I agree with both, 22 lands is the minimum. If I were to go to 23, Urborg or another Ipnu Rivulet would be the addition for me. Rivulet is a backup mill spell when you flood, so you don't get that low on mill cards.
I always liked the discard plan, just never found the way of making it work without losing consistency. As far as counterspells go, for maindeck I would definitely pick Remand, it's a tempo counterspell which is exactly what we need. It catches everything and replaces itself. You don't want to get stuck with a Negate while they play thought knot or a Gideon, or a Thalia, etc... G2 you can board in relevant counterspells if you go with a permission sideboard (this could be interesting, a sideboard "Merfolk style", another tempo deck, with relevant counterspells and some gy hate)
Regarding the sideboard changes, I can see myself cutting the Crypt Incursions (almost as blasfemous as cutting the Crabs, I know) or Damnations, since hopefully we have those matches covered with memento, and maybe adding Mind Funeral for extra mill cards against control? Or Jace, Vryn Prodigy, since g2 they should've trimmed their creature removal...
On another note, I recorded 1 match yesterday to try and see how that worked.
First time recording so it has some flaws, haha. You can't actually see the whole screen, but you can see enough so as to not miss anything, and when uploading it to youtube the sound ended up just a tiny bit ahead of the video (not enough to be annoying luckily).
Anyway, the match at least was an interesting one, against UW control. It was just a Tournament Practice room match, but it shows some good points for several of the choices I made maindeck (it even seems staged, haha)
Here it is, let me know your thoughts, I'll try to do another one sometime so we can discuss the games if someone is interested
Mind Funeral is bad vs control decks due to the high land count. Ashiok is really good vs control.
Also for sideboard you could shave like 1 copy of Damnation and 1 bridge etc... rather than just completely cut a card.
Snapcaster might be an interesting sideboard card as like a 2x. It's basically the best blue card in modern and is never really bad in any matchup as opposed to cards like Needle, Bridge, Spellbomb, etc... I know Keith and maybe a few other posters play it mainboard.
Blood Moon especially ruins the day for Esper, it's what sent me back to UB. Instead of playing cards to fight it, UB lets us avoid it if we know it's coming by fetching up our basics. The best way to fight it in Esper is to run a basic plains, which always sucks to draw into. I might try UB with 1 Godless Shrine, and some Fragmentize in the board to handle Leylines and Wheel of Sun and Moon though. It sucks how much those 3 cards (and Emrakul) are such a hard defeat against us
Lots of good discussion and testing here. I haven't had a chance to get too much testing in lately (my last game I played, my buddy mulled to 4 and 5 just to find his Wheel of Sun and Moon for G2 and G3 respectively after I beat him G1... fair play I guess? I just scooped to it since I guess winning was more important than playing the game to him).
My most recent deck I removed the Orbs and put more Mill threats in (4x Mind Funeral) to have a little more velocity and some more redundancy against hand disruption. I've been on 21 lands but I'm definitely going back up to 22, which I think is the right number, but could see 23 as well. If you can drop Fraying Sanity on T3 it's pretty much a win by T4 or T5, so getting that land count up is important. If I were running 23 lands, I'd definitely go for 4 Snappies, but as is I'm on 2. He's just SO good for whatever you need at any given time.
I tried the crabs and still underwhelmed so will probably go back to creatureless. It's funny, I played the GP in February with my creatureless list and had a lot of people telling me I needed crabs in. I've tried Crabs and Scribes and Phantasms (and all 3!) and think creatureless, aside from Snap, is probably still the way to go.
Quartz, since you've had such success with the Scroll, I can't help but force myself to try it. It just seems so slow though! 2 mana sorcery speed to tutor something up that isn't even usually a mill spell just seems like it wastes a whole turn. But silver bullet for draw or sideboard answers has value for G2 and G3. Might be something for the board, since G2 and G3 tend to be slower with both players having sideboard answers in the deck.
