If memory serves correctly he mentions that the mill players hes talked to refer to esper as being the better version but he just copied JinLin's list for video purposes since it had a solid showing at the GP.
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Some good advice RoknRuiN1 ill have a look into it.
I played another tournament last night.
First round against a rogue deck. First game wasn't too scary till he got a zombie like creature that had +x+x for each creature in all graveyards. It was 10/10 at one stage but I managed to draw into a path to kill it. Seccond game he never got ascendancy and i won fairly easily. Result 2/0
Round two was against naya burn. I kept okish kind of hand game one and didn't have too many answers to the burn. Game two he had a lot of burn hit me in the face and i got him down to about 13 cards. Result 0/2
Round 3 i played against soul sisters. I resolved a ghostly prison on turn 3 against him and another on turn 4. He scooped when he saw the seccond hit. He mentioned he thought he had answers to me leading to game two but was clearly bewildered by the mill and control I was exercising. I resolved a ghoslty prison again on turn 5 and in the end milled him out hard. A favourable match up and probably my most salty opponent for the night. Result 2/0
Fourth and final round was against scapeshift. This is a extremely favourable match up. Not much to say other then he got milled fast. He didn't get scapeshift off ounce and through his searching managed to get 2x archive traps off one turn and 1x off two turns later. Result 2/0
Im happy with how the deck is preforming now. I may drop one lingering souls and one extirpate in my sb to test out leyline of sanctity and besides tweaking the land base im pretty happy with where the core of the deck is atm.
I just got the deck built and have only played it in two tournaments both going 3-1 lost to burn and zoo. I'm currently on U/B Jinlin build.
One idea I have though is switching the watery graves to Sunken Hollow. I understand we may at times lose serious tempo but it also feels bad sometimes to lose that two life so we end up bringing Watery Grave in tapped anyway.
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Modern - BOGLES!, Suicide Zoo, U/B Mill and R/G Titan
Standard - Mono-white Humans and U/R Mill
Legacy - Maverick
I just got the deck built and have only played it in two tournaments both going 3-1 lost to burn and zoo. I'm currently on U/B Jinlin build.
One idea I have though is switching the watery graves to Sunken Hollow. I understand we may at times lose serious tempo but it also feels bad sometimes to lose that two life so we end up bringing Watery Grave in tapped anyway.
Well done.
I think something like darkslick shores is a better option then sunken hollow.
Sunken hollow is a tempo loss early game since it comes in tapped. Darkslick is basically the opposite and is a tempo loss on turn 4 and on.
Mill decks are mostly low mana curve and getting a tempo loss on turn 4+ i feel is much easier to navigate then early on when you probably need/want it more.
I ended up playing a tournament last night and ended uo going 2/2 for the night. I bought leyline of sanctity x3 for sideboard and i think that won me a round i would of lost if i hadn't had it.
I lost to goblins 8 whack. Tough match up since it can kill turn 3 and 4. And the other round loss was zoo. Unlucky with zoo as both games i lost to it i moved into a commanding position next turn and prob go on to win the round.
As of now the only thing i may have to do is tweak my land base. It hasn't changed from when i posted my decklist. I wouldn't mind some help and suggestions on how to fit in 4x flooded strands and possibly bumping up the number of godless shrines/hallowed fountains. Also im susceptible to blood moon and i have no out from it atm. Im considering putting in 1x plains to be able to fetch and get a out for bloodmoon. Atm it is a hoser for my deck.
Yeah, Esper solves one of the biggest issues with the deck.
Would you mind sharing your current list RoKnRuiN1?
Sure, I'm not home till later this evening but when I am I'll type up my list.
So far I don't think more than 1 Hallowed Fountain and 1 Godless Shrine is needed with 4x Polluted Delta and 4x Flooded Strand. Against a Blood Moon deck, path will probably be irrelevant so you just need to hit islands and swamps in that matchup. G2 just make sure to play around Blood moon if you have to. Get the basics that you need and I like to hold one fetch uncracked so I can Disenchant or something if I need to. Echoing Truth can also help get rid of blood moon temporarily. I run 2 Echoing Truth and 2 Disenchant as my answers. Mesmeric Orb also does wonders against blood moon.
