Knight is decent but flyers from Spectral Procession tend to be better against more decks than a 2/2 first strikers, especially with Zoo on the rise.
I know a lot of people love Brave the Elements but I'm still not that big of a fan. Also Sisters doesn't need Blind Obedience to beat aggro decks. If you are bringing it in to hate against Twin decks, Suppression Field does pretty much the exact same thing, and it hits multiple other decks as well.
So as I promised earlier this is the list I'll be bringing with me to GP Richmond:
The one thing I may change in my list is the 2 Sundering Growths. I'm still tempted to replace one with an Ethersworn Canonist or additional Leyline of Sanctity. While both are good against Storm, I mostly want them as extra hate against Living End and Scapeshift respectively. I may just cut my Growths altogether for 1 Canonist and a second Leyline (if I can pick up another Leyline before deck registration.)
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Knight is decent but flyers from Spectral Procession tend to be better against more decks than a 2/2 first strikers, especially with Zoo on the rise.
I know a lot of people love Brave the Elements but I'm still not that big of a fan. Also Sisters doesn't need Blind Obedience to beat aggro decks. If you are bringing it in to hate against Twin decks, Suppression Field does pretty much the exact same thing, and it hits multiple other decks as well.
So as I promised earlier this is the list I'll be bringing with me to GP Richmond:
The one thing I may change in my list is the 2 Sundering Growths. I'm still tempted to replace one with an Ethersworn Canonist or additional Leyline of Sanctity. While both are good against Storm, I mostly want them as extra hate against Living End and Scapeshift respectively. I may just cut my Growths altogether for 1 Canonist and a second Leyline (if I can pick up another Leyline before deck registration.)
Looks very consistent. I absoulutely love the chalices in the SB. What decks do you plan to use them against?
We'll be waiting for your day 1 report.
The Chalice of Life are for Control matchups especially UWR. Because post board they will likely be bringing in additional removal for your creatures having an alternative angle of attack is wise. Back when I played GB Infect in Standard Contagion Clasp won me many control games so I'm applying the same principles I used back then here, having a hard to remove clock that works with your deck's original plan. Some players may bring in Wear // Tear to kill Honors post board, but the majority will focus on creature hate. Whats nice about the Chalices is that in addition to providing a very fast clock once flipped into Chalice of Death it can also get us close to having an active Serra Ascendant and grow our Pridemates at instant speed.
The greatest challenges when playing the Chalice will be getting it to resolve and not forgetting to use it each turn.
I'm still worried about the Scapeshift matchup, I don't think it will be something I can just hope to dodge unlike some other decks I have in mind.
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Also, feel free to make any suggestions about my deck. My LGS is holding Grand Pri Trials and the meta is more diverse than the US population (or so it seems)
Hi everyone, new to this thread, just recently started playing with Soul Sisters. I have a somewhat different take on the deck that focuses much more on drawing cards and has more of a mid and late game focus.
First, I'll just post my list then explain some of the choices.
First, the maindeck. Chalice of Life is unreal, it turns on at 29 life or higher, which is one less than Serra Ascendant, and it provides a source of non combat life loss. Most decks in Modern will take 5 or so damage before you do anything, and you can usually count on a quick five or so damage from your guys. Chalice is just great at creating inevitability and forcing people to try and break out of board stalls before it kills them. It's a straight upgrade to Procession in this deck. I know a lot of people will disagree with that statement, but test it before you knock it.
Only 18 lands and Gift of Estates. Thanks to Ghost Quarter and Tectonic Edge, it's pretty common for soul sisters to have fewer lands, and drawing three cards for two mana is some good. Actually it's amazing and really helps set up Emeria in those longer games. path to exile also puts you "down" on lands for this spell.
Survival Cache. It's the card I'm least sure about in this deck. It's been both great and mediocre at different times. Sometimes that extra 2-4 life can really help turn on a chalice or ascendant, sometimes it's incredibly "meh".
Heliod is a beast in longer games. His spear is just an anthem that makes people slow down their attacks whenever you've got mana open. Buying an extra turn or two, or killing a 'Goyf or Wurmcoil can really make the difference between winning and losing.
In the sideboard, Angel's Grace and Dryad Militant are for combo, Disenchant is for artifacts and enchantments, crypt is for graveyard strategies, and path and emeria are there as tuning slots.
I was kind of surprised to see all the angst above about Scapeshift. Just angel's grace once they've stacked all the triggers, quarter/edge valakut, gain back some life and win the game. They don't run discard so they can't get rid of it, and they can't counter it because of split second.
Curious to hear others' thoughts on this take on the deck. Thanks.
Siding in cards for 1 specific deck that does not dominate the meta? I have no room for that in my SB :). Other than against Scapeshift Angels's Grace seems like a pretty useless card.
On your take of Soul Sisters:
I'm not fond of the singleton path. Removal is so important in Modern. You need at least 3, but I really think 4 is the way to go. If timed well, it can vastly improve a lot of matchups.
I've tried Chalice of Life in the past. I don't know if it is better in this meta, but when I tested it, it was a useless card a lot of the times.
Don't forget that Soul Sisters isn't always about gaining as much life as possible. It's about controling the board by being able to take some damage because of that life gain. I think you'll find that a lot of the time you won't reach the 30 life (you need 30 to make it active btw. 29, tap to add one life, flip over, card is still tapped)). And what do you have then? Four slots of an three mana costing artifact that gains you 1 life a turn. It's not very good :). I did see some list running Chalice in the sideboard against certain matchups. Makes sense, because it increases the clock on those non-interactive decks.
