I agree, the sideboard is way too narrow. I don't think I've ever seen a deck win/top 8 a serious tournament with a sideboard configuration of 4/4/4/3. Modern is just too diverse and you need more cards to cover more matchups.
Ironically, the mill player lost to the Jeskai Control player because Cryptic Command bounced the bridge back to his hand. Welding Jar would have done nothing. After looking at his sideboard of 4x Leyline 1x Surgical and 10x anti creature cards it's not hard to see why he got steamrolled.
Interestingly, the announcer Simon wanted Dario to board in Leyline of the Void which I thought that was interesting as I had never considered that card for the Jeskai matchup. I assume he was correct though.
Also, with his sideboard configuration he can take bridge out after G1 and bring in a fistful of cards that are good in the matchups where bridge is likely bad (2x dismember, 2x set adrift, 1x echoing truth, 1x damnation, 1x devour flesh, 1x crypt incursion, 2x night of souls betrayl).
Wouldn't Mesmeric Orb make Jace's ability literally Ancestral Recall because they would have the ability to mill the top of their deck giving them 3 new cards to look at each activation etc...?
Mesmeric Orb makes Jace's 0 ability utterly worthless except as a way to rid yourself of unwanted cards. You likely will not draw what you put back. A combination of Jace, Orb, and Inquisition of Kozilek or Thoughtseize could be hilarious mind games.
Wouldn't Mesmeric Orb make Jace's ability literally Ancestral Recall because they would have the ability to mill the top of their deck giving them 3 new cards to look at each activation etc...?
It's a fraying sanity build with 4 glimpse/breaking.
No bridges either so it seems like a build to kill by turn 5 (4 if trap triggered). However, the lack of defense other than 3 Push seems to make this a glass cannon build. Extirpate seems off given how tight the early mana curve is.
It's a fraying sanity build with 4 glimpse/breaking.
No bridges either so it seems like a build to kill by turn 5 (4 if trap triggered). However, the lack of defense other than 3 Push seems to make this a glass cannon build. Extirpate seems off given how tight the early mana curve is.
yeah that looks pretty unrefined. 2 thought scour is very random. extirpate over surgical seems odd. only 4 fetch lands is a little light for crab, as is 21 lands overall. sideboard looks really weird - languish? why not damnation? 2 jace's phantasm? lots of 2-of's in the 75 feels super untuned.
The MODO deck does raise some interesting questions.
1 - Is it better to take a turn off to cast Search for Azcanta or simply mill them with a 2 mana spell, whether Breaking or Manic Scribe?
2 - Is Modern now so fast that Mind Funeral seems too slow for its cost? This build runs 2. The GP version ran 0.
The Thought Scour could be a 1-drop that does work turn one against Serum Visions or an opponent scrying. It does cantrip so it replaces itself. Also, the deck runs 21 lands which seems to mean he needs a much lower curve. By having a ton of 2 mana spells, Thought Scour might fill out his curve better. Any experience with it before?
I have played Thought Scour instead of Hedron Crab in a completely creatureless build but found it to be lacking and Crab to be uncuttable.
I don't think taking a turn off for Search for Azcanta to be worth it. The scry effect is nice, but not worth it when the game is so fast now. To that end, I'm down to 1 Mind Funeral. I like it as a 1-of, especially in land light matchups or as a 'finisher' when you've milled them down to <20 cards and you can reliably know that they only have 3-5 lands left in their deck.
One point is that any variation of the deck posted here can hit a 5-0, it's really not conclusive.
Each one needs to figure how your deck wants to play.
If you want to play "burn" style or even tempo, Search is no good likely, since taking a whole turn off for a scry is pretty bad. It could be a sideboard option against control/grindy matches at most.
If you'll be playing a more controlling deck then search is a great card is probably worth it. My point with this approach has always been: control is hard and requires a lot of deck space, and mill as a win condition requires a lot of deck space at well. I think trying to combine them leads to either a bad control deck or a bad mill deck.
In my opinion, if you're playing creatures you want both Crabs and Scribes, either one alone just enables all the removal and will be under performing most times. I'm still fond of the creatureless tempo style, since we can mill them pretty fast, and with Echoing truth/Fatal Push/Memento/Darkness we can cheaply delay their kill enough to get there.
Manic Scribe/Crab are good at delaying as well (scribe mostly with the 3 toughness), from my deck I would cut 4 Memento and 1 Breaking, 1 Scroll, 1 Echoing Truth for a 4/3 split of them. I like the creatureless approach better since it makes it harder for the opponent to interact with us.
