Auriok Champion is an insane card. It's easily the best sister, and I'd run 6 if I could.
The cards in the core which I feel will eventually be replaced are Martyr of Sands and Ajani's Pridemate. I just feel like there will be something better. Some people don't even run Martyr, and it makes sense, but it's still good enough to run. Pridemate would need a pretty amazing card to replace it, because it's so good. Often, people will target my 10/10 Pridemate rather than my activated Ascendant, because it's just so strong.
That said, if we get a new sister, that would be SWEET.
Pridemate for me is the weakest card - but only in the problem matches- combo matches (with the exception of Ad Nauseam) and control/combo.
I think 10/10s beat up on all the creature and aggro decks that we already do well against. I do not want to beat up zoo that bit more, I want to fix ascendancy, URW control etc. The only match that is fast enough to win via speed is Affinity, and etched champion ignores Pridemate.
Combo/control matches like Pod just block it a couple of times and go off. The Ascendant is more threatening as it flies and they have a lot less flyers to block with.
Most matches like tron, jund and URW run sweepers. If they are dead early via martyr/ascendant or cheated angel then we win. If the game goes long it is because they sweep the board with whatever, and the Pridemate starts off as an unexciting topdecked 2/2. If I do run PM I always want to run BTE, and that starts eating up into design space, and makes the deck feel far more "all in."
I have tried without Martyr- and I agree it works just as well in many matches. What the Martyr allows for is explosiveness vs decks with inevitability like tron or shift. As such I went back to it. I was not able to add/find enough control elements to give me as much inevitability.
I suspect in the long run the cards that get replaced will be hawks or pridemates and then the martyr/ascendant engine. Hawks allow a bit of get out vs zoo etc, enabling us to be controlling whilst setting up pridemates if you run them. But in our problem matches- tron, scapeshift (at least the versions with omen), and control- they are very weak. They are not bad at all- I have used them in a PTQ- but they are weakest in our weak matches. If we could get into a sword more easily or jitte gets unbanned they would be much better.
The way you phrased that is super important, Mark B. Against decks with inevitability we will stall out and if you're going to stall out you might as well have something fantastic in the first few turns. That's why Serra/Martyr will probably always stay 4-ofs in my builds.
Went 3-2 and just missed top 8 (Only one 3-2 made it.) I ended up trying Jotun Grunt. Here's the list and a quick report.
This guy told me this was his first tournament ever and he ended up killing my tiebreakers going forward. He was using Endless Ranks of Dead and a Blue enchantment to give himself more upkeeps, which ended up being just terrible against me. Game 1 I kept a risky one lander, but ended up getting an Auriok Champ down to chump. I got to about 200 life before I was able to fetch out Serra Ascendants and take him down. Game 2 I had to mull to 5, but that five featured Squadron Hawk and Jotun Grunt, who eventually got there for me.
Round 2: 0-2 against Jund splashing W
When I left, this guy seemed to be on his way to winning. Game one I get Auriok Champion on board but he keeps me off of Serra Ascendant and smashes away with Scavenging Ooze and Tarmogoyf. I notice he's running a Temple Garden, which I find odd until game 2 goes about the same, but replace Scooze and Goyf with Siege Rhino. This matchup is still so ropey without finding Jotun Grunts.
Round 3: 1-2 against U/R Delver
God, this sucked. Game one is long and drawn out but Auriok Champion keeps my life total hovering enough to let me find Serra Ascedant and smash my way out of trouble. Game 2 I mull to five and can't find enough chumps to get my life total up high enough to win. Game 3 I get flooded out and lose. Heartbreaking.
Round 4: U/R Twin
Game one I get the Serra online on turn 2 and smash him out, taking him down in three turns thanks to him Gitaxian Probeing. Game 2 I suddenly regret running 4 Ghost Quarters as I keep a hand with a Plains and Ghost Quarter and then proceed to not draw any other land than Ghost Quarters for a while. I'm still able to keep two sisters on the board to prevent him from going off, but with 1 Plains and a Ghost Quarter he forces me to Ghost Quarter my own tapped Plains so I can double path to keep him from twinning. I'm able to turn things from there and win.