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Blood moon is a problem as it shuts out my access to white mana.
I dont get access to disenchant,path,ghostly prison,lingering souls, and leyline of sanctity if i for some reason needed to hard cast it.
In my experience blood moon is getting played in aggro decks so i just cant sit there and mill them. I need to fix my mana base to make sure i can either answer it directly or play around it.
I had a think about it and i think i need to drop my seachrome coasts altogether, change my basic land base to 3x Swamp 3x island 3x plains,replace the glacial fortress with a watery grave and put in 4x flooded strands.
This will give me access to the basic mana if i need it. Give me valid fetch targets for flooded strands and polluted deltas and most importantly allow me to play around blood moons if need be. Having 1x hallowed fountain and godless shrine should allow me to be able to mana fix if i need be too. Having 2x Watery Graves is because a lot of my deck relies on blue mana so it should help.
I may even be able to keep 2x islands in my deck and run a extra land of choice because I can almost count Oboro, Palace in the Clouds as a island.
3 plains is wayyy too much. It will ruin your consistent mana base. What I meant by that was I leave the fetch available with another land. I'll usually sac it for a Hallowed or godless and float white before the bloodmoon resolves. Then i just cast Disenchant and rid my self of the problem. Most decks don't play Bloodmoon. You really only need to have 1 blue and 1 black available. Of you can get multiples of either, even better but if they are playing bloodmoon they aren't killing you. The occasional goblins deck will run them and mono green devotion and blue moon.
Just play smart and play expecting a Blood Moon. We can play around it. When you get your fetch lands it will help tremendously with this. Consider playing Inquisition of Kozilek if you think that would help out. It certainly can steal that T3 moon right out of their hand.
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Okay, sorry for the late list. I just haven't had any time to actually sit down at a computer the past couple of days and lists are a nightmare on my phone.
I ended up going 4-1 tonight, losing to a bad judgment call against Skred Red and being greedy when I knew Blood Moon on t3 is very realistic. Would have won had I just played the Inquisition and taken the Moon. I got him to 11 cards with blood moon out since I had a Island and Swamp. Couldn't close out though but I was holding 2 traps and a GQ that I could never use. All and all the deck performed well. I managed to beat Infect 2-0 thanks to Inquisition, Path, and Engineered Explosives.
Played against GR Tron 2-0, Trading Post Tron 2-0, UG Infect 2-0, Ad Nauseum 2-0, and Skred Red 1-2 tonight. Here's my current list, I feel pretty good about it right now.
Didn't get a chance to use my Vampiric Link's against anything tonight. Was hoping to play against burn. I'll probably be putting in Timely Reinforcements in this spot. Eidolon (spelling?) is annoying but Link might not do enough against that general match up to merit playing. Either Timely or some life gain effect. I would like to test Sun Droplet again.
I do happen to think that Scribe has to be included unfortunately. His walling ability against Infect, Burn, and Zoo are too valuable to ignore. I think he might be a necessary evil if you aren't playing Soul's or something. I am choosing him over Souls since he lives through all of burns combat damage without extra burn, and he does add to the game plan. Maybe only 3 cards if no Delirium, but still progressing the game. I am trying to find a spot for a 3rd. I am concerned with using 4 Mesmeric Orb with only 3 Incursion. Milling my own stall cards can be pretty rough. I don't know if 4 Incursion is right to play or not. I didn't really play matches where it was too relevant tonight so I can't really say one way or another currently. Scribe might be able to take the place of the 4th since I can stall with blocking for a turn at least usually.
I might include a plains again in the deck. Not sure if I would be able to play it successfully with 3 GQ. Might have to go down to 2 if I do. Will need testing before hand. I am not really sure if Blood Moon is something I should be worried about going into Dallas next week.
Okay, sorry for the late list. I just haven't had any time to actually sit down at a computer the past couple of days and lists are a nightmare on my phone.
I ended up going 4-1 tonight, losing to a bad judgment call against Skred Red and being greedy when I knew Blood Moon on t3 is very realistic. Would have won had I just played the Inquisition and taken the Moon. I got him to 11 cards with blood moon out since I had a Island and Swamp. Couldn't close out though but I was holding 2 traps and a GQ that I could never use. All and all the deck performed well. I managed to beat Infect 2-0 thanks to Inquisition, Path, and Engineered Explosives.