I'm also not running either Memento or Crypt Incursion at the moment. I read Pesistratos' description again and thought that running Darkness was worth a legit test. being a 1 drop it's quite the tempo play, and with Snapcasters around it's still relatively cheap to save your life against creatures for a turn. For B it's also cheap enough to play Glimpse or Funeral while holding up mana for it.
I'd post a whole decklist but right now I've got it tight with a bunch of 4-ofs. Glimpse, Mind Funeral, Archive, Visions, Push, Darkness, Fraying Sanity, and Snapcaster, with 3 of Inquisition and Surgical. 22 Lands but will probably find a way to get up to 23. With no Crabs I think I might swap Oboro for Urborg too...
One card that I've toyed with in the sideboard but haven't really cast is Sadistic Sacrament. I think it's worthwhile since it lets you strip what you want from your opponents library. What I don't like about Infinite Obliteration and (what's the non-artifact one that's similar from a recent set?) is that you have to name the card before you search. Sacrament lets you find whatever you want, as well as see what your opponent brought in against you from the board (which is usually a 2 or 3 of anyway) so it's an effective wipeout and never whiffs. BBB is a heavy coloured cost, but it's a clean answer that's important against the cards that are such a hard lock against us... assuming they're not already down or in hand is all. Plus it's a little slow is the biggest downside. Any other thoughts on it or replacements otherwise?
It's pretty wild how different folks have different experiences with cards. I run four of the crab and always love to see one in my opening hand, it's at least an 80% mill 9 for 1 mana. Whereas Fraying Sanity, I run two of, and never want to see the things and frequently board them out in favor of other options. I'm routinely winning on turn 4 and 5 based on the strength of orb and crab alone. I can see running UB main alone due to the Blood Moon issue, and will be evaluating my list over the next few days of testing.
Quartz, I liked the video, and it made it pretty obvious how solid the Field of Ruin can be. Basically, Archive Trap turns into an extra powerful, instant speed glimpse. Your voice was pretty quiet, but other than that it was very helpful.
I've been playing the Negates because I don't have any really good answers to Planeswalkers, and I've never been a fan of Remand in decks that weren't full control. I've just drawn into nothing off Remand too often... I can certainly see trying Spell Pierce or Mana Leak though.
Blood Moon and Leyline of Sanctity are not so bad for UB if you have Echoing Truth to play on their end step. Mesmeric Orb works through both as well. They've slowed me down, but they are very possible to play around in a controlling creatureless build, at least in my experience. I've not yet encountered the Wheel of Sun and Moon.
Do you guys ever run anything to force the draw for the kill?
Wistful Thinking or Comparative Analysis seem like they could be good. I've lost some games beforethe next draw step comes around, so I was just curious if this was a problem you'd all thought through already.
The only time that has come up for me is against burn when they kill you in their upkeep with zero cards in library. Generally it's a non factor from my experience.
Do you guys ever run anything to force the draw for the kill?
Wistful Thinking or Comparative Analysis seem like they could be good. I've lost some games beforethe next draw step comes around, so I was just curious if this was a problem you'd all thought through already.
I've considered playing some utility land that would allow that. I went with Ipnu Rivulet for my land 22, but it could've been Cephalid Coliseum.
The draw 3 is nice, it is even a little mill since it's not just 1, and you can target yourself if you have a lot of dead cards or really need some answer. The cost is low and it enters untapped and adds blue mana, so definitely worth trying if you want to have an out of that situation. Geier Reach Sanitarium and one other I don't remember did the job as well, but the coliseum was the only one that seemed interesting.
Writing about it again makes me want to try it myself, haha. Burn has got me once or twice during the upkeep, and a walking ballista was damn close another time.
Blood moon is only annoying because it shuts down Field of Ruin. Again, another scenario where Echoing Truth maindeck + scrolls can be useful, even when it's not the optimum way, you have outs maindeck and multiple ways to get them.
You should always fetch basics, I only fetch shocklands if completely necessary or if there's no risk of blood moon and I'm fetching EOT tapped.
