Do you think warchief is still necessary even with the full playset of frogtosser banneret? I'm not high on warren instigator, seems slow at 2 mana and no evasion makes me wonder why its played. Prospector is another source of mana so maybe i could play more of those.
The curve is kind of high with 12 3 drops and 4x 4 drops... I'm not against more haste enablers so maybe warchief is worth it.
Yes, I would run a combination of Frogtosser and Warchief so you have at least 6 total of those cards in the deck. I don't know if you need 4 knucklebone, worth trying. But yes, if you want your deck to be competitive, and your not using vial, then you need a way to dump goblins onto the battlefield cheaply and quickly. 4 Frogtosser, 4 Skirk, and 2 Warchief might be a perfect mix.
^ Goblins without Aether Vial seems suboptimal indeed.
@Piney_Tinecones
Alright, i'll try to keep open mind regarding 2-ofs issue, maybe you're right.
I see the Knucklebone Witch+Mogg War Marshal+Skirk Prospector potential of previous versions, but if i am not sacking Marshal i always feel like i am just upgrading my gobos without getting too much power, the Eldritch Evolution but it searches your hand only. I tried hidden sleeper instead - Facevaulter (half joke, it was suprisingly effective). Wort, Boggart Auntie is... probably classic "win more". When opponent was out of resources, it buried him deeper and closed the game. But it won't pull you ahead from losing position usually. Still i didn't give up on her.
Since i got free time after uni exams and before holiday program, i can devout a bit more time to this right now, so i'll be just bouncing some ideas here:
So my thoughts on this deck and my first iteration is to max out on the sac effects, refueling with Ringleader and cutting costs with Frogtosser Banneret and Goblin Warchief. Something like this:
This configuration only leaves three slots. The obvious glut is at 3cc and Pashalik Mons is legendary, so I think it would be good to trim that by one. I also think we could trim a Warchief or two. That leaves 4-6 slots to play with. Here are the other cards I would like to get in:
I feel like we need to have a good curve, so I would like to be at 10-12 one drops. To start, I would add some Knucklebone Witches to fit the theme of expendable goblins.
We definitely need at least three Munitions Experts. To make room for these, I think we should trim two Goblin Warchief.
Admittedly, this deck would be very weak to Plague Engineer, but that would be post board and such is the life of goblins.
I left out cute one-ofs like Siege-Gang Commander, Krenko, Mob Boss, and Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker to lower the CMC, though I could be convinced of adding a Krenko as a follow up to Sling-Gang Lieutenant to just win the game.
I may be going too hot and heavy on the passive damage given by Sling-Gang Lieutenant and it may be correct to trim one, but I want to try the full set.
Sideboard-wise, I think all of these are reasonable inclusions:
Are there any easier ways to buff our goblins as a hedge against sweepers such as Anger of the Gods or Plague Engineer? Is anyone running a build focused on the life drain from Pashalik Mons and Sling-Gang Lieutenant?
Fire, aim, ready goblin players!
(Edited because I forgot about Knucklebone Witch, a card I have from way back in the day and inspired this version.)
I'm a big fan on the all-in Slinggang plan and it's what I'm currently building on. Whenever I see a new deck pop up in modern my first question is "are you not just playing a worse version of an established deck?". I think Goblins can answer that question by being a creature aggro deck that is, hilariously, almost immune to removal.
Spot removal? All my creatures have etb value, are two-for ones, or too individually small to matter.
Wraths? Alright, sac my entire board and drain you with Pashalik Mons and Sling-Gang.
You survived the onslaught? Cool, completely refill my hand with Matron and Ringleader and instantly redeploy with Vial and Banneret.
This is the strength of the Archetype and I think the angle that should be pressed to not just be bad humans or bad burn.
The list I'm running now is similar to your list, but with these notes:
a. Although sling-gang and ringleader are core to our strategy, you just can't run 8 4-drops. It's too much. I've moved one of each to the sideboard for grindier matchups.
b. Either Warchief or Chieftain is a 4-of, and I don;t know which one yet. I feel Warchief fits the strategy better, but Chieftain might just be more powerful. I'm still testing this.
c. I haven't tried knucklebone Witch yet. I'm not that excited myself, as I think it will just absorb removal and is a good way to set yourself up to be blown out. But since it's a 1-drop and our one-drops are just kind of poopy, maybe it's worth it. I do think Tarfire is an underrated card though.