Played against GR Tron 2-0, Trading Post Tron 2-0, UG Infect 2-0, Ad Nauseum 2-0, and Skred Red 1-2 tonight. Here's my current list, I feel pretty good about it right now.
I think the tiny changes you make to your deck are to uber adapt it to the players that hang out at shop you play in. For example you just brought in Engineered Explosives and you just used it to win against your infect player, it seems quite a lucky coincidence... You would need some wider ground for the whole thing to be more meaningful...
Okay, sorry for the late list. I just haven't had any time to actually sit down at a computer the past couple of days and lists are a nightmare on my phone.
I ended up going 4-1 tonight, losing to a bad judgment call against Skred Red and being greedy when I knew Blood Moon on t3 is very realistic. Would have won had I just played the Inquisition and taken the Moon. I got him to 11 cards with blood moon out since I had a Island and Swamp. Couldn't close out though but I was holding 2 traps and a GQ that I could never use. All and all the deck performed well. I managed to beat Infect 2-0 thanks to Inquisition, Path, and Engineered Explosives.
Played against GR Tron 2-0, Trading Post Tron 2-0, UG Infect 2-0, Ad Nauseum 2-0, and Skred Red 1-2 tonight. Here's my current list, I feel pretty good about it right now.
I think the tiny changes you make to your deck are to uber adapt it to the players that hang out at shop you play in. For example you just brought in Engineered Explosives and you just used it to win against your infect player, it seems quite a lucky coincidence... You would need some wider ground for the whole thing to be more meaningful...
Grats, great results
Engineered explosives metacall is quite interesting
In my opinion 3 GQ for 3 color deck like this is too much
Im a fan of Shelldock isle because it provides use of excess mana, I would run 3-4
4 crypt incursion is too much for me. Its a card we want to see mid-late game, I think 2-3 is the right number
Inquisition is questionable card, its great t1, but topdecking it is meh
Vampiric Link is an interesting cheap removal
Well I play at 4 different stores so my meta is kind of all over the place to be honest. If you know me as a player, me playing Engineered Explosives MB isn't anything new. My Jeskai Control list that I piloted to 6th at state's icncluded a MB Explosives. That card is super relevant in nearly every match up and you'll always see me include it in a 3 color deck, sideboard or mainboard. I also beat Ad Nauseum G1 because I played a t2 Explosives for '0' and busted his 2x Lotus that came in t4. The card is good.
Explosives is a card that's relevant in pretty much every match. It will always hit something unless your dying to lands I suppose. I put it in the MB because I am expecting a lot of aggro in Dallas next week. I don't necessarily build my list to a stores certain Meta unless I want to try out something specific. In this case, i knew i have already had months of success playing MB Explosives in Jeskai, so it only seemed right MB in 3c mill when i need a way to slow the game state. I always try to play a 75 that I would win a GP or SCG Open. Otherwise, to me, it's a bit pointless playing if I expect my lists would perform badly at a large event and only well at FNM.
Also, Infect isn't really something that's in my meta. I saw this guy at state's a month ago or so and thats been it. He just happened to be at my store last night. Literally just a coincidence. I do appreciate your opinion on the matter though, Luke.
@Timba
The 3 GQ are necessary, imo. Since GQ can manipulate out U and B mana, 3 is fine. If you have to use one on your self, while not ideal, you will have your colors that you need to progress your game plan. Otherwise they can wreck your opponents mana combined with our milling and enable trap and makes Surgical Amazing in some matches like Tron.
I don't agree with more than 2 Shelldock Isle. 3 tapped lands is too much and the 20 cards or less in library requires it to be at the end of the game in almost every situation. I only need to see one at that stage in the game.
I usually feel the same about Inquisition, but I've found it to be nothing but value in this list. I did try out 4 IoK and 2 Thoughtseize, and that was indeed too much. IoK is a fantastic card and it's done nothing but save me in the early game on top of Path to Exile. I doubt I'll be cutting them since they've only proven their weight in gold to me.
The 4th Incursion was to test out against aggro. As I said, I'll be in Dallas and I am expecting a LOT of aggro. Burn is very prominent in the Midwest and it's extra hate for them. It's probably getting cut as I already mentioned.