I'm not so scared of Emrakuls or Wheels of Sun and Moon to put cards like Lost Legacy, Infinite Obliteration and such (plus, Wheel of Sun and Moon is often fetched from the sb using glittering wish, so you can't get it beforehand). It's still the same as leyline or any other annoying card, we have the answers, we need to play with them in mind in those matches.
Cephalid Coliseum is not legal in Modern. (Right?) Otherwise it would be totally perfect, but I hadn't seen the Geier Reach Sanitarium. I will definitely be trying that.
Mikokoro, Center of the Sea is the other one you were thinking of? I'd seen that before but forgot all about it.
My bad on Cephalid Coliseum! You're right, of course. I only returned to Magic and started playing Modern right before Amonkhet, I am still not used to most of my cards not being legal in "Extended", haha.
I want players to offer me their opinions on the sideboard cards: Echoing Truth and Set Adrift. Personally, I have only ever used Set Adrift - with mixed results. But, I never understood how Echoing Truth could be better because the target card(s), eg. Leyline of Sanctity, returns the next turn when the opponent recasts it. Echoing Truth seems to offer you a one round window to win, while Set Adrift keeps the milled card out of the opponent's hand forever.
What do others see as the pros and the cons to these two cards, and when are they most effective against, say, Leyline of Sanctity?
The assumption with Leyline at least, is that the opponent can't cast it in the first place. Also Echoing Truth is 2 cmc rather than 6 (or delved), either way you're able to cast a Truth a good bit quicker than a Set Adrift.
Off the top of my head, several important things add value to Echoing Truth.
One is consistency. You don't need to have 5 cards in your yard, even if that's easy, it's similar to extirpate vs surgical. There will be a scenario when you want to casts it and need a couple more cards in your yard. Echoing Truth is always 1U. You also don't always mill after Set Adrift or have an Orb in play and the opponent has something tapped, so Set Adrift being always a "destroy target nonland permanent" is not true.
You will get the chance to bounce 2 copies of something end of turn and play surgical extraction on it afterwards from time to time if that helps, haha. It certainly feels great.
Another one is instant speed. A lot of times you only need one turn out of the lock to win. Casting it end of step to bounce a blood moon for example is often enough to activate Field of Ruin and finish the game with traps.
Versatility is another one for sure. Instant speed bounce is a lot better for tempo plays than sorcery speed bounce, you can bounce a cranial plating, or an attacking creature, or play many other lines that might be needed to survive.
Another one is the "all of the same name". This is specially good against lingering souls/empty the warrens/soldier tokens, as well as multiple leylines, but it will also come up bouncing 2 Tarmogoyfs, or monastery swifspears or things like that.
Yet another one is being able to fetch it using merchant scroll since I started playing that in place of Trapmaker Snare. That equals 3 additional copies, increasing my odds of drawing an out to leyline when I need it.
Set adrift is not bad at all, I play it in the sideboard as well, but Echoing Truth provides some extra functionalities that make it worth a lot to me.
I'm the Mill Player who was on coverage and ended 42nd at GP Birmingham.
My list is in the article here
(The Dispel in the sideboard should be a second Set Adrift, but I lost one and couldn't buy one on site!)
I used to play the all in "burn" style with 4 Breaking etc., but a few months ago switched to the somewhat slower style with 4 Orbs, 4 Scribe, and have never looked back.
Manic Scribe in particular is a great card in this deck - aside from the obvious continuous milling (since with 4 Orb it's pretty easy to get delirium), having 3 toughness is excellent - it gives you a chance against decks that would otherwise just run you over, and slows down more controlling decks that want to get in some Snapcaster beats, helping you to mill them out with itself/Orbs.
The other key thing about Scribe & Orb is that they don't target, so you still have game when the opponent has a Leyline in play (which is all too often these days), keeping the milling happening, blocking 2 power creatures, and letting you survive to when you bounce the Leyline (and if they counter your bounce spell, hey ho, more Orb milling).
