Devastating Summons...Don't forget that you can sacrifice 0 lands and pump your FSD by +2/+0!
I had not thought of that. Thanks for pointing that out! I currently have two in my main deck for, but I have rarely drawn either of them so I haven't been able to determine their usefulness.
Re: Mono-Red Anti-Lifegain
For me it was between Skullcrack and Everlasting Torment. I settled on the former because it cosst one less mana and gives 3 instant damage to the opponent. Plus, it catches pro-red players off-guard the first time and they have to play around it whether you have it in hand or not once they know you have it.
[quote]So again, I'll offer up the question to everyone here. What is our worst matchup(s) and how do you board, both on the play and on the draw?
I don't think the other guy is right about control and combo being worst MUs. Control is pretty free unless you flood or play a bunch of guys without haste into a sweeper. Combo is tougher, but SB options(eidolon) are really good and make it more even.
I think the actual worst MU are the CoCo + finks decks for obvious reasons. It's hard to be faster than CoCo because if you bolt bird they finks turn three, and if you don't they CoCo turn three. Good news is those decks are down right now. I used to play rain of gore, but have since switched to hoping to dodge the MU or nut draw them. This is a MU I bring in fireslingers instead of a haste guy who will just run into a 2/2. I keep one cage in my SB, and bring that in for CoCo. Sometimes I play one Gruul charm, and will bring that in for the 'Magmatic Chasm' mode.
The other MU that I consistently find hard is other tribal decks that focus on creatures and lords to make them bigger; think merfolk, elves, and though I haven't played it the humans deck. Usually by turn 3 or 4 when we want to win attacking their guys are all bigger and just eat our board. For this MU I just hope to have a fast hand or a hand with mostly burn spells, and rely less on guys attacking. This is another fireslinger MU. I also bring in my 'Magmatic Chasm' effect, but keep it at that. Don't worry about killing vial, vial hands are slower for them and usually wins. I wouldn't bring in X/1 hate besides against elves where their first guy will be an X/1 dork.
Runes wouldn't fit into my build with fetches and shocks. Maybe one, but I doubt that one would do any good in a 19 land deck with fetches. I can see, however, 4 in a 20 land deck making an impact often enough to run them. I say ignore what anyone is saying about convention since you won't die to them in most MU in a game in which you wouldn't die anyways. If they didn't work the standard deck wouldn't play them.
@hellakevin - thanks for the response. I have to agree, control has felt virtually unloseable, im like 8-0 in games vs UW. I imagine Jeskai to be harder, but I haven't come across it yet. Combo has seemingly been about the same, I feel way faster then them.
It is also my experience so far that the GWx decks, Coco, or just GW value are the hardest. Sounds like you've come to a similar conclusion as I have; we aren't effective at being the beatdown there. I've been trying to figure out a way to give up the role entirely, but I think it's important to keep up the facade. I find I'll punch through around 10 damage, then the board stalls and they slowly gain life and don't bother to attack and I feel dead from about turn 4 on, but in reality the game goes on until like turn 10, and I usually end up on about 4 or 5 lands with a real wide board. Often Magmatic chasm isn't good enough in these scenarios because they've gained too much life, or thier birds or whatever other random fliers aren't affected. This is why I was looking into Savage Alliance. They don't expect us to run sweepers, so they don't pace threats. There isn't a red wrath of God, but I think of there was it would be good enough for this matchup because we can empty our hand so quickly and probably kill in 2-3 turns after sweeping. I don't hate MrCojonudo's suggestion of banners raised here, but I think it's similar to electrickery, except electrickery type effects are going to be more effective at one sided sweeping without needing to be combined with first strike from something like legion loyalist.
@hellakevin - thanks for the response. I have to agree, control has felt virtually unloseable, im like 8-0 in games vs UW. I imagine Jeskai to be harder, but I haven't come across it yet. Combo has seemingly been about the same, I feel way faster then them.
It is also my experience so far that the GWx decks, Coco, or just GW value are the hardest. Sounds like you've come to a similar conclusion as I have; we aren't effective at being the beatdown there. I've been trying to figure out a way to give up the role entirely, but I think it's important to keep up the facade. I find I'll punch through around 10 damage, then the board stalls and they slowly gain life and don't bother to attack and I feel dead from about turn 4 on, but in reality the game goes on until like turn 10, and I usually end up on about 4 or 5 lands with a real wide board. Often Magmatic chasm isn't good enough in these scenarios because they've gained too much life, or thier birds or whatever other random fliers aren't affected. This is why I was looking into Savage Alliance. They don't expect us to run sweepers, so they don't pace threats. There isn't a red wrath of God, but I think of there was it would be good enough for this matchup because we can empty our hand so quickly and probably kill in 2-3 turns after sweeping. I don't hate MrCojonudo's suggestion of banners raised here, but I think it's similar to electrickery, except electrickery type effects are going to be more effective at one sided sweeping without needing to be combined with first strike from something like legion loyalist.
