What do you think about experimental frenzy? There's a lot of buzz about it right now.
I'd like to test it in side against BGx and control deck.
I currently play keranos in that slot since trophy and path help ramping to it and that's a card resilient to both.
Hi fellow Jeskai Delver players. I have been testing Experimental Frenzy in my sideboard against grindy matchups and have to say it has been very good, if not, great. I have always struggled to find something to side in against Abzan and Jund after Celestial Purge. I think this is the card we needed. Has anyone else tried it yet?
I will say your deck has to be a bit more aggro because Experimental frenzy is not great with counter magic. So if your deck is counter magic heavy it may not work. Let me know what you all think.
the card itself really isn't worth the card board its printed on...does it serve a purpose? Sure its a blue 1 drop that might not be a 1/1. I would not put it in a list and expect to win a PTQ or GP though.
What do you think about experimental frenzy? There's a lot of buzz about it right now.
I'd like to test it in side against BGx and control deck.
I currently play keranos in that slot since trophy and path help ramping to it and that's a card resilient to both.
Hi fellow Jeskai Delver players. I have been testing Experimental Frenzy in my sideboard against grindy matchups and have to say it has been very good, if not, great. I have always struggled to find something to side in against Abzan and Jund after Celestial Purge. I think this is the card we needed. Has anyone else tried it yet?
I will say your deck has to be a bit more aggro because Experimental frenzy is not great with counter magic. So if your deck is counter magic heavy it may not work. Let me know what you all think.
Thanks, I didn't notice.
I like frenzy a bit more since you can also play land (and threats). I agree that there's a bit of tension with cantrips. Less with serum visions though since you can use it to set up new cards to cast. I'll try it and report how it goes.
Certainly not worth a report as I had not played the game in two months and kept piling on mistakes, probably one of my worst result ever.
Most matches felt winnable though (Tron, UR Delver, Burn) except for one painful loss against Dredge. Took an absolute beating both games including a T3 kill, Creeping Chill for 9 dmg both times, etc...
How the **** do you win? How would you recommend I sideboard?
Personally, I don't think that listor many of our lists are equipped to beat dredge unless you have surgical in your opening hand. It's about the only card we use that can give us just enough time.
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Modern: MONKEY GROW & Amulet Titan Legacy: RG Lands EDH: Merieke Ri Berit Esper Good stuff
Anger of the gods is another card that can help against dredge. I'd play it over Firespout if Dredge is present in good numbers. Creeping chill is a problem though. There's nothing it can be done to it (except unplayable Trickbind and Nimble Obstructionist). If they're are lucky enough they start at 29 ad opponents start at 11. That pretty annoying. I don't like those abilities. I hate them as much as on-cast trigger. Why they just don't let it cast for free if milled, then exiled as flashback does? It would have been neater and could have been answered with counter.
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Decks played: Modern:
0 Affinity;
URG Delver
URGW Countercats
(Here you can find some video contents about Countercats and Temur Delver decks)
( sorry i'm not so skilled with tags and formatting stuff, forgive me).
i've finished 5-0-1 in the swiss facing
Bant spirits; UWR control; BR Hollow one; Bant spirits; UW control ( the one we intentionally drawed on the 1 on 1 game result) and Dredge.
I won the in top 8 against tron and lost against a UR thing in the ice/ blood moon deck.
I'm asking, why no one use disrupting shoal anymore?
in my opinion is the edge we need against dredge, because the deck now is less robust to counters, and usually counter a shriekhorn or a faithless looting with shoal into threat is just game.
cheers!
Can you post your sideboard too please?
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Decks played: Modern:
0 Affinity;
URG Delver
URGW Countercats
(Here you can find some video contents about Countercats and Temur Delver decks)
First of all congrats on the strong finish!! Living the dream!! Second, I'm not at all discounting the deck choices, but I just noted that your sb is especially well tuned for exactly the match ups you had. I'm very curious to hear from you some more after more Tron, humans and combo match ups!