I see that people are discussing Set Adrift/Echoing Truth; I run both in the SB, but would never go below 2 Echoing Truth. It's an incredibly versatile card, bouncing tokens, buying you extra turns in grindy games (which can make all the difference), answering their sideboard cards (Leyline, Wheel, Blood Moon etc., etc.), and occasionally ruining someone's day by bouncing their Phyrexian Unlife or whatever. That last example obviously doesn't happen often, but it's a good example of why Truth is great - no matter what odd thing your opponent is doing (and let's face it, Modern is full of rogue decks), it almost always gives you some kind of interaction.
I think one of the most important things about Echoing Truth is simply that it's an instant, so you can bounce their Leyline or whatever in their end step and have all your mana next turn to blast them before they can replay it. Also good that it hits multiple copies, as some people will play a second leyline during the game.
I also like Set Adrift for its ability to be "U, destroy target permanent" - I don't think it's a nonbo with Scribe because between fetchlands, Ghost Quarter, the fact that this is a fairly "active" deck, and - crucially - milling yourself with Orbs, taking yourself off Delirium almost never happens. When you're casting it, you probably have at least 10 cards in your own yard, and you only need to leave 3 different ones (Set Adrift being a Sorcery itself).
I'm beginning to realize that Game 1 is a completely different game than games 2 and 3. Game 1 is a must win, because it is the only game we have the element of surprise. Therefore, Game 1 is instant speed. We cannot run sorceries that give away our game plan, like Merchant Scroll. We cannot even run instants that give away information, like the trap fetchers. It also means not running Crabs.
All these cards are great for the sideboard, but I think if we run them main, we lose the one element we have in our favor - surprise.
They should learn we are mill when Archive Trap or Glimpse is put on the stack. I won;t even run Mesmeric Orb on T2 if I am on the play - I'll wait for T3. On the draw, I'll play it T2 if they have 2 or more permanents tapped. For all that we mill aggressively, we also need to attack their graveyard aggressively, with Surgical Extraction and Extirpate. Shred their future draws and eliminate all chances of their coming back. Game 1 is the most winnable game because they don't have the traditional mill defenses yet. We just have to have our Swiss army knife of answers available G1, they being Ensnaring Bridge and Profane Memento/Crypt Incursion.
Game 2 and 3 being an utterly different game, one should have an aggressive sideboard. Assume they have the appropriate hate in their colors, and play around it. This means, vs white, assuming they have Leyline of Sanctity, Disenchant, and so on. Trade out the pieces you do not need, into pieces you do. G2 is the time for Crab and Phantasm, for Merchant Scrolling into answers like Echoing Truth. We have no more surprises. Now we can run a lighter ship on Surgical/Extirpate and Memento/Bridge.
Of course, I'm an advocate for sideboarding extensively into the worst matchups expected in the meta. This means 4 Hurkyls Recall, 4 Melira, and so on.
The element of surprise is not really during the first game where they don't know what deck you're playing, because that is only going to last for a few turns, or no turns if they have a Thoughtseize or similar card. There is, however, a huge advantage in that most people don't have a lot of experience playing/practicing against mill, and so don't really know what to expect. The only piece of surprise I would say we really have is the Archive Trap following a Ghost Quarter, but Field of Ruin, definitely gets around that.
Last night I played at a new shop (I just moved), using this list. https://deckstats.net/decks/19884/805334-millbot I went with three Ghost Quarters because it was a new place so I figured I could get everyone with the search/trap combo, and I did. But next week, I won't be able to rely on that 'mistake' at all.
Another 'mistake' many people made against me last night, just because they are not familiar with my deck, was leaving in removal because they thought I was going to board into Phantasms, etc. I can't rely on that happening again either, but after a few weeks, I probably will start boarding them in to keep everyone on their toes.
A little battle report:
Modern Night at Peninsula Games in Fair Haven, NJ, 18 players. I played with many of these guys in the past, so it was great to see them all again.