Link isn't all that great. I really only like it on very specific creatures and was hoping to get testing in against burn last night. Timely would go a lot further against a wider variety of decks.
I tend to try and build to beat the biggest range of decks rather then a specific meta.
I think that 3 or 4 crypt incursions is too much tbh. If i use 1 i may of already exiled a great deal of my opponents creatures, i certainly don't want another crypt incursion showing up a few cards later. 2 seems like the sweet spot to me.
Inquisition is a good card but i have a love/hate relationship with it. When it works it works fantastically and pulls out a big threat, but that can be said of any other card in a perfect situation. When i draw it mid to late game it is rubbish tbh opponents may of already stabilized and all i want to do is control them or mill them. Every card in my deck i want to be able to draw it and say yeah that's ok at any point in the game. If im drawing a card and i can't say that then i try and evaluate the card a little better.
I love the potential of shelldock isle but it really irks me when i have to play it tapped. The tempo loss to my gameplan i decided wasn't worth it. I was on the fence about mesmeric orb for a long time switching between running all kinds of different combinations of it both md and sb. One of my big reservations about the card was that i was milling myself and i didn't like seeing value cards that i needed go to waste. I started using a playset of it md as of late and although i do see value hit the gy its milling for so much, couple with a jace, vryn's prodigy means i can flashback the cards i want to see. I just mill my opponents so much faster then myself and its continued value over multiple turns is fantastic. A nice tactic with the orb is to play one and watch your opponent count their taps and say that they can afford the 5 cards milled next untap phase for me to play another so that's doubled the amount milled next untap phase, late game its a game changer.
In terms of basic plains RoKnRuiN1 has a good point about fetching and floating a white mana before blood moon resolves. I guess my main worry is that if i don't have a answer in hand to blood moon when it lands and floating mana will do nothing to stop it if i have to draw into my answers. Running one basic plains will ensure that is not a problem i think and ill test that out next time i have a chance. Even if i don't draw into a answer for blood moon i don't want to be shut out of path's, lingering souls, ghostly prisons or disenchants. Thats a lot of my control to be shut out of so having one basic plains will allow me to fetch for the plains if i don't have a answer immediately and still allow me to go wide and play around it if needed. Im taking RoKnRuiN1's advice in his sig here "Every game loss is due to your inability to interact with your opponent" and deciding i want to be able to interact with my opponent if i see a blood moon
One of the reasons that I included the 4th Crypt Incursion is to ensure I draw it. Mill is a deck that has to draw it's "answers" in order to survive. With Spellbomb removed from my MB I only have Crypt Incursion MB to deal with Emrakul. The 4th is an answer to Emrakul and a way for me to cast it for low value without worry about not drawing into another if I know I only have 1 more copy in the deck. Incursion for 6+ life is good enough in most situations.
I think people play this card expecting to go big all the time when it's not necessary. I'm more concerned with getting it before t4 than gaining loads of life. With Mesmeric Orb in play, I like knowing that there are multiples as well. I've lost games due to untimely mills on my self knowing that the probability of me seeing the next one is significantly lower after X amount hit my GY. If I was playing 2 copies of Incursion and I saw one hit the GY from an orb I'd probably die inside a little bit.
Inquisition is another card that I feel like has that kind of power that Crypt Incursion does. This may stem from my knowledge of what lists usually run, but the knowing what my opponent has in hand is word the B mana alone to me. Usually the late game is a terrible time for a player to draw hand disruption, but my thoughts on that are this.
What exactly is a "late" game for mill? We are trying to mill our opponents as fast as possible, just as burn does. Unless you stick in more actual mill, other cards can be just as dead in a late game because we're playing mill. I've experienced too many plays where an IoK has saved my life late game. Because milling our opponent is no guarantee that we will hit a specific card, when we need it, I've found it to be significantly better in mill late game than any other deck I've played it in. It's hit game ending cards late game for me too often now.
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Have you considered hide/seek ? Its a turn two answer to emrakul and you gain 15 life.
If they have more then 1 emrakul then you have to crypt incursion it but it does give you 15 life a complete look at opponents deck to write down problem cards and a lot of life. Even if they dont have emrakul you can decide to pull out a big cmc card and gain life and get a look at things.