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Modern: MONKEY GROW & Amulet Titan Legacy: RG Lands EDH: Merieke Ri Berit Esper Good stuff
I have been working on a new shell of Temur Delver and the results so far have been promising. First before getting to the list, a little context. I have been off of the Temur Delver wagon after experimenting with various Death's Shadow variants and coming to the conclusion that Death's Shadow just does what this deck wants to do but better for the following reasons:
Sequencing black discard spells -> a threat vs sequencing a threat -> countermagic was a lot better at keeping my dudes alive. Since the advent of fatal push, removal in modern had become efficient to the point that trying to protect a threat with clunky counterspells (I'm looking at you mana leak) had become a liability. Straight up taking the removal spell before playing the threat led to me being able to stick a threat more often
Threats of Death's Shadow > Threats of Delver. I was not satisfied with Delver of Secrets who suffers from consistency issues, the fact that he dies to literally all the removal (whereas delve threats can't be fatal pushed or big dudes cant get bolted), and also if a delver did stick, it often wasn't enough to matter because people were presenting better clocks than I was. I was running Tarmogoyf + Death's Shadow + Black Delve creatures and that felt a lot better than Tarmogoyf + Delver + Green Delve creatures.
Temur Battle Rage was a free win card that was generating more free wins than Temur was generating with Blood Moon. I used to love my transformational sideboard strategy where I would try to cheese out opponents with a turn 3 Blood Moon. A lot of strategies in modern simply don't care about that (see any aggro deck, most combo decks), others are too fast for it to be effective (humans), and against the rest it wasn't consistent enough because a good opponent could play around it with some well timed fetches. Playing against opponents with Death's Shadow, the card they were scared of most was Temur Battle Rage. It would allow me to win games I had no business winning. Sometimes they would tap out on turn 3 and die. It imbued the death's shadow decks I was playing with that "unfair" essence that flows so rampantly through modern. Temur Delver didn't have that. As modern got faster and faster, delver couldn't keep up with new (faster) strategies whereas Death's Shadow could tango because of Battle Rage.
My most recent brew with Death's Shadow was one that went all-in on the temur battle rage plan, based off this deck that hearkened back to the days of suicide zoo, forgoing delve threats in favor of Become immense and one-mana beaters Death's Shadow, Monastery Swiftspear, and Wild Nacatl. Wild Nacatl stretched that deck's manabase to the extremes, and I began pursuing a version of the deck that had a more stable manabase. That led me to trying a version of the deck that was Jund colors and who's threat base consisted of Swiftspear, Shadow, and pauper all star Kiln Fiend. The deck could generate quick wins in the face of minimal interaction, but withered under the effect of concentrated spot-removal. I then tried to build a version of the deck that would sideboard into Stubborn Denials to help alleviate this problem, but in the end I couldn't get the manabase where I wanted it and gave up.
Then I had a crazy thought: What if I were to play Temur Battle Rage in a deck that didn't play Death's Shadow? Crazy right? I went to work right away building a shell that would incorporate what I liked about the Temur Battle Rage decks I have played and also my substantial experience with Temur Delver and Death's Shadow and ended up here:
Thoughts about deck building choices:
To decide on the exact number of copies of cards I wanted to play in the maindeck, I utilized Frank Karsten's advice from a 2018 article titled "How Many Copies of Any Given Card Should You Put in Your Deck?"
To quote:
"4 copies – You want to draw the card as often and as early as possible. The card is essential for the deck to work as it’s supposed to, and you don’t mind drawing multiples, even in your opening hand. You might even be happy to do so.
3 copies – You want to see the card at some point in the midgame, but you prefer not to draw multiples. A second copy is not necessarily dead, but it’s much less valuable than the first. Most commonly, this is because the card is expensive to cast, a situational answer, and/or a non-essential legendary.
2 copies – You’re not excited to see the card in your opening hand, and it’s not vital to your strategy. Often, the card is not much better than the alternatives, worthless in multiples, and/or crazy expensive to cast. Example: Josu Vess, Lich Knight in Mono-Black Control or Ugin, the Spirit Dragon in Modern Tron.
