I'm finally stoked to see something new come our way. I'd compare it to our version of Doubling Season. I plan to grab a playset and test it out, I'll start with 4 of, but can see it being a 3-of replacing Mesmeric Orbs, as it fills the passive mill slot nicely. My only concern is spending T3 doing nothing.
I quite like that card. Will probably replace my one Memory Erosion, and perhaps one of the 3 Mesmeric Orbs. Costing one more mana and not helping to get around Leylines might be problematic, though.
Unfortunately, Wizards are very cautious about giving mill powerful tools because no one likes seeing their deck getting milled, Wizards probably rates mill strategies as less interactive than draw-go which why we often get mediocre tools. If this was 2 mana, it would've been much more playable. Sill, it is worth trying out.
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Modern
Competitive: GW Hatebears - UG Infect - BGW Liege Rhino
Casual: GR Titan Ramp - BR Aggro
WIP: BUW Control Mill
I think our new toy is utterly insane. Yes, I know a 3-drop is rough in our lists. But let's think it through:
1) They multiply if you get multiples. So if you have 2 out, it's a x4 effect instead of an x3.
2) Curves into Startled Awake, for the other believers out there.
3) You hold up an Archive Trap for this and it goes gangbusters.
So, my only concern is how this alters the normal line of play. Usually I want to hit every archive trap I can hit ASAP. Same with Glimpse once I have the open mana. This rewards setting up your board (early spot removal and maybe a phantasm or crab), dropping the new hotness and then unleashing holy hell upon them. Which kinda slows our normal gameplan. Which depowers which cards?
Visions of beyond - since we're not smashing early like normal, can we get to twenty quickly enough?
Crypt incursion - same issue. This is a "relies on early mill to fuel it so that you can survive to finish the game" kind of card.
I'm sure there's a ton more. I'm high on optimism right now. The point is, I think this is going to become a staple 4-of in a matter of moments after it's released and MAY put mill on the modern map. A shift to more controlly-ness may come with this card.
I'm freaking out. This is gonna be epic. Our time is now.
I'm definitely going to try an approach with 4 of these, using the early turns for disruption (4 Psth, 2 Push, 4 Inquisition, 2 Thoughtseize or 2 Extirpate/Surgical).
Maybe Manic scribe would replace Crab (I know, I love crab too, but scribe can be sort of a wall for several creatures while Crab not, and it's untargeted, I'm hating leylines lately). Or maybe I can go creatureless and bring a couple of Breaking in, to have more firing power once this thing hits the board.
Shelldock isle will be wonderful, since it can be a final shot with almost any mill spell. Double Orb becomes cuadruple orb for our opponents... the more I think about it, the more I like it, haha.
It definitely will be playtested by every mill player around, that's for sure.
TBH, this card makes wanna go with the UB control variation. Ditch cards like Visions of Beyond and all white cards for more reactive cards.
I'm leaning towards something like this:
Obviously, it's not tested and I can't say it will perform better than other variants but Fraying Sanity feels like it would be better suited for late mill strategies.
I'm quite hyped too when I saw that card. Here are the 2 thing that I thinked when I saw it :
- Combo with Traumatisme to deck the enemy (with 1 card left sometimes). However, we don't use Traumatisme because of multiple factor, so we can skip this one.
- Help a lot to play manic scribe in the dimir shell. It add an enchantment type card to the deck to make it easier to trigger delirium, and when paired with Mesmeric orb, help us fill our graves faster to activate the delirium as fast as possible.
Also, about the dead turn 3, it will not be always true. If you run some crab or mesmeric orb, when either are on the board, it will already have some effect the turn it enter on the battlefield. Sure it won't be as good as what we could have done with our mana at turn 3, but at turn 4, it should at least break even with other mill spell for the same mana cost.
In my case, since their is a lot of control player in my area, I plan to replace Mind funeral instead of Mesmeric Orb like some other people mentionned. It have the same CMC, so it will not affect our curve and it will replace one of our less reliable spell.
Turn 1 land, crab
Turn 2 crab, fetch land mill 6
Turn 3 fetch land, mill 6, crack 2 fetch, mill 12 play new card end turn mill 18
42 cards milled in 3 turns plus 7 card opener, 2-3 draw steps, opponent is down under 10 cards left
Can not wait to try it
Your math is a bit off there, as when you end your turn the opponent would mill 12, not 6, as 12 cards hit their graveyard during the turn, making the total cards milled that turn 24, meaning the opponents library will have no more than 3 cards in it.
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Currently Playing:
Standard - Some kind of control
Modern - UB Mill (casual)
EDH - Meren's Grave Shenanigans
TBH, this card makes wanna go with the UB control variation. Ditch cards like Visions of Beyond and all white cards for more reactive cards.
Obviously, it's not tested and I can't say it will perform better than other variants but Fraying Sanity feels like it would be better suited for late mill strategies.
Don't ditch Visions. Ancestral Recall is broken. Even in a straight UB version, you wouldn't ditch it.
