We've got access to a 2CMC half-lord in Frogtosser Banneret, but that's about as close as we can get.
I've been thinking of splashing a touch of green for Chameleon Colossus. I don't have a 4-drop in my design yet, and I'd also be able to cheat him into play with an instigator. With Loyalist next to him, giving him trample and pro tokens, it seems like he could swing once and kill if you've got a beef lord and 4 mana to activate his ability(running vials like I do, I would most likely have mana to activate).
Banneret is so weak...Why does Faerie's and Merfolk work so well and Goblin's don't?
Wizards could barely reprint Goblin Matron or invent some really good 2cmc Goblin. That doesn't hurt anyone, at least the MOdern Meta.
Besides, i decide to run Marsh Flitter instead of Wort. It's so cute, i have to test it as a 2 of.
The Goblin Rabblemaster will replace the Lavamancer next month.
Besides, is anyone interested in working out an addition to the Primer?
I'd like to expand it by writing about the Aether Vial Version with B/W/G-Splash.
And why is Goblin Guide raising in Prize ATM? Is there any important Deck running him that i don't know?
Banneret is so weak...Why does Faerie's and Merfolk work so well and Goblin's don't?
Wizards could barely reprint Goblin Matron or invent some really good 2cmc Goblin. That doesn't hurt anyone, at least the MOdern Meta.
All I could think while reading this was, "what good two drop lords are there in legacy for goblins..."
Faeries and merfolk work because they can be backed by powerhouse counters and removal. Goblins don't have that luxury.
And yes, you're right about banneret.
To an extent.
He doesn't work good in some decks, but speeds mine right up. He's more for a vial-lord deck(like mine) instead of a RDW version. Personally, I still think that vial-lords are the way to go, because goblins get pretty beefy fast. It's not uncommon for most of them to be able to survive an early Pyroclasm if they have to. Sure, the RDW version might have more turn two damage, but based off of my testing, they can't keep up when you're casting lords and pumping out other goblins with vial. plus, a well placed tarfire/bolt ruins everything against the RDW version.
Besides, is anyone interested in working out an addition to the Primer?
I'd like to expand it by writing about the Aether Vial Version with B/W/G-Splash.
And why is Goblin Guide raising in Prize ATM? Is there any important Deck running him that i don't know?
You can cheat changelings in with your instigator, which is really nice.
I don't think that it would make my mana base unstable, it would just force me to use fetch lands. I've got not problem with that, I just try my hardest to make it so a deck doesn't need them. But, in some cases(3+ colors), you have to use them.
I'm glad harbinger is working good for you as well. I've only ever ran 2, and it seems perfect to me. Hence why I haven't changed it.
Your right about Banneret. I did cut Spike Jester out for him. And to be honest, I'm glad I did. Jesters speedy and nice, don't get me wrong. But that added drop on lords(from banneret) is clutch.
Venture back to Lorwyn, anybody?
On a different note: Tested my goblin deck Against my faerie deck.
Lordy Lordy, what was I thinking?
Game one was rough. Lost to bitterblossom and Scion of Oona. And counters. Everything important was countered. My brother was using my faeries, and they loved him. My first turn vial got spell pierced. My second turn Instigator was Remanded. My third turn chieftain was Mana Leaked. I finally got a Loyalist to stick 4th turn. He played a Bitterblossom. Fifth turn I miracled Reforge the Soul, played a Chieftain, swung for 4. He dropped a land, thoughtseized(bye bye new chieftain), passed turn. Flashed in a Pestermite tapping my loyalist(what?), spellstuttered my auntie, boomerang'ed my chieftain.
Great.
After that, it was a flurry of cryptic commands and him flashing in faeries at the end of my turn. No contest.
Game 2 was even worse. I went first, and that didn't help much. My vial hit, only to get bounced back to my hand three turns later and inquisitioned. I was hit with an Exhaustion on his third turn, so ALL my creatures and lands were tapped for my fourth except my land drop for turn. After that, it was once again, a bunch of counters and discard until I was top decking. Then faeries being flashed in at the end of my turn.
I'm never going to play against my faerie deck again.
Ever.
And I also see why people get so frustrated playing against it. You think you're getting somewhere, but you really aren't.
Your right about Banneret. I did cut Spike Jester out for him. And to be honest, I'm glad I did. Jesters speedy and nice, don't get me wrong. But that added drop on lords(from banneret) is clutch.
Game one was rough. Lost to bitterblossom and Scion of Oona. And counters. Everything important was countered. My brother was using my faeries, and they loved him. My first turn vial got spell pierced. My second turn Instigator was Remanded. My third turn chieftain was Mana Leaked. I finally got a Loyalist to stick 4th turn. He played a Bitterblossom. Fifth turn I miracled Reforge the Soul, played a Chieftain, swung for 4. He dropped a land, thoughtseized(bye bye new chieftain), passed turn. Flashed in a Pestermite tapping my loyalist(what?), spellstuttered my auntie, boomerang'ed my chieftain.
Great.
After that, it was a flurry of cryptic commands and him flashing in faeries at the end of my turn. No contest.
Game 2 was even worse. I went first, and that didn't help much. My vial hit, only to get bounced back to my hand three turns later and inquisitioned. I was hit with an Exhaustion on his third turn, so ALL my creatures and lands were tapped for my fourth except my land drop for turn. After that, it was once again, a bunch of counters and discard until I was top decking. Then faeries being flashed in at the end of my turn.
I'm never going to play against my faerie deck again.
Ever.
And I also see why people get so frustrated playing against it. You think you're getting somewhere, but you really aren't.
Cavern of Souls really helps nowadays.
If you run MonoRed you'd like to play teh full 4. The Meta is Counter-heavy and Cavern is teh easiest way to ignore that kind of disruption.