If left unchecked, it often achieves a turn 4 (sometimes turn 3) explosion through Skirk+Empty. Effectively, the idea is to play 3-4 goblins, sac them to get mana, get a lot of tokens and bushwhack. It may appear demanding on paper, but in practice there there are many lines that achieve the desired outcome (especially with Unearth+Matron serving for an discounted Matron). In general, Unearth enables a ton of fun synergies, such as reanimating Marshal turn 3 and bushwhacking for 10.
Hi all! Coming from trying to make Skirk+Fecundity competitive, my brewing has arrived at this list that incorporates a mini-combo finish:
If left unchecked, it often achieves a turn 4 (sometimes turn 3) explosion through Skirk+Empty. Effectively, the idea is to play 3-4 goblins, sac them to get mana, get a lot of tokens and bushwhack. It may appear demanding on paper, but in practice there there are many lines that achieve the desired outcome (especially with Unearth+Matron serving for an discounted Matron). In general, Unearth enables a ton of fun synergies, such as reanimating Marshal turn 3 and bushwhacking for 10.
I think you would pull your hair out when you have two Frogtosser Banneret on the battlefield and Goblin Bushwhacker in hand. Spending all that mana on two 1/1 creatures that don't help you cast some of your finishers will cost games.
Goblin Chieftain most of the time is simply going to be a better card as you go more mid-range in a build. If I want to take advantage of cost-reduction, give me the chieftain for RR that gives me a permanent Bushwacker effect as an example.
If your going to play Ringleader, you really have to treat it like a collected company. 35 creatures is the minimum number of creatures I would want in a deck with him. Ensuring you hit at least 2 creatures is huge. Playing Ringleader ending up finding one goblin and empty the warrens, putting warrens on the bottom of your library is not going to go well.
Thanks for the reply @Hellgrammite.
I think I don't understand very well what you're saying about Banneret+Bushwhacker; do you mean that it's possible to be threat light with this configuration? If so, can't I mulligan the exact hand you describe? (I imagine it's almost impossible to not have anything else.) My problem with Chieftain is that a) redundant copies don't help to increase storm count without losing mana, b) it's a very clear target that I think goblins in general try to avoid (Bushwhacker would at least net value for one turn, because we're not playing in a vacuum) and c) removal can stop the lethal turn I'm trying to create.
I agree with Ringleader needing 35 creatures to get the hit rate you mention, but I've found no current solution for what I'm trying to do (this is why I include only 3 copies). I must say that, despite the nombo of finding Empty the Warrens (which itself is a very good enough finisher that I'd like to maintain), can itself not count as a creature too (so that it needs only one highly consistent hit to net value)? Perhaps I could try to change unearths for more goblins, but I'll need to try them first, because Unearth feels like a very powerful card every time I play it.
@maniospas
-Def play the deck a lot. I have tested Ringleader a lot this week, and it really helps me go wide if need be.
-Here is my current decklist. I made further tweaks today after going undefeated yesterday, but just barely. With Ringleader and Matron, I find myself full of goblins. Pashalik Mons, Krenko, Mob Boss, Sling-Gang Lieutenant and Skirk Prospector are all goblins that can be tutored/drawn, that can tap to attack, or simply aristocrat bleed an enemy to death. Last night I beat B/W Zombies by simply tapping Krenko for two turns to make 12 goblin tokens with haste.
-I might lose knucklebone witch for another legion loyalist. It doesn't seem as effective as I thought when I actually cast it.
sideboard is still a work in progress. Still missing cavern #3-4 and auntie'S hovel #4, played with blood crypts instead.
The deck is very fun and effective, you have aggression and value and reach.
Goblin ringleader is nuts in this deck, especially with all the acceleration.
No fetchlands seems good with ringleader, you never shuffle the stuff you put on the bottom back in the deck.
Love the deck, gonna play some more and do some tweaking.
I play zero piledrivers, they are very bad in combat, not worth it unless you play the 8 whack aggro version with legion loyalists.
I play 4x marshals, they are just good goblin fodder.
Here's my updated list:
I streamlined the deck a bit, removing the one ofs, making the deck very consistent.