I quite hyped by Fraying Sanity as the usual strategy sometimes fells short of just a couple of cards to mill in order to win. I am however concern it is not a mill card by itself so would need added testing before integrating it but probably not as a 4 off
Anyone has already tested it ?
I haven't tested it but I probably will when the set hits MTGO and this is in the dirt-cheap pile. If it cost UB or UU, it would have 100% been playable as an engine. At 2U, it's more of a question mark. I think it's passable on the play where you can T2 Orb into T3 Sanity, staying reasonable confident you won't die on the opponent's T3 and will definitely have enough stuff in their yard to reload with Visions, Incursion for 40+, activate Shelldock, or win outright with Funeral. It seems really risky on the draw; too many Modern decks will run you over with a do-nothing T3 play if they get to untap on T4.
Anybody see the new mill creature Seer of the Last Tomorrow 4 toughness and 3 cmc makes it harder to get rid of out side of path. must have revolt for push or 2 bolts or the like. Makes late land draws a mill spell if you have no crabs in play.
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Modern CEldraziTron, UBMill, GWBogles
Legacy GUInfect, CEldrazi
Standard GRGR Pummeler
Anybody see the new mill creature Seer of the Last Tomorrow 4 toughness and 3 cmc makes it harder to get rid of out side of path. must have revolt for push or 2 bolts or the like. Makes late land draws a mill spell if you have no crabs in play.
That one is just plain bad. Not a chance of even playtesting it for me =P
It's painful, but it enters untapped, taps for blue and could help mill the last few cards of our opponents at instant speed.
I think this could find a place as a 2-of in UB, but I'm not sure if it fits into the already more painful Esper manabase.
I agree that in UB it can certainly find its way as a 2 of or something similar.
Perhaps even Dunes of the dead or Scavenger grounds could be added for versatility/synergy.
I'm currently UB but am debating going back to Esper to get access to Path to Exile in order to (hopefully) be able to turn on Archive Trap more reliably, at least pre-board. I know there's some good sideboard options in Esper colours, but what other options does Esper present to me that I may be overlooking?
I'm thinking it might be good to have some blockers that would help stabilize against creature decks that we often struggle against. Wall of Omens seems decent as a blocker against low to the ground decks. Another option I was debating was Wall of Shards, as it's upkeep doesn't affect us and 2 mana for a 1/8 flying wall seems good. Also the side advantage that it will probably keep most DS players off their DS for the game (or until it's dealt with/pushed). I also run so few creatures that I was thinking Wall of Denial might be worthwhile to play to keep opponents removal turned off.
What else am I overlooking that becomes available to me moving from UB to Esper colours?
I'm currently UB but am debating going back to Esper to get access to Path to Exile in order to (hopefully) be able to turn on Archive Trap more reliably, at least pre-board. I know there's some good sideboard options in Esper colours, but what other options does Esper present to me that I may be overlooking?
I'm thinking it might be good to have some blockers that would help stabilize against creature decks that we often struggle against. Wall of Omens seems decent as a blocker against low to the ground decks. Another option I was debating was Wall of Shards, as it's upkeep doesn't affect us and 2 mana for a 1/8 flying wall seems good. Also the side advantage that it will probably keep most DS players off their DS for the game (or until it's dealt with/pushed). I also run so few creatures that I was thinking Wall of Denial might be worthwhile to play to keep opponents removal turned off.
What else am I overlooking that becomes available to me moving from UB to Esper colours?
I am testing with wall of shards as we speak. I am doing a UB build with white out of the side for disenchant vs leyline of sanctity. still working some of the cards out. I am including the mill desert and fraying sanity in my testing
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Modern CEldraziTron, UBMill, GWBogles
Legacy GUInfect, CEldrazi
Standard GRGR Pummeler
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Competitive: GW Hatebears - UG Infect - BGW Liege Rhino
Casual: GR Titan Ramp - BR Aggro
WIP: BUW Control Mill
CEldraziTron, UBMill, GWBogles
Legacy
GUInfect, CEldrazi
Standard
GRGR Pummeler
1) They multiply if you get multiples. So if you have 2 out, it's a x4 effect instead of an x3.
2) Curves into Startled Awake, for the other believers out there.
3) You hold up an Archive Trap for this and it goes gangbusters.
So, my only concern is how this alters the normal line of play. Usually I want to hit every archive trap I can hit ASAP. Same with Glimpse once I have the open mana. This rewards setting up your board (early spot removal and maybe a phantasm or crab), dropping the new hotness and then unleashing holy hell upon them. Which kinda slows our normal gameplan. Which depowers which cards?
Visions of beyond - since we're not smashing early like normal, can we get to twenty quickly enough?
Crypt incursion - same issue. This is a "relies on early mill to fuel it so that you can survive to finish the game" kind of card.
I'm sure there's a ton more. I'm high on optimism right now. The point is, I think this is going to become a staple 4-of in a matter of moments after it's released and MAY put mill on the modern map. A shift to more controlly-ness may come with this card.
I'm freaking out. This is gonna be epic. Our time is now.
4 year olds can't have accounts... Are their parents aware?