You got so many problems with Sweepers, Bolts, Snapcasters flashing Bolts back, Path to Exile, Thoughtseize that leaving Cavern in your Sticker Album is simpy the wrong answer.
Like every other Deck, Goblins have weaknesses. And Fearies may be a very bad matchup for us.
But also Faeries have to deal with a lot of problems. So don't be upset because of my criticism.
I just getting started with the Vial List as i'm running MonoR until now. Frogtosser Banneret is ok like teh other 2cmc Gobs, but nothing more. Legacy Decks has Goblin Piledriver!!!!!
That damned thing is awesome. it rocks.
DOn't worry, I don't get mad at constructive critiquing.
I run 3 Caverns, I just wasn't lucky enough to hit one. I run three because they interfere with Reforge the Soul if I have to hard-cast it. A few times I wasn't able to cast it because I had two Caverns on the board, and i felt jipped out those games.
Like I said before, sweeps really aren't a problem. Yes, third turn Anger of the Gods messes me up, but it does that to any aggro deck. I can at least survive Pyroclasm on turn three(sometimes turn 2), so that's a good start.
I wouldn't consider Piledriver to be a lord, but he's definitely a Huge staple in legacy goblins.
Good luck with vial-goblins! I'd love to see your list once you have the foundation figured out.
The tournament was a GPT, 35ish players, 6 swiss rounds, big prizes.
Round 1 vs Martyr Life: 2-1 (1-0-0)
I don't usually put Leyline of Punishment in my side as Martyr's not that common a deck and the leyline basically has this corner case use only, so this was a really bad matchup.
G1: mulligan to 6 he mulliganed to 5, I won t4 as he was too slow
G2: double Ghostly Prison t3+t4 and I just scooped
G3: he mulliganed to 5 again and managed to push a t3 win
Round 2 vs Tribal Zoo: 0-2 (1-1-0)
This match is really bad for me, I'm still trying to figure out a sideboard strategy able to give me a chance against Zoo, maybe Blood Moon is the answer.
G1=G2: Lightning Helixes and bigger monsters, nothing I can really do to win.
Round 3 vs Blue Moon: 2-1 (2-1-0)
G1: He's been overrun by goblins and I won t5 as he couldn't counter my threats (thank you, Cavern of Souls)
G2: He locked me with plenty or removals and Vedalken Shackles
G3: He raced him to 2 life, but he locked me again with two Anger of The Gods t3+t4 and a couple Stormbreath Dragon on the field, then I killed him with a Lightning Bolt after flooding: he could Remand it by I had plenty of mana to recast it as many times I wanted.
Round 4 vs GR Tron: 2-1 (3-1-0)
G1: I had a hand full of 1-drops and swarmed him, he cast a Wurmcoil Engine trying to survive, but Legion Loyalist's made me deal enough damage before Wurmcoil's lifelink could save him.
G2: Slow start for me, Pyroclasm on my few drops and an early Wurmcoil made me scoop
G3: Fast hand, early Pyroclasm, I killed him with my multiple threats with haste and a bolt in the face
Round 5 vs UR Twin: 1-2 (3-2-0)
G1: Mulligan to 5 vs turn 4 combo, meh
G2: Good hand, but he finally managed to control the field when he was at 1 life point. He dropped an EoT Pestermite and I killed him with a Rakdos Charm.
G3: I mana screwed and wasn't able to deliver threats AND have the answer for his combo. In the end I just died.
Round 6 vs Tooth and Nail devotion: 2-0 (4-2-0)
G1: Insanely aggro'd him, he had no answer and just died quickly.
G2: He had more answers post-side, but I had no way to stay alive AND build devotion. Having to lose devotion enablers to stop the goblin wave I was able to overrun him in the end well before he could have the option to use Tooth and Nail.
Comments:
Black is the new red - part1: Terminate gave me more MD answers to big dudes and creature based combos, so I'm fine with it and thinking if he could be more than a 2x (including sideboard)
Black is the new red - part2: Spike Jester is marvelous and a great improvement vs Mogg War Marshal as haste means it is a better post-sweeper threat, 3/1 means he can kill Zoo's beasts and it is a better choice for a Blitz build like this
Black is the new red - part3: Rakdos Charm is God.
Gemstone Mine >> Blood Crypt: it would be very strange to use a land more than three times in a game, so I chose to save some life not auto-shocking me.
I need better answers against Zoo, I might use some SB slots for additional Terminates and a 3x Blood Moon
New week, new
I don't usually put Leyline of Punishment in my side as Martyr's not that common a deck and the leyline basically has this corner case use
[*] I need better answers against Zoo, I might use some SB slots for additional Terminates and a 3x Blood Moon
[/numlist]
So what was your sideboard then?
Bloodmoon seems useless against zoo, unless it is tribal flasmes zoo. I personaly like goblin king here, altough you need to beware he doesn't get burned at the attack.
4x terminate seems to much, certainly if you plan on running bloodmoon. I play a 2/2 split with dismember for that reason. Is foundry street denizen still good enough without the marshal?
You seem to have to mulligan a lot, that costed you even some games :S
I don't see any comment on the spirit guide (of which I am not such a fan) how did he preform?
I see you never wanted to have a grenade in these games, so not playing him seems like the right choice, while it was an autoinclude befor.
This was my sideboard:
3x Eidolon of The Great Revel vs Storm
3x Torpor Orb vs Twin
3x Goblin King vs Zoo (didn't see him, more on this later)
3x Combust again vs Twin, came to use vs Martyr
3x Rakdos Charm vs well, anything as it a Jack of All Trades, BTW is there vs Twin
As you can see I have King in my side exactly for Zoo, I didn't see it but I feel it won't be so effective as he plays Helixes, Bolts and PTEs, while with Blood Moon you can color screw him (less Helix, less PTE, less creatures) and make his creatures smaller as he plays very few basics and I don't give him extra lands with PTEs.