I'm playing tarfire because we lack other turn one action, i dislike legion loyalist and knucklebone witch. The extra removal has been very useful.
My experience playing with the deck convinced me that we should run 8x cost reducing goblins, those effects are totally busted with matron and ringleader.
I also think that for the most part running the painless mana base helps a lot. The non shuffling thing i mentionned in my last post doesn't actually make sense since matron shuffles our deck, but, unless you plan on playing black non-goblin cards in the sideboard, i don't see a reason to hurt ourselves when we can have near-perfect painless mana. For this reason i plan on removing warren weirding from the sideboard for maybe engineered explosives vs bogles.
I would strongly disagree, and say that playing 3 Piledrivers is not a bad option at all.
The protection from blue is very relevant, making you able to race decks like Dredge (Amalgam and Narcomoeba can't block), Urza Thopter (the thopters are blue), UR Phoenix (Thing in the Ice), Storm (both creatures can't block), and makes your UW Control matchup even better. It's pretty strong against any combo deck, which is one of Goblins' weaknesses. Also doesn't die to Plague Engineer, which is an important upside as well.
They have to be blocked most of the time, which makes them act like a removal spell which is also a creature. It's completely nuts with Warchief.
Edit: I would still play a Tarfire as well, pretty good Matron target if you need it and decent extra removal.
I would strongly disagree, and say that playing 3 Piledrivers is not a bad option at all.
The protection from blue is very relevant, making you able to race decks like Dredge (Amalgam and Narcomoeba can't block), Urza Thopter (the thopters are blue), UR Phoenix (Thing in the Ice), Storm (both creatures can't block), and makes your UW Control matchup even better. It's pretty strong against any combo deck, which is one of Goblins' weaknesses. Also doesn't die to Plague Engineer, which is an important upside as well.
They have to be blocked most of the time, which makes them act like a removal spell which is also a creature. It's completely nuts with Warchief.
Edit: I would still play a Tarfire as well, pretty good Matron target if you need it and decent extra removal.
All of those are best case scenario. I don't think cards should be evaluated this way.
Protection is a busted keyword, but blue is probably the worst protection a creature could have in this format. There is not a single piece of removal i can think of that is blue, and piledriver can be countered making the immunity to interaction aspect of protection useless. There are very few commonly played creatures that it can block, making this other aspect of protection bad.
While piledriver may be good vs some creatures in a given deck, it is never good against the whole deck. Dredge/hoogak have other creatures they can use to block. Phoenix has red creatures they can use to block it or fly over it all day. Urza/thopter have the construct token and the thopter will whipe all other attacking goblins. Plague engineer kills other goblins that we would need to pump it to make it a good attacker, and the few 2/2 we have would die in combat to the engineer itself if we attack with them.
The removal by attacking thing isn't that great value, because even when you have potential good attacks with piledriver you need to commit other creatures to combat, and those other attacks might be bad making it very awkward. I've played with piledriver in other decks a long time ago and thats the worst about them, for them to be good you would need to send all your stuff and make bad attacks, and if you don't do that they just sit there doing nothing.
The fact that it is good in combo matchups (not based on creatures) might be an argument to play it, but it seems the card has all properties of a sideboard card at best, not a maindeck one. There is not a single card in my main deck list i would cut for it. I'm not really sure what purpose it would serve in the deck.
nice discussion on the relevance of Piledriver to the deck. Literally, an entire gob deck is in my SCG cart right now.. and I'm modifying it as I get bits of ideas from experienced pilots in gob threads.
____________
another question. I've been seeing something between 2 to 4 chieftain in various builds. Plus a single trashmaster or even mad auntie in others. Typically since these lords are the ones to be sniped by opponent's removal.. how many +1/+1 lords do we put into the deck?
You need them to have a reasonable shot versus noninteractive combo decks; without them, Goblins goldfishes too slow. Pro blue is also very relevant; you can attack through Snapcasters, through thing in the ice, block awoken horror forever, and dredge has no creature that can block it (forget Hogaak, it's gone next week). And together with a tutorable Legion Loyalist, it can crush through any boardstall for lethal.