1 copy – You don’t want to draw the card naturally, but you want to have access to one in your deck. Most commonly, this is because it’s a kill condition for strategies that see their entire deck, because you hope to mislead your opponent into thinking you’re playing more copies than you actually are, or because it’s a tutor target in a toolbox-style deck. For example: Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite in Gifts Ungiven decks or Shalai, Voice of Plenty in Chord of Calling decks."
4 Faithless Looting:
I really think Faithless Looting is the engine that drives this deck. Ever since the success of recent Temur Delver builds that incorporated the card, I have been a believer in this card in fair decks, especially in decks that need only three or fewer lands to operate as looting can discard extra lands that are drawn in the lategame into more gas. I like it even more in this deck because we have situational cards that are often dead in multiples, like the namesake Temur Battle Rage, and our delve cards. The icing on the cake is that it fuels our graveyard, replacing thought scour as the dark ritual effect of choice used to power out early Hooties and lategame Become Immense combo kills. I could see the number of faithless looting being changed from 4 to 3 though, as you only really want to draw 1 or 2 during the course of a game.
3 Mutagenic Growth:
This card ranges from being the best card in the deck to the worst. This card shines when paired with Temur Battle Rage and Kiln Fiend and enables some of this decks craziest turns. Other times it serves as a 0-mana counter spell, countering a Lightning Bolt targeting a flipped Delver or a Kiln Fiend. I've even used it as a pseudo-removal spell to push our Goyfs over the top of opposing Goyfs or delve creatures who think blocking is a good idea. There is tension here because you want to have as many in your hand as possible when you cast a Battle Rage, but aside from that the situations where you want more than 1 are limited at best. The more growths we have in our deck the higher are our chances to K.O. the opponent on turn 3, and that's why I decided 3 is the best number.
2 Become Immense:
I really wanted to put 3 of these in the deck, but I realized that since I have 3 Hootie McMandrills in the deck, I was stretching my graveyard to the max. I can see another version of the deck that runs 4 Thought Scour, 4 Faithless Looting, and 4 Mishra's Bauble that could pull it off, but that's a lot of spots dedicated to filling up the graveyard and I don't know if its worth it.
4 Kiln Fiend:
This card has been surprisingly good. Its a scary card that opponents will do everything in their power to not let you untap with, acting as a removal magnet against control strategies and a way to win the game out of nowhere against decks that want to try and race you instead of interacting with your stuff. Previously against decks that tried to go faster than us, we would try and have to revert to a control deck, boarding in Anger of the Gods or [insert your favorite red sweeper here], hoping the opponent would overextend so we could topple all of their creatures with one fell swoop and then stabilize with a Huntmaster of the Fells. I have found this approach to be medium at best and not effective since our deck does not have the land count and spot removal necessary that allow control decks to pull off a similar strategy. Kiln Fiend gives this deck some much needed speed and threat density that I have been looking for in Temur Delver for quite a while. Bonus points for being a threat that works well with Stubborn Denial!!!
Sideboard 3 Spellskite:
This is a pet card taken out of the pages of infect, enabling us to go for a combo kill without worrying that the opponent is going to mess it all up with a pesky fatal push or path. I like it against removal-dense decks, (except K-command decks), and burn. Still testing it out.
Sideboard 2 Delay:
This card is a hidden gem I have carried over here from Death's Shadow. I like this card a lot more than Disdainful Stroke because its more flexible and often does the same thing. Just think: the games where they end up living 3 more turns to cast their spells are often games where we are going to lose anyways. Its also easier to cast than Deprive, so it gets the nod over that spell as well.
Last note:
The first iteration of this deck played 3 Monastery Swiftspear instead of 3 Hooting Mandrills. I quickly realized that Taylor Swiftspear was the worst card in the deck that did nothing without the supporting cast of Become Immensely-Famous and Temur Baby-Rage and switched to a shell that could support Hooting Mandrills. I like Mandrills a lot because 1) it has 4 power for stubborn denial 2) 4/4 body with trample > 1/2 with prowess 3) is still a one-mana threat.