BTW Blood Moon could be useful against more decks, so I must give it a try.
Simian Spirit Guid gives incredible acceleration to our game, I won a lot of them just early dropping stuff like in Spike Jester + Bushwhacker or Loyalist+Guide+Bushwhacker T3, one of them kept into hand can also give you the extra mana to cast Rakdos Charm/Combust when Pestermite/Exarch taps one of your lands.
I agree on your choice with Dismember/Terminate split, it was already on ballot vs terminate before the tournament for my two slots :>
Denizen proved strong even without Marshal, less than 3/* has been a rare thing during the tournament (t1 denizen + t2 denizen + bushwacker - kicked by simian - is a 9 damage t2)
I've been testing this week at Cockatrice against a lot of decks. Here are some of them:
Worship Troll > 0x2 Worship entering t2. I dont have enchant removal and cant kill Thrun the last troll. Nothing i can do about it.
Delver Spirits > 1x2
I dont knew the deck, then was surprised by huge hexproof flying tokens.
Through the Breach 2x0
Emrakul connected game 1 and destroy all my permanents, but i could rebuild my field and finish him. Game 2 Earwig squad + spiked jester won the game
Aura Hexproof > 2x1 Daybreak Coronet stopped my stompy, game 1. Side In: Inquisition + Warren Weirding. I stayed removing creatures from hand or by sacrifice then he cant recover.
MonoBlack Control > 0x2 Raven's Crime was the big star! Liliana of The veil and smallpox helped
Twin > 2x0
I have a lot of removals. Side In: 3 Inquisition Kozilek + 1 Terminate + 3 Rakdos Charm
Pod > 2x1
Noble Hierarch + Birds started too fast for his side, but lords stompy!
U Tron > 0x2
Wurmcoil + Destiny Stone done the job. Earwig Squad helped a lot game 2: removed 2 wurmcoil + 1 mindslaver. I felt safe, only need destroy Platinum Angel with Tin Street Hooligan at hand. He had a 2nd Mindslaver at started hand! And locked me.
Battle of Wits > 2x1
First game i dont realized how many cards he had, then when Battle of the Wits entered its too late. After i assumed a explosive strategy. t4 and t5 win.
Venser control > 2x0
Almost I've been locked game 1, but Murderous Redcap + lords finished the game. Game 2 stompy!
Considerations
- Mogg Fanatic shining every game he been entered.
- Spike Jester still one of the best goblins i have.
- Mirror Entity turns the battlefield. Enters by Vial then untapped mana makes huge Goblins. Won 3 or 4 games this way.
- I cut off 2x Boggart Ram-Gang because helps, but often is not the best option in hand.
- I replaced 2x Smash to Smithereens for 2x Tin Street Hooligan. Almost 7 G lands, then no problem until now.
- Earwig Squad is strong helpful and easy played by prowl cost.
- Kozilek Inquisition works for me like an extra removals. Helped a lot against Twin and Pod.
Ideas
- I replaced Krenko, Mob Boss for Wort, Boggart Auntie. Almos ever side out Krenko, then i like try Wort again.
- Testing Murderous Redcap. Top of curve, but i have 9 lords MD, ever enters damaging 4+.
- I changed my manabase. Working good. Never had problems with Reflecting Pool until now, ever is a RB Dual, and sometimes a 5th 6th cavern. Thinking about test Gemstone Mine like @Joneleth Irenicus Mentioned before.
Why would you want to add Leyline of punishment or everlasting torment to the decks?
It'd slow you down. You would have to take your whole third turn(if you aren't running vials, which I think is crazy) just to drop Everlasting Torment, or your 4th to drop Leyline(if it wasn't in your opening hand).
Talk about slowing the deck down drastically.
Third turn is when a goblin deck should really explode. "Boom! I've got 6 goblins in play, and 2-3 of them are lords."
Not, "I guess I'll play this E.T. And declare attack phase.." this scenario doesn't seem like it would help one bit.
If you're looking for a way to kill before the guaranteed board clear on turn 4, you'll definitely want different support cards. I've been thinking of taking out Tarfire(I never tutor for it, and I always wish it was more damage) to main Bonfire of the Damned. Bonfire is beast, and with only two main decked, I won't have to worry about it popping up in my opening hand.
There's also an instant that's 1BR and does three damage to each creature and each player called Spontaneous Combustion, Which I sadly just found out that was reprinted in a duel deck and not in a modern set. Which kinda grinds my gears.
Anyway.
I think that we need to find ways to deal with pesky enchantments. We could definitely function with our opponents resolving a Blood Moon, but it would slow down Any deck that splashed in black. And I did a little more than "a splash."
Sorry for the double post, but I forgot to include the updated deck list in my past post. I'm planning on taking it to a Friday night event tomorrow, so I'm open to critiques:
this is a deck i built recently after looking at a lot of decks on mtgdecks.net
i wanted to go for something really versatile and resilient. the only thing i'm skeptical of is shrine of burning rage because it's stupid to play it mid or late game and in early game it will deprive you of your turn two- but it can still win you games and rewards you for longer games. so i'm not sure. there's a lack of removal as well, i do have bolts and terminates in my card pool but i want sensation gorger to work. any advice is welcome.
now for some evaluation of specific cards:
GOBLIN ARSONIST - i like this guy over mogg fanatic because it means 6 damage with goblin grenade and can kill 2-toughness creatures or two different 1-toughness creatures as a chump blucker. i think this outweighs mogg fanatic's instant speed.
GOBLIN GRENADE - i wouldn't want to play a full set of these. it's meant to use with the more expendable goblins (arsonist, bushwhacker after it's kicker) and as a sorta finisher after an alpha strike.
