The list looks... Messy? I mean. Huge congrats.. But... Then again... I'm bad at magic.
I had the same feeling too. Maybe he wanted to maximize shoals' impact, And curiosity was an already successful tech. But it has surely too few sorcery. In any case congrats. It would be great if Alessandro could explain his choices and possible changes.
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Decks played: Modern:
0 Affinity;
URG Delver
URGW Countercats
(Here you can find some video contents about Countercats and Temur Delver decks)
My first thought was the diversified Mana Leak slot. They have 1 Leak, 1 Remand, and 1 Deprive, which is quite interesting. I imagine they wanted to minimize the negative impact of having too many Leaks late-game, too many Remands against 1-mana spells, or too many Deprives when light on U sources.
I actually like the list a lot. It goes hard on Tempo with 3 bounce spells and great Shoals. 18 1-CMC pitches, and 9 2-CMC pitches, while running 3 Baubles. I will probably steal a bunch of ideas from this to work on my Chart list, which I think is pretty exchangeable with Curiosity, offering a similar effect with a higher floor but lower ceiling.
If anything looks somewhat odd, I'd say the sideboard looks a little out there. Hazoret is something I considered when I mentioned Keranos, but I don't like how cleanly Path answers it. The board has a lot of one-offs that don't see a lot of play these days, but then again, the deck doesn't see a lot of play. I think all of the choices make sense, as they can easily be sorted into land hate, resilient threats, recursion, artifact/enchantment hate, sweepers, and graveyard hate. That all makes sense.
I actually like this list quite a bit. I think it might look weird to us at first glance, especially because we are used to running specific stuff, but I think it all makes sense, and it looks good.
Edit: I was comparing my Chart list to the list that top 16'ed. They have 61 cards, unless my math is off. Notable, but I'm not sure it's really relevant.
I know peoples are playing around with 2 creature slots and looking at alcamist and knuckles. But has anyone considered 1 knuckles 1 rhonas? I mean it sucks if it gets stuck alone but the pumps good in mid-late game and It dodges both push and bolt. And 8-9 creatures activate in normally and all can if you play rhonas Rancor ability. I kind of like the idea of Turning snapcaster into a 4/1.trampling beater
Im inexperienced.with the deck but learning so I'm not shore if it's a bit win more in this build?
The problem with Rhonas the Indomitable is that if you don't have another non-delver creature in play it's useless and you can't afford to have useless card in this deck. It's an awful top deck in an empty board. That said it's true that it turns on ferocious and may helps with other threats (6/7 tarmogoyf that can become a 8/7 trample seems sweet!). I'm currently trying a Tireless Tracker in that slot and it keeps overperforming in each match in which I see it so I can't dismiss it. I may give it a shot if I manage to get rid of tracker . Jokes aside, I'll keep notes when I play tracker of the differences with rhonas.
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Decks played: Modern:
0 Affinity;
URG Delver
URGW Countercats
(Here you can find some video contents about Countercats and Temur Delver decks)
How do we feel about a number of essence scatter in the main for a bit? Also thinking of vclique in the board for a bit.
What would you cut for them? I see them quite narrow and less important than the other counterspells we play. It become completly useless against cavern of souls decks.
Vendilion in side is plausible. It depends on the meta and your deck's configuration.
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Decks played: Modern:
0 Affinity;
URG Delver
URGW Countercats
(Here you can find some video contents about Countercats and Temur Delver decks)
https://youtu.be/RLS4d-p-2WE i found this temur gro deck for standard on youtube do you guys think it would really work ?
I personally don't know since I don't follow standard any more after nationals (got bored after two weeks of testing).
Why did you post a standard deck in a modern thread by the way?
Or you actually mean in modern?
It is a Standard deck. It plays "grow" style creatures which get bigger while you play Magic. Counters, cantrips, burn, and such to back it up. Looks like a Tempo deck. I have no idea if it is any good because I also don't follow Standard.
Matt-watsonman, are you asking if this would work in Standard? Because we have no idea, and besides being a similar archetype, it is unrelated.
If you are asking if this kind of deck works in Modern, that is very related. It sort of does. This thread is dedicated to working on a very similar deck, and it can perform. You need to make a lot of good decisions though, so it is very punishing, especially at first.
Edit: Changed how I typed your username because the forum detected the second t and wat as a bad word and bleeped it. I didn't know it had censoring. That's neat.
Try it and see? We obviously play our rug delver lists because we enjoy it more than net decking grixis shadow for more W's. Not really sure exactly what info we can offer. You're asking for an evaluation of a deck we have no experience with in a format with far more potent answers with a completely different meta to play around. I always enjoy playing l with and against home brews. It's what makes this game fun. But in the end, it's completely up to each pilot on what they play and why.
the card itself really isn't worth the card board its printed on...does it serve a purpose? Sure its a blue 1 drop that might not be a 1/1. I would not put it in a list and expect to win a PTQ or GP though.
