Mnelson... I did win money, actually, with my cookie cutter brew. 60 bucks, and lost to Affinity in a match I should have won. Sure, it's not a lot of money, but I did win it. Have also won store cred several times, like most folks on here.
We've all tried different janky stuff, as Jex has said. You can't just toss things into a deck because they are good cards. I think Jex said in an earlier post that a deck like Jund is practically a greatest hits of MTG cards in BRG... Soul Sisters cannot do that.
We have brewed. I have tried Bitterblossom, Dark Confidant, Kitchen Finks, Secure the Wastes (not a janky card in Sisters at all)... I did try CoCo. It was not worth it. I cut Ranger for it and it was worse. We have tried all sorts of things... go through the Primer. We have tried all sorts of crazy things in this deck, and we are at the point we are now because of the things we have tried.
I am not being snarky at all to you. Sorry if my tones comes off that way, but we have been brewing and trying all sorts of different things. Some winning lists (a few posts back) have Thalia and some other stuff that we have said NO to, and those decks won money. Someone recently had WORSHIP in their main build and did well at an FNM... not saying FNM is the answer, but that's how we can playtest until the big shows. There has been some innovation in the deck, but we are being careful. One card makes a huge difference. Taking away a fourth Auriok Champion or going down to three Honor of the Pure changes things... any little change modifies the deck heavily.
I mean, I've won more than enough with the deck to pay for itself a few times over with the mono-w build and have never done less than .500 when I've taken it to a PPTQ or similar major tournament. I don't think you're right that it's garbage, I think it just requires the right environment to be successful. No deck that is 50 percent of better against half of the decks in the top tier is ever going to be totally bad and as long as Burn is arguably the best deck in the format, we're in good shape. If Amulet gets banned like everyone expects, we're back in business as a great meta deck.
We have to remember that getting comfortable with how the deck plays in our current build is way more important that making drastic change after drastic change to try to "optimize it" when we haven't given one build enough playtesting to find out why it's not working. I've had lots of days where I took Sisters to a tournament and just hit a string of bad matchups or bad luck and went 1-4 or 2-3 and wanted to start over. That's not helpful to you or to the deck. Give your build honest testing for a few weeks, find out where the problems really are, find out what you need to fix it.
CoCo is an example of this process. Everyone has said card advantage is one of the reasons we don't win and CoCo is a card advantage machine that is worth exploring. In my, and the testing of others, it seems like it's not generating enough value in the traditional build. So now we have to decide whether we tinker with the main core to to maximize CoCo value or cut CoCo and look for a card advantage machine that works with the core of the deck. You could potentially get some value out of Finks with CoCo. I don't know why Rogue Deck Builder didn't include it over Scooze or Pridemage.
I think the Green splash is much more exciting for Choke out of the board and Dromoka's Command than for CoCo, though. Those cards can do some serious work.
I made a GW list with Anafenza and Collected Company, and wanted to ask your opinions. Deck seems powerful so far. And it seems you were talking about Collected Company too =)
Anafenza is strong here, and Collected Company makes up for missing token engines. I don't know if this is as good as your usual Soul Sisters deck, but I am having fun.
Yeah, Caratid doesn't seem like it's doing much for you here. Wall of Omens is easier to cast and much better at doing what it does if you need card draw, and Eternal Witnessing it back is strong.
I agree that Wall of Omens is better on paper but actually Carven Caryatid's 2 power comes in handy more than you would think. As we have our sisters, Anafenza, Ajani's Pridemate and Serra Ascendant; Carven Caryatid doesn't really take the aggro from the removals but stops more than half of the creatures played.
I'd started with Wall of Omens, but I am very happy with Carven Caryatid for now. It seems very dismissable, but it has a serious presence on board.
I can see the value in outright killing Bob, Snapcaster, Guide and other stuff, but I think I want it to die so I can E-Witness it back and get more draws and life triggers. Is that not what you're trying?
That was the plan when I started playing with Wall of Omens, but in the end, nine times out of ten, I used Eternal Witness on Path to Exile and Collected Company. If not, on Anafenza or Spellskite; but almost never on the Wall of Omens. After a while, I put Carven Caryatids in. They feel better and ended up being more helpful.