MAD AUNTIE - the regen ability is SO useful. chump block something and get your goblin back or save krenko/chieftain/wort from bolts and stuff. plus the lord thing.
GOBLIN WARDRIVER - this guy feels clunky as hell. he IS slow but he's like a mini lord when it's time to swing. it may not seem much but with a shared animosity or a lord or two it all adds up. plus loyalist = massive raid.
SENSATION GORGER - slow if cast on your third turn, but it makes up for it later. this guy makes sure you never topdeck and can really make you win the game. bonus: the face on your opponent when they have to let go their hand and draw a new one- sometimes a smaller one or full of useless land.
BTW i know my land base is ***** and no cavern of souls or aether vial 'cause i'm somewhat budget and won't pay more than 6$ for a card.
ok, after trading some cards i finally got Aether Vial and was finally able to test my Deck.
I just miss Warren Instigator which i'll get next week.
My List was the one posted on page 24, except i replaced Lavamancer with Facevaulter (which was quiet bad).
I tested vs. Pod, MonoU Tron and Storm just for fun.
What i recognized:
Facevaulter is just bad. It does literally nothing to improve my board state and died many times. Krenko,Mob Boss only shines when smuggling into game with Warren Instigator or when Chieftain is on board.
I cut him to experiment with Hellrider.
I don't want it, but some players watching my matches highly recommended to add Goblin Guide to the Deck. Mogg Fanatic is simply a 1/1 in some MU and nothing more. It stays as a 2-of until Rabblemaster will be released.
Rakdos Charm also wasn't very exciting. It was a dead draw many times as there have been no artifacts, GY cards to remove or many creatures onboard. It jumps to my sideboard as a 3-of.
What exactly is teh right amount of Cavern of Souls? i run 2, but maybe it's a 4-of?
I'm a bit lazy of typing down my list, so it's in the attachment
Festering goblin and goblin wardriver are way way too clunky to fit any goblin deck.
Weird.
My Festering Goblins take down creatures with 2-4 toughness(2 with toughness of 1 a lot of the time as well) at least once a game. Maybe you aren't using them right?
ok, after trading some cards i finally got Aether Vial and was finally able to test my Deck.
I just miss Warren Instigator which i'll get next week.
My List was the one posted on page 24, except i replaced Lavamancer with Facevaulter (which was quiet bad).
I tested vs. Pod, MonoU Tron and Storm just for fun.
What i recognized:
Facevaulter is just bad. It does literally nothing to improve my board state and died many times. Krenko,Mob Boss only shines when smuggling into game with Warren Instigator or when Chieftain is on board.
I cut him to experiment with Hellrider.
I don't want it, but some players watching my matches highly recommended to add Goblin Guide to the Deck. Mogg Fanatic is simply a 1/1 in some MU and nothing more. It stays as a 2-of until Rabblemaster will be released.
Rakdos Charm also wasn't very exciting. It was a dead draw many times as there have been no artifacts, GY cards to remove or many creatures onboard. It jumps to my sideboard as a 3-of.
What exactly is teh right amount of Cavern of Souls? i run 2, but maybe it's a 4-of?
I'm a bit lazy of typing down my list, so it's in the attachment
I used Facevaulter as a way to counter spot removal.
I didn't like it, either.
I'd say run 3 Caverns if you have a lot of noncreature spells. I just cut mine down about a week ago because they didn't help me with Reforge the Soul.
I placed second at the gathering last night. I let my brother use my faerie deck, and he finished first.
I played against Melira Pod(2-1),
Zoo(2-0, hit bonfires at impeccable times),
some jank reanimate(2-0),
Ætherless Elves(2-0), RWU control(2-0),
and faeries in the 'ship round. I just passed the win to my brother rather than play my faerie deck again.
MVP- Bonfire of the Damned. It messed up Melira Pod, turned Zoo into its slave, and devoured elves. Having two mained instead of Tarfire has helped out a ridiculous amount. It swings any serious aggro matchup in my favor, and even if my opponent has a board sweep as well, I've got plenty of draw power to get right back to where I need to be.
Runner-up- Frogtosser Banneret. Sometimes my vials get blown up or exiled. It's so nice to have something else that knocks the cost of my lords down some, along with Sensation Gorger, Harbingers, and my new one-of Siege-Gang Commander(wicked kill card. Enough said).
I've looked over most of the recent posts here, and while spike jester looks good I can't say it makes sense to bring it in over war marshall when we're running goblin grenade and foundry street denizen.
In general what I don't get is this sideboard as posted - what are all of these cards for? My guesses:
grafdiggers - pod, storm, reanimator (but not living end). Why this over relic?
blood moon - anyone with a greedy mana base, tron,
dismember - i see this in the board of so many decks and have no idea when we bring it in. Is this for.. infect? tarmogoyf? twin?
skullcrack - martyr proc? or just if we expect finks/helix?
smash - easy one, affinity, maybe pod
anger of hte gods - do we roll this vs pod because it hurts them way more than it hurts us? Seems like a bit of a bizzare sideboard card for this deck since its very good against us :S
pillar of flame - guessing finks but pod generally?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Modern
* Esper Draw-Go
* Tezzeret Whir
* Blue Tron
@plolymorph:
Nice that you are getting your deck complete!
For the caverns, I run only 2 since it can become a bit anoying with terminate and rakdos charm sometimes. My meta is rather havy with UWr and I don't really feel like needing more (I own 4). You have with cavern + vial 6 ways to get around counterspells that should be enough. If you don't run to many non-creatures that are manaheavy you can certainly just go up to 4 that is what I do in legacy where I only run things cavern can't help with 1 red in the manacost. (ok en cavern lackey go! is insane but still :p)
I don't really see why everybody has so much trouble against soul sisters? I never lost against them. When they gain life it is more like 'whatever, I'll just hit a bit harder' ok the 6/6 lifelink is anoying but still... But I have to admit that krenko helps a lot here since he makes my board exponentially bigger.