Match 1 vs Naya Burn, 2-0
I started off game one with Fatal Push to the Goblin Guide and some IoKs, which just made it too hard for him to race. Game two the Crypt Incursion won the game.
Match 2 vs Mono-Blue As Foretold/Living End, 1-2
I had never played this deck before, and so my opponent had the advantage I described above, where I didn't know what he was up to or how to play against it.
I got through game one with a win just by getting some lucky Surgical Extractions through the counter magic. Game two was a long grind with Mesmeric Orb vs the Leyline of Sanctity. I didn't think about side-boarding the right way, so I didn't bring in the Echoing Truth. I almost held out long enough, with two orbs going, but eventually I lost to the beats of things coming back from the yard.
I lost the third game to a pile of Remand and Dispel that blocked multiple attempts to Surgical the Living End that I milled into the graveyard. Ban Dispel!! (just kidding.)
Match 3 vs Temur Moon, 2-0
I started game one with a Ghost Quarter into two Archive Traps, and a Surgical Extraction on one of the dual lands, I think Steam Vents. This left my opponent stuck in a little bit of a prison and I was able to mill the rest of the deck. This was one of the games where my opponent said, "Well, I shouldn't have searched..." and won't play into that again.
Game two was a little more fair, with the orbs doing some work alongside Fraying Sanity, I had a couple key Echoing Truths to bounce gigantic Tarmogoyfs that would have quickly ended the game.
Match 4 vs UW Control, 2-0
I feel like we have a very strong match up against this deck as long as we can bounce or counter the Gideon of the Trials and his terrible emblem.
I have been using Surgical Extractions after Ghost Quarters to remove the lands from the deck, usually, Celestial Colonnade and then Hallowed Fountain or Glacial Fortress. This approach has slowed my UW opponents down enough that they are stuck just holding up responses, and not really able to cast their planeswalkers while holding up counters.
I won the second game of this match by drawing into double Archive Trap off Visions of Beyond and using Ghost Quarter to cast them both for 0. This was another example of, "Well, I shouldn't have searched..."
All in all it was a fun night and I was happy to be back in my old Stomping Grounds playing mill and seeing a bunch of old magic buddies.
I always liked the discard plan, just never found the way of making it work without losing consistency. As far as counterspells go, for maindeck I would definitely pick Remand, it's a tempo counterspell which is exactly what we need. It catches everything and replaces itself. You don't want to get stuck with a Negate while they play thought knot or a Gideon, or a Thalia, etc... G2 you can board in relevant counterspells if you go with a permission sideboard (this could be interesting, a sideboard "Merfolk style", another tempo deck, with relevant counterspells and some gy hate)
Regarding the sideboard changes, I can see myself cutting the Crypt Incursions (almost as blasfemous as cutting the Crabs, I know) or Damnations, since hopefully we have those matches covered with memento, and maybe adding Mind Funeral for extra mill cards against control? Or Jace, Vryn Prodigy, since g2 they should've trimmed their creature removal...
On another note, I recorded 1 match yesterday to try and see how that worked.
First time recording so it has some flaws, haha. You can't actually see the whole screen, but you can see enough so as to not miss anything, and when uploading it to youtube the sound ended up just a tiny bit ahead of the video (not enough to be annoying luckily).
Anyway, the match at least was an interesting one, against UW control. It was just a Tournament Practice room match, but it shows some good points for several of the choices I made maindeck (it even seems staged, haha)
Here it is, let me know your thoughts, I'll try to do another one sometime so we can discuss the games if someone is interested
https://youtu.be/470yEWA_Q18
Also for sideboard you could shave like 1 copy of Damnation and 1 bridge etc... rather than just completely cut a card.
Snapcaster might be an interesting sideboard card as like a 2x. It's basically the best blue card in modern and is never really bad in any matchup as opposed to cards like Needle, Bridge, Spellbomb, etc... I know Keith and maybe a few other posters play it mainboard.