I was 100% on the Frogtosser Banneret train at the start but I'm now convinced the card is too weak. The acceleration is great, but individually it is rarely worth a card, needing multiple Ringleaders to be worth the investment.
Yes, I would run a combination of Frogtosser and Warchief so you have at least 6 total of those cards in the deck. I don't know if you need 4 knucklebone, worth trying. But yes, if you want your deck to be competitive, and your not using vial, then you need a way to dump goblins onto the battlefield cheaply and quickly. 4 Frogtosser, 4 Skirk, and 2 Warchief might be a perfect mix.
You're not competitive without vial, full stop.
@Piney_Tinecones
Alright, i'll try to keep open mind regarding 2-ofs issue, maybe you're right.
I see the Knucklebone Witch+Mogg War Marshal+Skirk Prospector potential of previous versions, but if i am not sacking Marshal i always feel like i am just upgrading my gobos without getting too much power, the Eldritch Evolution but it searches your hand only. I tried hidden sleeper instead - Facevaulter (half joke, it was suprisingly effective). Wort, Boggart Auntie is... probably classic "win more". When opponent was out of resources, it buried him deeper and closed the game. But it won't pull you ahead from losing position usually. Still i didn't give up on her.
Since i got free time after uni exams and before holiday program, i can devout a bit more time to this right now, so i'll be just bouncing some ideas here:
Le Fish Style...
4 Aether vial
4 Skirk Prospector
1 Legion Loyalist
3 Munitions Expert
4 Mogg War Marshal
1 Goblin Piledriver
4 Goblin King
4 Goblin Matron
2 Goblin Warchief
4 Goblin Ringleader
1 Sling-Gang Lieutenant
1 Siege-Gang Commander
3 Blood Moon
Instants:
3 Tarfire
Manabase:
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Prismatic Vista
3 Auntie's Hovel
3 Cavern of Souls
2 Blast Zone
2 Blood Crypt
2 Swamp
1 Mountain
2 Goblin Grenade
4 Tormod's Crypt
2 Earwig Squad
3 Thoughtseize
1 Wort, Boggart Auntie
1 Goblin Trashmaster
1 Munitions Expert
2 ??
Blood Moon+Goblin King interaction reffering to merfolk lords (Master of the Pearl Trident). You can take it even further with Goblin Mountaineer(lol).Skirk Prospector powering t2 Blood Moons. Manabase worked alright so far, might be a tad greedy. Between functionally 10 Swamps and 4 Vials you can usually play your black cards. Tarfire for denial of early action before Moon gets out.
3 Frogtosser Banneret
1 Goblin Instigator
2 Goblin Chieftain
1 Goblin Cratermaker
4 Goblin Matron
2 Goblin Piledriver
1 Goblin Rabblemaster
4 Goblin Ringleader
2 Goblin Warchief
2 Knucklebone Witch
1 Krenko, Mob Boss
4 Mogg War Marshal
2 Munitions Expert
1 Pashalik Mons
1 Siege-Gang Commander
4 Skirk Prospector
1 Sling-Gang Lieutenant
3 Aether Vial
Land 21
4 Auntie's Hovel
1 Blood Crypt
3 Bloodstained Mire
1 Cavern of Souls
2 Foreboding Ruins
9 Mountain
1 Swamp
4 Aether Vial
1cc Creatures
4 Skirk Prospector
2cc Creatures
4 Frogtosser Banneret
4 Mogg War Marshal
3cc Creatures
4 Goblin Warchief
4 Goblin Matron
4 Pashalik Mons
4 Goblin Ringleader
4 Sling-Gang Lieutenant
Lands
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Auntie’s Hovel
4 Bloodstained Mire
3 Blood Crypt
5 Mountain
1 Swamp
This configuration only leaves three slots. The obvious glut is at 3cc and Pashalik Mons is legendary, so I think it would be good to trim that by one. I also think we could trim a Warchief or two. That leaves 4-6 slots to play with. Here are the other cards I would like to get in:
I feel like we need to have a good curve, so I would like to be at 10-12 one drops. To start, I would add some Knucklebone Witches to fit the theme of expendable goblins.
We definitely need at least three Munitions Experts. To make room for these, I think we should trim two Goblin Warchief.
