So I'm thinking of taking this to an upcoming GP i've been playing it a ton on xmage with a lot of success but I just want to know your guys thoughts and I'm still trying to figure out a side board though.
Manic scribe helps get around Leyline sanctity while you look for a removal spell and is a good blocker for burn or other small creature decks. fraying sanity can end a game very quickly if you are falling behind and just in general. Yes Fraying sanity is sometimes the first thing sided out but I'm ok with that. I've tried Snapecaster Mage out a bit and it is too slow. I've also played 3 and 4 Surgical Extraction and it was way too much if anything a 3rd could be put into the sideboard for certain match ups. Extirpate is just a no I never have open mana to waste on it that's why Surgical is so much better. Ensnaring Bridge I'm torn between it is a great card but if you are relying on it to save you and it gets wiped your screwed that's why I went for Cryptic Icursion when you gain 20+ life its back breaking for your opponent + its also its great graveyard hate.
I've been following this Thread for quite sometime and tweeking this deck with all of the discussions on cards and I rarely lose online but I know I may not always be playing a skilled opponents but when I do it preforms very well and I'm quite happy with it so far
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Im an active trader on MOTL my handle there is Vito
So I'm thinking of taking this to an upcoming GP i've been playing it a ton on xmage with a lot of success but I just want to know your guys thoughts and I'm still trying to figure out a side board though.
Id definitely go for 3rd Shelldock isle perphaps instead of fourth Isaland and Oboro or Darkslick
Profane Momento looks like sideboard tech, I dont know if metagame justifies its mainboard inclusion
Breaking is a low value card, Id try to lower its number for example by adding Visions
Inquisition isnt played much as sideboard card, if you want it to fight combo and control Id go with Thoughtseize
D dont know how effective is Nihil Spellbomb and graftdiggers cage as grave hate Id go with Ravenous Trap and more Surgicals
Hey gang, I'm wondering why people have gone away from the Esper build of the deck? The great sideboard cards plus Path (with archive trap) seems great. Why has this gone away? Is it just the worse mana base?
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Legacy: Burn (18-6-1 over multiple events)
Eldrazi and Taxes (under construction)
Modern: Eldrazi Tron (All sanctioned events; Record: 38-9-2 over ~12 Wed/Fri Night Modern events: 78% match win rate; last updated 9.13.17)
Jeskai Harbinger
Naya Burn (20-6-2 over multiple 1K and FNM events; retired)
Building: Esper control and a mill deck for fun and some variety.
I think maybe 2 Shelldock Isle but 3 is a little much with the amount of Blood moon being played. Oboro, Palace in the Clouds has great synergy with Hedron Crab and with it coming into play untapped is big also. Profane Momento does look like it should be in the sideboard but I urge you to give it a shot in the main some of those close match ups we have game one this makes it a lot easier for us definitely if it drops on turn one just about 95% of matches your opponent is playing some creatures. If they are not playing many creatures its a easy choice to side out. (but again will have to see how the main stage meta is looking come time) Breaking//Entering I feel having 8 2cmc mill spells are ideal to get the ball rolling definitely with playing Surgical Extraction its important to be able to put a good chunk into the graveyard. Visions from Beyond I played 4 for a while but 4 was to many some times id get flooded early and they were waste 3 feels good. Inquisistion of Kozilek VS Thoughtseize came down to one simple thing life lose is not good. Nihil Spellbomb and graftdiggers cage these 4 spots ive been trying to figure out for a while. Ravenous Trap not a big fan as its very conditional for its free cast, but one thing I do know is that with filling graveyards we need a way do prevent them from being used against us.
Esper builds makes the mana base very difficult and again with all the blood moon decks around + Ponza decks. White doesn't give us enough to really warrant it and isn't as consistent.
I think that UB is the strongest color bases for this deck.
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Im an active trader on MOTL my handle there is Vito
Hey gang, I'm wondering why people have gone away from the Esper build of the deck? The great sideboard cards plus Path (with archive trap) seems great. Why has this gone away? Is it just the worse mana base?
White doesnt bring much. Id say Push is even better than Path for Mill because we arent going for lategame, we just want to hold off opponent for some time, so we need to hit little things more than big things.