Funny enough harbringer is a stay... He always gets a chieftain or my one-off siege-gang (one time a tarfire to finish off the game). the cool part is that I often set my vial to 4 as soon as I have a lord out that sticks so that I can harbing a siege-gang, up the vial and vial him in.
I started writing on the primer adding the RB (and some things about white). If anyone sees a list in a gpt/gp/ptq somewhere or has a result himself please send me the list ;). Otherwise I'll start at my GP-list to make the breakdown.
@Ernest you have some details on how the match against birthing pod went? I have troubel against that deck so I'd like to know how you handle it.
Soul Sisters have some very aggressive Starts. T1 Serras Ascendant into T2 Martyr and a lot of times it is gg until you kill the Ascendant.
I agree with the Caverns. I'd like to run more, but Charm and Terminate prevent it. It's not necessary either, you just mentioned it, we have a lot of ways to cheat Gobs into Game.
Has anyone noticed how expensive the List has become? I looked up my list and the prices and recognized, i already paid about 250€ (~300$) for Fetches, Vial, Goblin Guide, Blood Crypt, Cavern of Souls and so on. Luckily those Cards have also other applications
I've been thinking of splashing a touch of green for Chameleon Colossus. I don't have a 4-drop in my design yet, and I'd also be able to cheat him into play with an instigator. With Loyalist next to him, giving him trample and pro tokens, it seems like he could swing once and kill if you've got a beef lord and 4 mana to activate his ability(running vials like I do, I would most likely have mana to activate).
Wizards could barely reprint Goblin Matron or invent some really good 2cmc Goblin. That doesn't hurt anyone, at least the MOdern Meta.
Besides, i decide to run Marsh Flitter instead of Wort. It's so cute, i have to test it as a 2 of.
The Goblin Rabblemaster will replace the Lavamancer next month.
Green @ it's best
I'd like to expand it by writing about the Aether Vial Version with B/W/G-Splash.
And why is Goblin Guide raising in Prize ATM? Is there any important Deck running him that i don't know?
Green @ it's best
All I could think while reading this was, "what good two drop lords are there in legacy for goblins..."
Faeries and merfolk work because they can be backed by powerhouse counters and removal. Goblins don't have that luxury.
And yes, you're right about banneret.
To an extent.
He doesn't work good in some decks, but speeds mine right up. He's more for a vial-lord deck(like mine) instead of a RDW version. Personally, I still think that vial-lords are the way to go, because goblins get pretty beefy fast. It's not uncommon for most of them to be able to survive an early Pyroclasm if they have to. Sure, the RDW version might have more turn two damage, but based off of my testing, they can't keep up when you're casting lords and pumping out other goblins with vial. plus, a well placed tarfire/bolt ruins everything against the RDW version.
An addition?
Guide is rising in value?
I don't think that it would make my mana base unstable, it would just force me to use fetch lands. I've got not problem with that, I just try my hardest to make it so a deck doesn't need them. But, in some cases(3+ colors), you have to use them.
I'm glad harbinger is working good for you as well. I've only ever ran 2, and it seems perfect to me. Hence why I haven't changed it.
Your right about Banneret. I did cut Spike Jester out for him. And to be honest, I'm glad I did. Jesters speedy and nice, don't get me wrong. But that added drop on lords(from banneret) is clutch.
Venture back to Lorwyn, anybody?
On a different note: Tested my goblin deck Against my faerie deck.
Lordy Lordy, what was I thinking?
Game one was rough. Lost to bitterblossom and Scion of Oona. And counters. Everything important was countered. My brother was using my faeries, and they loved him. My first turn vial got spell pierced. My second turn Instigator was Remanded. My third turn chieftain was Mana Leaked. I finally got a Loyalist to stick 4th turn. He played a Bitterblossom. Fifth turn I miracled Reforge the Soul, played a Chieftain, swung for 4. He dropped a land, thoughtseized(bye bye new chieftain), passed turn. Flashed in a Pestermite tapping my loyalist(what?), spellstuttered my auntie, boomerang'ed my chieftain.
Great.
After that, it was a flurry of cryptic commands and him flashing in faeries at the end of my turn. No contest.
Game 2 was even worse. I went first, and that didn't help much. My vial hit, only to get bounced back to my hand three turns later and inquisitioned. I was hit with an Exhaustion on his third turn, so ALL my creatures and lands were tapped for my fourth except my land drop for turn. After that, it was once again, a bunch of counters and discard until I was top decking. Then faeries being flashed in at the end of my turn.
I'm never going to play against my faerie deck again.
Ever.
And I also see why people get so frustrated playing against it. You think you're getting somewhere, but you really aren't.
Cavern of Souls really helps nowadays.
If you run MonoRed you'd like to play teh full 4. The Meta is Counter-heavy and Cavern is teh easiest way to ignore that kind of disruption.
You got so many problems with Sweepers, Bolts, Snapcasters flashing Bolts back, Path to Exile, Thoughtseize that leaving Cavern in your Sticker Album is simpy the wrong answer.
Like every other Deck, Goblins have weaknesses. And Fearies may be a very bad matchup for us.
But also Faeries have to deal with a lot of problems. So don't be upset because of my criticism.
I just getting started with the Vial List as i'm running MonoR until now.
Frogtosser Banneret is ok like teh other 2cmc Gobs, but nothing more. Legacy Decks has Goblin Piledriver!!!!!
That damned thing is awesome. it rocks.
Green @ it's best
I run 3 Caverns, I just wasn't lucky enough to hit one. I run three because they interfere with Reforge the Soul if I have to hard-cast it. A few times I wasn't able to cast it because I had two Caverns on the board, and i felt jipped out those games.