As a one of I find it hard to justify playing it. I've considered it but I don't think it's that big of a deal when I can use graveyard hate such as RiP or Spellbomb. As multiples I can't think of many decks I would want to use the card against. I'm trying to keep my sideboard very simple and have general all around utility answers. Not necessarily great cards on their own, but ones that create some sort of tempo loss generally against every deck type around. Of course some of my SB can be use for very specific things comparable to this, such as extracting Tron lands. I'm considering adding a 3rd Disenchant in the sb because of its wide use against hate cards for us. Echoing Truth still does more or less the same thing, and is easier to cast when fighting Blood Moon. It requires other cards to rid the problem permanently and that's unfortunate. I've got 1 or 2 more nights I can play this week before I settle on my list for Dallas.
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I know we've discussed Jace, Vryn's Prodigy a little but I am not sure how many of us are playing him. Is anyone actively using him? If so how's he performed and how many are you running? I'm debating on getting 2-4 since he's dipped so drastically in price. Any input from firsthand experience would be much appreciated.
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What to do about elves? I got T2 Chokeed TWICE tonight (I won the 1st round and he magically got Choke off t2 or t3 in the two games afterwards). He's also packing Reclamation Sage, which poops all over my Mesmeric Orbs and Ensnaring Bridges.
I have Ensnaring Bridge x3 MB and sided in Engineered Explosives x3, Crypt Incursion x1 (I have 3 MB), and Disenchantx2 (because the same guy beat me with Choke last week), but I just couldn't cut the mustard. I also mulled to 6 on all 3 games. Should I also run Ghost Quarters? Should I dip further into white for Path to Exile? I don't usually have such issues with aggro/midrange, but Choke is a really big issue for me and I don't really want to change my WHOLE deck because of some SB cards...
NB4 draw better hands. Don't give me that advice, lol.
Echoing Truth if you have IoK, Set Adrift doesn't seem like a bad answer. Disenchant does it too. Thinking about it, IoK could solve this issue for you in most situations. If you rip it out before he can play it t2 then there is a realistic possibility that the rest will be milled. If he has none in hand then it will probably be too late before he does or they are all milled out in general. It will give you a t1 in most situations allowing for a t2 Hedron crab that can't be killed before the first mill trigger, since we retain priority and all as well. Seems like a solid option, especially paired with your SB choices in that match up.
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Would you mind sharing your current list RoKnRuiN1?
I played another tournament last night.
First round against a rogue deck. First game wasn't too scary till he got a zombie like creature that had +x+x for each creature in all graveyards. It was 10/10 at one stage but I managed to draw into a path to kill it. Seccond game he never got ascendancy and i won fairly easily. Result 2/0
Round two was against naya burn. I kept okish kind of hand game one and didn't have too many answers to the burn. Game two he had a lot of burn hit me in the face and i got him down to about 13 cards. Result 0/2
Round 3 i played against soul sisters. I resolved a ghostly prison on turn 3 against him and another on turn 4. He scooped when he saw the seccond hit. He mentioned he thought he had answers to me leading to game two but was clearly bewildered by the mill and control I was exercising. I resolved a ghoslty prison again on turn 5 and in the end milled him out hard. A favourable match up and probably my most salty opponent for the night. Result 2/0
Fourth and final round was against scapeshift. This is a extremely favourable match up. Not much to say other then he got milled fast. He didn't get scapeshift off ounce and through his searching managed to get 2x archive traps off one turn and 1x off two turns later. Result 2/0
Im happy with how the deck is preforming now. I may drop one lingering souls and one extirpate in my sb to test out leyline of sanctity and besides tweaking the land base im pretty happy with where the core of the deck is atm.
One idea I have though is switching the watery graves to Sunken Hollow. I understand we may at times lose serious tempo but it also feels bad sometimes to lose that two life so we end up bringing Watery Grave in tapped anyway.
Standard - Mono-white Humans and U/R Mill
Legacy - Maverick
Well done.
I think something like darkslick shores is a better option then sunken hollow.
Sunken hollow is a tempo loss early game since it comes in tapped. Darkslick is basically the opposite and is a tempo loss on turn 4 and on.