Round 5: U/R Delver
Game one I'm able to get a sister and some spirits up pretty quickly while Pathing his stuff and take him down. Game 2 is incredibly long and drawn out because he can't get me off of 3 sisters (bummer you can't run board wipes, dude), and he might have self-mulled had I not had Jotun Grunts alive for as long as I did. He eventually takes enough incidental damage from fetching and other things that I am able to Brave The Elements and swing for game with a bunch of Hawks, Auriok Champions and Grunt on turn 4 of turns.
The top tables ended up featuring 4 Delver builds (3 U/R, 1 UWR), 2 Jund, a Mono-Black thing I didn't get a good look at and G/W Hatebears. One of the Jund players was actually the other 3/2 who made cut in front of me, so my matchups would have been delicious had the tiebreakers been better.
My takeways:
-Going back down to 20 land and cutting a Ghost Quarter to do so might be worthwhile. I need more testing at 21 lands to see how consistent my mana is, but I might cut the land to up to a 4th Auriok Champion or to bring back the 4th Soul's Attendant.
-As MarkB has been proclaiming, Jotun Grunt is scary to drop on people. It would have saved me in Jund, it forced a U/R player to 2-for-1 to kill it, and helped apply pressure in a big way. It's going to stay in for now, but I would have liked to see a UWR matchup to see how it would have fared.
-As everyone is saying, Auriok Champion is a must main. 3 seems nice and comfy, but I don't think a fourth is a bad call. The WW, even with my two tap lands and Ghost Quarters, was not really ever a problem.
-Sundering Growth never came in once and really ticks me off. I hate that this card is so handy in tough match ups, because my meta seems mostly free of Tron, Affinity and other decks it would matter against.
Heartbreak indeed. Delver one is rough as we do well v it. The jund match is easier with angels, but that would need a different base. I think if I was on your deck I would go to two quarters max. Just gut instinct. Maybe a couple of windbrisks. The ww problem is real for me at three spectral and three grey lands in 22 23.
I went to two grey lands and it is more comfortable. I have a big top end, but the principle is the same.
I have used splicer as a threat that makes Lilly worse v jund. Spectral 4 to 6. Just a thought. Also wondered about paladin en vec in the side....
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Ps I too went back to Martyr, and found that when I played more riskily with it it was better. If you use angels even gaining three life late game can be a big deal. Best way to beat tron is to go off turn 2.
I hope the new commander card containment priest makes it into modern one day, maybe via the last base set. Not sure how it would fit in but I feel it would be a board option for the two slot. What we all want is more protection options. I hope we get a pro jund sista one day. Not real pro,just one that can be given pro in exchange for life say, which would be ok for us in the long run. Either that or pro green and hexproof for red n black. That would solve a lot of issues and help rid us of jund, which has no bad matches. I would love it if we became jund's nightmare match.....make them feel like the rest of us.
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I'll second that bit about playing risky. I tend to hit paydirt more when I play into an open counter situation than when I hold back fearing the counter. That actually hurt me in the Delver matchup. I will also say greedy attacks really hurt in a few matchups, though (Swinging into a flipped Delver with Serra is bad. Swinging with Auriok when a Delver player had Snapcaster mana open was so bad.) So, you still very much have to pick your spots with greed.
Hitting Spectral was rarely a problem for me even at 20 lands (which was 4 Quarters, 2 Mistveil, 2 Flagstones and Plains). I think my curve is just so low that I can get away with such a risky land count. The reason I'm not high on Angel is that I want this to be fast aggro rather than a more consistent mid-range strategy, even if it means the occasional late game blowout. Part of me even wants to lose the Ranger (which is why my Ranger count is so low) but I know that's just being super greedy.
A lot of my local meta is Jund, so I think I'm going to test more with Grunt before I make more changes to hurt Jund. So much of my sideboard has application in the Jund matchup right now that dedicating a slot just to it seems like overkill a bit. As good as Auriok Champion is, the problem is still Goyf and Ooze just as much as it is the removal, and Grunt will help there in a big way.
Containment Priest is awesome in Modern, but I feel like it's one of those cards that again, is more for Hatebears than for us. Keep in mind that it would make Windbrisk a little unplayable.
Jotun Grunt seems way more relevant than Militant in my mind. Militant is just too vulnerable to all of the stuff they use against our sisters and makes running board wipes that much easier for them. They can't use any of the traditional board wipes to straight up kill a Grunt, whereas literally anything red that deals damage to a creature kills Militant unless you have Honor on the board.