Like I said before, sweeps really aren't a problem. Yes, third turn Anger of the Gods messes me up, but it does that to any aggro deck. I can at least survive Pyroclasm on turn three(sometimes turn 2), so that's a good start.
I wouldn't consider Piledriver to be a lord, but he's definitely a Huge staple in legacy goblins.
Good luck with vial-goblins! I'd love to see your list once you have the foundation figured out.
yesterday i dig through some crap cards at my local store and found Boil.
Is that able to deal with Fish and there creepy Spreading Seas ?
2nd one: The longer i look at my new, beautiful Marsh Flitter i get the feeling he works as a Sac Outlet.
Goblin Arsonist, Mogg War Marshal, Tuktuk the Explorer... not the best we can do.
Is there any possibility to blink him? Could he even work with Blood Artist?
oh yes, my mistake, Piledriver is indeed no Lord. What i meant was a real 2cmc bomb, not Lord
Green @ it's best
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Legion Loyalist
4 Mogg Fanatic
4 Foundry Street Denizen
4 Goblin Guide
4 Goblin Bushwhacker
4 Spike Jester
2 Terminate
Three Drops (8):
4 Goblin Chieftain
4 Boggart Ram-Gang
Other (4):
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Auntie's Hovel
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
4 Gemstone Mine
2 Mountain
The tournament was a GPT, 35ish players, 6 swiss rounds, big prizes.
Round 1 vs Martyr Life: 2-1 (1-0-0)
I don't usually put Leyline of Punishment in my side as Martyr's not that common a deck and the leyline basically has this corner case use only, so this was a really bad matchup.
G1: mulligan to 6 he mulliganed to 5, I won t4 as he was too slow
G2: double Ghostly Prison t3+t4 and I just scooped
G3: he mulliganed to 5 again and managed to push a t3 win
Round 2 vs Tribal Zoo: 0-2 (1-1-0)
This match is really bad for me, I'm still trying to figure out a sideboard strategy able to give me a chance against Zoo, maybe Blood Moon is the answer.
G1=G2: Lightning Helixes and bigger monsters, nothing I can really do to win.
Round 3 vs Blue Moon: 2-1 (2-1-0)
G1: He's been overrun by goblins and I won t5 as he couldn't counter my threats (thank you, Cavern of Souls)
G2: He locked me with plenty or removals and Vedalken Shackles
G3: He raced him to 2 life, but he locked me again with two Anger of The Gods t3+t4 and a couple Stormbreath Dragon on the field, then I killed him with a Lightning Bolt after flooding: he could Remand it by I had plenty of mana to recast it as many times I wanted.
Round 4 vs GR Tron: 2-1 (3-1-0)
G1: I had a hand full of 1-drops and swarmed him, he cast a Wurmcoil Engine trying to survive, but Legion Loyalist's made me deal enough damage before Wurmcoil's lifelink could save him.
G2: Slow start for me, Pyroclasm on my few drops and an early Wurmcoil made me scoop
G3: Fast hand, early Pyroclasm, I killed him with my multiple threats with haste and a bolt in the face
Round 5 vs UR Twin: 1-2 (3-2-0)
G1: Mulligan to 5 vs turn 4 combo, meh
G2: Good hand, but he finally managed to control the field when he was at 1 life point. He dropped an EoT Pestermite and I killed him with a Rakdos Charm.
G3: I mana screwed and wasn't able to deliver threats AND have the answer for his combo. In the end I just died.
Round 6 vs Tooth and Nail devotion: 2-0 (4-2-0)
G1: Insanely aggro'd him, he had no answer and just died quickly.
G2: He had more answers post-side, but I had no way to stay alive AND build devotion. Having to lose devotion enablers to stop the goblin wave I was able to overrun him in the end well before he could have the option to use Tooth and Nail.
Comments:
This was my sideboard:
3x Eidolon of The Great Revel vs Storm
3x Torpor Orb vs Twin
3x Goblin King vs Zoo (didn't see him, more on this later)
3x Combust again vs Twin, came to use vs Martyr
3x Rakdos Charm vs well, anything as it a Jack of All Trades, BTW is there vs Twin
As you can see I have King in my side exactly for Zoo, I didn't see it but I feel it won't be so effective as he plays Helixes, Bolts and PTEs, while with Blood Moon you can color screw him (less Helix, less PTE, less creatures) and make his creatures smaller as he plays very few basics and I don't give him extra lands with PTEs.
BTW Blood Moon could be useful against more decks, so I must give it a try.
Simian Spirit Guid gives incredible acceleration to our game, I won a lot of them just early dropping stuff like in Spike Jester + Bushwhacker or Loyalist+Guide+Bushwhacker T3, one of them kept into hand can also give you the extra mana to cast Rakdos Charm/Combust when Pestermite/Exarch taps one of your lands.
I agree on your choice with Dismember/Terminate split, it was already on ballot vs terminate before the tournament for my two slots :>
Denizen proved strong even without Marshal, less than 3/* has been a rare thing during the tournament (t1 denizen + t2 denizen + bushwacker - kicked by simian - is a 9 damage t2)
List tags are malformed.
Worship Troll > 0x2
Worship entering t2. I dont have enchant removal and cant kill Thrun the last troll. Nothing i can do about it.
Delver Spirits > 1x2
I dont knew the deck, then was surprised by huge hexproof flying tokens.
Through the Breach 2x0
Emrakul connected game 1 and destroy all my permanents, but i could rebuild my field and finish him. Game 2 Earwig squad + spiked jester won the game
Aura Hexproof > 2x1
Daybreak Coronet stopped my stompy, game 1. Side In: Inquisition + Warren Weirding. I stayed removing creatures from hand or by sacrifice then he cant recover.