Same goes for Survival Cache. I used to play it in my casual version of the deck. It was awesome. But competitively? There is a chance it will only gain you two life and no cards. Two times. It's painful. If you can draw the two cards, it's insane though. But it is a big if. I don't like cards that can be dead pretty much dead cards very easily. I'd rather get 3 flying critters.
The thing with Serra Ascendant is that it is a beater on itself with life gain. And by playing Honor of the Pure it becomes bigger and gains more life, which stalls the game. And if possible you may reach 30 life (on occasion very very quickly) and then it's just the scariest card ever. Ascendant is a pretty good card even if you do not have the 30 life. Chalice is horrible if you don't reach 30 life.
Also a misconception is that Soul Sisters is a fast playing aggro deck. It really is not. Occasionally you can pull off an early game win, but most of the time it's just controlling the game, controling your life total, and then dropping flying critters and Honor of the pures. Most of the time I win with Honor of the Pure and Squadron Hawks and/or Spectral Procession. Those are the strongest plays we have in the current meta.
18 land with such a huge mana curve is not a good idea. Even if you have some land fixing. 18 lands is only played by very few decks like burn. Even though Soul Sisters has many one drops, I've yet to see a winning version that runs less than 21 lands (I think I saw one that ran 20 but with a much lower mana curve than your deck). Gift of Estates is a nice card, but since you only play 3, chances are that a lot of games you won't be drawing into it. Which is a huge problem because you won't be getting four lands by turn 5 or 6 if you only play 18 lands. Consistency is very important. 18 lands + Gift of Estates doesn't really seem consistent to me with a high mana curve.
I'd cut Fiend Hunter, find room for 3 more Paths (cut chalice). Spear is Nice, but I think it should be a one off as a fourth or fifth Honor of the Pure. But I prefer 4 Honor of the Pure. That card is just the nuts even though it doesn't seem like it.
Why Heliod, God of the Sun? Ranger of Eos is much much stronger. Why is Ranger so important that you want to run 3 at least? Well, it's a tutor. It lets you fetch 2 Martyr's life if needed to gain insane amounts of life. Or 1 martyr and 1 Serra Ascendant. Or... You know. Many options. It has won me games so many times I can't count them. I've had games where I was down to 5 life late game, top decked Ranger, searched 2 martyr and I was back in the game and won eventually.
I hope I don't come off to harsh btw. It's good to see someone trying a new list :). I hope I helped a little in explaining why most Soul Sister decks play the cards they play. I'm currently playing the most standard of lists and it's just the nuts because of its simplicity. Even though the decklist is simple. Piloting it well, isn't as easy. Every game I learn something new on how to play the deck even better against certain matchups. This is the list I currently own:
Also, feel free to make any suggestions about my deck. My LGS is holding Grand Pri Trials and the meta is more diverse than the US population (or so it seems)
Does anyone have any suggestion as to which Elspeth I should use?
If you want to run one, run Knight-Errant. Without Nykthos on the board, getting 5+ mana isn't that easy. And if you do, the expensive Elspeths seem like 'win more' cards. Knight-Errant too, but I'm curious about your findings when play testing it :). It's certainly an interesting addition. I wonder if it's really necessary though.
Knight-Errant seems like a sort of a good "over the top" pump for Pridemates if you can't get your Ascendants online. There also doesn't seem to be a drawback other than having to tap out on turn four (provided you've hit all four land drops) since its a plus one.
So I've had a question for this deck for a long time. Why is their such a hard split between this deck and Martyr/Proc, to the point where I see almost no decklists here(if any) that play Proc? Why does nobody like proc? It's a 3-for-1, Doesn't lose any mana efficiency, and there's almost always targets to find. Why does nobody run it? And I know the knee-jerk answer is going to be "there's no room" but decklists are pretty varied with a lot of flex space, there's a bit of space to work with on lists.
(On a personal note, I run both soul sisters, martyr, and proc in my deck and it always feels like a massive win when i draw the proc, and a massive bomb especially after a sweep).
Didn't have much luck at the local tournament with my Soul Sisters deck. I'm a pretty new player so I didn't really play it very efficiently but this time I didn't even have fun with it.
First match Melira Pod
Game one he gets the infinite combo very fast.
Game two I get my sideboard Grafdigger's Cage out and win.
Game three ended up going to time because it was too slow.
He immediately started *****ing that I played too slow and that I ruined his chances for the tournament... derp.
Second match UWR Control
1-1-1 went to time again, very slow match up, I could gain a ton of life and UWR has so few threats,
but the judge noticed me from first time and gave me a warning for playing too slow... derp.
Third match UWR Control
0-2 really stressed out trying to play faster. accidentally drew 8 cards at the start of the second game.
Noticed myself and asked my opponent if I could redraw but he called the judge and I got another warning
+ mulligan to 6... derp.
In the end there was too much removal and counterspells to get through.
Fourth match UWR Control
1-1 Won the second game on the back of Grafdigger's Cage, no value from his Snapcasters and Think Twice's.
The second game ended on the last of the extra turns when time is up, pretty lucky, but still out of time.
Fifth match UWR Control
dropped
I got sick of playing against the same deck over and over, especially because it's such a grind.