Anyway, for any conclusions we should wait until the meta settles from all the Jaces and Bloodbraid elves and see what we will be facing most. I'm pretty optimistic for the deck, I think we will be in a better position than against the previous meta.
The only deck that worries me is the UW control. Their ability to cryptic Snappy back into hand give them essentially 8 Cryptic Commands, which is already 2 cards in one. I'd have to play the matchup, but my guess is the optimal play vs UW Control is to Extirpate Cryptic Command ASAP. From there you have a chance, since they have no real creature threats. If you can then get their Logic Knots, they'll pretty much roll over.
I don't see much else that you cannot handle from a sideboard or Crypt Incursion/Ensnaring Bridge.
The only deck that worries me is the UW control. Their ability to cryptic Snappy back into hand give them essentially 8 Cryptic Commands, which is already 2 cards in one. I'd have to play the matchup, but my guess is the optimal play vs UW Control is to Extirpate Cryptic Command ASAP. From there you have a chance, since they have no real creature threats. If you can then get their Logic Knots, they'll pretty much roll over.
I don't see much else that you cannot handle from a sideboard or Crypt Incursion/Ensnaring Bridge.
UW Control is a pretty good matchup for me. They give us plenty of time and have a ton of dead cards (paths, verdicts, etc...).
Jeskai with the spell snares and lightning bolts to face is a lot scarier, I have a very hard time beating Jeskai, but can usually beat UW without much hassle since I don't play creatures and I can put all my pressure on their countermagic. Field of Ruin deals with colonnade, push with snapcaster, and the echoing truths maindeck are very useful to bounce detention spheres and get them by surprise.
I'm still surprised at 0 Ipnu Rivulets in most builds. Is it just worse than Shelldock Isle? The life loss hurts but being untapped is a big deal.
I think that's the card to close out against control.
I play it as a 1of and am happy with it. It's helped close some games, or hit some card I really want to surgical. The life loss hasn't come up really, and having it tap for U and enter untapped is key. It is certainly less important than Shelldock, but it is useful. I also like that it's instant speed, so it
is another out to the Academy Ruins "lock".
If you play Hedron Crab you probably want Oboro instead, since you shouldn't get too low on basics, we run 4 Fields of Ruin and the Crabs will get pathed in a lot of matches.
I faced UW miracles/control with my UB mill build. I moved over my 2 extirpate from the side and also have 2 surgical in the main.
It was a bit hard for him to set up his miracles as Mesmeric Orb was making sure that he was milling the top cards of his library after brainstorming. My biggest concern at first was trying to not let Jace Ult.
Detention Sphere came in and got rid of my orbs, but I managed to draw into a Set Adrift targeting Jace. In response, he Snapped into negate, I cast Extirpate targeting negate stop him from countering.
I had a couple bad draws after (kept drawing Hedron crabs!) and then he beat me with Celestial Colonnade with 3 cards left in his deck.
Against UW control/miracles they'll be close matches as long as we can hold a extirpate/surgical for those kind of moments.
Mesmeric Orb creates a fun subgame when opponents Jace-Fateseal you when you have nothing tapped. The first time they do it and leave something on top, I like to tap a land to mill 1 card and get a fresh draw. Pay attention to how they react to this play. If they seem surprised by your maneuver, then the second time they do it and leave something on top, don't tap anything and just draw it. More often than not, the first time will mill away a useless card and the second time will let you draw a good one. If the situation comes up a 3rd time, probably best to tap something to mill it away in case they have tried to double-cross you by leaving a bad card there and hoping you will just draw it like last time. Even if it's a decent card, you'll at least get a fresh unknown draw.
It has Gravestorm, allowing it to quickly become a Sadistic Sacrament after a hard Mesmeric Orbing, or if they walk into an Archive Trap on your turn - you got them for any 14 cards (fetchland) or 15 (Field of Ruin/Ghost Quarter). I'm re-evaluating this card as a game 1 back-breaker on T3, and then board it out.
EDIT: I'm leaving this as a reminder of why you do not evaluate cards at 4 AM while sick and delirious. *facepalm*
Is Infinite Obliteration worth having in the sideboard as a counter to Emrakul? Removing him before he is played.
Against Emrakul, The Aeons Torn decks, I usually find it best to race to get them to mill Emrakul so you can exile it as soon as it hits the grave before it is cheated out/played. But the shuffle trigger is our greatest enemy and usually I lose game 1 to Emrakul decks.