So here is where I plan to start:
4 Aether Vial
Creatures
1cc (8)
4 Skirk Prospector
4 Knucklebone Witch
2cc (11)
4 Frogtosser Banneret
4 Mogg War Marshall
3 Munitions Expert
3cc (8)
4 Goblin Matron
2 Pashalik Mons
1 Goblin Warchief
1 Goblin Chieftain
4 Goblin Ringleader
4 Sling-Gang Lieutenant
Lands
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Auntie’s Hovel
4 Bloodstained Mire
3 Blood Crypt
5 Mountain
1 Swamp
Admittedly, this deck would be very weak to Plague Engineer, but that would be post board and such is the life of goblins.
I left out cute one-ofs like Siege-Gang Commander, Krenko, Mob Boss, and Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker to lower the CMC, though I could be convinced of adding a Krenko as a follow up to Sling-Gang Lieutenant to just win the game.
I may be going too hot and heavy on the passive damage given by Sling-Gang Lieutenant and it may be correct to trim one, but I want to try the full set.
Sideboard-wise, I think all of these are reasonable inclusions:
Are there any easier ways to buff our goblins as a hedge against sweepers such as Anger of the Gods or Plague Engineer? Is anyone running a build focused on the life drain from Pashalik Mons and Sling-Gang Lieutenant?
Fire, aim, ready goblin players!
(Edited because I forgot about Knucklebone Witch, a card I have from way back in the day and inspired this version.)
Spot removal? All my creatures have etb value, are two-for ones, or too individually small to matter.
Wraths? Alright, sac my entire board and drain you with Pashalik Mons and Sling-Gang.
You survived the onslaught? Cool, completely refill my hand with Matron and Ringleader and instantly redeploy with Vial and Banneret.
This is the strength of the Archetype and I think the angle that should be pressed to not just be bad humans or bad burn.
The list I'm running now is similar to your list, but with these notes:
a. Although sling-gang and ringleader are core to our strategy, you just can't run 8 4-drops. It's too much. I've moved one of each to the sideboard for grindier matchups.
b. Either Warchief or Chieftain is a 4-of, and I don;t know which one yet. I feel Warchief fits the strategy better, but Chieftain might just be more powerful. I'm still testing this.
c. I haven't tried knucklebone Witch yet. I'm not that excited myself, as I think it will just absorb removal and is a good way to set yourself up to be blown out. But since it's a 1-drop and our one-drops are just kind of poopy, maybe it's worth it. I do think Tarfire is an underrated card though.
4 Skirk Prospector
4 Mogg War Marshal
2 Pashalik Mons
3 Goblin Bushwhacker
1 Reckless Bushwhacker
4 Goblin Matron
4 Frogtosser Banneret
3 Munitions Expert
3 Goblin Ringleader
3 Goblin Piledriver
1 Legion Loyalist
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Auntie's Hovel
2 Swamp
3 Mountain
3 Unclaimed Territory
4 Bloodstained Mire
1 Blood Crypt
4 Empty the Warrens
3 Unearth
If left unchecked, it often achieves a turn 4 (sometimes turn 3) explosion through Skirk+Empty. Effectively, the idea is to play 3-4 goblins, sac them to get mana, get a lot of tokens and bushwhack. It may appear demanding on paper, but in practice there there are many lines that achieve the desired outcome (especially with Unearth+Matron serving for an discounted Matron). In general, Unearth enables a ton of fun synergies, such as reanimating Marshal turn 3 and bushwhacking for 10.
GW Copycat
Jund Loam
I think you would pull your hair out when you have two Frogtosser Banneret on the battlefield and Goblin Bushwhacker in hand. Spending all that mana on two 1/1 creatures that don't help you cast some of your finishers will cost games.
Goblin Chieftain most of the time is simply going to be a better card as you go more mid-range in a build. If I want to take advantage of cost-reduction, give me the chieftain for RR that gives me a permanent Bushwacker effect as an example.
If your going to play Ringleader, you really have to treat it like a collected company. 35 creatures is the minimum number of creatures I would want in a deck with him. Ensuring you hit at least 2 creatures is huge. Playing Ringleader ending up finding one goblin and empty the warrens, putting warrens on the bottom of your library is not going to go well.