If I find the time, I am going to be trying to get a 5-0 finish in Magic Online with this deck, so cheer me on! If you have any questions about the deck or suggestions I would be happy to hear them! See ya later and thanks for reading my rambling.
I wish you all the luck you need.
But isn't shadow just a better deck? I mean I don't mind playing temur even if it is a worse deck since I like how it plays.
Your deck is quite similar to shadow. So why playing a worse version? (Is it a worse version btw?)
Note that I don't want to dismiss your deck. I hope you can 5-0. Let us know
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Decks played: Modern:
0 Affinity;
URG Delver
URGW Countercats
(Here you can find some video contents about Countercats and Temur Delver decks)
Missed the 5-0 by one game! Ended up going 4-1, with wins against Dredge, Jund, Bant Spirits, 8-Rack, and a loss against Scapeshift (and if I drew a second land I would have won that match too).
@Mikefon
I don't think this version of Temur Delver is a worse version of a Death's Shadow deck for the following reasons:
The addition of Kiln Fiend as another threat now makes deciding which threat package is best a lot closer. Delver actually feels decent again because he soaks up removal that would otherwise be pointed at our Kiln Fiends. I've also had some games where an early Delver chipped in 6 points of damage but then died, opponent felt comfortable at 14 life but that was just enough to be in range of a combo K.O. from an angry Temur Battle Rage'd Hootie.
This deck is actually a better Temur Battle Rage deck than Death's Shadow. When you have Become Immense and Mutagenic Growth in your deck, you can make any creature into a Death's Shadow-sized monstrosity for that turn where you need to K.O. the opponent. Whereas in DS, you only have 4 copies of Death's Shadow and maybe 2 copies of Battle Rage in your deck, this deck has effectively more copies of each between the cantrips, Kiln-Fiends, and pump spells.
Starting the game at 20 life is better than starting the game at 12 life. The painful manabase, Thoughtseizes, Streetwraiths, and Dismembers of Death's Shadow makes trying to conserve your lifetotal against an aggro deck laughable, forcing you to either find your copy of Death's Shadow and Temur Battle Rage for the win, or end up casting a Gurmag Angler that's not fast enough and dying. I know I'm making some broad and sweeping generalizations here, and some Death's Shadow expert is going to come and tell me that's not how you navigate the aggro matchup, but the point I'm trying to make is if you have two decks that have a similar clock, the one that starts at a higher life total has an advantage over one that has a lower starting life total because it allows for better racing opportunities and gives you more time to find a way to close the game.
The increase in threat density (aka adding Kiln Fiend to the deck and taking out Ambush Viper aka Snapcaster Mage) coupled with the fact that we only need one creature to stick to the battlefield for us to win the game has made it so that curving threat -> countermagic/pump actually works against decks with a dedicated removal package. All we need is one turn where they let the shields down and POW, we send them flying across the room because the entire time they have been trying to take out our dudes we have been stockpiling pump spells. Eventually, one is going to get through the deflector shields as our deck is built to draw more threats than they are able to draw answers to (thanks faithless looting!).
I'm interested in retrying the deck, but I'm always frustrated when my opponent drops their opposing fatty. How do you deal with a powered up DS? T3 angler? etc. It seems bad dumping a bunch of pump spells into our dudes trying to run over their opposing fatties. Thoughts?
@ LaCapraContenta
I wish I had a better plan against Jund. They have a lot of cards that are problematic for us such as Scavenging Ooze, Liliana of the Veil, Fatal Push, and now Assassin's Trophy. In Death's Shadow I would side in 3 copies of Claim // Fame and call it a day. But we have no such tools here. I thought Spellskite would be good against them, but Kolaghan's Command I found out is an easy way for them to get around that. The way I beat the Jund deck in the league was luck I think. For example I stole a close game out of nowhere when I attacked with a 4/5 Tarmogoyf and cast Become Immense, which is the last thing my opponent expected. Another game they plopped a huge goyf into play on turn 3, which I attacked into with my Goyf, they blocked and then lost their Goyf because I cast a Mutagenic Growth on mine. I will be working on this matchup though in the meantime, because its definitely not one I'm happy with. Let me know if you have any sideboard strategies that might be effective (Risk Factor maybe????)
aren't 3 Grudges a 2 revelry a bit of oversiding? When do you need all of them?