Hmm, makes sense. In that case, I think you've made the right call. Would you consider a Mentor of the Meek in that spot since everything you run triggers it? I really want that card to be good and it seems like it might work better in your list than in others.
there is a dude at one of my lgs, that runs stock list and tops alot. the meta is 3x twin, 3x burn and the rest some type of aggro deck. so in a aggro heavy meta I think the sisters can shine, any build. i have a somewhat standard sisters list. 2x ranger, no hawks, 4x lingering with 3x Godless for flash back. I dont play it though. I let a lady use it. the dude that runs the stock list told me last week, he has played for 2 years and has a small zoo variant built he is gonna start playing. once he does, I am sure my sisters deck will pick up on the win. my list is here.
Hmm, makes sense. In that case, I think you've made the right call. Would you consider a Mentor of the Meek in that spot since everything you run triggers it? I really want that card to be good and it seems like it might work better in your list than in others.
Mentor of the Meek seriously overperformed. I went 11 sisters from 12, removed the walls and put 3 Mentor of the Meek. Once, in ten turns my library went to 23 cards. Mentor is awesome here and I never even thought about it, thanks!
I had a feeling it might. It's always been right on the brink of worthwhile for us, but the tokens from Spectral and Lingering often give us too many triggers and we have too many creatures in the stock build that will never trigger it (Archangel and Ranger take up 6-8 slots in most builds) to make it make sense. A more value-oriented deck like yours can abuse him for ridiculous advantage. I'm drooling a little bit with stuff like Finks and Eternal Witness pairing with him. Glad it worked and hope it keeps shining for you!
Steven, I took a look at your mtggoldfish list and it looks pretty viable. I wouldn't run the martyrs or the rams personally, but that doesn't mean they're not worth running. However, I would add some fetches to get those godless shrines. 4 black sources means you'll get B by turn 4 a little over 50% of the time. I run 4 shrines, 4 fetches, and one shambling vent, and I still occasionally stumble on black.
Steven, I took a look at your mtggoldfish list and it looks pretty viable. I wouldn't run the martyrs or the rams personally, but that doesn't mean they're not worth running. However, I would add some fetches to get those godless shrines. 4 black sources means you'll get B by turn 4 a little over 50% of the time. I run 4 shrines, 4 fetches, and one shambling vent, and I still occasionally stumble on black.
your right on fetches, need to put em in there, rams are in there cause there cool imo :). lol if the lady playing want to change she can, I dont have flats, but guess i could do windswepts. Guess on Martyrs it is still part of old stock list
Steven, I took a look at your mtggoldfish list and it looks pretty viable. I wouldn't run the martyrs or the rams personally, but that doesn't mean they're not worth running. However, I would add some fetches to get those godless shrines. 4 black sources means you'll get B by turn 4 a little over 50% of the time. I run 4 shrines, 4 fetches, and one shambling vent, and I still occasionally stumble on black.
Generally splashing works a hell lot better with the Flagstones + GQ strategy. More consistent, and also just generally good.
The first draft of the new primer is live! It's still missing some depth in some sections (Deck lists in Splash section, a discussion of all of the sideboard options) but I will add those in the coming days. I wanted to give everyone a chance to look at it as I put the finishing touches on it. If you'd like to make any suggestions (either content or aesthic wise), feel free to share them here or to shoot me a PM! Thanks for all of your valuable feedback over the last year or so guys; it really helped me make this Primer.
Steven, I took a look at your mtggoldfish list and it looks pretty viable. I wouldn't run the martyrs or the rams personally, but that doesn't mean they're not worth running. However, I would add some fetches to get those godless shrines. 4 black sources means you'll get B by turn 4 a little over 50% of the time. I run 4 shrines, 4 fetches, and one shambling vent, and I still occasionally stumble on black.
Generally splashing works a hell lot better with the Flagstones + GQ strategy. More consistent, and also just generally good.
That does work, but then I have less GQs to use offensively. But then I'm also MDing two Leonin Arbiters so my plan is a little more Death and Taxish than most.
I just completed a hyper budget section of the primer that uses Cave of Koilos as the black splash card. I think if the only thing you're splashing for is Lingering Souls' Flashback, you can get away with that, a Filter Land (Fetid Heath is ours) or a check land (Isolated Chapel). I actually like these just as much as I like Fetches and Shocks, honestly.