If I know a deck is on Snapcaster, I try to use Grunt to get rid of their burn first, then their counters. Getting their flashback-able spells out of the bin where they can do things with them is the right call, especially since they're probably running extra copies they can draw into anyway. Putting back their other stuff doesn't really "make their deck worse" because you're not guaranteeing they draw it, and they can still draw another copy of the card you're leaving in the yard. We kind of have to deal with the imminent threat (Snapcastering back a spell that hurts us).
What about Stillmoon Cavalier? From the games that I have played with this deck (not very many), I have had games stall out on the board with an empty hand and lots of lands. If Stillmoon Cavalier was on board then we could sink all our mana into it and attack.
Angel impacts the board the moment it comes down in a more destructive way- pumps that turn. The only way ringmate can do that is without raid as a lifegain effect to switch on SA.
Both survive and die to the same spells.
On an empty board - and this is the main point- angel is better- - its first swing potentially pumping the next draw and itself for sure.
Roc is less impressive with no mates.
No deck is going to survive early cheated or even mid game unanswered 5 drops. So if it goes on the enemy will have deployed some serious removal- which brings us again to the empty board, where angels are better.
on grunt
a- I feel it is main board- relevant in both modes as a beat or graveyard hoser vs most decks- but everyone knows that I feel that way so I will shut up.
I go for spells first vs any snappy deck
Men vs scooze decks
and lastly I recycle my stuff and then their lands.
Vs some decks like burn I put their lands back first, but with the danger of TC spells is a good bet.
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Path their Lords, Land destruct their Mutavaults and be a little faster if we can. Post-board we Brave the Elements past their potential wall of blockers or use BtE to mess up their attacks if we can and Sundering Growth their vials. It's not that bad of a matchup for us, but they can sometimes win the race.
If you're looking for a Mana-sink, Figure of Destiny seems much better than Cavalier, since it can make its butt bigger. I wouldn't really run either.
I'm on the Grunt bandwagon, too. I can't wait until I can get back in against some Jund and UWR so I can confirm my suspicions about how good it is in those matchups, which are big problems for us. UWR doesn't seem like it can do much to handle a 4/4 without removing it (which it's also running them out of by taking away Snapcaster) and Grunt gives us some serious teeth against Jund's Goyf and Ooze. It's still vulnerable to abrupt decay, but what in our deck isn't?
Yes, pretty much everything outside of Angels die to Decay, which are not universal.
Having played a lot with grunt I can tell you that once they do remove it Jund will fill its bin up pretty quickly. It is not an "I win" card vs Jund, nothing is. But it is a card on a par with Auriok Champion in the match- which is good in most languages. It has an impact nearly every time it lands. I have even kept both RIP from the board and grunt v Jund- even though it is a nonbo they run so much removal that they get their bin online eventually after one or the other, unless they are dead or decide to play without the bin, which is the wrong play for Jund v Sistas.
Vs USA Grunt is a path magnet at any stage. No path leaves them with the problem of big beats early and none of that late game power.
A minor interaction is Grunt and GQ- using Quarter to hit their or even your own land in your upkeep with the trigger on the stack can sometimes keep it around a turn longer- vital for some matches vs combo. Edge offers less flexibility, although I still use Edge in preference.
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I have been playing against pod a lot recently and been dying a lot to orzhov pontiff Is there a way to protect our creatures from him? He kills half of the creatures in our deck...:frown:
Isn't that list a Martyr-Proc list and not a soul sister list?
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Standard Decks: B Mono Black Aggro B
Modern Decks: G Infect G G Stompy! G
In Progress: BGR Living End (Modern) BGR U Tron (Modern) U BW Tokens (Modern) BW WUBRG Manaless Dredge (Legacy) WUBRG UBR Nekusar, the Mindrazer (EDH) UBR
Isn't that list a Martyr-Proc list and not a soul sister list?
They said it was. It's semi-relevant to us because it proves how powerful the Martyr/Serra combo is in this current meta, which might cause some of the people breaking away from it to rethink not including it.
Martyr/Proc may begin making a comeback after LSV promoted playing it in an article on "ways to beat Treasure Cruise." I'm surprised he didn't highlight us in that article, as I think we're the much better deck in this meta right now.