I think it's important to sill be the beatdown deck. The trick is just figuring out how to get the last points through before they gain too much or infinite life. I don't think it's a MU worth sideboarding for. IMO it's better to piece together a plan with what we're running than to dedicate SB slots to it. In a mono red deck I think skullcrack is a card you should have. It plays well into finishing them with burn and stopping at least a little life. Also I forgot to mention I have harsh mentor in my SB and will bring that in for the sake of stopping them from any infinite combo, but it's not good against most of what they're doing unless they're heavy on things like tireless tracker or scooze. That's something you could try that's good in other places. I think you mentioned you're on 3/3 split of fanatics and firebrand, with that many sac effects(Mogg War Marshal as well) you could swing some lavamancers in your SB as a way to get around a gummed up board too.
Goblins absolutely is the beatdown deck, always. Except after turn 4-5 in the GW match. We just can't so anything from that point. Their board is almost as wide as ours, but their creatures are much bigger. It's not useful to just shrug it off and say 'you played bad to get to that point'. And waiting around turn after turn for goblin grenades to show up isn't useful either due to the life gain creatures.
Savage Alliance is just one way to approach the situation, there has to be others. You never use the trample mode on alliance, you use 1 damage to all and 2 damage to one (which is actually 3 damage because it also gets hit by the 1 damage to all). Combine that with instant speed and first strike and you can take out thier biggest threat, and anything with 2 or less toughness that has already blocked. I don't have enough games under my belt to say if I'm sold on this plan yet, but it certainly sounds good in theory, and had worked a few times. It also has cross match application, like against dredge, or elves, or any deck that gums up the board.
My other thought was maybe something like Sword of Feast and Famine. All of thier creatures are green, and the untap clause would allow us the mana to both attack and block effectively by moving the sword around post combat. This one I haven't tested at all, but it sounds like a good plan for game 2. Might not be so good for g3 because they would likely bring in Reclamation Sage or Qasali Pridemage. I'll probably test this one, but I don't have high hopes.
@Mr.Cojonudo - I don't think it is wise to rely on being smarter than your opponent. And as I said before, it is not useful to say "Don't allow the opponent to fill their board, it means you played bad until that point". It's not only not useful because it doesn't suggest anything specific, other than "Kill the lifegain creatures", it's also insulting. When your specific plan is "hope they don't see the on-board Mogg Fanatic blow-out", well, I don't know even really know how to address that other than reiterating that hoping your opponent has the IQ of a rock is signing up to lose a lot of matches before even sitting down to play a game, with any deck.
Btw, I think your soul Sisters match would probably be much better with X/1 damage effects, almost all of their creatures would die to an Electrickery.
Do not allow for the opponent to fill his/her board. Keep beating and making them block your gobbos. If one of their high value creatures dies killing a lowly goblin, that is good. It's like taking out a rook with a pawn. Keep a bolt or two for the lifegain guys and you've got it. I have won against several GW decks by confusing the opponent until he/she makes mistakes. Attacking with a guide, loyalist and fanatic, having him block my valuable loyalist and then, after first strike, exploding fanatic, killing the other guy and saving the loyalist. That is why I told you that fanatic is WAAAAAAAAAAY better than firebrand, due to those little advantages it creates in the field thanks to attacking and then exploding.
The answer for improving the Goblin deck is not just adding more cards. Trying to turn a Tier 3 deck into a Tier 1 just by putting cards to see which one is cool is not the answer, like with Savage Alliance or that sword, which will only be playable by t3, and usable by t4. And if the gobbo dies you are screwed. The answer is, from my point of view, playing better. From my point of view, the difference between a good Goblin player and an expert Goblin player is OUTSMARTING the opponent.
The only deck I see nearly unbeatable is Soul Sisters, due to high creature count, guys with protection and plenty of lifegain. All other decks can be beaten. The only way to defeat Soul Sisters is by playing a permanent anti-lifegain card and by praying they don't draw enchantment removal.
