you heard 'em folks, shut the format down, every game ends turn 3 according to some guy so don't play any 4 mana cards
I didnt say that
But if you are going to bring Night to fight
Arbor Elf, Champion of the Parish, Glistener Elf, Memnite and Sakura-Tribe Elder
I wont bet on you
In this forum, most people talk of 50% win-rate. I know I win a lot more than that.
You call it mish mash but really it's just more removal and counter magic. SURVIVABILITY! Crazy thought, lasting longer in games.
And how is it unfocused? It's very focused. I want 12 mill. 14 if Trapmaker's Snare. Ashiok alt-win. Removal for creatures, discard/counter magic for combo. Depending on meta - sideboard.
A control player can't win til after turn 12 in the best conditions. Can't attack with a Colonnade til turn 6, if you hit all your land drops and didnt eat a land (or one of yours gets eaten) assuming you're facing a dry hand otherwise a control player won't attack without counter backup.
Turn 5 I've already got my opp to 48 cards just from draws. Not takingn into account fetch or extra draws. Turn 1 Hedron (rep. 12 avg mill) puts opp at 36 by turn 5. Any Archives (free and fits in control players plan)... each one reduces that number by thirds (13, 26, 39). Glimps/Snap to seal the deal. GG.
The issue is - you're not coming from a place of experience or knowledge. Earliest mill deck was a control deck, and it won because it could survive.
EDIT:
FYI it's not an attach on you but it seems like someone said this is mill and this is the only way to play it and that's where your mind is at. I was playing mill for 2 cards a turn, sometimes 4, and winning. So when you say it's wishy washie mesh or whatever. No. Don't knock a deck til you play it.
The issue is - you're not coming from a place of experience or knowledge. Earliest mill deck was a control deck, and it won because it could survive.
EDIT:
FYI it's not an attach on you but it seems like someone said this is mill and this is the only way to play it and that's where your mind is at. I was playing mill for 2 cards a turn, sometimes 4, and winning. So when you say it's wishy washie mesh or whatever. No. Don't knock a deck til you play it.
I've been playing Magic and mill decks likely longer than you've been alive. Magic for nearly 25 years and mill in some form or another for 20. I recently placed top 32 in a 400+ person tournament with it. I don't need someone telling me how their poorly tuned deck is going to goldfish.
Good luck with your build, but it's a very poor version of mill. It's a U/B control deck with some mill cards thrown in and you'll find that it doesn't hold up to a more refined and tuned version of mill when you play against actual real other people playing actual tier 1 decks.
Lol. I thought you were some jerkoff kid because you so quickly, without testing, decided it was going to fail. I've also been playing just about as long. Mostly collecting til Time ElementalStasisKismet.
And I don't goldfish. Ive been playing at Channelfireball, Anime and Gator for like 8-9 years. I also bought the deck so I could play it online.
How exactly is it a poorly tuned deck? I see a good curve, protection, countermagic, digging/draws, and MILL! You're running your mouth in a forum where we should be constructive to find a way to make these decks work. I've been testing this deck for months. Trying Lili's, Discard, Orbs, 3 surgical 3 extirpate, Tome Scour for a t1, Bridges, more creatures, no creatures and all this with peoples whose names you probably know.
Back and forth on VoB and Trapmaker's Snare. Can't play Ensnaring Bridge because I'm holding too many cards in hand. I don't like Tar Pit. Mesmeric side, I like to have 6 counterspells so rest are in sb. Snapcaster < Torpor Orb. Grafdiggers, Damping Sphere, more Crypt Incursions round out the rest.
Unrefined. lol
I'm going to log my games and record them here. We'll see.
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Modern:
Fish
U/W Control
U/B Control
U/B Control Mill, U/R Ascension Mill, BUG Mill
G Tron, Eldrazi Tron, Eldrazi Aggro
Junkie Doran
U/W Ephara Flash
Splendid Dredge
it's close. I think shortly after JTMS and BBE were released was the best I've seen recently. There was a TON of bad control decks trying to make Jace happen and several Tron decks were all over, along with a resurging Jund, which also was a fairly good matchup. Rounding out the top tier were Humans, Storm, Hollow One, and various Valakut decks, which while Humans can be rough, the others can be fairly good matches. Humans and Hollow One can be beaten pretty well, depending on how you board and how disruptive their draws were. Plus there were not a lot of Dredge, Counters Company, Burn, or Infect - which all tended to be rougher matches.
