal.
Plan:
+1 Combust
+1 Deprive
+1 Thrun
+2 Huntmaster of the Fells
-4 Disrupting Shoal
-1 Thought Scour
At this point I'm 4-1-1 and make Top 8 at 4th place.
Round 7 vs. Mono-Green Infect (2-1): I choose to play first. G1 he has exactly lethal with Rancor on an Elf and double Inkmoth so I have to hold up Mandrills and Delver to block even though he's at 8 life. He rips a pump spell for the win. G2 I get to resolve 4 Probes with a Snapcaster Mage and bring myself to 6 life, which feels awesome. I just out-race him with double Snap, double Delver, and a Mandrills. G3 I keep a risky hand of Shoal, Leak, Leak, land, land, Goyf, Goyf, knowing I'm dead to a one-drop. Luckily he opens with a tapped Cathedral and I have Shoal for his T2 Ichorclaw, which grows my Goyfs to enormous. I slam them one after the other and then hold Mana Leak for whatever. He tries to race but is too slow and has to start blocking Goyfs with a Nexus. I draw Ancient Grudge.
Round 8 vs. Junk (0-2): Man this deck is hard to beat. G1 we both mulligan and he casts Thoughtseize, Goyf, Lingering Souls, Siege Rhino, Thoughtseize. The Spirits wall my Delver and the Rhino walls my Mandrills. It doesn't take him a long time before he goes aggressive and closes out the game. G2 he mulligans and has nothing really but a pair of Decays. He draws another one and kills all my guys, and I stick a Mandrills but then he starts drawing Souls, Liliana, Rhino, and Tasigur and there's no way I can keep up. He Thoughtseizes my Deprive before I can counter the high-impact stuff. I finally get to cast Huntmaster after missing two land drops but it's too late.
I was exhausted since I only got 3 hours of sleep the night before so that's where the horrible plays came from, but the deck felt extremely powerful. My opponents played very slowly and I went to time almost every round, so I hardly got any play breaks all day. RUG Moon won the event against the Junk guy, and the other Top 8 decks were Scapeshift, Amulet, Storm, and 4c Control, all of which this deck has a lot of game against. Mandrill RUG is super fun to play if you like making a ton of decisions and playing Magic at its most interactive, so I had a great time
the card itself really isn't worth the card board its printed on...does it serve a purpose? Sure its a blue 1 drop that might not be a 1/1. I would not put it in a list and expect to win a PTQ or GP though.
Good job at the tourney. So are you happy with the mb and sideboard now?
I haven't seen anything from DTK spoiled so far that should slot in, except maybe maybe the rhino killer red card because it also kills tasigur and opposing goyfs. But it's still worse than combust I think.
Good job at the tourney. So are you happy with the mb and sideboard now?
I haven't seen anything from DTK spoiled so far that should slot in, except maybe maybe the rhino killer red card because it also kills tasigur and opposing goyfs. But it's still worse than combust I think.
Yes, I think the MB/SB are fairly optimized. You'll notice for the tournament yesterday my only change was to cut a Slash for a second Grudge in the SB. I played the same list tonight at a 50-person Face to Face event and went 4-0. Really appreciating the spoiler tags since they ensure I don't bog down each page with a thousand lines of text, I feel like I'm the only one posting in here anyway/even playing the deck LeL
Round 1 vs. Bogles (2-1): I win the roll and open with Tarn; he leads with a Bogle. I flash in Snap to block his Bogle with a Rancor after Shoaling the Hyena Umbra. I land a Mandrills and he taps out for Kor Spiritdancer. I Snag her and he plays her again next turn; this time I Bolt her. Mandrills connects 3 times. He plays another Spiritdancer that lives and grows to 3/5 to wall Drills, then gets a Bogle with Ethereal Armor. But he's at 4 and he only blocks Mandrills with Kor. I bounce her with Simic Charm for lethal. G2 I accidentally fetch an Island and not a Stomping Ground, thinking I have the Ground in hand (it's a Vents). He's very slow and I have answers for everything (Shoal for Coronet!), but I can never cast my Goyfs and Mandrills without Green and he beats me with two Bogles attacking for 2 each. G3 he mulligans to 4 cards and I Probe to see Rancor, Spiritdancer, Temple Garden, Dismember. I have two Goyfs and a Mandrills, which he hits with Dismember; I Bolt his face after he goes to 2.