Seems like these guys can only play flavor of the month decks that won a PT. Not my kind of fun.
I like playing control myself, maybe that why I hated being on the other side of it so much but
this tournament was 10 guys with UWR, 7 with Storm, 1 Faeries, 1 TRON and 1 SS.
I'm not sure Soul Sisters can win vs this meta. The POD guy said my UWR matchup should be favorable, but I really doubt that.
Aside from all the counterspells, Electrolyze, Anger of the Gods, Supreme Verdict, Ajani Vengeant and Gideon Jura were really problematic.
I could never really gain much life or get a threat online because the Sisters always died.
I think I would've liked my chances vs Storm better.
If you want to run one, run Knight-Errant. Without Nykthos on the board, getting 5+ mana isn't that easy. And if you do, the expensive Elspeths seem like 'win more' cards. Knight-Errant too, but I'm curious about your findings when play testing it :). It's certainly an interesting addition. I wonder if it's really necessary though.
I have play tested in my Decked Builder App (http://www.deckedbuilder.com/) and Nykthos does work with any of the higher cost Elspeths. I usually find my self with about 5 or so mana for casting, just enough to play Tirel or Sun's Champion if I have an open Plains to make it to six. The problem is determining the number of lands to play 21 to 22 seems to be the sweet spot, 23 if you want Sun's Champion to come out. Personally I like Elspeth, Knight-Errant's ultimate ability; however, how often in modern does that kick off??
I like Tirel or Sun, because you can quickly overrun the board popping out 3 tokens at a time. Sun's casting cost is really high though and can be set back with a simple removal spell while you try to cast her via Nykthos (ditto goes for any other card you try to cast). As long as you can cast without worrying about removal, you should be good to go.
So I've had a question for this deck for a long time. Why is their such a hard split between this deck and Martyr/Proc, to the point where I see almost no decklists here(if any) that play Proc? Why does nobody like proc? It's a 3-for-1, Doesn't lose any mana efficiency, and there's almost always targets to find. Why does nobody run it? And I know the knee-jerk answer is going to be "there's no room" but decklists are pretty varied with a lot of flex space, there's a bit of space to work with on lists.
(On a personal note, I run both soul sisters, martyr, and proc in my deck and it always feels like a massive win when i draw the proc, and a massive bomb especially after a sweep).
It's a good question. I think I might have tested it at one point. Although the argument seems pretty lame, I really wouldn't know what to cut. I like having 8 sisters main board, I like having 4 martyrs, and 4 paths. The deck runs very smoothly with it imho in addition to being a resilient deck already because of the Rangers and Hawks. I tried running 6 sisters and two aven mindcensors main board. Didn't like it. And I think I felt the same about Proc during testing. It may also have something to do with the fact that they are both three drops. So the only card that could reasonably be cut to keep the deck run smoothly, would be Spectral Procession. And since it's one of the most important cards in the deck, I don't think that's a good idea. Cutting Rangers is no option either. So it would replace one of the two or one drops. Making the deck a little bit clunkier. And that would mean it needs 22 land in stead of 21, so then we need another cut ;). Also, against certain matchups (combo mostly) it's pretty mutch a dead draw. Unless you have a Martyr or two. (My list can be found on this same page by the way)
It all comes down to personal preference. I think it could work but the built should have a bit more focus on the Proclamation Rebirths. Maybe something with Children of Korlis and Selfless Cathar (in stead of honor of the pures). Can revive them and use them multiple times to stall the game and gain life in the process with the sisters.
Didn't have much luck at the local tournament with my Soul Sisters deck. I'm a pretty new player so I didn't really play it very efficiently but this time I didn't even have fun with it.
First match Melira Pod
Game one he gets the infinite combo very fast.
Game two I get my sideboard Grafdigger's Cage out and win.
Game three ended up going to time because it was too slow.
He immediately started *****ing that I played too slow and that I ruined his chances for the tournament... derp.
Second match UWR Control
1-1-1 went to time again, very slow match up, I could gain a ton of life and UWR has so few threats,
but the judge noticed me from first time and gave me a warning for playing too slow... derp.
Third match UWR Control
0-2 really stressed out trying to play faster. accidentally drew 8 cards at the start of the second game.
Noticed myself and asked my opponent if I could redraw but he called the judge and I got another warning
+ mulligan to 6... derp.
In the end there was too much removal and counterspells to get through.
Fourth match UWR Control
1-1 Won the second game on the back of Grafdigger's Cage, no value from his Snapcasters and Think Twice's.
The second game ended on the last of the extra turns when time is up, pretty lucky, but still out of time.
Fifth match UWR Control
dropped
I got sick of playing against the same deck over and over, especially because it's such a grind.
Seems like these guys can only play flavor of the month decks that won a PT. Not my kind of fun.
I like playing control myself, maybe that why I hated being on the other side of it so much but
this tournament was 10 guys with UWR, 7 with Storm, 1 Faeries, 1 TRON and 1 SS.
I'm not sure Soul Sisters can win vs this meta. The POD guy said my UWR matchup should be favorable, but I really doubt that.
Aside from all the counterspells, Electrolyze, Anger of the Gods, Supreme Verdict, Ajani Vengeant and Gideon Jura were really problematic.
I could never really gain much life or get a threat online because the Sisters always died.
I think I would've liked my chances vs Storm better.
UWR is the new deck to beat.