Couldn't be EE a better option than a 3rd grudge?
Yes, looking at the amount of Artifact hate, I think I'm over-doing it a bit. I can't think of a scenario where I'm boarding in all of these except against affinity. An EE could be really good there.
And no sweeper nor grave hate? You just try to be faster than those decks?
That is the plan. I reason I am able to beat the go-wide creature decks with a huge trampling threat, using spot removal to slow them down. I was also scared of putting a sweeper in the deck that would kill our Kiln Fiends. Temur Battle Rage makes not having a Pyroclasm-like effect in our deck not as necessary, but I could be wrong.
As for graveyard decks, we really need help against them. Its now possible to race them, but only if they have a slow start. My list that I play in paper has 3 Surgical Extractions in it, whereas my MTGO list doesn't (because tix are expensiveee). I would recommend graveyard hate.
Here is an updated list, with Bauble getting the cut for an extra land, thought scour, and a tarfire. Sideboard updated too.
Hey Riku, sweet list. I think it wants Baubles still because 5/6 Goyf reliably is crazy esp. with TBR. For testing I'm starting with -1 HM -1 TS +2 Bauble. Also, could Maximize Velocity have a home here as a one-of? Can bin it to Looting early to "store" one discard for later, and it's two spells right away for growing Kiln. Also it's nice with all our threats, especially Mandrills (who doesn't benefit so much from trample on Become) and pairs well with any of our pump spells (ft. TBR or BI it represents a win condition out of nowhere). If opponents see it or if we discard it they are forced to play differently for the whole match, Splinter Twin-style. Could try cutting a Muta for it or one of the BIs. MV and Bauble basically give our Lootings more value since they are juicy discards.
Finally I don't really understand the Tar in side. Make it a Forked Bolt? Better at the task you're bringing that card in for. Also agree you have way too much artifact hate. I'd trade the third one for Abrade at the very least.
Edit --- graveyard hate seems to hose you since you don't have Hunt or Hazo or something in the side. Maybe Crackling Drake is a good option for this role, as it retains midrange applications while synergizing with the combo cards. Skite seems quite bad if you need space; I've always preferred overloading removal after side with creatures that fulfill other roles, rather than trying to divert it.
All that said, I have yet to put in a single match with this deck, so my ideas may well be way off! But I'm interested in hearing your response to them nonetheless.
the card itself really isn't worth the card board its printed on...does it serve a purpose? Sure its a blue 1 drop that might not be a 1/1. I would not put it in a list and expect to win a PTQ or GP though.
Maximize Velocity is some sweet sweet tech. I love it! I have missed the haste that enabled an enlargened Monastery Swiftspear to kill an unwary opponent out of nowhere, I will test this out right away.
The Tarfires in the side was basically for matchups where I wanted bolts number 5-6. I usually cut Bauble in those matchups so I wanted something that would still keep our Goyfs at peak efficiency, and Tarfire is great at that. However if you value the chance of killing two x/1 dudes more than that, then Forked Bolt might be the way to go.
Hazoret is another great suggestion for the sideboard that I will be trying. However I would like to point out that we have ways to win through graveyard hate (via Delver and Kiln Fiend who operate independently from the GY), whereas in previous iterations of the deck, Delver was our only hope in the face of graveyard hate, so we'd have to bring in the big guns from the board to help him out. I don't know if that is necessary here since we have those 4 extra threats that don't rely on the graveyard but I could be wrong. I like Hazoret a lot though because of her resilience and hastiness.
Counter-Cat
Colorless Eldrazi Stompy
Thanks, I didn't notice.
I like frenzy a bit more since you can also play land (and threats). I agree that there's a bit of tension with cantrips. Less with serum visions though since you can use it to set up new cards to cast. I'll try it and report how it goes.