Round 2 vs. Esper Control (2-0): I lose the roll, but a turn 1 Delver eats him. I blind-flip it off a Probe and see Watery Grave, Path, Zealous Persecution, Cryptic, Logic Knot, and Sphinx's Revelation after he'd opened with Celestial Colonnade. I Leak his Path, and he eventually tries to bounce Delver with Cryptic but I Leak that, too. He casts Snare and I Shoal it. Life pad tells it better than I can: 20, 17, 14, 11, 8, 5, 4, 2. G2 I have a Delver and a Mandrills and I'm up against a random Geist of Saint Traft that never attacks. His hand is Shadow of Doubt, Tectonic Edge, Snapcaster Mage, Cryptic Command, and Supreme Verdict. Deprive is good against Cryptic Command. He tries to double block my Mandrills with Snapcaster and Geist but I give it +3/+3 with Simic Charm and Deny his Remand. Putting life pad notes is actually pretty fun so I'll do it again: 20, 17, 14, 11, 4
Plan:
+1 Thrun, the Last Troll
+3 Huntmaster of the Fells
+2 Blood Moon
+1 Deprive
-4 Thought Scour
-3 Disrupting Shoal
Round 3 vs. Soul Sisters (2-1): G1 I see the Archangel in his hand but have to Deprive a Spectral Procession since he has threeWindbrisk Heights in play. I'm racing his 4 life dorks with two Mandrills and a Delver but he finds that 5th Plains eventually (he gains like 8 life per turn what the hell?) and lands it and I scoop. G3 I have a Huntmaster, a Wolf, and two Goyfs and he resolves Wrath of God. I recover fast with a pair of Mandrills and beat him before he can regain any kind of board presence. G3 he starts with a life dork (which I Slash) and an Auriok Champion. A Probe sees Valorous Stance, Wrath of God, Elspeth, Knight Errant, and two Ranger of Eos. All these cards cost infinity. I have a Mandrills so I beat him up and counter things with a Leak and a Deprive, soon finding a 4th land for the two Snapcaster Mage I have in hand. He Stances a Goyf I draw and tries to force through Wrath of God but can't make it through that Snap-Leak.
Plan:
+2 Pyroclasm
+1 Combust
+1 Flame Slash
+1 Deprive
+3 Huntmaster of the Fells
-4 Thought Scour
-4 Disrupting Shoal
Round 4 vs. RUG Moon (2-1): Here's the dude who won the PPTQ on Saturday. Was glad I finally got to play against him. G1 I have two Tarmogoyfs to his one and sneak in a lot of damage just turning them both sideways. But he lands the Moon a turn before I draw Scalding Tarn. He flashes in Clique to take Shoal on my combat step and blocks one-one with his creatures, then shows two Bolts to kill both my Goyfs. I play a Mandrills but it's not enough for Goyf; 8 Blue cards rot in my hand as I discard one every turn until I lose. G2 he probably boards out the Moons but I fetch around them painlessly anyway. I Probe him and see Vapor Snag, Clique, Serum, Cryptic, Vedalken Shackles, and Remand. I have Revelry for the Shackles so I let them resolve and then blow it up. Mandrills destroys him because he can't easily kill it after Slashing my early Delver and his bombs are dead to my artifact hate. G3 the same thing happens; two monkeys beat him down as I counter everything relevant. He Snap-Bolts to kill my Huntmaster and has EE at 0 for... the wolf token? For G3 I bring in the second Grudge for a Lighting Bolt because the card is just that good against this deck. I actually think RUG Moon is the most exciting new deck and fully believe in the power of G1 Blood Moon. Actually, the only decks I can even stand to play are games that either attack with Delver and Tarmogoyf or cast Blood Moon game 1. That said I'm pretty sure there's no way we can lose this matchup.
Plan:
+1 Thrun, the Last Troll
+3 Huntmaster of the Fells
+2 Destructive Revelry
+2 Ancient Grudge
+1 Deprive
-4 Thought Scour
-4 Disrupting Shoal
-1 Lightning Bolt
Think I'll stop reporting so much unless people really want it. No real reason to keep it up if it's just me jerking myself off and nobody else benefits. I won't stop working on this deck and I definitely won't stop playing it, but I do know that it's very, very good and that it's either optimized or a step away. I also really like where Modern is at right now. Players have a lot of freedom when choosing decks and archetypes, and while everyone flocked to Junk after the bans, and then to linear aggro decks to beat Junk, it seems like the format's experiencing a new age of diversity. The rise of control also means great things for the Delver deck, so if more people start sleeving up Jeskai and 4-Color we're in for a lot of success.