What do you think would put this deck over the top? Some unbans? Maybe probe? A meta swing? Some new cards?
IMO it needs two things:
1) a playable hard removal spell (something like Path/Push)
2) a consistency bump (something like Probe/another Delver)
With both of those things wouldn't it be too strong?
Then how could a hard removal be print in GUR colors? Could a card like memory lapse be a good start or it wouldn't be enough (or maybe even better "put target spell on top of its owner's library" so to avoid uncounterable spell)?
I can see a delver-like threat a little bit more plausible in the near future though. I keep fingers crossed
By the way here's a little update on cards I'm trying. Echoing truth: it's a blast. It made me win so many games I'm thinking about a second slot. You can remove anything and all tokens at once. I could also bounce 3 exarch once buying me enough time to win before he could combo. Tireless tracker: it's good but a bit more meta dependant. A couple of time I wished it was a Savage Knuckleblade for haste or base 4 power, but against midrange/control it wins by itself. It can also grow more than delve threats or smaller eldrazi. It stalls the board and buys you time and cards to get out of many pesky situations. For now it stays in then I'll see.
I like the idea of tracker, I was thinking of trying it out myself. Are you running three mandrills and tracker and another open slot? Or four mandrills and one tracker?
I like the idea of tracker, I was thinking of trying it out myself. Are you running three mandrills and tracker and another open slot? Or four mandrills and one tracker?
3 mandrills, 1 knuckleblade, 1 tracker which is the only flex slot among creatures.
Next card I'll try is turn // burn. I like more burn, more pseudo removal for bigger creatures and more choices. The slot is alas the one of tracker which was moved to the sideboard (maybe cutting the third moon? Still don't know for sure). I'll update soon.
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Decks played: Modern:
0 Affinity;
URG Delver
URGW Countercats
(Here you can find some video contents about Countercats and Temur Delver decks)
What do you think would put this deck over the top? Some unbans? Maybe probe? A meta swing? Some new cards?
IMO it needs two things:
1) a playable hard removal spell (something like Path/Push)
2) a consistency bump (something like Probe/another Delver)
With both of those things wouldn't it be too strong?
Then how could a hard removal be print in GUR colors? Could a card like memory lapse be a good start or it wouldn't be enough (or maybe even better "put target spell on top of its owner's library" so to avoid uncounterable spell)?
I can see a delver-like threat a little bit more plausible in the near future though. I keep fingers crossed
I think it would be fine. We basically have both in Counter-Cat already, which is why I prefer that version. Not saying this deck becomes good when Wizards prints a good RUG-colored removal spell; I agree that's pretty implausible. Just saying it's something this deck badly misses that would help make it competitive.
the card itself really isn't worth the card board its printed on...does it serve a purpose? Sure its a blue 1 drop that might not be a 1/1. I would not put it in a list and expect to win a PTQ or GP though.
This is my list i have been playing with online. Albeit not in leagues, i've been playing in the tournament practice room for 15 matches with it to get the pace down and the play pattern. Of note i am 13-2 with it playing against all real decks. I lost to eldrazi tron and jund midrange. I've really been enjoying the deck, i love bauble and delver's interaction. At first glance you would think they don't get along but any hand with delver and bauble almost assuredly means it's flipping on turn 1. I think the traverse's have been great and i've really loved blossoming defense
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Modern:
Modern: MONKEY GROW & Amulet Titan
Legacy: RG Lands
EDH: Merieke Ri Berit Esper Good stuff
I had the same feeling too. Maybe he wanted to maximize shoals' impact, And curiosity was an already successful tech. But it has surely too few sorcery. In any case congrats. It would be great if Alessandro could explain his choices and possible changes.
Modern:
I actually like the list a lot. It goes hard on Tempo with 3 bounce spells and great Shoals. 18 1-CMC pitches, and 9 2-CMC pitches, while running 3 Baubles. I will probably steal a bunch of ideas from this to work on my Chart list, which I think is pretty exchangeable with Curiosity, offering a similar effect with a higher floor but lower ceiling.
If anything looks somewhat odd, I'd say the sideboard looks a little out there. Hazoret is something I considered when I mentioned Keranos, but I don't like how cleanly Path answers it. The board has a lot of one-offs that don't see a lot of play these days, but then again, the deck doesn't see a lot of play. I think all of the choices make sense, as they can easily be sorted into land hate, resilient threats, recursion, artifact/enchantment hate, sweepers, and graveyard hate. That all makes sense.
I actually like this list quite a bit. I think it might look weird to us at first glance, especially because we are used to running specific stuff, but I think it all makes sense, and it looks good.
Edit: I was comparing my Chart list to the list that top 16'ed. They have 61 cards, unless my math is off. Notable, but I'm not sure it's really relevant.