Blood Moon especially ruins the day for Esper, it's what sent me back to UB. Instead of playing cards to fight it, UB lets us avoid it if we know it's coming by fetching up our basics. The best way to fight it in Esper is to run a basic plains, which always sucks to draw into. I might try UB with 1 Godless Shrine, and some Fragmentize in the board to handle Leylines and Wheel of Sun and Moon though. It sucks how much those 3 cards (and Emrakul) are such a hard defeat against us
Lots of good discussion and testing here. I haven't had a chance to get too much testing in lately (my last game I played, my buddy mulled to 4 and 5 just to find his Wheel of Sun and Moon for G2 and G3 respectively after I beat him G1... fair play I guess? I just scooped to it since I guess winning was more important than playing the game to him).
My most recent deck I removed the Orbs and put more Mill threats in (4x Mind Funeral) to have a little more velocity and some more redundancy against hand disruption. I've been on 21 lands but I'm definitely going back up to 22, which I think is the right number, but could see 23 as well. If you can drop Fraying Sanity on T3 it's pretty much a win by T4 or T5, so getting that land count up is important. If I were running 23 lands, I'd definitely go for 4 Snappies, but as is I'm on 2. He's just SO good for whatever you need at any given time.
I tried the crabs and still underwhelmed so will probably go back to creatureless. It's funny, I played the GP in February with my creatureless list and had a lot of people telling me I needed crabs in. I've tried Crabs and Scribes and Phantasms (and all 3!) and think creatureless, aside from Snap, is probably still the way to go.
Quartz, since you've had such success with the Scroll, I can't help but force myself to try it. It just seems so slow though! 2 mana sorcery speed to tutor something up that isn't even usually a mill spell just seems like it wastes a whole turn. But silver bullet for draw or sideboard answers has value for G2 and G3. Might be something for the board, since G2 and G3 tend to be slower with both players having sideboard answers in the deck.
I'm also not running either Memento or Crypt Incursion at the moment. I read Pesistratos' description again and thought that running Darkness was worth a legit test. being a 1 drop it's quite the tempo play, and with Snapcasters around it's still relatively cheap to save your life against creatures for a turn. For B it's also cheap enough to play Glimpse or Funeral while holding up mana for it.
I'd post a whole decklist but right now I've got it tight with a bunch of 4-ofs. Glimpse, Mind Funeral, Archive, Visions, Push, Darkness, Fraying Sanity, and Snapcaster, with 3 of Inquisition and Surgical. 22 Lands but will probably find a way to get up to 23. With no Crabs I think I might swap Oboro for Urborg too...
One card that I've toyed with in the sideboard but haven't really cast is Sadistic Sacrament. I think it's worthwhile since it lets you strip what you want from your opponents library. What I don't like about Infinite Obliteration and (what's the non-artifact one that's similar from a recent set?) is that you have to name the card before you search. Sacrament lets you find whatever you want, as well as see what your opponent brought in against you from the board (which is usually a 2 or 3 of anyway) so it's an effective wipeout and never whiffs. BBB is a heavy coloured cost, but it's a clean answer that's important against the cards that are such a hard lock against us... assuming they're not already down or in hand is all. Plus it's a little slow is the biggest downside. Any other thoughts on it or replacements otherwise?
I've been playing the Negates because I don't have any really good answers to Planeswalkers, and I've never been a fan of Remand in decks that weren't full control. I've just drawn into nothing off Remand too often... I can certainly see trying Spell Pierce or Mana Leak though.
Blood Moon and Leyline of Sanctity are not so bad for UB if you have Echoing Truth to play on their end step. Mesmeric Orb works through both as well. They've slowed me down, but they are very possible to play around in a controlling creatureless build, at least in my experience. I've not yet encountered the Wheel of Sun and Moon.
Baleful Strix would be amazing!