Hmm. If it's a tough matchup you should actually want to play against it. You'll become a better pilot if you do. There are so many choices and interactions during such matchups that could lead to either a victory or a loss. So it's worth to keep trying to beat it. It is possible. I wouldn't say it is a favorable matchup. I wouldn't say it's an unfavorable matchup either. Once you know when and how to bait their counterspells and removal, just so you can go Spectral procession into Honor of Pure, the frustration melts away ;). It is possible to control the control deck without them really knowing it until it's too late.
The important thing is to spam your cheap critters early hoping to force some removal and counterspells off of their hands. Then going on to do that for a few turns, until they tap out to cast Cryptic Command to counter something, or to tap the critters that did come through to prevent an attack. That's the moment you cast a Ranger, or a Squadron Hawk. Full hand again and they are running out of counterspells by know probably. At the same time, don't overextend (when you know they run Anger of the Gods). Getting through even 1 soul sister and 1 ajani, can be enough for them to cast one.
There are much more of these kind of little interactions that are important. You know they run remand. So keeping that in mind, how useful is it for them to counter a one drop with Remand when you have three mana? Remand gets them through their deck faster, so what I do is, I cast a one drop. And another one. And then leave one mana open (also suggesting I might have a Path in my hand).
Then, when I don't mind them drawing a card off of Remand (because their hand is running empty for instance), I bate it out of their hand by casting a dangerous 2 drop for instance. If I have 4 mana, I'll just cast it again. If it's Spectral Procession (great card to bate Remands), I'll drop an extra sister or Soul Ascendant on the board.
Hope this helps a bit :). One thing to remember is that Soul Sisters is not a very simple deck to Pilot against a lot of decks. But once you really get the hang of it, you'll see your chances of winning tough matchups grow.
Oh one last thing. Control is the reason I play Tectonic Edge instead of Ghostly Quarters. Killing their Celestial Colonade with it is pure gold. Certainly when it is one of two mana they left open. It means you're free to cast anything you want. I always hold it in my hand as long as possible until they have 4 land or when I know it means they can't counter me after that.
So I've had a question for this deck for a long time. Why is their such a hard split between this deck and Martyr/Proc, to the point where I see almost no decklists here(if any) that play Proc? Why does nobody like proc? It's a 3-for-1, Doesn't lose any mana efficiency, and there's almost always targets to find. Why does nobody run it? And I know the knee-jerk answer is going to be "there's no room" but decklists are pretty varied with a lot of flex space, there's a bit of space to work with on lists.
(On a personal note, I run both soul sisters, martyr, and proc in my deck and it always feels like a massive win when i draw the proc, and a massive bomb especially after a sweep).
It's a good question. I think I might have tested it at one point. Although the argument seems pretty lame, I really wouldn't know what to cut. I like having 8 sisters main board, I like having 4 martyrs, and 4 paths. The deck runs very smoothly with it imho in addition to being a resilient deck already because of the Rangers and Hawks. I tried running 6 sisters and two aven mindcensors main board. Didn't like it. And I think I felt the same about Proc during testing. It may also have something to do with the fact that they are both three drops. So the only card that could reasonably be cut to keep the deck run smoothly, would be Spectral Procession. And since it's one of the most important cards in the deck, I don't think that's a good idea. Cutting Rangers is no option either. So it would replace one of the two or one drops. Making the deck a little bit clunkier. And that would mean it needs 22 land in stead of 21, so then we need another cut ;). Also, against certain matchups (combo mostly) it's pretty mutch a dead draw. Unless you have a Martyr or two. (My list can be found on this same page by the way)
It all comes down to personal preference. I think it could work but the built should have a bit more focus on the Proclamation Rebirths. Maybe something with Children of Korlis and Selfless Cathar (in stead of honor of the pures). Can revive them and use them multiple times to stall the game and gain life in the process with the sisters.
I gotta ask though, what is more useful in this deck? Lantern Kami, or Soul Warden? Because from my experience, 9 times out of 10, that is the difference between Proc of Rebirth and Spectral Procession. Procession gives you 3 generic fliers(which the flying may or may not matter), where Rebirth is usually 3 soul sisters(or sometimes ascendants), which is usually more optimal. I can't think of any time where I've ever wanted to play Rebirth and not had at least 3 targets for it.
I gotta ask though, what is more useful in this deck? Lantern Kami, or Soul Warden? Because from my experience, 9 times out of 10, that is the difference between Proc of Rebirth and Spectral Procession. Procession gives you 3 generic fliers(which the flying may or may not matter), where Rebirth is usually 3 soul sisters(or sometimes ascendants), which is usually more optimal. I can't think of any time where I've ever wanted to play Rebirth and not had at least 3 targets for it.
You say it yourself. Usually. Spectral Procession is useful 10 out of 10 times. I can think of many many scenario's where I'd rather have 3 instant flyers gaining 3, 6 or sometimes 9 live's and being able to fly over pretty much any aggro POD or other deck.
I remember having Proc against Zoo with him having Tarmo and a couple of other creatures on the board. This is a scenario that happens a lot against a lot of aggro decks. I'm pretty sure anybody rather would have 3 flyers (that will become 2/2 most of the time) then 3 non flyers out of the grave only stalling things a little more because attacking is no option. While I am beating face with 6 damage a turn ;).