Historically, Delver decks become weaker in Modern the more diverse the field gets, since our counterspells are so bad that we've had to rely on meta-dependent stuff like Pierce and Snare. There's no catch-all answer like Force of Will or Daze; the closest we get is Mana Leak, and that costs 2. But since the format is so fast, any rogue deck needs to focus on powerful early-game plays to do well, and those plays cost 1 or 2 mana. For this reason, Shoal performs similarly to the "good" Legacy counterspells and helps us survive (and put a threat on the table) into the stage where we can actually cast Mana Leak and be dishing out damage at the same time, which is the stage we win the game in. It's true that I board it out almost every matchup, but I'm starting to think it's just wrong for Delver decks not to run them main if they can support it with a high cantrip density. The issue here is that you have to want 12 cantrips, which means wanting Thought Scour, which means having something to do with all the cards in your graveyard; I'm currently looking to Grixis (Tasigur) and RUG (Mandrills) as the shells that can best abuse MB Shoal and therefore enjoy success in Modern.
the card itself really isn't worth the card board its printed on...does it serve a purpose? Sure its a blue 1 drop that might not be a 1/1. I would not put it in a list and expect to win a PTQ or GP though.
No, I really enjoy your reports (especially the sideboard guides). I think someone just needs to take this to a large tournament and do well and then there will be much more activity. There's a myth that delver died with treasure cruise, and perhaps it's a good thing because the hate is low right now.
The only real way to "hate out" a deck like RUG Delver is to play a bunch of two-for-one super-blockers like Lingering Souls and Siege Rhino. Other hate cards, like Chalice of the Void, are too slow/fragile/unreliable/counterable to really make waves against us IMO. Even if this deck was on the radar, I think it would be fairly resilient. But yeah I'm taking it to every big event close to me and we'll see if I can get it out there.
the card itself really isn't worth the card board its printed on...does it serve a purpose? Sure its a blue 1 drop that might not be a 1/1. I would not put it in a list and expect to win a PTQ or GP though.
Keep it coming! I'd love to keep hearing how events are going for you.
As far as new cards go, Rending Volley is perfect for the sideboard. It's cheaper than combust and still hates out any threat that twin can put on the table. It's also only three mana total to snap it back which is a lot more comfortable than four.
Keep it coming! I'd love to keep hearing how events are going for you.
As far as new cards go, Rending Volley is perfect for the sideboard. It's cheaper than combust and still hates out any threat that twin can put on the table. It's also only three mana total to snap it back which is a lot more comfortable than four.
It is better against twin, but it can't kill rhino and that is big. We can only handle rhino on the stack, with simic charm +3/+3 or a 1 for 2 bolt. I think if I have one slot only I'd still rather have the combust because it still deals with twin.
Keep it coming! I'd love to keep hearing how events are going for you.
As far as new cards go, Rending Volley is perfect for the sideboard. It's cheaper than combust and still hates out any threat that twin can put on the table. It's also only three mana total to snap it back which is a lot more comfortable than four.
It is better against twin, but it can't kill rhino and that is big. We can only handle rhino on the stack, with simic charm +3/+3 or a 1 for 2 bolt. I think if I have one slot only I'd still rather have the combust because it still deals with twin.
Doesn't matter, we'll definitely play it over Combust.
the card itself really isn't worth the card board its printed on...does it serve a purpose? Sure its a blue 1 drop that might not be a 1/1. I would not put it in a list and expect to win a PTQ or GP though.
I have 0 twin in my area but there are a number of rhino decks so I'll stick with combust unless I travel to an unknown meta.
I'm having trouble with really aggressive decks like Affinity, infect, and green stompy. I know how to beat affinity and infect, but if they have the nuts there's not much that can be done. However stompy is really troubling. Pyroclasm still doesn't kill their 3/3's and one goyf or mandrils isn't enough to handle the army. Almost all of their cards are threats so using shoal sucks when they just drop something else and you're down a card. Also let's not talk about how an early dryad militant shuts off our mandrils, snapcaster, and weakens goyf.
I have 0 twin in my area but there are a number of rhino decks so I'll stick with combust unless I travel to an unknown meta.
I'm having trouble with really aggressive decks like Affinity, infect, and green stompy. I know how to beat affinity and infect, but if they have the nuts there's not much that can be done. However stompy is really troubling. Pyroclasm still doesn't kill their 3/3's and one goyf or mandrils isn't enough to handle the army. Almost all of their cards are threats so using shoal sucks when they just drop something else and you're down a card. Also let's not talk about how an early dryad militant shuts off our mandrils, snapcaster, and weakens goyf.
If this is what your meta looks like, you should really try playing another deck. Rhino decks are the hardest matchup, and hyper-aggressive decks are the second hardest. WUR Delver and Counter-Cat have a much better MU against these decks thanks to Path to Exile and more Snapcaster Mage.
the card itself really isn't worth the card board its printed on...does it serve a purpose? Sure its a blue 1 drop that might not be a 1/1. I would not put it in a list and expect to win a PTQ or GP though.
Well the other decks don't give me any issues, and the junk decks are all goyf-less so if I can keep them off rhino and voice of resurgence then I'm good. The affinity player is strong so I can count on facing him at least once a week. But is there anything I can bring in against G stompy? I only face infect online.
the card itself really isn't worth the card board its printed on...does it serve a purpose? Sure its a blue 1 drop that might not be a 1/1. I would not put it in a list and expect to win a PTQ or GP though.