Modern: URW Madcap Experiment
Pauper: MonoU Tempo Delver
My EDH Commanders:
Aminatou, The Fateshifter UBW
Azami, Lady of Scrolls U
Mikaeus, the Unhallowed B
Edric, Spymaster of Trest UG
Glissa, the Traitor BG
Arcum Dagsson U
Wistful Thinking or Comparative Analysis seem like they could be good. I've lost some games beforethe next draw step comes around, so I was just curious if this was a problem you'd all thought through already.
I've considered playing some utility land that would allow that. I went with Ipnu Rivulet for my land 22, but it could've been Cephalid Coliseum.
The draw 3 is nice, it is even a little mill since it's not just 1, and you can target yourself if you have a lot of dead cards or really need some answer. The cost is low and it enters untapped and adds blue mana, so definitely worth trying if you want to have an out of that situation.
Geier Reach Sanitarium and one other I don't remember did the job as well, but the coliseum was the only one that seemed interesting.
Writing about it again makes me want to try it myself, haha. Burn has got me once or twice during the upkeep, and a walking ballista was damn close another time.
Blood moon is only annoying because it shuts down Field of Ruin. Again, another scenario where Echoing Truth maindeck + scrolls can be useful, even when it's not the optimum way, you have outs maindeck and multiple ways to get them.
You should always fetch basics, I only fetch shocklands if completely necessary or if there's no risk of blood moon and I'm fetching EOT tapped.
I'm not so scared of Emrakuls or Wheels of Sun and Moon to put cards like Lost Legacy, Infinite Obliteration and such (plus, Wheel of Sun and Moon is often fetched from the sb using glittering wish, so you can't get it beforehand). It's still the same as leyline or any other annoying card, we have the answers, we need to play with them in mind in those matches.
Mikokoro, Center of the Sea is the other one you were thinking of? I'd seen that before but forgot all about it.
Thanks for the help!
My bad on Cephalid Coliseum! You're right, of course. I only returned to Magic and started playing Modern right before Amonkhet, I am still not used to most of my cards not being legal in "Extended", haha.
What do others see as the pros and the cons to these two cards, and when are they most effective against, say, Leyline of Sanctity?
One is consistency. You don't need to have 5 cards in your yard, even if that's easy, it's similar to extirpate vs surgical. There will be a scenario when you want to casts it and need a couple more cards in your yard. Echoing Truth is always 1U. You also don't always mill after Set Adrift or have an Orb in play and the opponent has something tapped, so Set Adrift being always a "destroy target nonland permanent" is not true.
You will get the chance to bounce 2 copies of something end of turn and play surgical extraction on it afterwards from time to time if that helps, haha. It certainly feels great.
Another one is instant speed. A lot of times you only need one turn out of the lock to win. Casting it end of step to bounce a blood moon for example is often enough to activate Field of Ruin and finish the game with traps.
Versatility is another one for sure. Instant speed bounce is a lot better for tempo plays than sorcery speed bounce, you can bounce a cranial plating, or an attacking creature, or play many other lines that might be needed to survive.
Another one is the "all of the same name". This is specially good against lingering souls/empty the warrens/soldier tokens, as well as multiple leylines, but it will also come up bouncing 2 Tarmogoyfs, or monastery swifspears or things like that.
Yet another one is being able to fetch it using merchant scroll since I started playing that in place of Trapmaker Snare. That equals 3 additional copies, increasing my odds of drawing an out to leyline when I need it.
Set adrift is not bad at all, I play it in the sideboard as well, but Echoing Truth provides some extra functionalities that make it worth a lot to me.
All these cards are great for the sideboard, but I think if we run them main, we lose the one element we have in our favor - surprise.
They should learn we are mill when Archive Trap or Glimpse is put on the stack. I won;t even run Mesmeric Orb on T2 if I am on the play - I'll wait for T3. On the draw, I'll play it T2 if they have 2 or more permanents tapped. For all that we mill aggressively, we also need to attack their graveyard aggressively, with Surgical Extraction and Extirpate. Shred their future draws and eliminate all chances of their coming back. Game 1 is the most winnable game because they don't have the traditional mill defenses yet. We just have to have our Swiss army knife of answers available G1, they being Ensnaring Bridge and Profane Memento/Crypt Incursion.