Interested in RUG (Temur) Delver in Modern? Find gameplay with live commentary at https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC8UcKe8jVh1e2N4CHbd3fhg
Modern: MONKEY GROW & Amulet Titan
Legacy: RG Lands
EDH: Merieke Ri Berit Esper Good stuff
The problem with Rhonas the Indomitable is that if you don't have another non-delver creature in play it's useless and you can't afford to have useless card in this deck. It's an awful top deck in an empty board. That said it's true that it turns on ferocious and may helps with other threats (6/7 tarmogoyf that can become a 8/7 trample seems sweet!). I'm currently trying a Tireless Tracker in that slot and it keeps overperforming in each match in which I see it so I can't dismiss it. I may give it a shot if I manage to get rid of tracker . Jokes aside, I'll keep notes when I play tracker of the differences with rhonas.
Modern:
Modern: MONKEY GROW & Amulet Titan
Legacy: RG Lands
EDH: Merieke Ri Berit Esper Good stuff
What would you cut for them? I see them quite narrow and less important than the other counterspells we play. It become completly useless against cavern of souls decks.
Vendilion in side is plausible. It depends on the meta and your deck's configuration.
Modern:
Modern: MONKEY GROW & Amulet Titan
Legacy: RG Lands
EDH: Merieke Ri Berit Esper Good stuff
I personally don't know since I don't follow standard any more after nationals (got bored after two weeks of testing).
Why did you post a standard deck in a modern thread by the way?
Or you actually mean in modern?
Modern:
Matt-watsonman, are you asking if this would work in Standard? Because we have no idea, and besides being a similar archetype, it is unrelated.
If you are asking if this kind of deck works in Modern, that is very related. It sort of does. This thread is dedicated to working on a very similar deck, and it can perform. You need to make a lot of good decisions though, so it is very punishing, especially at first.
Edit: Changed how I typed your username because the forum detected the second t and wat as a bad word and bleeped it. I didn't know it had censoring. That's neat.
Interested in RUG (Temur) Delver in Modern? Find gameplay with live commentary at https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC8UcKe8jVh1e2N4CHbd3fhg
Modern: MONKEY GROW & Amulet Titan
Legacy: RG Lands
EDH: Merieke Ri Berit Esper Good stuff
1) a playable hard removal spell (something like Path/Push)
2) a consistency bump (something like Probe/another Delver)
Counter-Cat
Colorless Eldrazi Stompy
With both of those things wouldn't it be too strong?
Then how could a hard removal be print in GUR colors? Could a card like memory lapse be a good start or it wouldn't be enough (or maybe even better "put target spell on top of its owner's library" so to avoid uncounterable spell)?
I can see a delver-like threat a little bit more plausible in the near future though. I keep fingers crossed
By the way here's a little update on cards I'm trying.
Echoing truth: it's a blast. It made me win so many games I'm thinking about a second slot. You can remove anything and all tokens at once. I could also bounce 3 exarch once buying me enough time to win before he could combo.
Tireless tracker: it's good but a bit more meta dependant. A couple of time I wished it was a Savage Knuckleblade for haste or base 4 power, but against midrange/control it wins by itself. It can also grow more than delve threats or smaller eldrazi. It stalls the board and buys you time and cards to get out of many pesky situations. For now it stays in then I'll see.
Modern:
3 mandrills, 1 knuckleblade, 1 tracker which is the only flex slot among creatures.
Next card I'll try is turn // burn. I like more burn, more pseudo removal for bigger creatures and more choices. The slot is alas the one of tracker which was moved to the sideboard (maybe cutting the third moon? Still don't know for sure). I'll update soon.
Modern:
Counter-Cat
Colorless Eldrazi Stompy
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Wooded Foothills
2 Steam Vents
1 Breeding Pool
1 Stomping Ground
2 Island
1 Forest
1 Mountain
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Tarmogoyf
1 Snapcaster Mage
1 Savage Knuckleblade
3 Hooting Mandrills
3 Mishra's Bauble
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Tarfire
3 Vapor Snag
4 Serum Visions
2 Thought Scour
2 Traverse the Ulvenwald
3 Stubborn Denial
1 Blossoming Defense
1 Simic Charm
2 Chart a Course
2 Mana Leak
1 Dismember
1 Dispel
1 Negate
1 Izzet Staticaster
2 Ancient Grudge
1 Destructive Revelry
2 Blood Moon
1 Pia and Kiran Nalaar
1 Huntmaster of the Fells
2 Pyroclasm
This is my list i have been playing with online. Albeit not in leagues, i've been playing in the tournament practice room for 15 matches with it to get the pace down and the play pattern. Of note i am 13-2 with it playing against all real decks. I lost to eldrazi tron and jund midrange. I've really been enjoying the deck, i love bauble and delver's interaction. At first glance you would think they don't get along but any hand with delver and bauble almost assuredly means it's flipping on turn 1. I think the traverse's have been great and i've really loved blossoming defense