Well in the old threads it was under "White Lifegain" with the two decks subforumed I think...... I personally felt the decision to separate them was, and remains, wrong, especially as Sistas often sideboards into martyr with multiple wraths/Ghostly effects.. Unlike D and T/Hatebears there are fewer distinctions between the decks, and lists are generally less settled due to the fact that the decks have had less success. MTGS always places a strong emphasis on MTGO finishes (too much for my personal liking- I will take an SCG finish as being much more meaningful than ten daily 4-0s, but I understand people feel differently if they play more online), and as such we often see Martyr and Sista based lists they are often more compromised as the deck attracts new players with low budgets, which adds to the lack of consensus about both.
The only thing you can say is that this Martyr build ran more control cards, but if you check the lists in this forum quite a few people have pushed the Sista deck into a control direction one way or anther. One thing I love is that Aura of silence got some love at the event. I have sung that hymn in many fora in Modern. Clearly the Proc plan works, but it is very vulnerable to Scooze, and unless we run wraths as well I think it is a no no with Just 4 paths. The Hawk plan obviously worked too, but I feel it is less good with fewer Wraths, and less good in Sista lists. I would not be averse to adding wrath into Sista lists main, but prefer them Side, alongside Prisons.
I think we could run Wayfarer though, potentially.
The message should go forward though- White Sistas need to interact, and when cutting cards from the deck it is the ones that do not interact that should go first. Mr Pridemate..........
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Pridemate for me is the weakest card - but only in the problem matches- combo matches (with the exception of Ad Nauseam) and control/combo.
I think 10/10s beat up on all the creature and aggro decks that we already do well against. I do not want to beat up zoo that bit more, I want to fix ascendancy, URW control etc. The only match that is fast enough to win via speed is Affinity, and etched champion ignores Pridemate.
Combo/control matches like Pod just block it a couple of times and go off. The Ascendant is more threatening as it flies and they have a lot less flyers to block with.
Most matches like tron, jund and URW run sweepers. If they are dead early via martyr/ascendant or cheated angel then we win. If the game goes long it is because they sweep the board with whatever, and the Pridemate starts off as an unexciting topdecked 2/2. If I do run PM I always want to run BTE, and that starts eating up into design space, and makes the deck feel far more "all in."
I have tried without Martyr- and I agree it works just as well in many matches. What the Martyr allows for is explosiveness vs decks with inevitability like tron or shift. As such I went back to it. I was not able to add/find enough control elements to give me as much inevitability.
I suspect in the long run the cards that get replaced will be hawks or pridemates and then the martyr/ascendant engine. Hawks allow a bit of get out vs zoo etc, enabling us to be controlling whilst setting up pridemates if you run them. But in our problem matches- tron, scapeshift (at least the versions with omen), and control- they are very weak. They are not bad at all- I have used them in a PTQ- but they are weakest in our weak matches. If we could get into a sword more easily or jitte gets unbanned they would be much better.
Went 3-2 and just missed top 8 (Only one 3-2 made it.) I ended up trying Jotun Grunt. Here's the list and a quick report.
3 Auriok Champion
4 Martyr of Sands
2 Ranger of Eos
4 Serra Ascendant
4 Soul Warden
3 Soul's Attendant
4 Squadron Hawks
4 Spectral Procession
4 Honor of the Pure
13 Plains
4 Ghost Quarter
2 Flagstones of Trokair
2 Mistveil Plains
2 Brave The Elements
2 Suppression Field
2 Stony Silence
2 Sundering Growth
2 Leyline of Sanctity
2 Rest In Peace
1 Celestial Flare
Round 1: 2-0 against a Janky UB Zombie build.
This guy told me this was his first tournament ever and he ended up killing my tiebreakers going forward. He was using Endless Ranks of Dead and a Blue enchantment to give himself more upkeeps, which ended up being just terrible against me. Game 1 I kept a risky one lander, but ended up getting an Auriok Champ down to chump. I got to about 200 life before I was able to fetch out Serra Ascendants and take him down. Game 2 I had to mull to 5, but that five featured Squadron Hawk and Jotun Grunt, who eventually got there for me.
Round 2: 0-2 against Jund splashing W
When I left, this guy seemed to be on his way to winning. Game one I get Auriok Champion on board but he keeps me off of Serra Ascendant and smashes away with Scavenging Ooze and Tarmogoyf. I notice he's running a Temple Garden, which I find odd until game 2 goes about the same, but replace Scooze and Goyf with Siege Rhino. This matchup is still so ropey without finding Jotun Grunts.