Game 2 and 3 being an utterly different game, one should have an aggressive sideboard. Assume they have the appropriate hate in their colors, and play around it. This means, vs white, assuming they have Leyline of Sanctity, Disenchant, and so on. Trade out the pieces you do not need, into pieces you do. G2 is the time for Crab and Phantasm, for Merchant Scrolling into answers like Echoing Truth. We have no more surprises. Now we can run a lighter ship on Surgical/Extirpate and Memento/Bridge.
Of course, I'm an advocate for sideboarding extensively into the worst matchups expected in the meta. This means 4 Hurkyls Recall, 4 Melira, and so on.
Last night I played at a new shop (I just moved), using this list. https://deckstats.net/decks/19884/805334-millbot I went with three Ghost Quarters because it was a new place so I figured I could get everyone with the search/trap combo, and I did. But next week, I won't be able to rely on that 'mistake' at all.
Another 'mistake' many people made against me last night, just because they are not familiar with my deck, was leaving in removal because they thought I was going to board into Phantasms, etc. I can't rely on that happening again either, but after a few weeks, I probably will start boarding them in to keep everyone on their toes.
A little battle report:
Modern Night at Peninsula Games in Fair Haven, NJ, 18 players. I played with many of these guys in the past, so it was great to see them all again.
Match 1 vs Naya Burn, 2-0
I started off game one with Fatal Push to the Goblin Guide and some IoKs, which just made it too hard for him to race. Game two the Crypt Incursion won the game.
Match 2 vs Mono-Blue As Foretold/Living End, 1-2
I had never played this deck before, and so my opponent had the advantage I described above, where I didn't know what he was up to or how to play against it.
I got through game one with a win just by getting some lucky Surgical Extractions through the counter magic. Game two was a long grind with Mesmeric Orb vs the Leyline of Sanctity. I didn't think about side-boarding the right way, so I didn't bring in the Echoing Truth. I almost held out long enough, with two orbs going, but eventually I lost to the beats of things coming back from the yard.
I lost the third game to a pile of Remand and Dispel that blocked multiple attempts to Surgical the Living End that I milled into the graveyard. Ban Dispel!! (just kidding.)
Match 3 vs Temur Moon, 2-0
I started game one with a Ghost Quarter into two Archive Traps, and a Surgical Extraction on one of the dual lands, I think Steam Vents. This left my opponent stuck in a little bit of a prison and I was able to mill the rest of the deck. This was one of the games where my opponent said, "Well, I shouldn't have searched..." and won't play into that again.
Game two was a little more fair, with the orbs doing some work alongside Fraying Sanity, I had a couple key Echoing Truths to bounce gigantic Tarmogoyfs that would have quickly ended the game.
Match 4 vs UW Control, 2-0
I feel like we have a very strong match up against this deck as long as we can bounce or counter the Gideon of the Trials and his terrible emblem.
I have been using Surgical Extractions after Ghost Quarters to remove the lands from the deck, usually, Celestial Colonnade and then Hallowed Fountain or Glacial Fortress. This approach has slowed my UW opponents down enough that they are stuck just holding up responses, and not really able to cast their planeswalkers while holding up counters.
I won the second game of this match by drawing into double Archive Trap off Visions of Beyond and using Ghost Quarter to cast them both for 0. This was another example of, "Well, I shouldn't have searched..."
All in all it was a fun night and I was happy to be back in my old Stomping Grounds playing mill and seeing a bunch of old magic buddies.
I often wonder how effective it would be to aggressively attack a decks mana base.
4 Surgical, 4 Extirpate, 4 Mind Funeral, 4 [[Dimir Charm]] and even Isochron scepter, with the idea of complete mana denial.