PD: I am preparing a list of all the combat tricks, bluffs and techniques I use when I play with my Atarka Sexy Goblins deck. I'm still learning and I am far from an expert, but these tricks have proven useful to me.
None of what you're saying is outsmarting anyone. You are basically saying, "don't make unprofitable attacks" which isn't a trick; it's just on board information. You're tricks you give in a later post are, again, "just don't attack into a block." Both players have access to creature's P/T information, and nobody with a cursory understanding of the game is benefiting from your advice. Jayhooks is trying to have a conversation about sideboarding, and you're stifling conversation by demanding that he take your advice to just be better. The majority of games of magic played have been post sideboard, and adding cards is the answer for improving any MU. That is an undeniable fact.
I've been through gatherer countless times, scouring the modern card pool, for any card I think can address a need, and I passed fireslinger over time and time again. After having tried it, though, it is by far my most sideboarded card. If I had conceded to the fact that I could only improve bad MUs by being better I'd have never found a card that has vastly improved my deck.
Yesterday i went to a irl 64 players modern tournament, and made my way through the top 8 with this list:
4 Foundry street denizen
4 Goblin Guide
4 Legion Loyalist
3 Fanatical firebrand
3 Mogg fanatic
4 Goblin Bushwhacker
4 Mogg War Marshal
3 Goblin Piledriver
4 Reckless Bishwhacker
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Goblin Grenade
18 Mountain
1 contested war zone
Sideboard:
3 Tormods Crypt
3 Dragons Claw
4 Smash to smithreens
1 Forked Bolt
2 Kari zev expertise
2 Goblin Chieftain
I really liked having 6 mogg fanatic effects, they help me win many games, and the haste of Fanatical firebrand was absolutely relevant, trigging Legion Loyalist on turn 2, and helping Pilledriver win a couple of games in turn 3!
I don't play Chieftains maindeck because of the numerous quality removal's in this format, beside the matches against non removal decks, the card its constantly a massive waste of tempo, wasting a turn, 3 mana on a guy that can be easily removed and make your creatures umpumped and easy to block, making yourself vulnerable to became boardless, its not good at all.
I'm thinking in try some Burning tree emissary on mainboard, someone have tried to do and can tell me how it feels?
I run four Burning-Tree Emissary in my deck. I think it lowers the deck's consistency a bit, but it can lead to some amazingly explosive games chaining two Emissaries followed by a Reckless Bushwhacker on turn 2. I'm a budget player, so I play Tattermunge Maniac in place of Goblin Guide, giving me another card that can be cast with the green mana. Since I don't have all the premier cards, I'm willing to sacrifice a little consistency to give myself a better chance at taking down a Tier 1 deck.
Ok. As long a were tossing out non goblin creatures to try... I've been thinking that a top end of two x Hazoret The Fervent would be a sneaky thing to try.
What say you goblin wizaaaahhhds? Seriously though, what are your thoughts on this?
Hazoret is definitely strong, just not sure the land count of most lists could support it. It's kind of a midrange-y card imo, would probably play better in deck with efficient answers and threats where all the cards are independently strong, rather than a synergy based strategy.
Your list is much "larger" than most of the lists on here. You effectively have 10 two drops, 9 three drops, and 2 four drops. With only 19 lands I think you'll frequently run into problems casting all of your spells.
Also, there seems to be two ways to build goblins. In your deck, you hope that your powerful goblins survive and take over the game. The problem with that strategy is that 1. Other decks are inherently more powerful at higher cmc (Ravager > Mogg war Marshall, K Command > Chieftain, CoCo > Krenko), and 2. There are so many efficient answers to creatures in this format (path, push, bolt) that your opponents actually gain tempo by killing your threats. If your opponent out values and out tempos you, you'll have a very hard time.
To get around this, many people choose to build a low to the ground, or "no lord" style of goblins. You accept the fact that your opponents will have removal, so you don't run many threats above 1cmc. That way, when they bolt your Goblin Guide, you are still tempo neutral, and you likely already did some damage. This deck is still able to swarm around targeted removal, but is weaker to sweepers and large blockers, and it relies on burn to finish off the opponent. You'll find some example lists earlier in this thread. Good luck!
If I owned a Harsh Mentor I would have put that in the SB over 1 Smash to Smithereens, and same goes for 1 Ramunap Ruins over 1 Mountain in the main deck.
Match 1, R/G Tron:
Game 1- Tron doesn't do much in the opening turns, and I go FSD, Mogg War Marshal, dude + Bushwhacker to put him at 4 on turn 3. Burn and goblins wins it.