Hey, would it be cool if I threw my list up here for critique? It's more RUG Pyromancer than Delver, but I'd really enjoy any advice you may have. Deck creation forum is rather slow/useless.
I took it to FNM last night (slightly different list) and it worked great. Generally, smooth. It did a lot of work catching people off guard and then ending the games with some combination of Bolt-Snap-Bolt or Become Immense on whatever unblocked tokens got through.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Currently Playing: R8whackR WUBGAtraxa Stax-Superfriends *Under Construction*WUBG
This is a really interesting build, have you tried playing Crack the Earth? Or is the whole point of Boom // Bust a 2 mana Stone Rain? Cackle the Earth with Young Pyromancer seems like an amazing play, 1 mana opponent sacrifices a land if you manage to keep their board clean.
I also feel like 4 Become Immense is correct here since the deck seems amazing at filling up the graveyard. Keldon Megaliths seems like an interesting card in top deck situations. I don't really understand what the Faithless Looting is for, Serum Visions just seem better since you're only running 3-4 Delve spells. Remand in combination with land destruction would be great. You would obviously want more fetchlands in here to maximize Boom // Bust, I think if you can get a hold of some Polluted Delta and/or Flooded Strand, that would be good. Also Grim Lavamancer is probably an auto-include.
This is a really interesting build, have you tried playing Crack the Earth? Or is the whole point of Boom // Bust a 2 mana Stone Rain? Cackle the Earth with Young Pyromancer seems like an amazing play, 1 mana opponent sacrifices a land if you manage to keep their board clean.
I also feel like 4 Become Immense is correct here since the deck seems amazing at filling up the graveyard. Keldon Megaliths seems like an interesting card in top deck situations. I don't really understand what the Faithless Looting is for, Serum Visions just seem better since you're only running 3-4 Delve spells. Remand in combination with land destruction would be great. You would obviously want more fetchlands in here to maximize Boom // Bust, I think if you can get a hold of some Polluted Delta and/or Flooded Strand, that would be good. Also Grim Lavamancer is probably an auto-include.
A lot of the list is shaped by a lack of card availability. I want 3-4 Blood Moon in the side, 3-4 Remand as well. I do have Grim Lavamancer, but I found that the graveyard became very taxed.
I'm up to 9 fetches (4 Wooded foothills, 4 Scalding Tarn, 1 Misty rainforest), but that's really only on Cockatrice as there are some availability issues. I'll definitely put in the 1 Bloodstained Mire, Polluted Delta, and Flooded Strand that I do have though.
Yeah, thanks. Honestly, I love Crack the Earth, but it's power lies in the early game and then turns into a terrible topdeck. I'll definitely look into it again, as I'm back up to four Young Pyromancers.
I'm really trying to find space for 4 Become Immense. I switched things around to go up to 3, but I'm having a hard time making those final cuts. I'll obviously need to keep bringing it to FNM.
Faithless Looting really just fills the yard better, is cheaper to buy, and has flashback which means it will give me more use. It consolidates the mana requirements of the deck a bit more in that it's red and not blue. I was testing Serum Visions, but I wasn't convinced about it.
Keldon Megaliths is definitely something I've been trying out lately. Along with more manlands. The treetops have been a big help.
Thanks for the reply. I'd really appreciate some advice on what you'd consider cutting for the extra Become Immense and Remands.
Hey, would it be cool if I threw my list up here for critique? It's more RUG Pyromancer than Delver, but I'd really enjoy any advice you may have. Deck creation forum is rather slow/useless.
I took it to FNM last night (slightly different list) and it worked great. Generally, smooth. It did a lot of work catching people off guard and then ending the games with some combination of Bolt-Snap-Bolt or Become Immense on whatever unblocked tokens got through.
Interesting deck but it almost definitely doesn't belong in this thread. That said I think there's no reason not to add Delvers and Tarmogoyfs given your spell count and game plan; land destruction is never a viable archetype but can often work really well as a plan in Tempo decks to keep opponents off the beat as you deploy some beats of your own (see: Canadian Thresh). I hate mana dorks in general, but I like how you can turn them into cards later. And you really need Serum Visions.
the card itself really isn't worth the card board its printed on...does it serve a purpose? Sure its a blue 1 drop that might not be a 1/1. I would not put it in a list and expect to win a PTQ or GP though.
Well get this, he drew a cavern of souls to cast the ooze and used lightning axe to kill all of my monsters AND discard griselbrand at the same time!!!!!
The deck may fall out of delver territory at that point and lean closer to blue moon.