Read through the pages and pages of posts in this topic and you'll find many people saying the deck actually wins mostly with Specteals and Squadron Hawks pumped with Honor of the pure. It's simple, but it is really that good yes. :). I agree with them. I win most of the games on the back of those cards. While gaining life to be able to get damage. I simply race other aggro decks mid to late game sometimes. Serra Ascendant is just 1 win con in a deck that has many and I certainly don't get to use it's 6/6 awesomeness every single game. By going for Proc instead of Spectral, you're leaning more towards that single card. Sisters on themselves do nothing against a lot of decks until you get to drop a second Honor of the Pure. Same goes for Ajani. I had a lot of games where it acted like an unpassable wall while I kept beating face with 3 2/2 flyers. Spectral just has synergy with the deck in an awesome way.
Having 60 life is useless if you can't deal damage to back the amount of life up.
But like I said. Proc is an option, but I think you have to get more use out of it by playing more controlling 1 power creatures next to the sisters and martyrs. Reviving those means buying even more time, meaning slowly grinding and winning the game. I could see a deck like that work pretty well actually :).
Well, I guess that answers my questions. There is no real reasoning against the card. I've been running it(alongside Spectral), and its been working for me, so I'll keep it around.
I was just curious why when there's 3cc flex slots that go to Chalice, Spear, Cache, FiendHunter...there is basically zero mention of Proc even as an option. It allows for so much consistency and recovery, and seems to always get ignored with the kneejerk response of "Oh, we don't play that, it's a martyr/proc thing" without much hard and fast justification.
Indeed there isn't :). It all comes down to personal preference and play style. If it works for you, great :). I hadn't noticed it wasn't mentioned. I agree with you that it should.
You made me choose between Rebirth and Procession though. In that case I'd always choose Procession. I kind of have to choose between the two because I don't want any more 3cc cards in my build.
Proclamation of Rebirth is not the best card in this deck, not for preference reasons, but because of how the meta is.
Compared to Spectral Procession: One of the best opening is Sister->Pridemate->Procession. Proc isn't an opening card though, you need a few turns before you can activate it. What puts creatures in your graveyard early on? Burn(Bolt, Helix, Electrolyze), Counterspells(Only Spell Snareand Mana Leak, Cryptic later), Blocking and Discard. Lets go over these one by one:
Burn: only for red decks
Counters: Control (combo plays remand)
Blocking: Something you should almost never have to do unless you plan on activating Ascendant or Chalice.
Discard: Weak against us.
Basically, unless you are playing against UR control, Proc is always a late game card. It should stay in the sideboard unless your meta always gets wiped by something not named Anger of the Gods. Against combo it's bad and against aggro we already do great with procession. As someone said earlier, triple Lantern Kami is pretty much always what you need midgame, not more life.
Edit: Also, Immortal Servitude is better for late-game purposes, unless your opponent run tons of wipes.
I know a lot of people love Brave the Elements but I'm still not that big of a fan. Also Sisters doesn't need Blind Obedience to beat aggro decks. If you are bringing it in to hate against Twin decks, Suppression Field does pretty much the exact same thing, and it hits multiple other decks as well.
So as I promised earlier this is the list I'll be bringing with me to GP Richmond:
4x Ajani's Pridemate
2x Aven Mindcensor
3x Martyr of Sands
3x Ranger of Eos
4x Serra Ascendant
4x Squadron Hawk
3x Soul's Attendant
3x Soul Warden
4x Path to Exile
4x Spectral Procession
Artifacts/Enchantments 5
4x Honor of the Pure
1x Spear of Heliod
Lands 21
1x Cavern of Souls
3x Ghost Quarter
15x Plains
2x Windbrisk Heights
2x Auriok Champion
2x Chalice of Life
2x Kataki, War's Wage
1x Leyline of Sanctity
2x Rest in Peace
2x Stony Silence
2x Sundering Growth
2x Suppression Field
The one thing I may change in my list is the 2 Sundering Growths. I'm still tempted to replace one with an Ethersworn Canonist or additional Leyline of Sanctity. While both are good against Storm, I mostly want them as extra hate against Living End and Scapeshift respectively. I may just cut my Growths altogether for 1 Canonist and a second Leyline (if I can pick up another Leyline before deck registration.)
-Anonymous
Looks very consistent. I absoulutely love the chalices in the SB. What decks do you plan to use them against?
We'll be waiting for your day 1 report.
Best of luck
The greatest challenges when playing the Chalice will be getting it to resolve and not forgetting to use it each turn.
I'm still worried about the Scapeshift matchup, I don't think it will be something I can just hope to dodge unlike some other decks I have in mind.
-Anonymous
I am trying to figure out which Elspeth I should use in my SS deck.
Elspeth Tirel
Elspeth, Knight-Errant
Elspeth, Sun's Champion
3 Martyr of Sands
4 Serra Ascendant
4 Soul Warden
4 Ajani's Pridemate
3 Auriok Champion
4 Squadron Hawk
3 Ranger of Eos
Spells:13
4 Path to Exile
4 Honor of the Pure
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
4 Spectral Procession
2 Ghost Quarter
1 Mistveil Plains
2 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
15 Plains
2 Windbrisk Heights
3 Brave the Elements
2 Rest in Peace
3 Stony Silence
2 Sundering Growth
2 Suppression Field
2 Immortal Servitude
1 Hero of Bladehold
Also, feel free to make any suggestions about my deck. My LGS is holding Grand Pri Trials and the meta is more diverse than the US population (or so it seems)
I'm playing SS for the first time at a local tournament this saturday. I really hate Splinter Twin. I hope it works out!
