Jace's Phantasm works well against burn.... stone walls their creatures at least and it's hard for them to get rid of. Sometimes the life off Crypt Incursion is just enuf. I'd disagree that Archive Traps are useless as Boros Burn typically runs ~10 fetches.....
Against Burn, just get Ensnaring Bridge down asap, and then Surgical Extraction on all their burn spells - each one you put into the graveyard from the library is a card milled.
Crypt Incursion is bound to gain you some life back, and Snapcaster Mage is a great chump blocker.
Hi all, I'm tempted to dive into Mill, playing pretty much all strategies in Modern (combo with Ad Nauseam, control with UW and Esper, aggro with Burn, etc.). I'm really loving the axis of attack of the deck and I was wondering how you would evaluate the performance of it in a meta full of aggro (Burn, Affinity) and combo (Storm, Ad Nauseam)? Thanks guys!
Burn matchup depends on your build, Mill can be very good against Burn if you preside for them) Ensnaring Bridge is not good, dont fall into that, as probably Damnation. By the time you use them their creatures dealt enough damage and they just burn you with spells. Profane Memento, Crypt Incursion, Jace's Phantasm and Manic Scribe are your friends (and maybe I forgot something)
Some combo decks inherently weak against Mill because by the time they execute combo at least half of their deck in the graveayrd, so Ad Nauseam can easily be without win conditions or not enough lands. Scapeshift not enough mountains. Tron establishes control over the board but you just burn them with topdecks or they never assemble tron because you surgicaled one of the lands.
Vs other decks mill helps them (Dredge, Living End, Storm, Reanimator) so you pray on your hate cards. And Emrakul is almost unwinnable game1.
Collective Brutality, Fatal Push, Spellskite, Inquisition, White Leyline (not recommended) also help vs Burn
Oh and dont use Surgical or splash white vs Burn
Why wouldn't you want to exile a burn spell like Lightning Bolt? A: it takes them away from them, and B: pay B to remove up to 3 other very relevant cards from their library (or remove them from their hand?)
Why wouldn't you want to exile a burn spell like Lightning Bolt? A: it takes them away from them, and B: pay B to remove up to 3 other very relevant cards from their library (or remove them from their hand?)
if the burn player has mana open, they can just bolt you in response to the extraction. if you don't strip bolts from their hand, it's strict card disadvantage (cards in deck don't count as card advantage.)
also, burn decks have so many bolt variants, that extraction hardly screws up their "combo pieces" (too much redundancy.)
That's fine. Since we are a mill deck, we don't care about anything except getting cards out of their library. I'm more than happy to specifically target the largest threats in the deck, one of which is definitely LB. Additionally, Snapcaster allows me to get as many as 8 uses from 4 SE. That's a lot of specific targets vs Burn. Along with Ensnaring Bridge to stop threats like Goblin Guide, and lifegain from Crypt Incursion, I've had great success vs Burn. I've had several scoop as soon as I play Crypt Incursion.
What you do not want to do is pay life for Surgical Extraction.
Why wouldn't you want to exile a burn spell like Lightning Bolt? A: it takes them away from them, and B: pay B to remove up to 3 other very relevant cards from their library (or remove them from their hand?)
You are not likely to get a card out of their hand. Even if you do, its worse than Inquisition because it needs setup. Milling 2-3 cards is super low value. Milling 3 spells doesnt affect their draw quality much. So its bad most of the times and mediocre in other => bad. Also you want to play it asap to maximize probability of discarding so you can easily be in lose/lose situation: either you play it and postpone for a turn your B spells or you postpone your extraction and lose probability or you play it for life and you lose life. Also their card quality pretty much the same, you cant break their deck by extracting any piece from it.
Thanks guys! I've figured out 3 Crypt Incursion in the main is the best thing, 2 Ensnaring Bridge in the side for more heavy creature matchups. Also, I'll run 4 Jace's Phantasm in the main with 4 Crab, so I can race them if needed!
Why Ruinous Path? Do you know of Hero's Downfall? Though Id choose Fatal Push or Dismember, not playing a full set of former in 75 is a mistake imo.
Adding a color for a sideboard hate should be wrong, the only deck I know to do this is Naya Burn, but Naya Burn doesnt mind lose life because its always the beatdown and Destructive Revelry is a perfect sideboard card because its wide AND adcances main game plan.
And Steady Progress looks completely off, the only counters card I see is Ruinous Path so I dont understand this cantrip for 3 mana at all.
Steady Progress must be a meta call. I looked into its usefulness if the SB and in legacy it ticks up Chalice of the Void making it so you can cast your 1 or two drops easier. It could also be used to tick up Engineered Explosives or even mess with someones aether vial.
Still, its a ~very~ situational card but with potentially spicy possibilities.
You're not wrong. Best we have main board Game 1 is Crypt Incursion and hoping we've milled enough to make a difference. Also, Collective Brutality escalated to drain and take a instant/sorcery from hand can make a nice difference.
Im not sure you understand the matchup
You were saying that Archive Trap and Crypt Incursion were blank vs them and to splash white...
They play about 10 fetches so they fetch every game
They play 12-18(Nacatl) creatures so Crypting after milling 30 cards will exile 6+ creatures on average, thats 18+ life and Burn's surrender. Yes they have Skullcrack but if they keep it ready at all times then they give us a lot of time. And they need to actually draw it.
Adding a third color is losing a lot vs Burn as your lands come into play tapped or shock you, lose/lose situation.
Profane Memento is the best tech against burn. Resolving a Crypt Incursion can be too late, and a player who knows your deck will make it hard by keeping skullcrack up until last minute.