@vito653 I can agree with most you said calling it personal preference except Iquisition vs Thoughtseize. Inquisition is not a side tech vs aggro and midrange so life doesnt matter when you want to disrupt combo or control. Also maybe you overestimate Oboro. I play it myself and it rarely matters. Most of the times Crab dies or one of us wins before I can abuse Oboro. Besides the fact that you cant search for it. Btw Im not a fan of Surgical main. I share the opinion that its the most misused card. Recently I brought them for combo matchup but my opponent sided into Geist of Saint Traft and I died two times to it. This lowers its value for me because its not super good even vs combo. But Mill is one of the greatest shell for it and it has results so I call it personal preference too.
The main reason I think is due to Field of Ruin and Fatal Push. Field of Ruin is a guaranteed Archive Trap tech, and Fatal Push hits most things we need it to hit. With these two, and the smoother mana base UB gives, is why I think UB is superior to Esper at this time. Esper is so bad against Blood Moon it's not funny.
I would like to have some advice on a couple of cards. I have my own oppinion but i would like to know all yours.I play mill now almost a year btw. Fnm pptq and other similair tournaments
Fraying sanity : Good card. But not good without actual mill cards. I have played 2,3 and 4 copies. There good if u have 2 but mu overal oppinion is not to play them.
Jace phantasm : Also a good card. Mostly t1 phantasm t2 glimpse kick for 5 in the air. Problem with this card is the creature count is low so removal gets this very often
Its also good vs leyline of sanctity i now play 4 sb
Breaking//entering : thinking about a 4-4 split with glimpse. There is no other card that mills the same
Snapcaster mage: i have seen this i a couple of lists and i tried it. Mostly surgical snap surgical is good imo. A suprise blocker + visions from beyond is also nice
Surgical//extirpate : That these cards belong in the 75 is obvious but what is the correct split? I now play 3 surgical main 3 extirpate sb.
Manic scribe: Not a big fan of this one. Maybe im wrong but i tried this and it just mills 3 and then dies to either removal or a chump block.
I play the usual hedron crab, glimpse, archive trap, did i mis somenthing??
imo
Manic Scribe: ok card, but requires buildaround, you cant just throw it into mill list and expect it to be good. Ignores Leyline
Fraying Sanity: play 2, works bad in multiples, provides some synergy for Scribe
Surgical//extirpate: play 4 Surgicals in your side, maybe 1-2 main (better if you run discard) Surgical is superior due to free mana
Snapcaster Mage: bad, doesnt provide power in time
Breaking and Mind Funeral: fill mill spells, about the same power, choose whatever suits your curve, play them if you have free slots and dont want to play anything else
Mesmeric Orb: 4-of must have, strong synergy with Scribe, ignores Leyline
Shelldock Isle: play 2-4, great finisher, you can easily run out of gas with opponent at 7 cards without this.
Jace phantasm: I play 1 main, could play second. Works better if you have Scribe imo, this way you more likely end with a creature after opponents removal. Crab, Scribe can be pretty devastating if left unchecked and Phantasm just wins games. Also opponents tend to not care about life when they play against Mill
Two colour mana base to support a full 4 Field of Ruin. The card is so good in this deck, I can't see it ever being less than a full playset. That means no 3 colour manabases in a world of Blood Moon and Ponza.
The other big changes in the main board for me are dropping Visions of Beyond for Compelling Argument and cutting Mind Funeral down to 1. Visions only drew three cards for me 2-30% of the time and was a horrible top deck most games. Compelling Argument cycles for 1 blue so can get around counterspells and acts as a weak mill card later in the game when you just want to finish off your opponent. Mind Funeral is too random to be relied on, but I like having access to 1 in the 75.
In the sideboard I went for something different. I figured if they try play Leyline or Witchbane Orb I just want a different angle of attack. So I went with the Thopter Sword combo, which I have a lot of experience using. We shall see if it works good, or if I switch back to a more full mill build. If I do, more graveyard hate and Profane Momento are the first cards I'm looking to add. Perhaps another Crypt Incursion and/or Manic Scribes for the Leyline matches.