Mill decks are mostly low mana curve and getting a tempo loss on turn 4+ i feel is much easier to navigate then early on when you probably need/want it more.
I ended up playing a tournament last night and ended uo going 2/2 for the night. I bought leyline of sanctity x3 for sideboard and i think that won me a round i would of lost if i hadn't had it.
I lost to goblins 8 whack. Tough match up since it can kill turn 3 and 4. And the other round loss was zoo. Unlucky with zoo as both games i lost to it i moved into a commanding position next turn and prob go on to win the round.
As of now the only thing i may have to do is tweak my land base. It hasn't changed from when i posted my decklist. I wouldn't mind some help and suggestions on how to fit in 4x flooded strands and possibly bumping up the number of godless shrines/hallowed fountains. Also im susceptible to blood moon and i have no out from it atm. Im considering putting in 1x plains to be able to fetch and get a out for bloodmoon. Atm it is a hoser for my deck.
Sure, I'm not home till later this evening but when I am I'll type up my list.
So far I don't think more than 1 Hallowed Fountain and 1 Godless Shrine is needed with 4x Polluted Delta and 4x Flooded Strand. Against a Blood Moon deck, path will probably be irrelevant so you just need to hit islands and swamps in that matchup. G2 just make sure to play around Blood moon if you have to. Get the basics that you need and I like to hold one fetch uncracked so I can Disenchant or something if I need to. Echoing Truth can also help get rid of blood moon temporarily. I run 2 Echoing Truth and 2 Disenchant as my answers. Mesmeric Orb also does wonders against blood moon.
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I dont get access to disenchant,path,ghostly prison,lingering souls, and leyline of sanctity if i for some reason needed to hard cast it.
In my experience blood moon is getting played in aggro decks so i just cant sit there and mill them. I need to fix my mana base to make sure i can either answer it directly or play around it.
I had a think about it and i think i need to drop my seachrome coasts altogether, change my basic land base to 3x Swamp 3x island 3x plains,replace the glacial fortress with a watery grave and put in 4x flooded strands.
This will give me access to the basic mana if i need it. Give me valid fetch targets for flooded strands and polluted deltas and most importantly allow me to play around blood moons if need be. Having 1x hallowed fountain and godless shrine should allow me to be able to mana fix if i need be too. Having 2x Watery Graves is because a lot of my deck relies on blue mana so it should help.
I may even be able to keep 2x islands in my deck and run a extra land of choice because I can almost count Oboro, Palace in the Clouds as a island.
What is everyones thoughts on this idea ?
Just play smart and play expecting a Blood Moon. We can play around it. When you get your fetch lands it will help tremendously with this. Consider playing Inquisition of Kozilek if you think that would help out. It certainly can steal that T3 moon right out of their hand.
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I ended up going 4-1 tonight, losing to a bad judgment call against Skred Red and being greedy when I knew Blood Moon on t3 is very realistic. Would have won had I just played the Inquisition and taken the Moon. I got him to 11 cards with blood moon out since I had a Island and Swamp. Couldn't close out though but I was holding 2 traps and a GQ that I could never use. All and all the deck performed well. I managed to beat Infect 2-0 thanks to Inquisition, Path, and Engineered Explosives.
Played against GR Tron 2-0, Trading Post Tron 2-0, UG Infect 2-0, Ad Nauseum 2-0, and Skred Red 1-2 tonight. Here's my current list, I feel pretty good about it right now.
4 Hedron Crab
2 Manic Scribe
Inst/Sorc 27
4 Path to Exile
4 Visions of Beyond
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Glimpse the Unthinkable
1 Breaking // Entering
4 Crypt Incursion
2 Mind Funeral
4 Archive Trap
Artifacts 4
3 Mesmeric Orb
1 Engineered Explosives
4 Polluted Delta
4 Flooded Strand
1 Marsh Flats
2 Island
2 Swamp
2 Watery Grave
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Godless Shrine
1 Oboro, Palace in the Clouds
2 Shelldock Isle
3 Ghost Quarter
1 Celestial Purge
2 Vampiric Link
2 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Disenchant
2 Echoing Truth
3 Surgical Extraction
3 Stony Silence
Didn't get a chance to use my Vampiric Link's against anything tonight. Was hoping to play against burn. I'll probably be putting in Timely Reinforcements in this spot. Eidolon (spelling?) is annoying but Link might not do enough against that general match up to merit playing. Either Timely or some life gain effect. I would like to test Sun Droplet again.
