On a lighter note: have any of you also had a bunch of salty opponents online? Who say our deck isnt tiered and stands no chance? Ive heard this salty complaint for almost 2 years now (Cockatrice and Xmage). Just had a match now vs Abzan (I won). I find it funny, and I entertain them once the salt starts pouring.
Hey guys! I've been lurking this thread for a while and thought it was about time to chime in. I've been playing blue tron exclusively for the last two years, and finally decided to build a second deck, after finally retiring the naya zoo deck I never played anymore. After a lot of searching I stumbled across this thread and decided to try out the deck. I tested it on xmage for a while, and then about a month and a half ago started collecting pieces for the deck. Well the last few cards came in on thursday, so last night I sleeved up my cards and took it to the shop for FNM. Here's the decklist I took with me.
Overall I went 3-2, losing my first 2 matches to zombies and some wicked fast affinity. I learned my lesson from getting stomped by affinity the first time, though, and beat the second affinity player I saw that night 2-0. By round 4 I had absolutely fallen in love with the deck. I'll for sure be keeping it around for a while. I've also got most of the pieces for counter cat, which I might try out some week. This thread has been a lot of help in learning tho play the deck, so thanks everyone for contributing!
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Modern U Mono Best Tron RUG Monkey Grow Delver RUGW Cats n' Gnats UR Wizard Tribal with Grapeshot Combo
I absolutely agree! I think it's the deck's playstyle that makes me love it, but the challenge is what makes it rewarding.
I think losing Probe made me a better player too. I certainly spend enough time thinking about what they could have and what the right line is. Makes me wish I had recorded some matches pre-ban so I could see how in-depth my thinking process was back then.
Personally, I think the deck is easier to play now. I have found this for both Traverse and Sleight builds. We simply have fewer options in our games. Probe increased our velocity and gave us more choices to make.
What I have noticed is that I don't win as much without Probe, but I wouldn't say that's the deck becoming harder to pilot. It's the deck becoming less competent.
the card itself really isn't worth the card board its printed on...does it serve a purpose? Sure its a blue 1 drop that might not be a 1/1. I would not put it in a list and expect to win a PTQ or GP though.
On a lighter note: have any of you also had a bunch of salty opponents online? Who say our deck isnt tiered and stands no chance?
I got one of these a few days ago! The Storm player made fun of Mandrills's position in the meta due to Death's Shadow... While Mandrills killed them. Just before I beat them, they were nice enough to let me know that I shouldn't join a competitive game with Curiosity in the deck. So helpful!
I don't really like engaging them, because usually they just start to attack you,and it probably gives them some amount of satisfaction. I happened to be recording though, so I discussed their salt (and probably made fun of them a bit) with the theoretical audience!
Congrats, Squelch! What's your sideboard?
Ashton, Probe's unique cost did gives us more options. Maybe it was harder due to that. But once you decided that the right line involved Probing, sequencing did get easier. Of course, we did still have to consider that they were drawing cards we hadn't seen.
Do you guys bring EE in against Grixis Shadow? I like it against DSJ, but Grixis threats have much less convenient costs.
I'm working on my SB plans, and I'm not sure if they are up to snuff here.
Also, EE against Knightfall? I don't have much experience in this matchup. My gut tells me to just go for Moon and a threat, maybe bringing in just Revelry for enchantment and artifact hate.
And Elves! They are more explosive than Merfolk. EE seems too slow here. I think I'd rather depend on Pyroclasm, Bolts, counters, and Snapcaster. And of course Huntmaster.
I would definitely bring Explosives in against knightfall. Big KotRs spell trouble for us and their combo pieces also sit at three mana. Enchantment hate is a good choice not only for Retreat but potential Worship they have been known to bring in from the side.
I have two elves players at my store and I never worry about the matchup. Between, burn spells, Denials, Huntmasters and my two Pyroclasm I stomp them pretty hard. A quick threat, no matter what kind is needed however. They can't block Delver and they simply can't afford to keep chumping our ground troops because they need a critical mass of elves for mana and achieving lethal.
Side note: I had watched the stream with the salty storm player and in my experience with Xmage he is a notoriously toxic player. Really enjoying your videos btw.
I think you are right. Knight is more trouble than Dismember and bounce can handle. And with Red, they can easily get trample off of Wolf-Run, meaning we can't just chump with wolf tokens. Looking through the deck, they also run a lot of other creatures I'd like to blow up (Scooze and Voice tokens mainly).