SB: -1 Legion Loyalist, -2 Reckless Bushwhacker, +2 Molten Rain, +1 Kari Zev's Expertise
Game 2- I keep a terrible(!) hand of 4 Mountain, 1 Grenade, 1 Bolt, 1 War Marshal. I'm hate mulliganing in any deck and am particularly averse to going to 6 in an 18 land deck with no cantrips, but clearly this was a bad keep. He goes T3 Karn, T4 Wurmcoil, T5 Ugin...
Game 3- I keep a hand of 3 Mountain, Mogg Fanatic(?), Devastating Summons, Kari Zev's Expertise, and Molten Rain. I play Mogg and he plays a non-Tron land. I topdeck a land and decide to play Devastating Summons for X=1, knowing that I'll get back to 3 lands for Molten Rain before he hits Tron. My 1/1s chip in, Molten Rain buys time. He eventually pyroclasms, but I play FSD + Bushwhacker to immediately rebuild my board and hit for 5. Eventually burn wins it.
1-0 (2-1 in games)
Match 2, Lantern:
Game 1- I'm on the draw and start with T1 Guide, T2 Piledriver. He has a turn 3 Witchbane Orb, and I see through Lantern that he will have Ensnaring Bridge next turn. On my turn 3 I play Guide #2 and a kicked bushwhacker for exact lethal!
SB: -4 Legion Loyalist, -3 Reckless Bushwhacker, -1 Devastating Summons, -1 Mogg War Marshal , +3 Goblin Fireslinger, +2 Grim Lavamancer, +3 Smash to Smithereens, +1 Goblin Piledriver
Game 2- He thoughtseizes me, and sees a few more goblins, bolt, and grenade. I chip in with small goblins. He lands a turn 3 Bridge with 2 cards in hand, which means I can only attack for 4, putting him at 12 life. On his turn 4 he plays a tapped land and a spell (turns out he had the Witchbane Orb in hand and just needed a 4th mana). Since he has 1 card in hand, I can attack with 3 1/1s, Sac a Mogg Fanatic, bolt + grenade for lethal.
2-0 (4-1 in games)
Match 3, G/B Tron:
Game 1- Opponent has turn 3 tron + Karn on a mull to 4. Luckily Karn stinks against goblins and I'm able to attack him to 3 life. He begins to stabilize with O-Stone and Worldbreaker. I have bolts in hand, but no board and no creatures. I topdeck a Cavern of Souls I play out some 1/1s to try and build a board. I draw a mountain 2 turns before we would have restarted the game with Karn.
SB: -3 Legion Loyalist, -2 Reckless Bushwhacker, +2 Molten Rain, +3 Goblin Fireslinger
Game 2- Opponent mulls to 4 again and I'm able to chip him down to 13 before he gets turn 4 Tron + Thragtusk. Next turn I chip him down to ~13 again. He plays a 2nd Thragtusk, and I attack through them to get him to 13 life again! He drops a Wurmcoil, and I topdeck my third land to go Bolt + Grenade + Grenade.
I made a mistake in G2 when I attacked into his Thragtusk. I attacked with all 4 of my 1/1s including a Goblin Fireslinger (which he blocked) for 3 guaranteed damage. I should have just attacked with 3 and pinged with the Fireslinger. This might have mattered if I was off of lethal by a few points.
3-0 (6-1 in games)
The next four rounds of the tournament were legacy where I went 2-2 with Grixis Delver, good enough for top 16!
Overall, no one expected goblins to be so fast. Even I surprised myself with the turn 3 win against lantern! I'm still figuring out sideboarding for this deck. None of my SB cards seemed very impactful, although Harsh Mentor would have done work against my matchups if I had it.
Mogg Fanatic vs. Fanatical Firebrand is still up in the air for me.
Cavern of Souls was obviously useless in these matchups, but it has performed well on Cockatrice. It did almost cost me M3G1, and would have prevented my triple burn play in M3G2. I'll probably keep it in for now.
Ramunap Ruins has actually won me a game on Cockatrice where my opponent was at 2 life and had counters in hand. And so far I have dealt 0 damage to myself with it. I plan on testing 1 when I buy it.
Speaking of cockatrice testing, I have gone undefeated in my 10+ matches. I know Cockatrice is not great testing, but it does show that this deck is consistent and can run over bad opponents and fringe decks.
I'm excited to keep swarming people, especially now that they'll be trying to play 4 drops like Jace and BBE!
Edit: I'm sure I got some of the details from the games wrong, so sorry about that!