I do happen to think that Scribe has to be included unfortunately. His walling ability against Infect, Burn, and Zoo are too valuable to ignore. I think he might be a necessary evil if you aren't playing Soul's or something. I am choosing him over Souls since he lives through all of burns combat damage without extra burn, and he does add to the game plan. Maybe only 3 cards if no Delirium, but still progressing the game. I am trying to find a spot for a 3rd. I am concerned with using 4 Mesmeric Orb with only 3 Incursion. Milling my own stall cards can be pretty rough. I don't know if 4 Incursion is right to play or not. I didn't really play matches where it was too relevant tonight so I can't really say one way or another currently. Scribe might be able to take the place of the 4th since I can stall with blocking for a turn at least usually.
I might include a plains again in the deck. Not sure if I would be able to play it successfully with 3 GQ. Might have to go down to 2 if I do. Will need testing before hand. I am not really sure if Blood Moon is something I should be worried about going into Dallas next week.
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Engineered explosives metacall is quite interesting
In my opinion 3 GQ for 3 color deck like this is too much
Im a fan of Shelldock isle because it provides use of excess mana, I would run 3-4
4 crypt incursion is too much for me. Its a card we want to see mid-late game, I think 2-3 is the right number
Inquisition is questionable card, its great t1, but topdecking it is meh
Vampiric Link is an interesting cheap removal
G Green Stompy
RG Shamans
UB Mill
UG Infect
WUBRG Slivers!
Explosives is a card that's relevant in pretty much every match. It will always hit something unless your dying to lands I suppose. I put it in the MB because I am expecting a lot of aggro in Dallas next week. I don't necessarily build my list to a stores certain Meta unless I want to try out something specific. In this case, i knew i have already had months of success playing MB Explosives in Jeskai, so it only seemed right MB in 3c mill when i need a way to slow the game state. I always try to play a 75 that I would win a GP or SCG Open. Otherwise, to me, it's a bit pointless playing if I expect my lists would perform badly at a large event and only well at FNM.
Also, Infect isn't really something that's in my meta. I saw this guy at state's a month ago or so and thats been it. He just happened to be at my store last night. Literally just a coincidence. I do appreciate your opinion on the matter though, Luke.
@Timba
The 3 GQ are necessary, imo. Since GQ can manipulate out U and B mana, 3 is fine. If you have to use one on your self, while not ideal, you will have your colors that you need to progress your game plan. Otherwise they can wreck your opponents mana combined with our milling and enable trap and makes Surgical Amazing in some matches like Tron.
I don't agree with more than 2 Shelldock Isle. 3 tapped lands is too much and the 20 cards or less in library requires it to be at the end of the game in almost every situation. I only need to see one at that stage in the game.
I usually feel the same about Inquisition, but I've found it to be nothing but value in this list. I did try out 4 IoK and 2 Thoughtseize, and that was indeed too much. IoK is a fantastic card and it's done nothing but save me in the early game on top of Path to Exile. I doubt I'll be cutting them since they've only proven their weight in gold to me.
The 4th Incursion was to test out against aggro. As I said, I'll be in Dallas and I am expecting a LOT of aggro. Burn is very prominent in the Midwest and it's extra hate for them. It's probably getting cut as I already mentioned.
Link isn't all that great. I really only like it on very specific creatures and was hoping to get testing in against burn last night. Timely would go a lot further against a wider variety of decks.
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"In response.. Mana Leak?"
"Every game loss is due to your inability to interact with your opponent"
I think that 3 or 4 crypt incursions is too much tbh. If i use 1 i may of already exiled a great deal of my opponents creatures, i certainly don't want another crypt incursion showing up a few cards later. 2 seems like the sweet spot to me.
Inquisition is a good card but i have a love/hate relationship with it. When it works it works fantastically and pulls out a big threat, but that can be said of any other card in a perfect situation. When i draw it mid to late game it is rubbish tbh opponents may of already stabilized and all i want to do is control them or mill them. Every card in my deck i want to be able to draw it and say yeah that's ok at any point in the game. If im drawing a card and i can't say that then i try and evaluate the card a little better.