Scooze may very well be one of the strongest additions in any of these lists. It pairs well with Pridemate but likely won't be able to get us over that 30 life threshold. It is a win-con all its own and easily replaces Ajani's Pridemate. It can even disrupt Living End and other GY decks from the mainboard.
Selesnya Charm makes a guy, takes care of opposing fatties like Wurmcoil without the downside associate with Orzhov Charm but without the versatility, and it pumps Serra though it isn't repeatable like Stronghold.
Just wondering, as I was thinking of picking up the deck and attempting a G splash (Sel Sisters), and the combo potential with Feeder + Archangel, the ability to suddenly drop 2 sisters and get a 8/8 pridemate (or two Serra Ascendants at 6/6 Flying Lifelink, though that's christmasland), or substitute a W sister for Essence Warden (Though that does weaken Martyr of the Sands).
Those seem like pretty strong reasons to pick green.
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Oath of the Gatewatch; the set that caused the competitive community to freak out over Basic Lands.
Scooze may very well be one of the strongest additions in any of these lists. It pairs well with Pridemate but likely won't be able to get us over that 30 life threshold. It is a win-con all its own and easily replaces Ajani's Pridemate. It can even disrupt Living End and other GY decks from the mainboard.
Selesnya Charm makes a guy, takes care of opposing fatties like Wurmcoil without the downside associate with Orzhov Charm but without the versatility, and it pumps Serra though it isn't repeatable like Stronghold.
Just wondering, as I was thinking of picking up the deck and attempting a G splash (Sel Sisters), and the combo potential with Feeder + Archangel, the ability to suddenly drop 2 sisters and get a 8/8 pridemate (or two Serra Ascendants at 6/6 Flying Lifelink, though that's christmasland), or substitute a W sister for Essence Warden (Though that does weaken Martyr of the Sands).
Those seem like pretty strong reasons to pick green.
They seem strong, but they're really not. They don't compliment the main plan, instead distracting from it and forcing you to play a different deck. Double green cards like Spike Feeder are usually uncastable, especially on a splash.
I use green solely for the sideboard, which seems to be the best use. Dromoka's Command main is probably the only green I'd consider main. Congregation sucks, Company is a terrible mana investment, and Spike Feeder will never be cast. Finks is the only one you listed that could be worth it, but the only merit it brings is the Persist. Selesnya Charm is a worse Dromoka's Command, Scooze is a worse RIP on a stick. Gavony Township is probably something to look at, and I'll test it out, but really not much is good. Essence Warden is bad. Not better than the white sisters by any stretch of the imagination, since you'll very rarely have green on T1, causing you to lose significant tempo.
The sideboard is where green is amazing. You get Choke, Gaddock Teeg, more Dromoka's Commands. Gaddock Teeg is the most important sideboard card by far, since it makes Tron winnable. Not even marginally winnable, quite winnable. If you go up to 4 in the board expecting heavy Tron and Amulet, Gaddock Teeg will do a hell lot of good for you.
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Modern: UWR Control
Legacy: W D&T
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We've all tried different janky stuff, as Jex has said. You can't just toss things into a deck because they are good cards. I think Jex said in an earlier post that a deck like Jund is practically a greatest hits of MTG cards in BRG... Soul Sisters cannot do that.
We have brewed. I have tried Bitterblossom, Dark Confidant, Kitchen Finks, Secure the Wastes (not a janky card in Sisters at all)... I did try CoCo. It was not worth it. I cut Ranger for it and it was worse. We have tried all sorts of things... go through the Primer. We have tried all sorts of crazy things in this deck, and we are at the point we are now because of the things we have tried.
I am not being snarky at all to you. Sorry if my tones comes off that way, but we have been brewing and trying all sorts of different things. Some winning lists (a few posts back) have Thalia and some other stuff that we have said NO to, and those decks won money. Someone recently had WORSHIP in their main build and did well at an FNM... not saying FNM is the answer, but that's how we can playtest until the big shows. There has been some innovation in the deck, but we are being careful. One card makes a huge difference. Taking away a fourth Auriok Champion or going down to three Honor of the Pure changes things... any little change modifies the deck heavily.
Because Sisters work together............