Also, I wanted to add that although my Tron opponents had mulligan issues, they still got turn 3-4 tron + haymaker in every game. And both agreed that mulligans are not what lost them the game, but rather not finding the best haymaker (Wurmcoil or T4 O-stone/Ugin) or an early sweeper.
So I wanted to weigh in on the Ramunap Ruins discussion that occurred a few pages back. For context I have taken RG Goblins to Day 2 in both SCG Opens I've played them in.
As has been stated, Goblins traditionally has to scrap for the last points of damage - sort of like Burn, it means that a good portion of the time we are top-decking and hoping for that final bolt/grenade. Ramunap Ruins is perfect for this scenario. I know you all remember the games where your opponent is at 2 life and you keep top-decking lands. Having a number of Ruins in the deck is an easy way to increase your outs in those scenarios.
The downside, as of course has been mentioned, is the life loss. I agree with jayjayhooks here - there are games where it will lose you some life, but it is so rarely relevant in any of your matchups (aside from Burn). Unless the meta is insanely Burn-heavy, the amount of games that will be nudged to a win with Ram Ruins is higher than those you will lose against Burn, and this is straight-up win rate increase.
Bonus topic: Contested War Zone. This card has been wonderful for me. The key is not to think of it as a land but as a spell. I don't think any more than 1 is correct, but this card has carried me to several victories. On the back of Loyalist trample/first strike, or after a sweeper of MWM leaves me with a single goblin, this card pushes across damage and is a RESILIENT source of damage. Again, the downside is quite low with this card - if you are at the point where the opponent feels like they should attack, they are either making the wrong choice and dying next turn, or your hopes are quite small anyway.
I view as Runamap Ruins neither good nor bad. I see a lot of burn and affinity, so the last thing I want to do is lower my life total for them. In most match-ups, it probably won't make a difference one way or the other. Then, on rare occasions it will win a matchup. I think it's just a personal choice card.
Same goes for Contested War Zone. I agree, it's more of a spell than a land. If you view it that way, it costs 2 mana pump all my creatures for +1 damage. The problem is that it is practically a direct competitor with Goblin Bushwhacker and Reckless Bushwhacker, which give me a body to boot. Do I really need a 9th effect of that type or is 8-whackers good enough?
Both are okay cards, but neither is a shoe-in for the deck.
I agree with you, it's mostly about preference, and metagaming to an extent. For example, my sideboard (and mainboard, with Fanatics and Firebrands) packs a lot of anti-affinity already, so I'm not as worried about the aggressive mirror.
I think for me what sells the War Zone is its repeatability. Being able to edge a few more points of damage after an Anger or Verdict is often game-deciding. It also helps to cast Reckless Bushwhackers and MWM so it has some utility as an actual land.
And I believe someone was asking about what to side OUT. If I am on the draw, I tend to side out a land (the War Zone), regardless of matchup. If you want to side in something like Smash to Smithereens or Gut Shot, I lean toward shaving expensive spells (usually an Atarka's Command or two first, and/or a Mogg War Marshal, and then a Vexing Devil or Grim Lavamancer depending on matchup). If Bolt doesn't have good creature targets, one might come out. And if you want to side in Tin Street Hooligan or Piledriver, trade it for the two-drops like Mogg War Marshal.
You're right, this is the analysis that needs to be done, and in my experience playing the deck (both before and after the Ramunap Ruins printing) that it seems correct to run some number. I've gone between one and two, not a full playset (as you warned against). It's not the fact that it ALWAYS has a use that makes it good, it's the fact that it is very low-cost. Additionally, and I think most importantly, it is impossible to interact with outside of land destruction, which nobody will bring in against Goblins. Obviously life loss is an issue sometimes, but what I'm saying is that in my cost-benefit analysis, the benefit is higher. I definitely understand the more conservative side though, and can't fault you for not playing any.
Regarding Contested War Zone, yes, I addressed that issue indirectly in my comment. You need to be treating it as a spell rather than a land. My deck is running the relatively stock 19 lands, with the 20th being Contested War Zone. And if your opponent ends up attacking (after a goblin alpha-strike, for instance), they will get the land tapped - you can tap it before it changes hands. And if your opponent lasts another turn to where it can untap and you couldn't take it back, that game is not likely to be changed by that land. Again, I understand not wanting to run it - just giving my take on how it's performed.