The one flex spot in this build is currently Thought Scour. It cantrips and mills two for one blue.
I'll do some more testing and keep everyone posted on how I do.
Well Dominaria is spoiled now. I didn't see anything of interest to us except Damping Sphere in SB. Anyone else see anything that we might find useful?
Diligent Excavator seems to be the only partially decent mill creature but it isn't going to be milling as much as Manic Scribe on delerium. The 1 power is the only main upside but still isn't worth it as most creatures that kill us generally have 2 toughness or get pumped.
UB Mill has captured a couple of 5-0 on MTGO recently that I think everyone will be interested in.
Congratulations cov3rtpanda and Buur on carrying the mill flag. If either of you wants to add anything about your matches or interesting plays... feel free!
1. Why 3 Ghost Quarters instead of 4 Field of Ruin? FoR seems objectively better, especially since you are playing Crabby and Achive Trap.
2. How useful were the Thoughtseizes? What do you want to get rid of with them?
3. How are the Shelldocks? Do they slow you down too much? How often do they miss anything useful?
4. What did you have in your sideboard?
1. How did Manic Scribe work for you as well as 8 creatures?
2. I assume Collective Brutality was in for the Bridge synergy. How did you find it?
3. How did Search for Azcanta do? Does it work better for you than Fraying Sanity?
I just went 4-1 with this in league... Might swap the darkness with cyclonic rift. I only lost to two poor draws against storm and little that I had that could interact with them.
Hi all, I'm tempted to dive into Mill, playing pretty much all strategies in Modern (combo with Ad Nauseam, control with UW and Esper, aggro with Burn, etc.). I'm really loving the axis of attack of the deck and I was wondering how you would evaluate the performance of it in a meta full of aggro (Burn, Affinity) and combo (Storm, Ad Nauseam)? Thanks guys!
Tom, Mill runs Surgical Extraction and Extirpation to destroy combo decks.
Aggro tends to run a fair number of creatures, and Mill has several ways to deal with that. Ensnaring Bridge, Damnation and Crypt Incursion all deal ably with creature based aggro decks.
The burn match up is horrible. Archive traps are useless, crypt incursion is useless since they typically aren't running very many creatures. I haven't figured out a good strategy for burn outside of splashing white. I added 2 spellkites (which is fun when you're playing against boggles too! :0 ) figuring its better than nothing... but thats the only strategy i've come up with so far...
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4 Archive Trap
4 Fatal Push
3 Visions from Beyond
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Cryptic Incursion
Sorcery
4 Glimps the Unspeakable
4 Breaking//Entering
Artifact
4 Mesmiric Orb
3 Profane Momento
Enchantment
3 Fraying Sanity
4 Hedron Crab
Lands
1 Dark Slickshores
3 Field of Ruin
3 Flooded Stands
4 Island
1 Oboro, Palace in the Clouds
4 Poluted Delta
1 Shelldock isle
2 Swamp
4 Watery Grave
3 Inquisistion of Kozilek
2 graftdiggers cage
2 Nihil Spellbomb
4 Manic Scribe
2 Echoing Truth
1 Cryptic Icursion
1 Set Adrift
Im an active trader on MOTL my handle there is Vito
IMO you are better off replacing them with Ensnaring Bridge/Snapcaster Mage/more Surgical Extraction or Extirpate.
I've been following this Thread for quite sometime and tweeking this deck with all of the discussions on cards and I rarely lose online but I know I may not always be playing a skilled opponents but when I do it preforms very well and I'm quite happy with it so far
Im an active trader on MOTL my handle there is Vito
Id definitely go for 3rd Shelldock isle perphaps instead of fourth Isaland and Oboro or Darkslick
Profane Momento looks like sideboard tech, I dont know if metagame justifies its mainboard inclusion
Breaking is a low value card, Id try to lower its number for example by adding Visions
Inquisition isnt played much as sideboard card, if you want it to fight combo and control Id go with Thoughtseize
D dont know how effective is Nihil Spellbomb and graftdiggers cage as grave hate Id go with Ravenous Trap and more Surgicals
G Green Stompy
RG Shamans
UB Mill
UG Infect
WUBRG Slivers!