We have to remember that getting comfortable with how the deck plays in our current build is way more important that making drastic change after drastic change to try to "optimize it" when we haven't given one build enough playtesting to find out why it's not working. I've had lots of days where I took Sisters to a tournament and just hit a string of bad matchups or bad luck and went 1-4 or 2-3 and wanted to start over. That's not helpful to you or to the deck. Give your build honest testing for a few weeks, find out where the problems really are, find out what you need to fix it.
CoCo is an example of this process. Everyone has said card advantage is one of the reasons we don't win and CoCo is a card advantage machine that is worth exploring. In my, and the testing of others, it seems like it's not generating enough value in the traditional build. So now we have to decide whether we tinker with the main core to to maximize CoCo value or cut CoCo and look for a card advantage machine that works with the core of the deck. You could potentially get some value out of Finks with CoCo. I don't know why Rogue Deck Builder didn't include it over Scooze or Pridemage.
I think the Green splash is much more exciting for Choke out of the board and Dromoka's Command than for CoCo, though. Those cards can do some serious work.
Anafenza is strong here, and Collected Company makes up for missing token engines. I don't know if this is as good as your usual Soul Sisters deck, but I am having fun.
4x Ajani's Pridemate
3x Anafenza, Kin-Tree Spirit
4x Essence Warden
2x Carven Caryatid
3x Serra Ascendant
4x Auriok Champion
2x Soul Warden
2x Soul's Attendant
2x Spellskite
4x Eternal Witness
4x Collected Company
4x Path to Exile
Lands
4x Horizon Canopy
2x Forest
4x Ghost Quarter
4x Plains
4x Temple Garden
4x Windswept Heath
3x Celestial Flare
2x Melira, Sylvok Outcast
3x Rest in Peace
3x Stony Silence
2x Qasali Pridemage
2x Suppression Field
I'd started with Wall of Omens, but I am very happy with Carven Caryatid for now. It seems very dismissable, but it has a serious presence on board.
http://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/345205#paper
Mentor of the Meek seriously overperformed. I went 11 sisters from 12, removed the walls and put 3 Mentor of the Meek. Once, in ten turns my library went to 23 cards. Mentor is awesome here and I never even thought about it, thanks!
your right on fetches, need to put em in there, rams are in there cause there cool imo :). lol if the lady playing want to change she can, I dont have flats, but guess i could do windswepts. Guess on Martyrs it is still part of old stock list
Generally splashing works a hell lot better with the Flagstones + GQ strategy. More consistent, and also just generally good.
UWR Control
Legacy:
W D&T
That does work, but then I have less GQs to use offensively. But then I'm also MDing two Leonin Arbiters so my plan is a little more Death and Taxish than most.
No mention of Spike Feeder? Collected Company? Congregation at Dawn? Kitchen Finks?
Just wondering, as I was thinking of picking up the deck and attempting a G splash (Sel Sisters), and the combo potential with Feeder + Archangel, the ability to suddenly drop 2 sisters and get a 8/8 pridemate (or two Serra Ascendants at 6/6 Flying Lifelink, though that's christmasland), or substitute a W sister for Essence Warden (Though that does weaken Martyr of the Sands).
Those seem like pretty strong reasons to pick green.
They seem strong, but they're really not. They don't compliment the main plan, instead distracting from it and forcing you to play a different deck. Double green cards like Spike Feeder are usually uncastable, especially on a splash.
I use green solely for the sideboard, which seems to be the best use. Dromoka's Command main is probably the only green I'd consider main. Congregation sucks, Company is a terrible mana investment, and Spike Feeder will never be cast. Finks is the only one you listed that could be worth it, but the only merit it brings is the Persist. Selesnya Charm is a worse Dromoka's Command, Scooze is a worse RIP on a stick. Gavony Township is probably something to look at, and I'll test it out, but really not much is good. Essence Warden is bad. Not better than the white sisters by any stretch of the imagination, since you'll very rarely have green on T1, causing you to lose significant tempo.
The sideboard is where green is amazing. You get Choke, Gaddock Teeg, more Dromoka's Commands. Gaddock Teeg is the most important sideboard card by far, since it makes Tron winnable. Not even marginally winnable, quite winnable. If you go up to 4 in the board expecting heavy Tron and Amulet, Gaddock Teeg will do a hell lot of good for you.
UWR Control
Legacy:
W D&T