MonoBlack Control > 0x2
Raven's Crime was the big star! Liliana of The veil and smallpox helped
Twin > 2x0
I have a lot of removals. Side In: 3 Inquisition Kozilek + 1 Terminate + 3 Rakdos Charm
Pod > 2x1
Noble Hierarch + Birds started too fast for his side, but lords stompy!
U Tron > 0x2
Wurmcoil + Destiny Stone done the job. Earwig Squad helped a lot game 2: removed 2 wurmcoil + 1 mindslaver. I felt safe, only need destroy Platinum Angel with Tin Street Hooligan at hand. He had a 2nd Mindslaver at started hand! And locked me.
Battle of Wits > 2x1
First game i dont realized how many cards he had, then when Battle of the Wits entered its too late. After i assumed a explosive strategy. t4 and t5 win.
Venser control > 2x0
Almost I've been locked game 1, but Murderous Redcap + lords finished the game. Game 2 stompy!
Using This List
4 Mogg Fanatic
2 Legion Loyalist
4 Warren Instigator
4 Spike Jester
2 Boggart Ram-Gang
4 Goblin Chieftain
3 Mad Auntie
2 Goblin King
2 Hearthfire Hobgoblin
1 Mirror Entity
1 Murderous Redcap
1 Wort, Boggart Auntie
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Terminate
[artifact]
4 Aether Vial
[land]
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Auntie's Hovel
4 Blood Crypt
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
2 Reflecting Pool
1 Copperline Gorge
1 Mountain
2 Earwig Squad
1 Goblin King
3 Rakdos Charm
2 Tin Street Hooligan
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
2 Warren Weirding
1 Terminate
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
Considerations
- Mogg Fanatic shining every game he been entered.
- Spike Jester still one of the best goblins i have.
- Mirror Entity turns the battlefield. Enters by Vial then untapped mana makes huge Goblins. Won 3 or 4 games this way.
- I cut off 2x Boggart Ram-Gang because helps, but often is not the best option in hand.
- I replaced 2x Smash to Smithereens for 2x Tin Street Hooligan. Almost 7 G lands, then no problem until now.
- Earwig Squad is strong helpful and easy played by prowl cost.
- Kozilek Inquisition works for me like an extra removals. Helped a lot against Twin and Pod.
Ideas
- I replaced Krenko, Mob Boss for Wort, Boggart Auntie. Almos ever side out Krenko, then i like try Wort again.
- Testing Murderous Redcap. Top of curve, but i have 9 lords MD, ever enters damaging 4+.
- I changed my manabase. Working good. Never had problems with Reflecting Pool until now, ever is a RB Dual, and sometimes a 5th 6th cavern. Thinking about test Gemstone Mine like @Joneleth Irenicus Mentioned before.
Modern
RBW Goblins
XU ArcMUD
Mogg Fanatic was awesome. Pinged his T1 Ascendant, Sisters and Martyr
What really anoys my is Ghost Quarter and Path to Exile which hurts after playing Boggart Harbinger.
We got 6 matches and a 2:4 record for me...either it's even better than my MonoR Build before.
Green @ it's best
It'd slow you down. You would have to take your whole third turn(if you aren't running vials, which I think is crazy) just to drop Everlasting Torment, or your 4th to drop Leyline(if it wasn't in your opening hand).
Talk about slowing the deck down drastically.
Third turn is when a goblin deck should really explode. "Boom! I've got 6 goblins in play, and 2-3 of them are lords."
Not, "I guess I'll play this E.T. And declare attack phase.." this scenario doesn't seem like it would help one bit.
If you're looking for a way to kill before the guaranteed board clear on turn 4, you'll definitely want different support cards. I've been thinking of taking out Tarfire(I never tutor for it, and I always wish it was more damage) to main Bonfire of the Damned. Bonfire is beast, and with only two main decked, I won't have to worry about it popping up in my opening hand.
There's also an instant that's 1BR and does three damage to each creature and each player called Spontaneous Combustion, Which I sadly just found out that was reprinted in a duel deck and not in a modern set. Which kinda grinds my gears.
Anyway.
I think that we need to find ways to deal with pesky enchantments. We could definitely function with our opponents resolving a Blood Moon, but it would slow down Any deck that splashed in black. And I did a little more than "a splash."
EDIT: REPRINT Goblin Ringleader ALREADY! Cheeseandrice, Wizards.
4 Festering Goblin
3 Legion Loyalist
2 Spikeshot Elder
4 Warren Instigator
3 Frogtosser Banneret
4 Goblin Chieftain
4 Mad Auntie
2 Goblin King
2 Boggart Harbinger
1 Sensation Gorger
1 Siege-Gang Commander
4 Æther Vial
3 Reforge the Soul
2 Bonfire of the Damned
[Land(21)]
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
4 Auntie's Hovel
3 Blood Crypt
3 Cavern of Souls
1 Graven Cairns
2 Mountain
1 Swamp
3 Mutavault
4 Spellskite
4 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Bonfire of the Damned
2 Shatterstorm
3 Earwig Squad
12 Mountain
2 Sulfurous Springs
4 Dragonskull Summit
Creatures
4 Tattermunge Maniac
4 Legion Loyalist
4 Goblin Bushwhacker
4 Goblin Arsonist
3 Goblin Wardriver
3 Spike Jester
2 Sensation Gorger
2 Mad Auntie
4 Goblin Chieftain
2 Krenko, Mob Boss
1 Wort, Boggart Auntie
3 Goblin Grenade
2 Shared Animosity
2 Shrine of Burning Rage
this is a deck i built recently after looking at a lot of decks on mtgdecks.net
i wanted to go for something really versatile and resilient. the only thing i'm skeptical of is shrine of burning rage because it's stupid to play it mid or late game and in early game it will deprive you of your turn two- but it can still win you games and rewards you for longer games. so i'm not sure. there's a lack of removal as well, i do have bolts and terminates in my card pool but i want sensation gorger to work. any advice is welcome.
now for some evaluation of specific cards:
GOBLIN ARSONIST - i like this guy over mogg fanatic because it means 6 damage with goblin grenade and can kill 2-toughness creatures or two different 1-toughness creatures as a chump blucker. i think this outweighs mogg fanatic's instant speed.