Thanks for the advice. And the kind words! I really appreciate it.
Decks heavy on 2 drops or tokens I would bring EE in against. I do bring EE against Elves, but it is slow. I only bring it in if I am not removing anything more relevant. I would bring EE in against any DS deck.
My sideboard is still a work in progress right now. I have blood moons at least. They seemed important :p. Huntmasters are the priority right now, and I don't have EEs yet. It's mostly just regular old hate cards right now, plus a Young Pyromancer in there just for fun that I've never had a chance to run before in modern.
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Modern U Mono Best Tron RUG Monkey Grow Delver RUGW Cats n' Gnats UR Wizard Tribal with Grapeshot Combo
I played only a few games, but it reminded me of how difficult game one is. We really have to go hard on the beatdown. They do a good job stabilizing if we don't have a quick Delver start. Post board, it is far better. Huntmaster and Blood Moon do a lot of work.
How do you all find the matchup? Are there any cards you like in the main board to hedge game 1 (this is one of the things I like about Dismember)? Are there any other sideboard cards you find boost our chances? Do you think the Huntmaster/Moon plan is enough to make the matchup reasonable?
Its a bad matchup. I have won plenty of game 1's, but it does not mean its a good matchup. We need responses for all of their major plays, and if we dont, we fall behind too quick. I like deprive for matches like this, and my playset of Denials. Post board, I bring in Pongify, Moon, EE (for Chalice), Huntmaster, Destructive Revelry.
Its a bad matchup. I have won plenty of game 1's, but it does not mean its a good matchup. We need responses for all of their major plays, and if we dont, we fall behind too quick. I like deprive for matches like this, and my playset of Denials. Post board, I bring in Pongify, Moon, EE (for Chalice), Huntmaster, Destructive Revelry.
I don't think it's that bad actually. Moon and Hunt are awesome against them. You can just be fast and steal a lot of games with Delver/Goyf too. A lot of their plays you don't care so much about; the important ones are Endbringer and Smasher (incidentally, the easiest targets to Leak), and neither is as bad for us as a Wurmcoil. Chalice can also miss a lot against us and we have tons of answers for it.
the card itself really isn't worth the card board its printed on...does it serve a purpose? Sure its a blue 1 drop that might not be a 1/1. I would not put it in a list and expect to win a PTQ or GP though.
Hi guys, I've picked this deck back up recently for a modern 1k in about 2 weeks.
I have found the eldrazi tron matchup pretty medium. Game one, we lose to chalice. If they don't resolve a chalice and we keep a decent hand, we can probably make it.
Game 2 gets much easier, as we side in artifact removal and side out our dead cards. putting artifact in the graveyard makes our goyf a 5/6, just big enough to block their smashers.
Narnam reneegade has been huge in this matchup, as our little one drop trades with any of their nasty threats. keep mana up for karn, some way to answer relic/chalice, and you with your 5/6 goyf are in the clear!
The Eldrazi Tron matchup is not impossible for sure. But I dont find it a favorable one. Especially if you dont get pressure early. Its easy to say "just slam Moon and Master, GG". Its another thing to actually execute it. Mulliganing in these matchups just makes the fight a lot worse. I find Bant Eldrazi a far easier matchup, IMO.
Hi guys, I've picked this deck back up recently for a modern 1k in about 2 weeks.
I have found the eldrazi tron matchup pretty medium. Game one, we lose to chalice. If they don't resolve a chalice and we keep a decent hand, we can probably make it.
Game 2 gets much easier, as we side in artifact removal and side out our dead cards. putting artifact in the graveyard makes our goyf a 5/6, just big enough to block their smashers.
Narnam reneegade has been huge in this matchup, as our little one drop trades with any of their nasty threats. keep mana up for karn, some way to answer relic/chalice, and you with your 5/6 goyf are in the clear!
How much of this matchup have you actually played? It's rare for them to have Chalice at all in Game 1.
the card itself really isn't worth the card board its printed on...does it serve a purpose? Sure its a blue 1 drop that might not be a 1/1. I would not put it in a list and expect to win a PTQ or GP though.
I just double checked on mtggoldfish. It says that 76% of the sample lists there (I'm pretty sure those are the recent 5-0s) run 4 Chalice main.