5 mana (2GUR) starts at 4 loyalty
+1 Draw a card, then add one mana of any color to your mana pool
-2 Put a 4/4 red dragon creature token with flying onto the battlefield
-8 Search your library for any number of dragon creature cards and put them on the battlefield. Then shuffle your library.
The ultimate would be useless, but cards and 4/4 fliers are pretty nice...
It seems pretty expensive for this deck.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Hooting Mandrills
2 Snapcaster Mage
Sorcery (8)
4 Serum Visions
4 Gitaxian Probe
Instant (21)
4 Thought Scour
4 Lightning Bolt
1 Vapor Snag
4 Disrupting Shoal
3 Stubborn Denial
3 Mana Leak
1 Deprive
1 Simic Charm
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Steam Vents
1 Breeding Pool
3 Island
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Forest
1 Stomping Ground
2 Destructive Revelry
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Pyroclasm
1 Flame Slash
1 Combust
2 Blood Moon
3 Huntmaster of the Fells
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Deprive
Finished 3rd place at 5-2-1. I beat Affinity, Taking Turns, UW Control, Grixis Twin, and Infect; I drew against UR Twin and lost to Storm and Junk.
Plan:
-4 Thought Scour
-4 Disrupting Shoal
-3 Gitaxian Probe
+1 Deprive
+2 Ancient Grudge
+2 Destructive Revelry
+1 Flame Slash
+2 Pyroclasm
+3 Huntmaster of the Fells
Round 2 vs. Taking Turns (2-0): I win the roll again and know what he's on from early scouting. Not even a little bit afraid of this MU; it's easy with Nacatls and gets easier with Denials. G1 I land an early Goyf and Scour his Serum Visions (both on top), which included a Howling Mine. I Shoal a Serum Visions and keep hitting him. I eventually land a second Goyf and by the time he resolves Dictate of Kruphix I'm drowning in Mana Leaks. G2 he manages to animate Thassa with a pair of Neurok Commando, but a Snag picks her up. I generate a ton of pressure with Hooting Mandrills and never let him attack with the Commandos since I'm ready to chump with a Snap. Drills + Snap finish the job.
Plan:
-1 Vapor Snag
-1 Simic Charm
-3 Lightning Bolt
+2 Destructive Revelry
+2 Ancient Grudge
+1 Deprive
Round 3 vs. UR Twin (1-1): This is my buddy so it sucks to get paired with him. I really respect his play and we have some great games. G1 we're trading hits from a Mandrills and a Pestermite, respectively. I land a Goyf to secure my lead and Deny his Cryptic Command on Start of Combat. G2 is ultra-grindy and we go to time. He ends up forcing a Splinter Twin through on a Spellskite and makes copies to block my three Mandrills. Lands a Keranos and starts to pick off my smaller guys. Pops Engineered Explosives to take out a Wolf token. We both get down to 1 life and I have the board locked down but Keranos shows him a Serum Visions for lethal. I have Destructive Revelry on top for the Skite. One of my many sleepy mistakes of the day: I mistakenly board for RUG Twin instead (should have left two Huntmaster in the side for a pair of Thought Scour).
Plan:
+1 Combust
+1 Deprive
+2 Destructive Revelry
+1 Thrun, the Last Troll
+1 Flame Slash
+2 Huntmaster of the Fells
-4 Disrupting Shoal
-4 Thought Scour
Round 4 vs. UW Control (2-1): I lose the roll and he mulligans. I Probe him after he opens with a Colonnade to see a Verdict and three Sphinx's Revelation. I beat him with a Goyf until he casts Verdict, then get greedy and play both Goyf and Delver, thinking the odds of him having another Verdict are less than those of him having a Path. He has a Verdict though, and aggressively Tec Edges me off Green. I have a hand full of Mandrills and he kills me with Colonnade. G2 I land a Tarmogoyf turn 2 and he casts Spreading Seas on my Forest. I respond with a Blood Moon, cutting myself off Green for the game, but I have Goyf in play and he just has Island and Colonnade. Goyf kills him as he covers the board in "Mountains." G3 my opponent's mana screwed to my T1 blind-flip Delver, who brings him from 17 to 14 to 11 to 6 (he Shocks for Path, which I Leak) to 3 and I Lightning Bolt his face. Sleepy mistake this round: I didn't even consider that he wasn't on Red. I boarded for UWR Control and expected Bolts in G3 after seeing zero Red. ugh
Plan:
+1 Deprive
+1 Thrun, the Last Troll
+3 Huntmaster of the Fells
+2 Blood Moon
-4 Thought Scour
-3 Lightning Bolt
Round 5 vs. UR Storm (1-2): Shouldn't have lost this one, but I threw the match TWICE IN A ROW in G3. G1 I get him to 1 and he tries to go off with very little, making a ton of red mana and praying for a Manamorphose, which he finds. Grapeshot for exactly lethal (18). G2 he kind of fizzles with Empty the Warrens but gets to chump Goyf and Mandrills (which he trades four Goblins for). I Bolt his Electromancer while he's at 6 and he can't recover. Goyf attacks into 2 Goblin tokens before crashing through for a win. G3 I made the biggest misplays of the day. I'm operating on an Island and a Stomping Ground and have a Bolt in hand and a Goyf on the field. My opponent's at 10 life. I have two Leaks in hand and have been discarding a card per turn since I can't find another land. Instead of Bolting his face at the End Step I take my turn and rip another Bolt that I can't cast. I attack him down to 6 with Goyf and pass, discarding Pyroclasm. My plan is that if he sees that I discarded the Pyro (which he knew I had thanks to Probe) he might go all-in on Goblin tokens, allowing me to double Bolt him for lethal instead of digging for Grapeshot and maybe killing me. But he gets Electromancer and starts going off, and when he Dispels my Denial for his Past in Flames I have no choice but to Bolt the Goblin. He barely makes it out of this hole but eventually finds Empty the Warrens and makes 42 Goblin tokens before passing the turn. I Bolt him but it's not enough because the second one's gone and I don't miraculously rip a third.