If you're running white, Rest in Peace is your friend assuming they don't bounce it. If you want to seriously get rid of it before its played/milled you can run Hide // Seek.
didn't really keep notes of game specifics, but here are the matches
Round 1: 2-1 vs Eldrazi Tron
Round 2: 2-0 vs U/W Miracles
Round 3: 2-0 vs R/G Eldrazi
Round 4: 2-0 vs R/G Ponza
Round 5: 2-1 vs B/G Tron
Round 6: 0-2 vs Living End
Round 7: 2-0 vs R/G Ponza
Round 8: 1-2 vs Jund
Round 9: 2-0 vs Counters Company
Round 10: 0-2 vs Storm
The Living End and Storm matchups are pretty awful and nearly unwinnable without a very good draw. The Round 8 loss against Jund really stung - Game 3 keep 2 fetchland, oboro, watery grave, ensnaring bridge, hedron crab, glimpse... Crab got hit with Abrupt Decay immediately. Glimpsed on turn 2. He Thoughtseize and took my Bridge turn 3. I drew a land from my deck every turn from turn 2-6 and died to a 4/5 Tarmogoyf and Dark Confidant attacking me turns 5, 6, and 7.
All in all, I was happy with my list. I might change the Duress to something else. I expected more UW/x control and thought the Duress would be key at keeping their planeswalkers off the board and clearing counters from their hand to let me land key spells (mesmeric orb being the biggest priority)
I wouldn't beat yourself up over the duress call. You only have 15 cards. You can obviously make the Living End and Storm matchups better with more grave hate and it's ok that you didn't.
Congrats on the finish.
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Interestingly, the announcer Simon wanted Dario to board in Leyline of the Void which I thought that was interesting as I had never considered that card for the Jeskai matchup. I assume he was correct though.
Also, with his sideboard configuration he can take bridge out after G1 and bring in a fistful of cards that are good in the matchups where bridge is likely bad (2x dismember, 2x set adrift, 1x echoing truth, 1x damnation, 1x devour flesh, 1x crypt incursion, 2x night of souls betrayl).
Wouldn't Mesmeric Orb make Jace's ability literally Ancestral Recall because they would have the ability to mill the top of their deck giving them 3 new cards to look at each activation etc...?
G Green Stompy
RG Shamans
UB Mill
UG Infect
WUBRG Slivers!
https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/mtgo-standings/competitive-modern-constructed-league-2018-02-20#decklists
It's a fraying sanity build with 4 glimpse/breaking.
No bridges either so it seems like a build to kill by turn 5 (4 if trap triggered). However, the lack of defense other than 3 Push seems to make this a glass cannon build. Extirpate seems off given how tight the early mana curve is.
yeah that looks pretty unrefined. 2 thought scour is very random. extirpate over surgical seems odd. only 4 fetch lands is a little light for crab, as is 21 lands overall. sideboard looks really weird - languish? why not damnation? 2 jace's phantasm? lots of 2-of's in the 75 feels super untuned.
1 - Is it better to take a turn off to cast Search for Azcanta or simply mill them with a 2 mana spell, whether Breaking or Manic Scribe?
2 - Is Modern now so fast that Mind Funeral seems too slow for its cost? This build runs 2. The GP version ran 0.
The Thought Scour could be a 1-drop that does work turn one against Serum Visions or an opponent scrying. It does cantrip so it replaces itself. Also, the deck runs 21 lands which seems to mean he needs a much lower curve. By having a ton of 2 mana spells, Thought Scour might fill out his curve better. Any experience with it before?
I don't think taking a turn off for Search for Azcanta to be worth it. The scry effect is nice, but not worth it when the game is so fast now. To that end, I'm down to 1 Mind Funeral. I like it as a 1-of, especially in land light matchups or as a 'finisher' when you've milled them down to <20 cards and you can reliably know that they only have 3-5 lands left in their deck.
G Green Stompy
RG Shamans
UB Mill
UG Infect
WUBRG Slivers!
Each one needs to figure how your deck wants to play.
If you want to play "burn" style or even tempo, Search is no good likely, since taking a whole turn off for a scry is pretty bad. It could be a sideboard option against control/grindy matches at most.
If you'll be playing a more controlling deck then search is a great card is probably worth it. My point with this approach has always been: control is hard and requires a lot of deck space, and mill as a win condition requires a lot of deck space at well. I think trying to combine them leads to either a bad control deck or a bad mill deck.
In my opinion, if you're playing creatures you want both Crabs and Scribes, either one alone just enables all the removal and will be under performing most times. I'm still fond of the creatureless tempo style, since we can mill them pretty fast, and with Echoing truth/Fatal Push/Memento/Darkness we can cheaply delay their kill enough to get there.