I much prefer the Bant Eldrazi matchup. They are easier to disrupt, so it is easier to play a tempo or midrange game. Eldrazi Tron is harder because Chalice either baits our interaction or shuts it down, and they ramp in a way that is harder to interact with. Game 1 I find is almost always a race, and if we don't have early pressure, we usually don't get a win. Snapcaster and Traverse are nice for reach here. Postboard is significantly better because we can slow them down more, and play Huntmasters, but I don't know if it gets good enough to balance out the usual loss in game 1.
I think Bant and GX Tron are even at worst. I find Eldrazi Tron to be even at best.
Edit: The plus side of Eldrazi Tron shifting to 3 Dismember and 4 Chalice for its maindeck interaction is that fast starts with multiple threats (mostly Delvers) have a good shot. We just don't get these overly often because we aren't a dedicated aggro deck. Mulliganing for aggressive hands could help, but that seems awful in the dark.
the card itself really isn't worth the card board its printed on...does it serve a purpose? Sure its a blue 1 drop that might not be a 1/1. I would not put it in a list and expect to win a PTQ or GP though.
Ashton's post nicely sums up my struggles since the probe ban. Seems there isn't a path left that is 'ideal'.
I still think being competitive isn't an issue, but we're miles behind where we were a few months ago, and the format is always getting stronger.
I came back to check in with you guys to see how you've been doing, hoping for a positive surprise. I left the deck a few weeks after the Probe ban. It didn't take me more than a month to realize how much worse this deck was off without Probe, and I really did try to make it work. I felt like the deck did no longer to what it was supposed to do after it lost Probe. Gone were the days of über consistent T2 boltproof Goyf and Mandrills with counter protection up, and the loss of the hand information made our answers line up a lot worse. None of the reworked builds seem to make up for that. I'm kind of disappointed that it took you so long to realize (or just admit?), Ashton, my former Sensei, but kudos for giving it your best attempt. Losing my favourite deck ever still hurts, I have barely played the format since then.
RUG Temur Deprive Delver
BUG Sultai Deprive Delver
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Wooded Foothills
2 Steam Vents
1 Breeding Pool
1 Stomping Ground
1 Spirebluff Canal
2 Island
1 Forest
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Hooting Mandrills
4 Tarmogoyf
1 Snapcaster Mage
1 Narnam Renegade
Cantrips
4 Serum Visions
2 Sleight of Hand
4 Thought Scour
1 Peek
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Tarfire
2 Vapor Snag
Permission
4 Stubborn Denial
3 Deprive
2 Spell Snare
Utility
1 Curiosity
1 Traverse the Ulvenwald
1 Simic Charm
Overall I went 3-2, losing my first 2 matches to zombies and some wicked fast affinity. I learned my lesson from getting stomped by affinity the first time, though, and beat the second affinity player I saw that night 2-0. By round 4 I had absolutely fallen in love with the deck. I'll for sure be keeping it around for a while. I've also got most of the pieces for counter cat, which I might try out some week. This thread has been a lot of help in learning tho play the deck, so thanks everyone for contributing!
U Mono Best Tron
RUG Monkey Grow Delver
RUGW Cats n' Gnats
UR Wizard Tribal with Grapeshot Combo
What I have noticed is that I don't win as much without Probe, but I wouldn't say that's the deck becoming harder to pilot. It's the deck becoming less competent.
Counter-Cat
Colorless Eldrazi Stompy
I got one of these a few days ago! The Storm player made fun of Mandrills's position in the meta due to Death's Shadow... While Mandrills killed them. Just before I beat them, they were nice enough to let me know that I shouldn't join a competitive game with Curiosity in the deck. So helpful!
I don't really like engaging them, because usually they just start to attack you,and it probably gives them some amount of satisfaction. I happened to be recording though, so I discussed their salt (and probably made fun of them a bit) with the theoretical audience!
Congrats, Squelch! What's your sideboard?
Ashton, Probe's unique cost did gives us more options. Maybe it was harder due to that. But once you decided that the right line involved Probing, sequencing did get easier. Of course, we did still have to consider that they were drawing cards we hadn't seen.
Interested in RUG (Temur) Delver in Modern? Find gameplay with live commentary at https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC8UcKe8jVh1e2N4CHbd3fhg
I'm working on my SB plans, and I'm not sure if they are up to snuff here.
Also, EE against Knightfall? I don't have much experience in this matchup. My gut tells me to just go for Moon and a threat, maybe bringing in just Revelry for enchantment and artifact hate.
And Elves! They are more explosive than Merfolk. EE seems too slow here. I think I'd rather depend on Pyroclasm, Bolts, counters, and Snapcaster. And of course Huntmaster.