The format has sped up a bit since then, with KCI and BridgeVine now being a lot more popular. Burn and Infect have also made a little resurgence and Tron has faded just a tad, though still plenty popular. Control is still out there, but a little more tuned these days - still a good matchup overall. I do think the format is favorable overall, but you need to be prepared to weather the storm of the super fast linear combo and aggro decks and pack Leyline of the Void.
How did/do you board against Jund? I thought Blood Braid made Jund a favorite against us, whereas before the unbanning I felt like I could get the better of them.
I also think the printing of Teferi was huge for us because it all but planted Gideon of the Trials on the bench.
Goal is to blank any removal they leave in and prioritize using Surgical Extraction on K-Command and if they have them Ancient Grudge to make Ensnaring Bridge a strong lock. Use spot removal to keep the board clean early, with board wipes as needed. Mill is incidental and not the priority.
I think it's a tougher matchup with Bloodbraid Elf, but still winnable
Edit: and yeah, Gideon being pushed out of the format is huge
If you're in a heavy humans meta then yea, it is a game winning play because all their artifact answers are ETB effects. It probably does decent work against spirits and a few other decks. Completely meta dependent in my opinion.
It will 'stop' Phantasmal Image provided they copy a creature with etb trigger. And 2/3 of copyable creatures have etb triggers (by copyable I mean everything except Phantasmal Image and Thalia, the former because it will copy original, not Image and the latter because there is no much sense to copy legendary)
Very exciting to see Caleb Durward actively try to tune Mill and saying it's one of his 4 best performing decks in the current meta game. Don't have time to post his full list but it's basically the Modern Challenge list by Buur except
MB
-1 Search
-1 Fatal Push (moved to SB)
+2 Inquisition
-1 shelldock
-1 academy ruins
+1 field of ruin
+1 swamp
SB
-4 Leyline
-1 Night of Souls Betrayal
-1 Yahenni's Expertise
Arbor Elf
Birds of Paradise
Blighted Agent
Bloodghast
Champion of the Parish
Dark Confidant
Delver of Secrets
Elvish Visionary
Glistener Elf
Gravecrawler
Grim Lavamancer
Insolent Neonate
Lingering Souls
Llanowar Elves
Memnite
Narcomoeba
Noble Hierarch
Phyrexian Revoker
Sakura-Tribe Elder
Selfless Spirit
Signal Pest
Sin Collector
Steel Overseer
Thalia's Lieutenant
Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
Vault Skirge
Vendilion Clique
Young Pyromancer
Plus just making creatures hit for less in general
G Green Stompy
RG Shamans
UB Mill
UG Infect
WUBRG Slivers!
But if you are going to bring Night to fight
Arbor Elf, Champion of the Parish, Glistener Elf, Memnite and Sakura-Tribe Elder
I wont bet on you
I played Night in sb for over a year.
G Green Stompy
RG Shamans
UB Mill
UG Infect
WUBRG Slivers!
You call it mish mash but really it's just more removal and counter magic. SURVIVABILITY! Crazy thought, lasting longer in games.
And how is it unfocused? It's very focused. I want 12 mill. 14 if Trapmaker's Snare. Ashiok alt-win. Removal for creatures, discard/counter magic for combo. Depending on meta - sideboard.
A control player can't win til after turn 12 in the best conditions. Can't attack with a Colonnade til turn 6, if you hit all your land drops and didnt eat a land (or one of yours gets eaten) assuming you're facing a dry hand otherwise a control player won't attack without counter backup.
Turn 5 I've already got my opp to 48 cards just from draws. Not takingn into account fetch or extra draws. Turn 1 Hedron (rep. 12 avg mill) puts opp at 36 by turn 5. Any Archives (free and fits in control players plan)... each one reduces that number by thirds (13, 26, 39). Glimps/Snap to seal the deal. GG.
The issue is - you're not coming from a place of experience or knowledge. Earliest mill deck was a control deck, and it won because it could survive.
EDIT:
FYI it's not an attach on you but it seems like someone said this is mill and this is the only way to play it and that's where your mind is at. I was playing mill for 2 cards a turn, sometimes 4, and winning. So when you say it's wishy washie mesh or whatever. No. Don't knock a deck til you play it.
Fish
U/W Control
U/B Control
U/B Control Mill, U/R Ascension Mill, BUG Mill
G Tron, Eldrazi Tron, Eldrazi Aggro
Junkie Doran
U/W Ephara Flash
Splendid Dredge
I've been playing Magic and mill decks likely longer than you've been alive. Magic for nearly 25 years and mill in some form or another for 20. I recently placed top 32 in a 400+ person tournament with it. I don't need someone telling me how their poorly tuned deck is going to goldfish.