Round 6 vs. Grixis Twin (2-0): A little worried about this MU because I frequently lost to Will (my buddy on UR Twin today) when he had the deck built. But this guy's not a fantastic pilot and I'm generally able to race his Tasigurs once they resolve. G1 he goes for it turn 4 with a Pestermite, which I Lightning Bolt. Goyf grows bigger than Tasigur thanks to Splinter Twin. Snapcaster and Mandrills make too much pressure and he can't activate Tasigur since he's trying to resolve Terminates (which I counter). G2 he lands a turn 3 Tasigur. I start throwing Bolts at his face because I have 3 and a Snapcaster Mage. I deal myself 7 in a turn with double Probe and fetch + Shock (I want the cards I Scry with a Visions before fetching). He attacks past my Mandrills and new Snapcaster Mage into my face and I fall to 2, knowing he has Remand, Negate, and Twin in hand. Snapcaster Bolts him EOT and he Negates it. I untap, attack for 6, and Bolt him for lethal.
Plan:
+1 Combust
+1 Deprive
+1 Thrun
+2 Huntmaster of the Fells
-4 Disrupting Shoal
-1 Thought Scour
At this point I'm 4-1-1 and make Top 8 at 4th place.
Round 7 vs. Mono-Green Infect (2-1): I choose to play first. G1 he has exactly lethal with Rancor on an Elf and double Inkmoth so I have to hold up Mandrills and Delver to block even though he's at 8 life. He rips a pump spell for the win. G2 I get to resolve 4 Probes with a Snapcaster Mage and bring myself to 6 life, which feels awesome. I just out-race him with double Snap, double Delver, and a Mandrills. G3 I keep a risky hand of Shoal, Leak, Leak, land, land, Goyf, Goyf, knowing I'm dead to a one-drop. Luckily he opens with a tapped Cathedral and I have Shoal for his T2 Ichorclaw, which grows my Goyfs to enormous. I slam them one after the other and then hold Mana Leak for whatever. He tries to race but is too slow and has to start blocking Goyfs with a Nexus. I draw Ancient Grudge.
Round 8 vs. Junk (0-2): Man this deck is hard to beat. G1 we both mulligan and he casts Thoughtseize, Goyf, Lingering Souls, Siege Rhino, Thoughtseize. The Spirits wall my Delver and the Rhino walls my Mandrills. It doesn't take him a long time before he goes aggressive and closes out the game. G2 he mulligans and has nothing really but a pair of Decays. He draws another one and kills all my guys, and I stick a Mandrills but then he starts drawing Souls, Liliana, Rhino, and Tasigur and there's no way I can keep up. He Thoughtseizes my Deprive before I can counter the high-impact stuff. I finally get to cast Huntmaster after missing two land drops but it's too late.
Counter-Cat
Colorless Eldrazi Stompy
I haven't seen anything from DTK spoiled so far that should slot in, except maybe maybe the rhino killer red card because it also kills tasigur and opposing goyfs. But it's still worse than combust I think.