Interested in RUG (Temur) Delver in Modern? Find gameplay with live commentary at https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC8UcKe8jVh1e2N4CHbd3fhg
I have two elves players at my store and I never worry about the matchup. Between, burn spells, Denials, Huntmasters and my two Pyroclasm I stomp them pretty hard. A quick threat, no matter what kind is needed however. They can't block Delver and they simply can't afford to keep chumping our ground troops because they need a critical mass of elves for mana and achieving lethal.
Side note: I had watched the stream with the salty storm player and in my experience with Xmage he is a notoriously toxic player. Really enjoying your videos btw.
Thanks for the advice. And the kind words! I really appreciate it.
Interested in RUG (Temur) Delver in Modern? Find gameplay with live commentary at https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC8UcKe8jVh1e2N4CHbd3fhg
RUG Temur Deprive Delver
BUG Sultai Deprive Delver
U Mono Best Tron
RUG Monkey Grow Delver
RUGW Cats n' Gnats
UR Wizard Tribal with Grapeshot Combo
RUG Temur Deprive Delver
BUG Sultai Deprive Delver
My current list:
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Hooting Mandrills
1 Snapcaster Mage
1 Narnam Renegade
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Tarfire
1 Simic Charm
1 Dismember
2 Disrupting Shoal
1 Spell Snare
3 Stubborn Denial
3 Mana Leak
4 Serum Visions
4 Thought Scour
2 Traverse the Ulvenwald
1 Curiosity
1 Spreading Seas
1 Breeding Pool
1 Stomping Ground
1 Forest
2 Island
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Wooded Foothills
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Destructive Revelry
2 Engineered Explosives
3 Blood Moon
1 Vapor Snag
1 Snapcaster Mage
2 Pyroclasm
1 Mountain
3 Huntmaster of the Fells
I played only a few games, but it reminded me of how difficult game one is. We really have to go hard on the beatdown. They do a good job stabilizing if we don't have a quick Delver start. Post board, it is far better. Huntmaster and Blood Moon do a lot of work.
How do you all find the matchup? Are there any cards you like in the main board to hedge game 1 (this is one of the things I like about Dismember)? Are there any other sideboard cards you find boost our chances? Do you think the Huntmaster/Moon plan is enough to make the matchup reasonable?
Interested in RUG (Temur) Delver in Modern? Find gameplay with live commentary at https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC8UcKe8jVh1e2N4CHbd3fhg
RUG Temur Deprive Delver
BUG Sultai Deprive Delver
Counter-Cat
Colorless Eldrazi Stompy
I have found the eldrazi tron matchup pretty medium. Game one, we lose to chalice. If they don't resolve a chalice and we keep a decent hand, we can probably make it.
Game 2 gets much easier, as we side in artifact removal and side out our dead cards. putting artifact in the graveyard makes our goyf a 5/6, just big enough to block their smashers.
Narnam reneegade has been huge in this matchup, as our little one drop trades with any of their nasty threats. keep mana up for karn, some way to answer relic/chalice, and you with your 5/6 goyf are in the clear!
RUG Temur Deprive Delver
BUG Sultai Deprive Delver
Counter-Cat
Colorless Eldrazi Stompy
RUG Temur Deprive Delver
BUG Sultai Deprive Delver
I much prefer the Bant Eldrazi matchup. They are easier to disrupt, so it is easier to play a tempo or midrange game. Eldrazi Tron is harder because Chalice either baits our interaction or shuts it down, and they ramp in a way that is harder to interact with. Game 1 I find is almost always a race, and if we don't have early pressure, we usually don't get a win. Snapcaster and Traverse are nice for reach here. Postboard is significantly better because we can slow them down more, and play Huntmasters, but I don't know if it gets good enough to balance out the usual loss in game 1.
I think Bant and GX Tron are even at worst. I find Eldrazi Tron to be even at best.
Edit: The plus side of Eldrazi Tron shifting to 3 Dismember and 4 Chalice for its maindeck interaction is that fast starts with multiple threats (mostly Delvers) have a good shot. We just don't get these overly often because we aren't a dedicated aggro deck. Mulliganing for aggressive hands could help, but that seems awful in the dark.
Interested in RUG (Temur) Delver in Modern? Find gameplay with live commentary at https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC8UcKe8jVh1e2N4CHbd3fhg
but my b neway
Counter-Cat
Colorless Eldrazi Stompy
Stay reasonable, be mindful of your expectations and don't feed the trolls.
Doomsdayin'