Eldrazi and Taxes (under construction)
Modern: Eldrazi Tron (All sanctioned events; Record: 38-9-2 over ~12 Wed/Fri Night Modern events: 78% match win rate; last updated 9.13.17)
Jeskai Harbinger
Naya Burn (20-6-2 over multiple 1K and FNM events; retired)
Building: Esper control and a mill deck for fun and some variety.
I think Green is perhaps worth splashing for, for Blossoming Defense to protect Crab.
Esper builds makes the mana base very difficult and again with all the blood moon decks around + Ponza decks. White doesn't give us enough to really warrant it and isn't as consistent.
I think that UB is the strongest color bases for this deck.
Im an active trader on MOTL my handle there is Vito
@vito653 I can agree with most you said calling it personal preference except Iquisition vs Thoughtseize. Inquisition is not a side tech vs aggro and midrange so life doesnt matter when you want to disrupt combo or control. Also maybe you overestimate Oboro. I play it myself and it rarely matters. Most of the times Crab dies or one of us wins before I can abuse Oboro. Besides the fact that you cant search for it. Btw Im not a fan of Surgical main. I share the opinion that its the most misused card. Recently I brought them for combo matchup but my opponent sided into Geist of Saint Traft and I died two times to it. This lowers its value for me because its not super good even vs combo. But Mill is one of the greatest shell for it and it has results so I call it personal preference too.
G Green Stompy
RG Shamans
UB Mill
UG Infect
WUBRG Slivers!
What Esper does bring is good sideboard tech. I really do miss not having Rest in Peace, Tempest of Light or Disenchant and Timely Reinforcements in the SB for those troublesome matchups.
imo
Manic Scribe: ok card, but requires buildaround, you cant just throw it into mill list and expect it to be good. Ignores Leyline
Fraying Sanity: play 2, works bad in multiples, provides some synergy for Scribe
Surgical//extirpate: play 4 Surgicals in your side, maybe 1-2 main (better if you run discard) Surgical is superior due to free mana
Snapcaster Mage: bad, doesnt provide power in time
Breaking and Mind Funeral: fill mill spells, about the same power, choose whatever suits your curve, play them if you have free slots and dont want to play anything else
Mesmeric Orb: 4-of must have, strong synergy with Scribe, ignores Leyline
Shelldock Isle: play 2-4, great finisher, you can easily run out of gas with opponent at 7 cards without this.
Jace phantasm: I play 1 main, could play second. Works better if you have Scribe imo, this way you more likely end with a creature after opponents removal. Crab, Scribe can be pretty devastating if left unchecked and Phantasm just wins games. Also opponents tend to not care about life when they play against Mill
G Green Stompy
RG Shamans
UB Mill
UG Infect
WUBRG Slivers!
4 Archive Trap
2 Crypt Incursion
3 Fatal Push
3 Surgical Extraction
1 Thought Scour
Sorcery
1 Mind Funeral
4 Glimps the Unspeakable
4 Breaking // Entering
4 Compelling Argument
Artifact
3 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Mesmiric Orb
4 Hedron Crab
Lands
4 Polluted Delta
1 Flooded Strand
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Marsh Flats
2 Watery Grave
3 Darkslick Shores
4 Island
3 Swamp
4 Field of Ruin
3 Damnation
2 Lost Legacy
3 Echoing Truth
4 Thopter Foundry
3 Sword of the Meek
Two colour mana base to support a full 4 Field of Ruin. The card is so good in this deck, I can't see it ever being less than a full playset. That means no 3 colour manabases in a world of Blood Moon and Ponza.
The other big changes in the main board for me are dropping Visions of Beyond for Compelling Argument and cutting Mind Funeral down to 1. Visions only drew three cards for me 2-30% of the time and was a horrible top deck most games. Compelling Argument cycles for 1 blue so can get around counterspells and acts as a weak mill card later in the game when you just want to finish off your opponent. Mind Funeral is too random to be relied on, but I like having access to 1 in the 75.