Plan:
+2 Destructive Revelry
+1 Deprive
-1 Vapor Snag
-1 Simic Charm
-1 Lightning Bolt
Round 2 vs. Esper Control (2-0): I lose the roll, but a turn 1 Delver eats him. I blind-flip it off a Probe and see Watery Grave, Path, Zealous Persecution, Cryptic, Logic Knot, and Sphinx's Revelation after he'd opened with Celestial Colonnade. I Leak his Path, and he eventually tries to bounce Delver with Cryptic but I Leak that, too. He casts Snare and I Shoal it. Life pad tells it better than I can: 20, 17, 14, 11, 8, 5, 4, 2. G2 I have a Delver and a Mandrills and I'm up against a random Geist of Saint Traft that never attacks. His hand is Shadow of Doubt, Tectonic Edge, Snapcaster Mage, Cryptic Command, and Supreme Verdict. Deprive is good against Cryptic Command. He tries to double block my Mandrills with Snapcaster and Geist but I give it +3/+3 with Simic Charm and Deny his Remand. Putting life pad notes is actually pretty fun so I'll do it again: 20, 17, 14, 11, 4
Plan:
+1 Thrun, the Last Troll
+3 Huntmaster of the Fells
+2 Blood Moon
+1 Deprive
-4 Thought Scour
-3 Disrupting Shoal
Round 3 vs. Soul Sisters (2-1): G1 I see the Archangel in his hand but have to Deprive a Spectral Procession since he has three Windbrisk Heights in play. I'm racing his 4 life dorks with two Mandrills and a Delver but he finds that 5th Plains eventually (he gains like 8 life per turn what the hell?) and lands it and I scoop. G3 I have a Huntmaster, a Wolf, and two Goyfs and he resolves Wrath of God. I recover fast with a pair of Mandrills and beat him before he can regain any kind of board presence. G3 he starts with a life dork (which I Slash) and an Auriok Champion. A Probe sees Valorous Stance, Wrath of God, Elspeth, Knight Errant, and two Ranger of Eos. All these cards cost infinity. I have a Mandrills so I beat him up and counter things with a Leak and a Deprive, soon finding a 4th land for the two Snapcaster Mage I have in hand. He Stances a Goyf I draw and tries to force through Wrath of God but can't make it through that Snap-Leak.
Plan:
+2 Pyroclasm
+1 Combust
+1 Flame Slash
+1 Deprive
+3 Huntmaster of the Fells
-4 Thought Scour
-4 Disrupting Shoal
Round 4 vs. RUG Moon (2-1): Here's the dude who won the PPTQ on Saturday. Was glad I finally got to play against him. G1 I have two Tarmogoyfs to his one and sneak in a lot of damage just turning them both sideways. But he lands the Moon a turn before I draw Scalding Tarn. He flashes in Clique to take Shoal on my combat step and blocks one-one with his creatures, then shows two Bolts to kill both my Goyfs. I play a Mandrills but it's not enough for Goyf; 8 Blue cards rot in my hand as I discard one every turn until I lose. G2 he probably boards out the Moons but I fetch around them painlessly anyway. I Probe him and see Vapor Snag, Clique, Serum, Cryptic, Vedalken Shackles, and Remand. I have Revelry for the Shackles so I let them resolve and then blow it up. Mandrills destroys him because he can't easily kill it after Slashing my early Delver and his bombs are dead to my artifact hate. G3 the same thing happens; two monkeys beat him down as I counter everything relevant. He Snap-Bolts to kill my Huntmaster and has EE at 0 for... the wolf token? For G3 I bring in the second Grudge for a Lighting Bolt because the card is just that good against this deck. I actually think RUG Moon is the most exciting new deck and fully believe in the power of G1 Blood Moon. Actually, the only decks I can even stand to play are games that either attack with Delver and Tarmogoyf or cast Blood Moon game 1. That said I'm pretty sure there's no way we can lose this matchup.
Plan:
+1 Thrun, the Last Troll
+3 Huntmaster of the Fells
+2 Destructive Revelry
+2 Ancient Grudge
+1 Deprive
-4 Thought Scour
-4 Disrupting Shoal
-1 Lightning Bolt
Historically, Delver decks become weaker in Modern the more diverse the field gets, since our counterspells are so bad that we've had to rely on meta-dependent stuff like Pierce and Snare. There's no catch-all answer like Force of Will or Daze; the closest we get is Mana Leak, and that costs 2. But since the format is so fast, any rogue deck needs to focus on powerful early-game plays to do well, and those plays cost 1 or 2 mana. For this reason, Shoal performs similarly to the "good" Legacy counterspells and helps us survive (and put a threat on the table) into the stage where we can actually cast Mana Leak and be dishing out damage at the same time, which is the stage we win the game in. It's true that I board it out almost every matchup, but I'm starting to think it's just wrong for Delver decks not to run them main if they can support it with a high cantrip density. The issue here is that you have to want 12 cantrips, which means wanting Thought Scour, which means having something to do with all the cards in your graveyard; I'm currently looking to Grixis (Tasigur) and RUG (Mandrills) as the shells that can best abuse MB Shoal and therefore enjoy success in Modern.