First, I'll just post my list then explain some of the choices.
4x Soul Warden
3x Soul's Attendant
3x Serra Ascendant
4x Martyr of Sands
4x Squadron Hawk
4x Ajani's Pridemate
2x Fiend Hunter
1x Ranger of Eos
Sorceries
3x Gift of Estates
3x Survival Cache
1x Path to Exile
Artifacts
2x Spear of Heliod
4x Chalice of Life
Enchantments
3x Honor of the Pure
1x Heliod, God of the Sun
Lands
1x Emeria, the Sky Ruin
1x Tectonic Edge
4x Ghost Quarter
12x Plains
1x Emeria, the Sky Ruin
1x Path to Exile
4x Dryad Militant
3x Tormod's Crypt
3x Disenchant
3x Angel's Grace
First, the maindeck. Chalice of Life is unreal, it turns on at 29 life or higher, which is one less than Serra Ascendant, and it provides a source of non combat life loss. Most decks in Modern will take 5 or so damage before you do anything, and you can usually count on a quick five or so damage from your guys. Chalice is just great at creating inevitability and forcing people to try and break out of board stalls before it kills them. It's a straight upgrade to Procession in this deck. I know a lot of people will disagree with that statement, but test it before you knock it.
Only 18 lands and Gift of Estates. Thanks to Ghost Quarter and Tectonic Edge, it's pretty common for soul sisters to have fewer lands, and drawing three cards for two mana is some good. Actually it's amazing and really helps set up Emeria in those longer games. path to exile also puts you "down" on lands for this spell.
Survival Cache. It's the card I'm least sure about in this deck. It's been both great and mediocre at different times. Sometimes that extra 2-4 life can really help turn on a chalice or ascendant, sometimes it's incredibly "meh".
Heliod is a beast in longer games. His spear is just an anthem that makes people slow down their attacks whenever you've got mana open. Buying an extra turn or two, or killing a 'Goyf or Wurmcoil can really make the difference between winning and losing.
In the sideboard, Angel's Grace and Dryad Militant are for combo, Disenchant is for artifacts and enchantments, crypt is for graveyard strategies, and path and emeria are there as tuning slots.
I was kind of surprised to see all the angst above about Scapeshift. Just angel's grace once they've stacked all the triggers, quarter/edge valakut, gain back some life and win the game. They don't run discard so they can't get rid of it, and they can't counter it because of split second.
Curious to hear others' thoughts on this take on the deck. Thanks.
Siding in cards for 1 specific deck that does not dominate the meta? I have no room for that in my SB :). Other than against Scapeshift Angels's Grace seems like a pretty useless card.
On your take of Soul Sisters:
I'm not fond of the singleton path. Removal is so important in Modern. You need at least 3, but I really think 4 is the way to go. If timed well, it can vastly improve a lot of matchups.
I've tried Chalice of Life in the past. I don't know if it is better in this meta, but when I tested it, it was a useless card a lot of the times.
Don't forget that Soul Sisters isn't always about gaining as much life as possible. It's about controling the board by being able to take some damage because of that life gain. I think you'll find that a lot of the time you won't reach the 30 life (you need 30 to make it active btw. 29, tap to add one life, flip over, card is still tapped)). And what do you have then? Four slots of an three mana costing artifact that gains you 1 life a turn. It's not very good :). I did see some list running Chalice in the sideboard against certain matchups. Makes sense, because it increases the clock on those non-interactive decks.
Same goes for Survival Cache. I used to play it in my casual version of the deck. It was awesome. But competitively? There is a chance it will only gain you two life and no cards. Two times. It's painful. If you can draw the two cards, it's insane though. But it is a big if. I don't like cards that can be dead pretty much dead cards very easily. I'd rather get 3 flying critters.
The thing with Serra Ascendant is that it is a beater on itself with life gain. And by playing Honor of the Pure it becomes bigger and gains more life, which stalls the game. And if possible you may reach 30 life (on occasion very very quickly) and then it's just the scariest card ever. Ascendant is a pretty good card even if you do not have the 30 life. Chalice is horrible if you don't reach 30 life.
Also a misconception is that Soul Sisters is a fast playing aggro deck. It really is not. Occasionally you can pull off an early game win, but most of the time it's just controlling the game, controling your life total, and then dropping flying critters and Honor of the pures. Most of the time I win with Honor of the Pure and Squadron Hawks and/or Spectral Procession. Those are the strongest plays we have in the current meta.
18 land with such a huge mana curve is not a good idea. Even if you have some land fixing. 18 lands is only played by very few decks like burn. Even though Soul Sisters has many one drops, I've yet to see a winning version that runs less than 21 lands (I think I saw one that ran 20 but with a much lower mana curve than your deck). Gift of Estates is a nice card, but since you only play 3, chances are that a lot of games you won't be drawing into it. Which is a huge problem because you won't be getting four lands by turn 5 or 6 if you only play 18 lands. Consistency is very important. 18 lands + Gift of Estates doesn't really seem consistent to me with a high mana curve.
I'd cut Fiend Hunter, find room for 3 more Paths (cut chalice). Spear is Nice, but I think it should be a one off as a fourth or fifth Honor of the Pure. But I prefer 4 Honor of the Pure. That card is just the nuts even though it doesn't seem like it.