Good luck with your build, but it's a very poor version of mill. It's a U/B control deck with some mill cards thrown in and you'll find that it doesn't hold up to a more refined and tuned version of mill when you play against actual real other people playing actual tier 1 decks.
And I don't goldfish. Ive been playing at Channelfireball, Anime and Gator for like 8-9 years. I also bought the deck so I could play it online.
How exactly is it a poorly tuned deck? I see a good curve, protection, countermagic, digging/draws, and MILL! You're running your mouth in a forum where we should be constructive to find a way to make these decks work. I've been testing this deck for months. Trying Lili's, Discard, Orbs, 3 surgical 3 extirpate, Tome Scour for a t1, Bridges, more creatures, no creatures and all this with peoples whose names you probably know.
Where I'm at currently
3 Snapcaster Mage
4 Glimpse the Unthinkable
4 Archive Trap
4 Fatal Push
2 Cast Down
1 Dismember
1 Damnation
2 Spell Snare
2 Visions of Beyond
4 Serum Visions
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Crypt Incursion
23 Land
Back and forth on VoB and Trapmaker's Snare. Can't play Ensnaring Bridge because I'm holding too many cards in hand. I don't like Tar Pit. Mesmeric side, I like to have 6 counterspells so rest are in sb. Snapcaster < Torpor Orb. Grafdiggers, Damping Sphere, more Crypt Incursions round out the rest.
Unrefined. lol
I'm going to log my games and record them here. We'll see.
Fish
U/W Control
U/B Control
U/B Control Mill, U/R Ascension Mill, BUG Mill
G Tron, Eldrazi Tron, Eldrazi Aggro
Junkie Doran
U/W Ephara Flash
Splendid Dredge
The format has sped up a bit since then, with KCI and BridgeVine now being a lot more popular. Burn and Infect have also made a little resurgence and Tron has faded just a tad, though still plenty popular. Control is still out there, but a little more tuned these days - still a good matchup overall. I do think the format is favorable overall, but you need to be prepared to weather the storm of the super fast linear combo and aggro decks and pack Leyline of the Void.
I also think the printing of Teferi was huge for us because it all but planted Gideon of the Trials on the bench.
+1 Damnation
+1 Dismember
+2 Cast Down
+1 Ensnaring Bridge (3 main)
+1 Surgical Extraction (2 main)
+1 Collective Brutality (2 main)
-4 Manic Scribe
-4 Hedron Crab
Note: I play 4 Fatal Push as my removal main.
Goal is to blank any removal they leave in and prioritize using Surgical Extraction on K-Command and if they have them Ancient Grudge to make Ensnaring Bridge a strong lock. Use spot removal to keep the board clean early, with board wipes as needed. Mill is incidental and not the priority.
I think it's a tougher matchup with Bloodbraid Elf, but still winnable
Edit: and yeah, Gideon being pushed out of the format is huge
Obviously a meta call but just wondering if it's worked for others.
Fish
U/W Control
U/B Control
U/B Control Mill, U/R Ascension Mill, BUG Mill
G Tron, Eldrazi Tron, Eldrazi Aggro
Junkie Doran
U/W Ephara Flash
Splendid Dredge
G Green Stompy
RG Shamans
UB Mill
UG Infect
WUBRG Slivers!
MB
-1 Search
-1 Fatal Push (moved to SB)
+2 Inquisition
-1 shelldock
-1 academy ruins
+1 field of ruin
+1 swamp
SB
-4 Leyline
-1 Night of Souls Betrayal
-1 Yahenni's Expertise
+1 Extirpate
+1 Collective Brutality
+1 Fatal push
+2 Tormod's Crypt
+1 Inquisition
John Grier UB Mill, 4th Place
4 Hedron Crab
4 Manic Scribe
Spells (30)
2 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Mesmeric Orb
4 Archive Trap
2 Crypt Incursion
3 Fatal Push
3 Surgical Extraction
4 Visions of Beyond
2 Search for Azcanta
2 Collective Brutality
4 Glimpse the Unthinkable
3 Island
2 Swamp
1 Bloodstained Mire
3 Darkslick Shores
4 Field of Ruin
1 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta
2 Shelldock Isle
2 Watery Grave
2 Dismember
2 Echoing Truth
1 Fatal Push
2 Ravenous Trap
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Night of Souls' Betrayal
2 Bontu's Last Reckoning
2 Collective Brutality
2 Set Adrift
Fish
U/W Control
U/B Control
U/B Control Mill, U/R Ascension Mill, BUG Mill
G Tron, Eldrazi Tron, Eldrazi Aggro
Junkie Doran
U/W Ephara Flash
Splendid Dredge