Counter-Cat
Colorless Eldrazi Stompy
Counter-Cat
Colorless Eldrazi Stompy
As far as new cards go, Rending Volley is perfect for the sideboard. It's cheaper than combust and still hates out any threat that twin can put on the table. It's also only three mana total to snap it back which is a lot more comfortable than four.
It is better against twin, but it can't kill rhino and that is big. We can only handle rhino on the stack, with simic charm +3/+3 or a 1 for 2 bolt. I think if I have one slot only I'd still rather have the combust because it still deals with twin.
Counter-Cat
Colorless Eldrazi Stompy
I'm having trouble with really aggressive decks like Affinity, infect, and green stompy. I know how to beat affinity and infect, but if they have the nuts there's not much that can be done. However stompy is really troubling. Pyroclasm still doesn't kill their 3/3's and one goyf or mandrils isn't enough to handle the army. Almost all of their cards are threats so using shoal sucks when they just drop something else and you're down a card. Also let's not talk about how an early dryad militant shuts off our mandrils, snapcaster, and weakens goyf.
Counter-Cat
Colorless Eldrazi Stompy
-4 Disrupting Shoal
-3 Thought Scour
+3 Huntmaster of the Fells
+2 Destructive Revelry
+1 Flame Slash
+! Deprive
Rely on Removal-Snap-Removal and commit pressure early. Bounce effects are good. Keep Militant off the table.
Counter-Cat
Colorless Eldrazi Stompy
Burn 2-1
Lands 0-2
Junk 2-1
Thanks!
4 Birds of Paradise
3 Noble Hierarch
3 Snapcaster Mage
4 Young Pyromancer
Spells
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Molten Rain
4 Boom / Bust
3 Become Immense
4 Perilous Research
4 Faithless Looting
4 Gitaxian Probe
1 Breeding Pool
1 Bloodstained Mire
3 Copperline Gorge
1 Forest
1 Island
1 Keldon Monoliths
1 Mountain
2 Steam vents
2 Stomping Ground
3 Treetop Village
4 Wooded foothills
2 Spellskite
3 Combust
4 Feed the Clan
1 Creeping Corrosion
3 anger of the gods
2 Destructive Revelry
I took it to FNM last night (slightly different list) and it worked great. Generally, smooth. It did a lot of work catching people off guard and then ending the games with some combination of Bolt-Snap-Bolt or Become Immense on whatever unblocked tokens got through.
R8whackR
WUBGAtraxa Stax-Superfriends *Under Construction*WUBG
I also feel like 4 Become Immense is correct here since the deck seems amazing at filling up the graveyard. Keldon Megaliths seems like an interesting card in top deck situations. I don't really understand what the Faithless Looting is for, Serum Visions just seem better since you're only running 3-4 Delve spells. Remand in combination with land destruction would be great. You would obviously want more fetchlands in here to maximize Boom // Bust, I think if you can get a hold of some Polluted Delta and/or Flooded Strand, that would be good. Also Grim Lavamancer is probably an auto-include.
A lot of the list is shaped by a lack of card availability. I want 3-4 Blood Moon in the side, 3-4 Remand as well. I do have Grim Lavamancer, but I found that the graveyard became very taxed.
I'm up to 9 fetches (4 Wooded foothills, 4 Scalding Tarn, 1 Misty rainforest), but that's really only on Cockatrice as there are some availability issues. I'll definitely put in the 1 Bloodstained Mire, Polluted Delta, and Flooded Strand that I do have though.
Yeah, thanks. Honestly, I love Crack the Earth, but it's power lies in the early game and then turns into a terrible topdeck. I'll definitely look into it again, as I'm back up to four Young Pyromancers.
I'm really trying to find space for 4 Become Immense. I switched things around to go up to 3, but I'm having a hard time making those final cuts. I'll obviously need to keep bringing it to FNM.
Faithless Looting really just fills the yard better, is cheaper to buy, and has flashback which means it will give me more use. It consolidates the mana requirements of the deck a bit more in that it's red and not blue. I was testing Serum Visions, but I wasn't convinced about it.
Keldon Megaliths is definitely something I've been trying out lately. Along with more manlands. The treetops have been a big help.
Thanks for the reply. I'd really appreciate some advice on what you'd consider cutting for the extra Become Immense and Remands.
4 Birds of Paradise
3 Snapcaster Mage
4 Young Pyromancer
3 Become immense
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Perilous Research
3 Faithless Looting
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Molten Rain
1 Breading Pool
3 Copperline Gorge
1 Forest
1 Island
1 Misty rainforest
3 Scalding Tarn
1 Steam Vents
2 Stomping Grounds
4 Treetop Village
4 Wooded Foothills
R8whackR
WUBGAtraxa Stax-Superfriends *Under Construction*WUBG
Counter-Cat
Colorless Eldrazi Stompy