Modern:
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Misty Rainforest
3 Wooded Foothills
2 Steam Vents
1 Breeding Pool
1 Stomping Ground
2 Island
1 Forest
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Hooting Mandrills
3 Young Pyromancer
1 Snapcaster Mage
4 Faithless Looting
4 Vapor Snag
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Forked Bolt
3 Mana Leak
3 Spell Pierce
2 Stubborn Denial
1 Traverse the Ulvenwald
3 Damping Sphere
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Destructive Revelry
3 Huntmaster of the Fells
1 Hazoret the Fervent
2 Firespout
2 Stubborn Denial
Certainly not worth a report as I had not played the game in two months and kept piling on mistakes, probably one of my worst result ever.
Most matches felt winnable though (Tron, UR Delver, Burn) except for one painful loss against Dredge. Took an absolute beating both games including a T3 kill, Creeping Chill for 9 dmg both times, etc...
How the **** do you win? How would you recommend I sideboard?
Modern: MONKEY GROW & Amulet Titan
Legacy: RG Lands
EDH: Merieke Ri Berit Esper Good stuff
Creeping chill is a problem though. There's nothing it can be done to it (except unplayable Trickbind and Nimble Obstructionist). If they're are lucky enough they start at 29 ad opponents start at 11. That pretty annoying. I don't like those abilities. I hate them as much as on-cast trigger. Why they just don't let it cast for free if milled, then exiled as flashback does? It would have been neater and could have been answered with counter.
Modern:
Modern: MONKEY GROW & Amulet Titan
Legacy: RG Lands
EDH: Merieke Ri Berit Esper Good stuff
Can you post your sideboard too please?
Modern:
Modern: MONKEY GROW & Amulet Titan
Legacy: RG Lands
EDH: Merieke Ri Berit Esper Good stuff
Brag away man! We love when this deck wins!
Modern: MONKEY GROW & Amulet Titan
Legacy: RG Lands
EDH: Merieke Ri Berit Esper Good stuff
I have been working on a new shell of Temur Delver and the results so far have been promising. First before getting to the list, a little context. I have been off of the Temur Delver wagon after experimenting with various Death's Shadow variants and coming to the conclusion that Death's Shadow just does what this deck wants to do but better for the following reasons:
My most recent brew with Death's Shadow was one that went all-in on the temur battle rage plan, based off this
deck that hearkened back to the days of suicide zoo, forgoing delve threats in favor of Become immense and one-mana beaters Death's Shadow, Monastery Swiftspear, and Wild Nacatl. Wild Nacatl stretched that deck's manabase to the extremes, and I began pursuing a version of the deck that had a more stable manabase. That led me to trying a version of the deck that was Jund colors and who's threat base consisted of Swiftspear, Shadow, and pauper all star Kiln Fiend. The deck could generate quick wins in the face of minimal interaction, but withered under the effect of concentrated spot-removal. I then tried to build a version of the deck that would sideboard into Stubborn Denials to help alleviate this problem, but in the end I couldn't get the manabase where I wanted it and gave up.
Then I had a crazy thought: What if I were to play Temur Battle Rage in a deck that didn't play Death's Shadow? Crazy right? I went to work right away building a shell that would incorporate what I liked about the Temur Battle Rage decks I have played and also my substantial experience with Temur Delver and Death's Shadow and ended up here:
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Kiln Fiend
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Hooting Mandrills
Spells (28)
4 Serum Visions
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Faithless Looting
3 Mishra's Bauble
3 Temur Battle Rage
3 Mutagenic Growth
3 Stubborn Denial
2 Thought Scour
2 Become Immense
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Misty Rainforest
3 Wooded Foothills
2 Steam Vents
1 Stomping Ground
1 Breeding Pool
1 Island
1 Forest
1 Mountain
3 Ancient Grudge
3 Spellskite
2 Delay
2 Damping Sphere
2 Destructive Revelry
2 Tarfire
1 Stubborn Denial
Thoughts about deck building choices:
To decide on the exact number of copies of cards I wanted to play in the maindeck, I utilized Frank Karsten's advice from a 2018 article titled "How Many Copies of Any Given Card Should You Put in Your Deck?"