In the sideboard I went for something different. I figured if they try play Leyline or Witchbane Orb I just want a different angle of attack. So I went with the Thopter Sword combo, which I have a lot of experience using. We shall see if it works good, or if I switch back to a more full mill build. If I do, more graveyard hate and Profane Momento are the first cards I'm looking to add. Perhaps another Crypt Incursion and/or Manic Scribes for the Leyline matches.
The one flex spot in this build is currently Thought Scour. It cantrips and mills two for one blue.
I'll do some more testing and keep everyone posted on how I do.
My Decks:
UR Niv-Mizzet, The Firemind
WUR Narset's Coinflip Casino
Modern
UB Mill
Congratulations cov3rtpanda and Buur on carrying the mill flag. If either of you wants to add anything about your matches or interesting plays... feel free!
cov3rtpanda (5-0)
April 17, 2018
3 Darkslick Shores
1 Field of Ruin
2 Flooded Strand
3 Ghost Quarter
2 Island
4 Polluted Delta
3 Shelldock Isle
1 Swamp
4 Watery Grave
4 Hedron Crab
Sorcery (10)
4 Glimpse the Unthinkable
4 Mind Funeral
2 Thoughtseize
Instant (17)
4 Archive Trap
1 Crypt Incursion
4 Fatal Push
4 Surgical Extraction
4 Visions of Beyond
4 Mesmeric Orb
Enchantment (2)
2 Fraying Sanity
Questions for cov3rtpanda:
1. Why 3 Ghost Quarters instead of 4 Field of Ruin? FoR seems objectively better, especially since you are playing Crabby and Achive Trap.
2. How useful were the Thoughtseizes? What do you want to get rid of with them?
3. How are the Shelldocks? Do they slow you down too much? How often do they miss anything useful?
4. What did you have in your sideboard?
Buur (5-0)
April 10, 2018
2 Flooded Strand
1 Marsh Flats
4 Polluted Delta
2 Watery Grave
3 Darkslick Shores
3 Field of Ruin
3 Shelldock Isle
2 Island
2 Swamp
Creature (8)
4 Hedron Crab
4 Manic Scribe
2 Collective Brutality
4 Glimpse the Unthinkable
Instant (15)
4 Archive Trap
1 Crypt Incursion
3 Fatal Push
3 Surgical Extraction
4 Visions of Beyond
Artifact (7)
3 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Mesmeric Orb
Enchantment (2)
2 Search for Azcanta
1 Crypt Incursion
1 Fatal Push
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Damnation
2 Dismember
1 Echoing Truth
4 Leyline of the Void
1 Liliana's Defeat
1 Night of Souls' Betrayal
2 Set Adrift
Questions for Buur:
1. How did Manic Scribe work for you as well as 8 creatures?
2. I assume Collective Brutality was in for the Bridge synergy. How did you find it?
3. How did Search for Azcanta do? Does it work better for you than Fraying Sanity?
Thanks and congrats again to both of you.
My Decks:
G Green Stompy
RG Shamans
UB Mill
UG Infect
WUBRG Slivers!
1 Field of Ruin
1 Verdant Catacombs
4 Watery Grave
4 Polluted Delta
2 Island
2 Ghost Quarter
3 Flooded Strand
3 Shelldock Isle
3 Drowned Catacomb
1 Swamp
Critters
2 Snapcaster Mage
4 Hedron Crab
4 Archive Trap
4 Glimpse the Unthinkable
2 Fraying Sanity
2 Darkness
3 Fatal Push
3 Surgical Extraction
4 Visions of Beyond
3 Mind Funeral
Artifacts
4 Mesmeric Orb
1 Ensnaring Bridge
3 Crypt Incursion
2 Damnation
1 Grafdigger's Cage
4 Jace's Phantasm
1 Thoughtseize
4 Set Adrift
Aggro: Naya Burn RWG
Combo: Scapeshift RG
Control: Jeskai Control UWR
Legacy
Control: Miracles UW
Aggro: Burn R
Aggro tends to run a fair number of creatures, and Mill has several ways to deal with that. Ensnaring Bridge, Damnation and Crypt Incursion all deal ably with creature based aggro decks.
:0 ) figuring its better than nothing... but thats the only strategy i've come up with so far...