Why Heliod, God of the Sun? Ranger of Eos is much much stronger. Why is Ranger so important that you want to run 3 at least? Well, it's a tutor. It lets you fetch 2 Martyr's life if needed to gain insane amounts of life. Or 1 martyr and 1 Serra Ascendant. Or... You know. Many options. It has won me games so many times I can't count them. I've had games where I was down to 5 life late game, top decked Ranger, searched 2 martyr and I was back in the game and won eventually.
I hope I don't come off to harsh btw. It's good to see someone trying a new list :). I hope I helped a little in explaining why most Soul Sister decks play the cards they play. I'm currently playing the most standard of lists and it's just the nuts because of its simplicity. Even though the decklist is simple. Piloting it well, isn't as easy. Every game I learn something new on how to play the deck even better against certain matchups. This is the list I currently own:
4 Serra Ascendant
4 Soul's Attendant
4 Soul Warden
4 Path to Exile
4 Honor of the Pure
4 Spectral Procession
3 Ranger of Eos
4 Ajani's Pridemate
3 Windbrisk Heights
15 Plains
4 Squadron Hawk
3 Tectonic Edge
2 Aven Mindcensor
2 Oblivion Ring
3 Rest in Peace
3 Stony Silence
3 Ghostly Prison
2 Ethersworn Canonist
Does anyone have any suggestion as to which Elspeth I should use?
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(On a personal note, I run both soul sisters, martyr, and proc in my deck and it always feels like a massive win when i draw the proc, and a massive bomb especially after a sweep).
First match Melira Pod
Game one he gets the infinite combo very fast.
Game two I get my sideboard Grafdigger's Cage out and win.
Game three ended up going to time because it was too slow.
He immediately started *****ing that I played too slow and that I ruined his chances for the tournament... derp.
Second match UWR Control
1-1-1 went to time again, very slow match up, I could gain a ton of life and UWR has so few threats,
but the judge noticed me from first time and gave me a warning for playing too slow... derp.
Third match UWR Control
0-2 really stressed out trying to play faster. accidentally drew 8 cards at the start of the second game.
Noticed myself and asked my opponent if I could redraw but he called the judge and I got another warning
+ mulligan to 6... derp.
In the end there was too much removal and counterspells to get through.
Fourth match UWR Control
1-1 Won the second game on the back of Grafdigger's Cage, no value from his Snapcasters and Think Twice's.
The second game ended on the last of the extra turns when time is up, pretty lucky, but still out of time.
Fifth match UWR Control
dropped
I got sick of playing against the same deck over and over, especially because it's such a grind.
Seems like these guys can only play flavor of the month decks that won a PT. Not my kind of fun.
I like playing control myself, maybe that why I hated being on the other side of it so much but
this tournament was 10 guys with UWR, 7 with Storm, 1 Faeries, 1 TRON and 1 SS.
I'm not sure Soul Sisters can win vs this meta. The POD guy said my UWR matchup should be favorable, but I really doubt that.
Aside from all the counterspells, Electrolyze, Anger of the Gods, Supreme Verdict, Ajani Vengeant and Gideon Jura were really problematic.
I could never really gain much life or get a threat online because the Sisters always died.
I think I would've liked my chances vs Storm better.
UWR is the new deck to beat.
I have play tested in my Decked Builder App (http://www.deckedbuilder.com/) and Nykthos does work with any of the higher cost Elspeths. I usually find my self with about 5 or so mana for casting, just enough to play Tirel or Sun's Champion if I have an open Plains to make it to six. The problem is determining the number of lands to play 21 to 22 seems to be the sweet spot, 23 if you want Sun's Champion to come out. Personally I like Elspeth, Knight-Errant's ultimate ability; however, how often in modern does that kick off??
I like Tirel or Sun, because you can quickly overrun the board popping out 3 tokens at a time. Sun's casting cost is really high though and can be set back with a simple removal spell while you try to cast her via Nykthos (ditto goes for any other card you try to cast). As long as you can cast without worrying about removal, you should be good to go.
It's a good question. I think I might have tested it at one point. Although the argument seems pretty lame, I really wouldn't know what to cut. I like having 8 sisters main board, I like having 4 martyrs, and 4 paths. The deck runs very smoothly with it imho in addition to being a resilient deck already because of the Rangers and Hawks. I tried running 6 sisters and two aven mindcensors main board. Didn't like it. And I think I felt the same about Proc during testing. It may also have something to do with the fact that they are both three drops. So the only card that could reasonably be cut to keep the deck run smoothly, would be Spectral Procession. And since it's one of the most important cards in the deck, I don't think that's a good idea. Cutting Rangers is no option either. So it would replace one of the two or one drops. Making the deck a little bit clunkier. And that would mean it needs 22 land in stead of 21, so then we need another cut ;). Also, against certain matchups (combo mostly) it's pretty mutch a dead draw. Unless you have a Martyr or two. (My list can be found on this same page by the way)
It all comes down to personal preference. I think it could work but the built should have a bit more focus on the Proclamation Rebirths. Maybe something with Children of Korlis and Selfless Cathar (in stead of honor of the pures). Can revive them and use them multiple times to stall the game and gain life in the process with the sisters.