Maybe Manic scribe would replace Crab (I know, I love crab too, but scribe can be sort of a wall for several creatures while Crab not, and it's untargeted, I'm hating leylines lately). Or maybe I can go creatureless and bring a couple of Breaking in, to have more firing power once this thing hits the board.
Shelldock isle will be wonderful, since it can be a final shot with almost any mill spell. Double Orb becomes cuadruple orb for our opponents... the more I think about it, the more I like it, haha.
It definitely will be playtested by every mill player around, that's for sure.
A couple of pages ago is a decklist from a user (can't remember the name, sorry) that has gotten some results.
There's SOME things in common with a lot of the decklists, but as far as a consensus, I would say no.
This is my current one: Esper Mill, but I make small changes almost daily online.
anorgasmicdeath is the user in question. I like the consistency of a 2C manabase over a 3C, but his Esper list looks good. I will check yours out too.
I'm leaning towards something like this:
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Hedron Crab
4 Breaking // Entering
4 Fraying Sanity
4 Thoughtseize
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
Obviously, it's not tested and I can't say it will perform better than other variants but Fraying Sanity feels like it would be better suited for late mill strategies.
Competitive: GW Hatebears - UG Infect - BGW Liege Rhino
Casual: GR Titan Ramp - BR Aggro
WIP: BUW Control Mill
- Combo with Traumatisme to deck the enemy (with 1 card left sometimes). However, we don't use Traumatisme because of multiple factor, so we can skip this one.
- Help a lot to play manic scribe in the dimir shell. It add an enchantment type card to the deck to make it easier to trigger delirium, and when paired with Mesmeric orb, help us fill our graves faster to activate the delirium as fast as possible.
Also, about the dead turn 3, it will not be always true. If you run some crab or mesmeric orb, when either are on the board, it will already have some effect the turn it enter on the battlefield. Sure it won't be as good as what we could have done with our mana at turn 3, but at turn 4, it should at least break even with other mill spell for the same mana cost.
In my case, since their is a lot of control player in my area, I plan to replace Mind funeral instead of Mesmeric Orb like some other people mentionned. It have the same CMC, so it will not affect our curve and it will replace one of our less reliable spell.
Turn 2 crab, fetch land mill 6
Turn 3 fetch land, mill 6, crack 2 fetch, mill 12 play new card end turn mill 18
42 cards milled in 3 turns plus 7 card opener, 2-3 draw steps, opponent is down under 10 cards left
Can not wait to try it
CEldraziTron, UBMill, GWBogles
Legacy
GUInfect, CEldrazi
Standard
GRGR Pummeler
Your math is a bit off there, as when you end your turn the opponent would mill 12, not 6, as 12 cards hit their graveyard during the turn, making the total cards milled that turn 24, meaning the opponents library will have no more than 3 cards in it.
Standard - Some kind of control
Modern - UB Mill (casual)
EDH - Meren's Grave Shenanigans
Don't ditch Visions. Ancestral Recall is broken. Even in a straight UB version, you wouldn't ditch it.
I haven't tested it but I probably will when the set hits MTGO and this is in the dirt-cheap pile. If it cost UB or UU, it would have 100% been playable as an engine. At 2U, it's more of a question mark. I think it's passable on the play where you can T2 Orb into T3 Sanity, staying reasonable confident you won't die on the opponent's T3 and will definitely have enough stuff in their yard to reload with Visions, Incursion for 40+, activate Shelldock, or win outright with Funeral. It seems really risky on the draw; too many Modern decks will run you over with a do-nothing T3 play if they get to untap on T4.
CEldraziTron, UBMill, GWBogles
Legacy
GUInfect, CEldrazi
Standard
GRGR Pummeler
That one is just plain bad. Not a chance of even playtesting it for me =P
I agree that in UB it can certainly find its way as a 2 of or something similar.
Perhaps even Dunes of the dead or Scavenger grounds could be added for versatility/synergy.
I'm currently UB but am debating going back to Esper to get access to Path to Exile in order to (hopefully) be able to turn on Archive Trap more reliably, at least pre-board. I know there's some good sideboard options in Esper colours, but what other options does Esper present to me that I may be overlooking?
I'm thinking it might be good to have some blockers that would help stabilize against creature decks that we often struggle against. Wall of Omens seems decent as a blocker against low to the ground decks. Another option I was debating was Wall of Shards, as it's upkeep doesn't affect us and 2 mana for a 1/8 flying wall seems good. Also the side advantage that it will probably keep most DS players off their DS for the game (or until it's dealt with/pushed). I also run so few creatures that I was thinking Wall of Denial might be worthwhile to play to keep opponents removal turned off.
What else am I overlooking that becomes available to me moving from UB to Esper colours?
I am testing with wall of shards as we speak. I am doing a UB build with white out of the side for disenchant vs leyline of sanctity. still working some of the cards out. I am including the mill desert and fraying sanity in my testing
CEldraziTron, UBMill, GWBogles
Legacy
GUInfect, CEldrazi
Standard
GRGR Pummeler