To quote:
4 Faithless Looting:
I really think Faithless Looting is the engine that drives this deck. Ever since the success of recent Temur Delver builds that incorporated the card, I have been a believer in this card in fair decks, especially in decks that need only three or fewer lands to operate as looting can discard extra lands that are drawn in the lategame into more gas. I like it even more in this deck because we have situational cards that are often dead in multiples, like the namesake Temur Battle Rage, and our delve cards. The icing on the cake is that it fuels our graveyard, replacing thought scour as the dark ritual effect of choice used to power out early Hooties and lategame Become Immense combo kills. I could see the number of faithless looting being changed from 4 to 3 though, as you only really want to draw 1 or 2 during the course of a game.
3 Mutagenic Growth:
This card ranges from being the best card in the deck to the worst. This card shines when paired with Temur Battle Rage and Kiln Fiend and enables some of this decks craziest turns. Other times it serves as a 0-mana counter spell, countering a Lightning Bolt targeting a flipped Delver or a Kiln Fiend. I've even used it as a pseudo-removal spell to push our Goyfs over the top of opposing Goyfs or delve creatures who think blocking is a good idea. There is tension here because you want to have as many in your hand as possible when you cast a Battle Rage, but aside from that the situations where you want more than 1 are limited at best. The more growths we have in our deck the higher are our chances to K.O. the opponent on turn 3, and that's why I decided 3 is the best number.
2 Become Immense:
I really wanted to put 3 of these in the deck, but I realized that since I have 3 Hootie McMandrills in the deck, I was stretching my graveyard to the max. I can see another version of the deck that runs 4 Thought Scour, 4 Faithless Looting, and 4 Mishra's Bauble that could pull it off, but that's a lot of spots dedicated to filling up the graveyard and I don't know if its worth it.
4 Kiln Fiend:
This card has been surprisingly good. Its a scary card that opponents will do everything in their power to not let you untap with, acting as a removal magnet against control strategies and a way to win the game out of nowhere against decks that want to try and race you instead of interacting with your stuff. Previously against decks that tried to go faster than us, we would try and have to revert to a control deck, boarding in Anger of the Gods or [insert your favorite red sweeper here], hoping the opponent would overextend so we could topple all of their creatures with one fell swoop and then stabilize with a Huntmaster of the Fells. I have found this approach to be medium at best and not effective since our deck does not have the land count and spot removal necessary that allow control decks to pull off a similar strategy. Kiln Fiend gives this deck some much needed speed and threat density that I have been looking for in Temur Delver for quite a while. Bonus points for being a threat that works well with Stubborn Denial!!!
Sideboard 3 Spellskite:
This is a pet card taken out of the pages of infect, enabling us to go for a combo kill without worrying that the opponent is going to mess it all up with a pesky fatal push or path. I like it against removal-dense decks, (except K-command decks), and burn. Still testing it out.
Sideboard 2 Delay:
This card is a hidden gem I have carried over here from Death's Shadow. I like this card a lot more than Disdainful Stroke because its more flexible and often does the same thing. Just think: the games where they end up living 3 more turns to cast their spells are often games where we are going to lose anyways. Its also easier to cast than Deprive, so it gets the nod over that spell as well.
Last note:
The first iteration of this deck played 3 Monastery Swiftspear instead of 3 Hooting Mandrills. I quickly realized that Taylor Swiftspear was the worst card in the deck that did nothing without the supporting cast of Become Immensely-Famous and Temur Baby-Rage and switched to a shell that could support Hooting Mandrills. I like Mandrills a lot because 1) it has 4 power for stubborn denial 2) 4/4 body with trample > 1/2 with prowess 3) is still a one-mana threat.
If I find the time, I am going to be trying to get a 5-0 finish in Magic Online with this deck, so cheer me on! If you have any questions about the deck or suggestions I would be happy to hear them! See ya later and thanks for reading my rambling.