Hmm. If it's a tough matchup you should actually want to play against it. You'll become a better pilot if you do. There are so many choices and interactions during such matchups that could lead to either a victory or a loss. So it's worth to keep trying to beat it. It is possible. I wouldn't say it is a favorable matchup. I wouldn't say it's an unfavorable matchup either. Once you know when and how to bait their counterspells and removal, just so you can go Spectral procession into Honor of Pure, the frustration melts away ;). It is possible to control the control deck without them really knowing it until it's too late.
The important thing is to spam your cheap critters early hoping to force some removal and counterspells off of their hands. Then going on to do that for a few turns, until they tap out to cast Cryptic Command to counter something, or to tap the critters that did come through to prevent an attack. That's the moment you cast a Ranger, or a Squadron Hawk. Full hand again and they are running out of counterspells by know probably. At the same time, don't overextend (when you know they run Anger of the Gods). Getting through even 1 soul sister and 1 ajani, can be enough for them to cast one.
There are much more of these kind of little interactions that are important. You know they run remand. So keeping that in mind, how useful is it for them to counter a one drop with Remand when you have three mana? Remand gets them through their deck faster, so what I do is, I cast a one drop. And another one. And then leave one mana open (also suggesting I might have a Path in my hand).
Then, when I don't mind them drawing a card off of Remand (because their hand is running empty for instance), I bate it out of their hand by casting a dangerous 2 drop for instance. If I have 4 mana, I'll just cast it again. If it's Spectral Procession (great card to bate Remands), I'll drop an extra sister or Soul Ascendant on the board.
Hope this helps a bit :). One thing to remember is that Soul Sisters is not a very simple deck to Pilot against a lot of decks. But once you really get the hang of it, you'll see your chances of winning tough matchups grow.
Oh one last thing. Control is the reason I play Tectonic Edge instead of Ghostly Quarters. Killing their Celestial Colonade with it is pure gold. Certainly when it is one of two mana they left open. It means you're free to cast anything you want. I always hold it in my hand as long as possible until they have 4 land or when I know it means they can't counter me after that.
I gotta ask though, what is more useful in this deck? Lantern Kami, or Soul Warden? Because from my experience, 9 times out of 10, that is the difference between Proc of Rebirth and Spectral Procession. Procession gives you 3 generic fliers(which the flying may or may not matter), where Rebirth is usually 3 soul sisters(or sometimes ascendants), which is usually more optimal. I can't think of any time where I've ever wanted to play Rebirth and not had at least 3 targets for it.
You say it yourself. Usually. Spectral Procession is useful 10 out of 10 times. I can think of many many scenario's where I'd rather have 3 instant flyers gaining 3, 6 or sometimes 9 live's and being able to fly over pretty much any aggro POD or other deck.
I remember having Proc against Zoo with him having Tarmo and a couple of other creatures on the board. This is a scenario that happens a lot against a lot of aggro decks. I'm pretty sure anybody rather would have 3 flyers (that will become 2/2 most of the time) then 3 non flyers out of the grave only stalling things a little more because attacking is no option. While I am beating face with 6 damage a turn ;).
Read through the pages and pages of posts in this topic and you'll find many people saying the deck actually wins mostly with Specteals and Squadron Hawks pumped with Honor of the pure. It's simple, but it is really that good yes. :). I agree with them. I win most of the games on the back of those cards. While gaining life to be able to get damage. I simply race other aggro decks mid to late game sometimes. Serra Ascendant is just 1 win con in a deck that has many and I certainly don't get to use it's 6/6 awesomeness every single game. By going for Proc instead of Spectral, you're leaning more towards that single card. Sisters on themselves do nothing against a lot of decks until you get to drop a second Honor of the Pure. Same goes for Ajani. I had a lot of games where it acted like an unpassable wall while I kept beating face with 3 2/2 flyers. Spectral just has synergy with the deck in an awesome way.
Having 60 life is useless if you can't deal damage to back the amount of life up.
But like I said. Proc is an option, but I think you have to get more use out of it by playing more controlling 1 power creatures next to the sisters and martyrs. Reviving those means buying even more time, meaning slowly grinding and winning the game. I could see a deck like that work pretty well actually :).
I was just curious why when there's 3cc flex slots that go to Chalice, Spear, Cache, FiendHunter...there is basically zero mention of Proc even as an option. It allows for so much consistency and recovery, and seems to always get ignored with the kneejerk response of "Oh, we don't play that, it's a martyr/proc thing" without much hard and fast justification.
You made me choose between Rebirth and Procession though. In that case I'd always choose Procession. I kind of have to choose between the two because I don't want any more 3cc cards in my build.
Compared to Spectral Procession: One of the best opening is Sister->Pridemate->Procession. Proc isn't an opening card though, you need a few turns before you can activate it. What puts creatures in your graveyard early on? Burn(Bolt, Helix, Electrolyze), Counterspells(Only Spell Snareand Mana Leak, Cryptic later), Blocking and Discard. Lets go over these one by one:
Burn: only for red decks
Counters: Control (combo plays remand)
Blocking: Something you should almost never have to do unless you plan on activating Ascendant or Chalice.
Discard: Weak against us.
Basically, unless you are playing against UR control, Proc is always a late game card. It should stay in the sideboard unless your meta always gets wiped by something not named Anger of the Gods. Against combo it's bad and against aggro we already do great with procession. As someone said earlier, triple Lantern Kami is pretty much always what you need midgame, not more life.
Edit: Also, Immortal Servitude is better for late-game purposes, unless your opponent run tons of wipes.