I love the potential of shelldock isle but it really irks me when i have to play it tapped. The tempo loss to my gameplan i decided wasn't worth it. I was on the fence about mesmeric orb for a long time switching between running all kinds of different combinations of it both md and sb. One of my big reservations about the card was that i was milling myself and i didn't like seeing value cards that i needed go to waste. I started using a playset of it md as of late and although i do see value hit the gy its milling for so much, couple with a jace, vryn's prodigy means i can flashback the cards i want to see. I just mill my opponents so much faster then myself and its continued value over multiple turns is fantastic. A nice tactic with the orb is to play one and watch your opponent count their taps and say that they can afford the 5 cards milled next untap phase for me to play another so that's doubled the amount milled next untap phase, late game its a game changer.
In terms of basic plains RoKnRuiN1 has a good point about fetching and floating a white mana before blood moon resolves. I guess my main worry is that if i don't have a answer in hand to blood moon when it lands and floating mana will do nothing to stop it if i have to draw into my answers. Running one basic plains will ensure that is not a problem i think and ill test that out next time i have a chance. Even if i don't draw into a answer for blood moon i don't want to be shut out of path's, lingering souls, ghostly prisons or disenchants. Thats a lot of my control to be shut out of so having one basic plains will allow me to fetch for the plains if i don't have a answer immediately and still allow me to go wide and play around it if needed. Im taking RoKnRuiN1's advice in his sig here "Every game loss is due to your inability to interact with your opponent" and deciding i want to be able to interact with my opponent if i see a blood moon
I think people play this card expecting to go big all the time when it's not necessary. I'm more concerned with getting it before t4 than gaining loads of life. With Mesmeric Orb in play, I like knowing that there are multiples as well. I've lost games due to untimely mills on my self knowing that the probability of me seeing the next one is significantly lower after X amount hit my GY. If I was playing 2 copies of Incursion and I saw one hit the GY from an orb I'd probably die inside a little bit.
Inquisition is another card that I feel like has that kind of power that Crypt Incursion does. This may stem from my knowledge of what lists usually run, but the knowing what my opponent has in hand is word the B mana alone to me. Usually the late game is a terrible time for a player to draw hand disruption, but my thoughts on that are this.
What exactly is a "late" game for mill? We are trying to mill our opponents as fast as possible, just as burn does. Unless you stick in more actual mill, other cards can be just as dead in a late game because we're playing mill. I've experienced too many plays where an IoK has saved my life late game. Because milling our opponent is no guarantee that we will hit a specific card, when we need it, I've found it to be significantly better in mill late game than any other deck I've played it in. It's hit game ending cards late game for me too often now.
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"In response.. Mana Leak?"
"Every game loss is due to your inability to interact with your opponent"
If they have more then 1 emrakul then you have to crypt incursion it but it does give you 15 life a complete look at opponents deck to write down problem cards and a lot of life. Even if they dont have emrakul you can decide to pull out a big cmc card and gain life and get a look at things.
Signature by Rivenor of Miraculous Recovery Signatures
"In response.. Mana Leak?"
"Every game loss is due to your inability to interact with your opponent"
Signature by Rivenor of Miraculous Recovery Signatures
"In response.. Mana Leak?"
"Every game loss is due to your inability to interact with your opponent"
It seems it can die to hate if they see it as a threat but looks worthwhile to me if we are running orbs.
I have Ensnaring Bridge x3 MB and sided in Engineered Explosives x3, Crypt Incursion x1 (I have 3 MB), and Disenchantx2 (because the same guy beat me with Choke last week), but I just couldn't cut the mustard. I also mulled to 6 on all 3 games. Should I also run Ghost Quarters? Should I dip further into white for Path to Exile? I don't usually have such issues with aggro/midrange, but Choke is a really big issue for me and I don't really want to change my WHOLE deck because of some SB cards...
NB4 draw better hands. Don't give me that advice, lol.
Signature by Rivenor of Miraculous Recovery Signatures
"In response.. Mana Leak?"
"Every game loss is due to your inability to interact with your opponent"