I think I don't understand very well what you're saying about Banneret+Bushwhacker; do you mean that it's possible to be threat light with this configuration? If so, can't I mulligan the exact hand you describe? (I imagine it's almost impossible to not have anything else.) My problem with Chieftain is that a) redundant copies don't help to increase storm count without losing mana, b) it's a very clear target that I think goblins in general try to avoid (Bushwhacker would at least net value for one turn, because we're not playing in a vacuum) and c) removal can stop the lethal turn I'm trying to create.
I agree with Ringleader needing 35 creatures to get the hit rate you mention, but I've found no current solution for what I'm trying to do (this is why I include only 3 copies). I must say that, despite the nombo of finding Empty the Warrens (which itself is a very good enough finisher that I'd like to maintain), can itself not count as a creature too (so that it needs only one highly consistent hit to net value)? Perhaps I could try to change unearths for more goblins, but I'll need to try them first, because Unearth feels like a very powerful card every time I play it.
GW Copycat
Jund Loam
-Def play the deck a lot. I have tested Ringleader a lot this week, and it really helps me go wide if need be.
-Here is my current decklist. I made further tweaks today after going undefeated yesterday, but just barely. With Ringleader and Matron, I find myself full of goblins. Pashalik Mons, Krenko, Mob Boss, Sling-Gang Lieutenant and Skirk Prospector are all goblins that can be tutored/drawn, that can tap to attack, or simply aristocrat bleed an enemy to death. Last night I beat B/W Zombies by simply tapping Krenko for two turns to make 12 goblin tokens with haste.
-I might lose knucklebone witch for another legion loyalist. It doesn't seem as effective as I thought when I actually cast it.
The sideboard I am revamping, with Goblin Chainwhirler and Stingscourger, along with more graveyard hate being needed.
3 Frogtosser Banneret
2 Goblin Chieftain
1 Goblin Cratermaker
1 Goblin Instigator
4 Goblin Matron
2 Goblin Piledriver
4 Goblin Ringleader
2 Goblin Warchief
1 Knucklebone Witch
1 Krenko, Mob Boss
1 Legion Loyalist
4 Mogg War Marshal
2 Munitions Expert
2 Pashalik Mons
4 Skirk Prospector
1 Sling-Gang Lieutenant
1 Wort, Boggart Auntie
4 Auntie's Hovel
1 Blood Crypt
3 Bloodstained Mire
1 Cavern of Souls
2 Foreboding Ruins
9 Mountain
1 Swamp
My updated list is:
4 skirk prospector
2 legion loyalist
4 mogg war marshal
4 frogtosser banneret
4 munitions expert
4 goblin chieftain
4 goblin matron
2 goblin warchief
1 mad auntie
1 pashalik mons
1 krenko, mob boss
1 sling-gang lieutenant
artifacts: 4
4 aether vial
lands: 20
4 cavern of souls
4 unclaimed territory
4 auntie's hovel
2 swamp
6 mountain
1 pashalik mons
1 sling-gang lieutenant
1 goblin trashmaster
2 goblin cratermaker
3 goblin chainwhirler
3 goblin ruinblaster
2 relic of progenitus
2 pithing needle
sideboard is still a work in progress. Still missing cavern #3-4 and auntie'S hovel #4, played with blood crypts instead.
The deck is very fun and effective, you have aggression and value and reach.
Goblin ringleader is nuts in this deck, especially with all the acceleration.
No fetchlands seems good with ringleader, you never shuffle the stuff you put on the bottom back in the deck.
Love the deck, gonna play some more and do some tweaking.
How many goblin piledriver do people often use?
Is mogg war marshal always a playset?
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I play 4x marshals, they are just good goblin fodder.
Here's my updated list:
4 skirk prospector
4 mogg war marshal
4 frogtosser banneret
4 munitions expert
4 goblin matron
4 goblin warchief
2 goblin chieftain
2 pashalik mons
2 sling-gang lieutenant
artifacts: 4
4 aether vial
tribal instants: 2
2 tarfire
lands: 20
4 cavern of souls
4 unclaimed territory
4 auntie's hovel
2 swamp
6 mountain
1 goblin trashmaster
2 goblin cratermaker
2 goblin chainwhirler
2 goblin ruinblaster
2 earwig squad
2 warren weirding
2 tarfire
2 relic of progenitus
I streamlined the deck a bit, removing the one ofs, making the deck very consistent.