Modern: MONKEY GROW & Amulet Titan
Legacy: RG Lands
EDH: Merieke Ri Berit Esper Good stuff
But isn't shadow just a better deck? I mean I don't mind playing temur even if it is a worse deck since I like how it plays.
Your deck is quite similar to shadow. So why playing a worse version? (Is it a worse version btw?)
Note that I don't want to dismiss your deck. I hope you can 5-0. Let us know
Modern:
@Mikefon
I don't think this version of Temur Delver is a worse version of a Death's Shadow deck for the following reasons:
Pity for the lack of luck. Keep trying.
Modern:
Modern:
I wish I had a better plan against Jund. They have a lot of cards that are problematic for us such as Scavenging Ooze, Liliana of the Veil, Fatal Push, and now Assassin's Trophy. In Death's Shadow I would side in 3 copies of Claim // Fame and call it a day. But we have no such tools here. I thought Spellskite would be good against them, but Kolaghan's Command I found out is an easy way for them to get around that. The way I beat the Jund deck in the league was luck I think. For example I stole a close game out of nowhere when I attacked with a 4/5 Tarmogoyf and cast Become Immense, which is the last thing my opponent expected. Another game they plopped a huge goyf into play on turn 3, which I attacked into with my Goyf, they blocked and then lost their Goyf because I cast a Mutagenic Growth on mine. I will be working on this matchup though in the meantime, because its definitely not one I'm happy with. Let me know if you have any sideboard strategies that might be effective (Risk Factor maybe????)
As for graveyard decks, we really need help against them. Its now possible to race them, but only if they have a slow start. My list that I play in paper has 3 Surgical Extractions in it, whereas my MTGO list doesn't (because tix are expensiveee). I would recommend graveyard hate.
Here is an updated list, with Bauble getting the cut for an extra land, thought scour, and a tarfire. Sideboard updated too.
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Kiln Fiend
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Hooting Mandrills
Spells (27)
4 Serum Visions
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Faithless Looting
3 Temur Battle Rage
3 Mutagenic Growth
3 Stubborn Denial
3 Thought Scour
2 Become Immense
1 Tarfire
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Misty Rainforest
3 Wooded Foothills
2 Steam Vents
1 Stomping Ground
1 Breeding Pool
1 Island
1 Forest
1 Mountain
3 Surgical Extraction
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Spellskite
2 Delay
2 Damping Sphere
1 Destructive Revelry
1 Tarfire
1 Stubborn Denial
1 Engineered Explosives
Finally I don't really understand the Tar in side. Make it a Forked Bolt? Better at the task you're bringing that card in for. Also agree you have way too much artifact hate. I'd trade the third one for Abrade at the very least.
Edit --- graveyard hate seems to hose you since you don't have Hunt or Hazo or something in the side. Maybe Crackling Drake is a good option for this role, as it retains midrange applications while synergizing with the combo cards. Skite seems quite bad if you need space; I've always preferred overloading removal after side with creatures that fulfill other roles, rather than trying to divert it.
All that said, I have yet to put in a single match with this deck, so my ideas may well be way off! But I'm interested in hearing your response to them nonetheless.
Counter-Cat
Colorless Eldrazi Stompy
The Tarfires in the side was basically for matchups where I wanted bolts number 5-6. I usually cut Bauble in those matchups so I wanted something that would still keep our Goyfs at peak efficiency, and Tarfire is great at that. However if you value the chance of killing two x/1 dudes more than that, then Forked Bolt might be the way to go.
Hazoret is another great suggestion for the sideboard that I will be trying. However I would like to point out that we have ways to win through graveyard hate (via Delver and Kiln Fiend who operate independently from the GY), whereas in previous iterations of the deck, Delver was our only hope in the face of graveyard hate, so we'd have to bring in the big guns from the board to help him out. I don't know if that is necessary here since we have those 4 extra threats that don't rely on the graveyard but I could be wrong. I like Hazoret a lot though because of her resilience and hastiness.
Modern: MONKEY GROW & Amulet Titan
Legacy: RG Lands
EDH: Merieke Ri Berit Esper Good stuff