Profane memento can be dropped t1 and puts in work as we advance our gameplan. Putting only 6 creatures in the yard is already 6 life gain, not to even mention if you get multiples out.
Manic Scribe is another good one against burn, 3 toughness can stop their goblin guides.
Another other good option is to go creatureless, since that turns off their Searing blazes.
Obvious MVP is Collective brutality, since all modes are seriously relevant against burn.
I haven't played the deck in quite a while, but with the last build I was playing with the 4 memento maindeck, creatureless and with brutalities and Crypt Incursion in the SB Burn was an okay matchup.
Has anyone done any testing with Vengeful Pharaoh in the main or the side as a form of creature control? I'm thinking it would be good against Hollow One, Tasigur, etc, that you can't Fatal Push. If you get one (or more) in your graveyard with a Mesmeric Orb out, it seems like it would decimate their army pretty quickly, and keep ending up back in the graveyard for you next turn.
I think I might shave a couple Fatal Push and try to slot 3 Pharaohs in and see how it goes
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Crypt Incursion is bound to gain you some life back, and Snapcaster Mage is a great chump blocker.
Some combo decks inherently weak against Mill because by the time they execute combo at least half of their deck in the graveayrd, so Ad Nauseam can easily be without win conditions or not enough lands. Scapeshift not enough mountains. Tron establishes control over the board but you just burn them with topdecks or they never assemble tron because you surgicaled one of the lands.
Vs other decks mill helps them (Dredge, Living End, Storm, Reanimator) so you pray on your hate cards. And Emrakul is almost unwinnable game1.
G Green Stompy
RG Shamans
UB Mill
UG Infect
WUBRG Slivers!
Oh and dont use Surgical or splash white vs Burn
G Green Stompy
RG Shamans
UB Mill
UG Infect
WUBRG Slivers!
if the burn player has mana open, they can just bolt you in response to the extraction. if you don't strip bolts from their hand, it's strict card disadvantage (cards in deck don't count as card advantage.)
also, burn decks have so many bolt variants, that extraction hardly screws up their "combo pieces" (too much redundancy.)
limited - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vkfx2kA8gok&feature=emb_logo
limited - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I3RYiZJFCK0
limited - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j18HlKybrm8&feature=emb_logo
standard - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JiAEzfAgpbI&t=1s
standard - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vNr_4ubfMg&t=1s
standard - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJcwpxraL-g&t=1s
modern - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8MyVNLVYNw&t=1s
modern - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-M5ffoArnY&t=1s
modern - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_yQEBOPi_w&feature=emb_logo
extended - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLpUB9zpyr4&feature=emb_logo
What you do not want to do is pay life for Surgical Extraction.
G Green Stompy
RG Shamans
UB Mill
UG Infect
WUBRG Slivers!
After sideboarding, Smash to Smithereens becomes a thing but I'd have taken out my surgicals at that point.
UR Niv-Mizzet, The Firemind
WUR Narset's Coinflip Casino
Modern
UB Mill
Aggro: Naya Burn RWG
Combo: Scapeshift RG
Control: Jeskai Control UWR
Legacy
Control: Miracles UW
Aggro: Burn R
The maybeboard is a full list of all cards I keep for my sideboard, which is always changing.
https://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/01-05-18-ub-mill-modern/
I like Nature's Claim. Seems like a solid card as we don't care how much life the opponent has. Makes me want to test natures claim in the SB.
UR Niv-Mizzet, The Firemind
WUR Narset's Coinflip Casino
Modern
UB Mill
Adding a color for a sideboard hate should be wrong, the only deck I know to do this is Naya Burn, but Naya Burn doesnt mind lose life because its always the beatdown and Destructive Revelry is a perfect sideboard card because its wide AND adcances main game plan.
And Steady Progress looks completely off, the only counters card I see is Ruinous Path so I dont understand this cantrip for 3 mana at all.
G Green Stompy
RG Shamans
UB Mill
UG Infect
WUBRG Slivers!
Still, its a ~very~ situational card but with potentially spicy possibilities.
UR Niv-Mizzet, The Firemind
WUR Narset's Coinflip Casino
Modern
UB Mill
You're not wrong. Best we have main board Game 1 is Crypt Incursion and hoping we've milled enough to make a difference. Also, Collective Brutality escalated to drain and take a instant/sorcery from hand can make a nice difference.
UR Niv-Mizzet, The Firemind
WUR Narset's Coinflip Casino
Modern
UB Mill
You were saying that Archive Trap and Crypt Incursion were blank vs them and to splash white...
They play about 10 fetches so they fetch every game
They play 12-18(Nacatl) creatures so Crypting after milling 30 cards will exile 6+ creatures on average, thats 18+ life and Burn's surrender. Yes they have Skullcrack but if they keep it ready at all times then they give us a lot of time. And they need to actually draw it.
Adding a third color is losing a lot vs Burn as your lands come into play tapped or shock you, lose/lose situation.
G Green Stompy
RG Shamans
UB Mill
UG Infect
WUBRG Slivers!
Profane memento can be dropped t1 and puts in work as we advance our gameplan. Putting only 6 creatures in the yard is already 6 life gain, not to even mention if you get multiples out.
Manic Scribe is another good one against burn, 3 toughness can stop their goblin guides.
Another other good option is to go creatureless, since that turns off their Searing blazes.
Obvious MVP is Collective brutality, since all modes are seriously relevant against burn.
I haven't played the deck in quite a while, but with the last build I was playing with the 4 memento maindeck, creatureless and with brutalities and Crypt Incursion in the SB Burn was an okay matchup.
I think I might shave a couple Fatal Push and try to slot 3 Pharaohs in and see how it goes