Round 3: 1-2 against U/R Delver
God, this sucked. Game one is long and drawn out but Auriok Champion keeps my life total hovering enough to let me find Serra Ascedant and smash my way out of trouble. Game 2 I mull to five and can't find enough chumps to get my life total up high enough to win. Game 3 I get flooded out and lose. Heartbreaking.
Round 4: U/R Twin
Game one I get the Serra online on turn 2 and smash him out, taking him down in three turns thanks to him Gitaxian Probeing. Game 2 I suddenly regret running 4 Ghost Quarters as I keep a hand with a Plains and Ghost Quarter and then proceed to not draw any other land than Ghost Quarters for a while. I'm still able to keep two sisters on the board to prevent him from going off, but with 1 Plains and a Ghost Quarter he forces me to Ghost Quarter my own tapped Plains so I can double path to keep him from twinning. I'm able to turn things from there and win.
Round 5: U/R Delver
Game one I'm able to get a sister and some spirits up pretty quickly while Pathing his stuff and take him down. Game 2 is incredibly long and drawn out because he can't get me off of 3 sisters (bummer you can't run board wipes, dude), and he might have self-mulled had I not had Jotun Grunts alive for as long as I did. He eventually takes enough incidental damage from fetching and other things that I am able to Brave The Elements and swing for game with a bunch of Hawks, Auriok Champions and Grunt on turn 4 of turns.
The top tables ended up featuring 4 Delver builds (3 U/R, 1 UWR), 2 Jund, a Mono-Black thing I didn't get a good look at and G/W Hatebears. One of the Jund players was actually the other 3/2 who made cut in front of me, so my matchups would have been delicious had the tiebreakers been better.
My takeways:
-Going back down to 20 land and cutting a Ghost Quarter to do so might be worthwhile. I need more testing at 21 lands to see how consistent my mana is, but I might cut the land to up to a 4th Auriok Champion or to bring back the 4th Soul's Attendant.
-As MarkB has been proclaiming, Jotun Grunt is scary to drop on people. It would have saved me in Jund, it forced a U/R player to 2-for-1 to kill it, and helped apply pressure in a big way. It's going to stay in for now, but I would have liked to see a UWR matchup to see how it would have fared.
-As everyone is saying, Auriok Champion is a must main. 3 seems nice and comfy, but I don't think a fourth is a bad call. The WW, even with my two tap lands and Ghost Quarters, was not really ever a problem.
-Sundering Growth never came in once and really ticks me off. I hate that this card is so handy in tough match ups, because my meta seems mostly free of Tron, Affinity and other decks it would matter against.
I went to two grey lands and it is more comfortable. I have a big top end, but the principle is the same.
I have used splicer as a threat that makes Lilly worse v jund. Spectral 4 to 6. Just a thought. Also wondered about paladin en vec in the side....
I hope the new commander card containment priest makes it into modern one day, maybe via the last base set. Not sure how it would fit in but I feel it would be a board option for the two slot. What we all want is more protection options. I hope we get a pro jund sista one day. Not real pro,just one that can be given pro in exchange for life say, which would be ok for us in the long run. Either that or pro green and hexproof for red n black. That would solve a lot of issues and help rid us of jund, which has no bad matches. I would love it if we became jund's nightmare match.....make them feel like the rest of us.
Hitting Spectral was rarely a problem for me even at 20 lands (which was 4 Quarters, 2 Mistveil, 2 Flagstones and Plains). I think my curve is just so low that I can get away with such a risky land count. The reason I'm not high on Angel is that I want this to be fast aggro rather than a more consistent mid-range strategy, even if it means the occasional late game blowout. Part of me even wants to lose the Ranger (which is why my Ranger count is so low) but I know that's just being super greedy.
A lot of my local meta is Jund, so I think I'm going to test more with Grunt before I make more changes to hurt Jund. So much of my sideboard has application in the Jund matchup right now that dedicating a slot just to it seems like overkill a bit. As good as Auriok Champion is, the problem is still Goyf and Ooze just as much as it is the removal, and Grunt will help there in a big way.