I'm playing tarfire because we lack other turn one action, i dislike legion loyalist and knucklebone witch. The extra removal has been very useful.
My experience playing with the deck convinced me that we should run 8x cost reducing goblins, those effects are totally busted with matron and ringleader.
I also think that for the most part running the painless mana base helps a lot. The non shuffling thing i mentionned in my last post doesn't actually make sense since matron shuffles our deck, but, unless you plan on playing black non-goblin cards in the sideboard, i don't see a reason to hurt ourselves when we can have near-perfect painless mana. For this reason i plan on removing warren weirding from the sideboard for maybe engineered explosives vs bogles.
thanks for the reply, and you have a point there. Removed the piledriver from my SCG cart, and added a tarfire in it's place.
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The protection from blue is very relevant, making you able to race decks like Dredge (Amalgam and Narcomoeba can't block), Urza Thopter (the thopters are blue), UR Phoenix (Thing in the Ice), Storm (both creatures can't block), and makes your UW Control matchup even better. It's pretty strong against any combo deck, which is one of Goblins' weaknesses. Also doesn't die to Plague Engineer, which is an important upside as well.
They have to be blocked most of the time, which makes them act like a removal spell which is also a creature. It's completely nuts with Warchief.
Edit: I would still play a Tarfire as well, pretty good Matron target if you need it and decent extra removal.
All of those are best case scenario. I don't think cards should be evaluated this way.
Protection is a busted keyword, but blue is probably the worst protection a creature could have in this format. There is not a single piece of removal i can think of that is blue, and piledriver can be countered making the immunity to interaction aspect of protection useless. There are very few commonly played creatures that it can block, making this other aspect of protection bad.
While piledriver may be good vs some creatures in a given deck, it is never good against the whole deck. Dredge/hoogak have other creatures they can use to block. Phoenix has red creatures they can use to block it or fly over it all day. Urza/thopter have the construct token and the thopter will whipe all other attacking goblins. Plague engineer kills other goblins that we would need to pump it to make it a good attacker, and the few 2/2 we have would die in combat to the engineer itself if we attack with them.
The removal by attacking thing isn't that great value, because even when you have potential good attacks with piledriver you need to commit other creatures to combat, and those other attacks might be bad making it very awkward. I've played with piledriver in other decks a long time ago and thats the worst about them, for them to be good you would need to send all your stuff and make bad attacks, and if you don't do that they just sit there doing nothing.
The fact that it is good in combo matchups (not based on creatures) might be an argument to play it, but it seems the card has all properties of a sideboard card at best, not a maindeck one. There is not a single card in my main deck list i would cut for it. I'm not really sure what purpose it would serve in the deck.
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another question. I've been seeing something between 2 to 4 chieftain in various builds. Plus a single trashmaster or even mad auntie in others. Typically since these lords are the ones to be sniped by opponent's removal.. how many +1/+1 lords do we put into the deck?
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You need them to have a reasonable shot versus noninteractive combo decks; without them, Goblins goldfishes too slow. Pro blue is also very relevant; you can attack through Snapcasters, through thing in the ice, block awoken horror forever, and dredge has no creature that can block it (forget Hogaak, it's gone next week). And together with a tutorable Legion Loyalist, it can crush through any boardstall for lethal.
I was 100% on the Frogtosser Banneret train at the start but I'm now convinced the card is too weak. The acceleration is great, but individually it is rarely worth a card, needing multiple Ringleaders to be worth the investment.
My list for reference;
4 Aether Vial
4 Skirk Prospector
1 Tarfire
1 Legion Loyalist
4 Mogg War Marshial
4 Munitions Expert
3 Goblin Piledriver
1 Goblin Cratermaker
4 Goblin Matron
4 Goblin Warchief
1 Pashalik Mons
2 Sling-Gang Lieutenant
1 Krenko, Mob Boss
Lands
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Field of Ruin
4 Auntie's Hovel
4 Mountain
2 Cavern of Souls
2 Fiery islet
2 Blood Crypt
1 Swamp
4 Leyline of the Void
3 Thoughtseize
2 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Goblin Trashmaster
2 Earwig Squad
1 Goblin Cratermaker
1 Pashalik Mons