Manic Scribe/Crab are good at delaying as well (scribe mostly with the 3 toughness), from my deck I would cut 4 Memento and 1 Breaking, 1 Scroll, 1 Echoing Truth for a 4/3 split of them. I like the creatureless approach better since it makes it harder for the opponent to interact with us.
Anyway, for any conclusions we should wait until the meta settles from all the Jaces and Bloodbraid elves and see what we will be facing most. I'm pretty optimistic for the deck, I think we will be in a better position than against the previous meta.
I don't see much else that you cannot handle from a sideboard or Crypt Incursion/Ensnaring Bridge.
I think that's the card to close out against control.
UW Control is a pretty good matchup for me. They give us plenty of time and have a ton of dead cards (paths, verdicts, etc...).
Jeskai with the spell snares and lightning bolts to face is a lot scarier, I have a very hard time beating Jeskai, but can usually beat UW without much hassle since I don't play creatures and I can put all my pressure on their countermagic. Field of Ruin deals with colonnade, push with snapcaster, and the echoing truths maindeck are very useful to bounce detention spheres and get them by surprise.
I play it as a 1of and am happy with it. It's helped close some games, or hit some card I really want to surgical. The life loss hasn't come up really, and having it tap for U and enter untapped is key. It is certainly less important than Shelldock, but it is useful. I also like that it's instant speed, so it
is another out to the Academy Ruins "lock".
If you play Hedron Crab you probably want Oboro instead, since you shouldn't get too low on basics, we run 4 Fields of Ruin and the Crabs will get pathed in a lot of matches.
It was a bit hard for him to set up his miracles as Mesmeric Orb was making sure that he was milling the top cards of his library after brainstorming. My biggest concern at first was trying to not let Jace Ult.
Detention Sphere came in and got rid of my orbs, but I managed to draw into a Set Adrift targeting Jace. In response, he Snapped into negate, I cast Extirpate targeting negate stop him from countering.
I had a couple bad draws after (kept drawing Hedron crabs!) and then he beat me with Celestial Colonnade with 3 cards left in his deck.
Against UW control/miracles they'll be close matches as long as we can hold a extirpate/surgical for those kind of moments.
UR Niv-Mizzet, The Firemind
WUR Narset's Coinflip Casino
Modern
UB Mill
It costs 2C and B, so its easier to cast.
It has Gravestorm, allowing it to quickly become a Sadistic Sacrament after a hard Mesmeric Orbing, or if they walk into an Archive Trap on your turn - you got them for any 14 cards (fetchland) or 15 (Field of Ruin/Ghost Quarter). I'm re-evaluating this card as a game 1 back-breaker on T3, and then board it out.
EDIT: I'm leaving this as a reminder of why you do not evaluate cards at 4 AM while sick and delirious. *facepalm*
Against Emrakul, The Aeons Torn decks, I usually find it best to race to get them to mill Emrakul so you can exile it as soon as it hits the grave before it is cheated out/played. But the shuffle trigger is our greatest enemy and usually I lose game 1 to Emrakul decks.
Game 2, either Ravenous Trap or Nihil Spellbomb are good options to take from the sideboard.
If you're running white, Rest in Peace is your friend assuming they don't bounce it. If you want to seriously get rid of it before its played/milled you can run Hide // Seek.
UR Niv-Mizzet, The Firemind
WUR Narset's Coinflip Casino
Modern
UB Mill
didn't really keep notes of game specifics, but here are the matches
Round 1: 2-1 vs Eldrazi Tron
Round 2: 2-0 vs U/W Miracles
Round 3: 2-0 vs R/G Eldrazi
Round 4: 2-0 vs R/G Ponza
Round 5: 2-1 vs B/G Tron
Round 6: 0-2 vs Living End
Round 7: 2-0 vs R/G Ponza
Round 8: 1-2 vs Jund
Round 9: 2-0 vs Counters Company
Round 10: 0-2 vs Storm
The Living End and Storm matchups are pretty awful and nearly unwinnable without a very good draw. The Round 8 loss against Jund really stung - Game 3 keep 2 fetchland, oboro, watery grave, ensnaring bridge, hedron crab, glimpse... Crab got hit with Abrupt Decay immediately. Glimpsed on turn 2. He Thoughtseize and took my Bridge turn 3. I drew a land from my deck every turn from turn 2-6 and died to a 4/5 Tarmogoyf and Dark Confidant attacking me turns 5, 6, and 7.
All in all, I was happy with my list. I might change the Duress to something else. I expected more UW/x control and thought the Duress would be key at keeping their planeswalkers off the board and clearing counters from their hand to let me land key spells (mesmeric orb being the biggest priority)
Congrats on the finish.