Containment Priest is awesome in Modern, but I feel like it's one of those cards that again, is more for Hatebears than for us. Keep in mind that it would make Windbrisk a little unplayable.
If I know a deck is on Snapcaster, I try to use Grunt to get rid of their burn first, then their counters. Getting their flashback-able spells out of the bin where they can do things with them is the right call, especially since they're probably running extra copies they can draw into anyway. Putting back their other stuff doesn't really "make their deck worse" because you're not guaranteeing they draw it, and they can still draw another copy of the card you're leaving in the yard. We kind of have to deal with the imminent threat (Snapcastering back a spell that hurts us).
What about Stillmoon Cavalier? From the games that I have played with this deck (not very many), I have had games stall out on the board with an empty hand and lots of lands. If Stillmoon Cavalier was on board then we could sink all our mana into it and attack.
Both survive and die to the same spells.
On an empty board - and this is the main point- angel is better- - its first swing potentially pumping the next draw and itself for sure.
Roc is less impressive with no mates.
No deck is going to survive early cheated or even mid game unanswered 5 drops. So if it goes on the enemy will have deployed some serious removal- which brings us again to the empty board, where angels are better.
on grunt
a- I feel it is main board- relevant in both modes as a beat or graveyard hoser vs most decks- but everyone knows that I feel that way so I will shut up.
I go for spells first vs any snappy deck
Men vs scooze decks
and lastly I recycle my stuff and then their lands.
Vs some decks like burn I put their lands back first, but with the danger of TC spells is a good bet.
Can you post your list? I've always believed the Merfolk matchup to be on our side. What do you exactly die to?
Path their Lords, Land destruct their Mutavaults and be a little faster if we can. Post-board we Brave the Elements past their potential wall of blockers or use BtE to mess up their attacks if we can and Sundering Growth their vials. It's not that bad of a matchup for us, but they can sometimes win the race.
If you're looking for a Mana-sink, Figure of Destiny seems much better than Cavalier, since it can make its butt bigger. I wouldn't really run either.
Having played a lot with grunt I can tell you that once they do remove it Jund will fill its bin up pretty quickly. It is not an "I win" card vs Jund, nothing is. But it is a card on a par with Auriok Champion in the match- which is good in most languages. It has an impact nearly every time it lands. I have even kept both RIP from the board and grunt v Jund- even though it is a nonbo they run so much removal that they get their bin online eventually after one or the other, unless they are dead or decide to play without the bin, which is the wrong play for Jund v Sistas.
Vs USA Grunt is a path magnet at any stage. No path leaves them with the problem of big beats early and none of that late game power.
A minor interaction is Grunt and GQ- using Quarter to hit their or even your own land in your upkeep with the trigger on the stack can sometimes keep it around a turn longer- vital for some matches vs combo. Edge offers less flexibility, although I still use Edge in preference.
-Anonymous
Isn't that list a Martyr-Proc list and not a soul sister list?
Standard Decks:
B Mono Black Aggro B
Modern Decks:
G Infect G
G Stompy! G
In Progress:
BGR Living End (Modern) BGR
U Tron (Modern) U
BW Tokens (Modern) BW
WUBRG Manaless Dredge (Legacy) WUBRG
UBR Nekusar, the Mindrazer (EDH) UBR
They said it was. It's semi-relevant to us because it proves how powerful the Martyr/Serra combo is in this current meta, which might cause some of the people breaking away from it to rethink not including it.
Martyr/Proc may begin making a comeback after LSV promoted playing it in an article on "ways to beat Treasure Cruise." I'm surprised he didn't highlight us in that article, as I think we're the much better deck in this meta right now.
The only thing you can say is that this Martyr build ran more control cards, but if you check the lists in this forum quite a few people have pushed the Sista deck into a control direction one way or anther. One thing I love is that Aura of silence got some love at the event. I have sung that hymn in many fora in Modern. Clearly the Proc plan works, but it is very vulnerable to Scooze, and unless we run wraths as well I think it is a no no with Just 4 paths. The Hawk plan obviously worked too, but I feel it is less good with fewer Wraths, and less good in Sista lists. I would not be averse to adding wrath into Sista lists main, but prefer them Side, alongside Prisons.
I think we could run Wayfarer though, potentially.
The message should go forward though- White Sistas need to interact, and when cutting cards from the deck it is the ones that do not interact that should go first. Mr Pridemate..........