GOBLIN GRENADE - i wouldn't want to play a full set of these. it's meant to use with the more expendable goblins (arsonist, bushwhacker after it's kicker) and as a sorta finisher after an alpha strike.
MAD AUNTIE - the regen ability is SO useful. chump block something and get your goblin back or save krenko/chieftain/wort from bolts and stuff. plus the lord thing.
GOBLIN WARDRIVER - this guy feels clunky as hell. he IS slow but he's like a mini lord when it's time to swing. it may not seem much but with a shared animosity or a lord or two it all adds up. plus loyalist = massive raid.
SENSATION GORGER - slow if cast on your third turn, but it makes up for it later. this guy makes sure you never topdeck and can really make you win the game. bonus: the face on your opponent when they have to let go their hand and draw a new one- sometimes a smaller one or full of useless land.
BTW i know my land base is ***** and no cavern of souls or aether vial 'cause i'm somewhat budget and won't pay more than 6$ for a card.
I just miss Warren Instigator which i'll get next week.
My List was the one posted on page 24, except i replaced Lavamancer with Facevaulter (which was quiet bad).
I tested vs. Pod, MonoU Tron and Storm just for fun.
What i recognized:
Facevaulter is just bad. It does literally nothing to improve my board state and died many times.
Krenko,Mob Boss only shines when smuggling into game with Warren Instigator or when Chieftain is on board.
I cut him to experiment with Hellrider.
I don't want it, but some players watching my matches highly recommended to add Goblin Guide to the Deck. Mogg Fanatic is simply a 1/1 in some MU and nothing more. It stays as a 2-of until Rabblemaster will be released.
Rakdos Charm also wasn't very exciting. It was a dead draw many times as there have been no artifacts, GY cards to remove or many creatures onboard. It jumps to my sideboard as a 3-of.
What exactly is teh right amount of Cavern of Souls? i run 2, but maybe it's a 4-of?
I'm a bit lazy of typing down my list, so it's in the attachment
Green @ it's best
Weird.
My Festering Goblins take down creatures with 2-4 toughness(2 with toughness of 1 a lot of the time as well) at least once a game. Maybe you aren't using them right?
I used Facevaulter as a way to counter spot removal.
I didn't like it, either.
I'd say run 3 Caverns if you have a lot of noncreature spells. I just cut mine down about a week ago because they didn't help me with Reforge the Soul.
I placed second at the gathering last night. I let my brother use my faerie deck, and he finished first.
I played against Melira Pod(2-1),
Zoo(2-0, hit bonfires at impeccable times),
some jank reanimate(2-0),
Ætherless Elves(2-0),
RWU control(2-0),
and faeries in the 'ship round. I just passed the win to my brother rather than play my faerie deck again.
MVP- Bonfire of the Damned. It messed up Melira Pod, turned Zoo into its slave, and devoured elves. Having two mained instead of Tarfire has helped out a ridiculous amount. It swings any serious aggro matchup in my favor, and even if my opponent has a board sweep as well, I've got plenty of draw power to get right back to where I need to be.
Runner-up- Frogtosser Banneret. Sometimes my vials get blown up or exiled. It's so nice to have something else that knocks the cost of my lords down some, along with Sensation Gorger, Harbingers, and my new one-of Siege-Gang Commander(wicked kill card. Enough said).
4 Foundry Street Denizen
4 Goblin Bushwhacker
4 Goblin Chieftain
4 Goblin Guide
2 Goblin Wardriver
4 Legion Loyalist
2 Mogg Fanatic
4 Mogg War Marshal
4 Simian Spirit Guide
15 Mountain
3 Cavern of Souls
Spells (10)
2 Shared Animosity
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Goblin Grenade
2 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Blood Moon
2 Dismember
2 Skullcrack
3 Smash to Smithereens
2 Anger of the Gods
2 Pillar of Flame
I've looked over most of the recent posts here, and while spike jester looks good I can't say it makes sense to bring it in over war marshall when we're running goblin grenade and foundry street denizen.
In general what I don't get is this sideboard as posted - what are all of these cards for? My guesses:
grafdiggers - pod, storm, reanimator (but not living end). Why this over relic?
blood moon - anyone with a greedy mana base, tron,
dismember - i see this in the board of so many decks and have no idea when we bring it in. Is this for.. infect? tarmogoyf? twin?
skullcrack - martyr proc? or just if we expect finks/helix?
smash - easy one, affinity, maybe pod
anger of hte gods - do we roll this vs pod because it hurts them way more than it hurts us? Seems like a bit of a bizzare sideboard card for this deck since its very good against us :S
pillar of flame - guessing finks but pod generally?
* Esper Draw-Go
* Tezzeret Whir
* Blue Tron
hmm, isn't it 8 ways anyway? I have Warren Instigator too
Soul Sisters have some very aggressive Starts. T1 Serras Ascendant into T2 Martyr and a lot of times it is gg until you kill the Ascendant.
I agree with the Caverns. I'd like to run more, but Charm and Terminate prevent it. It's not necessary either, you just mentioned it, we have a lot of ways to cheat Gobs into Game.
Has anyone noticed how expensive the List has become? I looked up my list and the prices and recognized, i already paid about 250€ (~300$) for Fetches, Vial, Goblin Guide, Blood Crypt, Cavern of Souls and so on. Luckily those Cards have also other applications
Green @ it's best