I'm unsure how I feel about tapped lands, though if you've had good experiences I would consider testing them. And yeah - I like the Fireslinger plan for sure. I think Artillery might be a bit too expensive and vulnerable? As I said above that's a big draw for Ruins for me - it can't be answered by removal or counters. Though Artillery seems excellent in some matchups for sure.
You mentioned you play Atarka Goblins - I'm curious, how much of Goblin Bushwhacker / Reckless Bushwhacker / Atarka's Command do you play? Currently I'm at 4/2/3, respectively. I went 4/1/4 at the last few FNMs and found the Commands clogging up my hand a bit too much for my liking.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
I had not thought of that. Thanks for pointing that out! I currently have two in my main deck for, but I have rarely drawn either of them so I haven't been able to determine their usefulness.
Re: Mono-Red Anti-Lifegain
For me it was between Skullcrack and Everlasting Torment. I settled on the former because it cosst one less mana and gives 3 instant damage to the opponent. Plus, it catches pro-red players off-guard the first time and they have to play around it whether you have it in hand or not once they know you have it.
Budget Modern: GStompyG | R8-WhackR
I don't think the other guy is right about control and combo being worst MUs. Control is pretty free unless you flood or play a bunch of guys without haste into a sweeper. Combo is tougher, but SB options(eidolon) are really good and make it more even.
I think the actual worst MU are the CoCo + finks decks for obvious reasons. It's hard to be faster than CoCo because if you bolt bird they finks turn three, and if you don't they CoCo turn three. Good news is those decks are down right now. I used to play rain of gore, but have since switched to hoping to dodge the MU or nut draw them. This is a MU I bring in fireslingers instead of a haste guy who will just run into a 2/2. I keep one cage in my SB, and bring that in for CoCo. Sometimes I play one Gruul charm, and will bring that in for the 'Magmatic Chasm' mode.
The other MU that I consistently find hard is other tribal decks that focus on creatures and lords to make them bigger; think merfolk, elves, and though I haven't played it the humans deck. Usually by turn 3 or 4 when we want to win attacking their guys are all bigger and just eat our board. For this MU I just hope to have a fast hand or a hand with mostly burn spells, and rely less on guys attacking. This is another fireslinger MU. I also bring in my 'Magmatic Chasm' effect, but keep it at that. Don't worry about killing vial, vial hands are slower for them and usually wins. I wouldn't bring in X/1 hate besides against elves where their first guy will be an X/1 dork.
Runes wouldn't fit into my build with fetches and shocks. Maybe one, but I doubt that one would do any good in a 19 land deck with fetches. I can see, however, 4 in a 20 land deck making an impact often enough to run them. I say ignore what anyone is saying about convention since you won't die to them in most MU in a game in which you wouldn't die anyways. If they didn't work the standard deck wouldn't play them.
It is also my experience so far that the GWx decks, Coco, or just GW value are the hardest. Sounds like you've come to a similar conclusion as I have; we aren't effective at being the beatdown there. I've been trying to figure out a way to give up the role entirely, but I think it's important to keep up the facade. I find I'll punch through around 10 damage, then the board stalls and they slowly gain life and don't bother to attack and I feel dead from about turn 4 on, but in reality the game goes on until like turn 10, and I usually end up on about 4 or 5 lands with a real wide board. Often Magmatic chasm isn't good enough in these scenarios because they've gained too much life, or thier birds or whatever other random fliers aren't affected. This is why I was looking into Savage Alliance. They don't expect us to run sweepers, so they don't pace threats. There isn't a red wrath of God, but I think of there was it would be good enough for this matchup because we can empty our hand so quickly and probably kill in 2-3 turns after sweeping. I don't hate MrCojonudo's suggestion of banners raised here, but I think it's similar to electrickery, except electrickery type effects are going to be more effective at one sided sweeping without needing to be combined with first strike from something like legion loyalist.
I think it's important to sill be the beatdown deck. The trick is just figuring out how to get the last points through before they gain too much or infinite life. I don't think it's a MU worth sideboarding for. IMO it's better to piece together a plan with what we're running than to dedicate SB slots to it. In a mono red deck I think skullcrack is a card you should have. It plays well into finishing them with burn and stopping at least a little life. Also I forgot to mention I have harsh mentor in my SB and will bring that in for the sake of stopping them from any infinite combo, but it's not good against most of what they're doing unless they're heavy on things like tireless tracker or scooze. That's something you could try that's good in other places. I think you mentioned you're on 3/3 split of fanatics and firebrand, with that many sac effects(Mogg War Marshal as well) you could swing some lavamancers in your SB as a way to get around a gummed up board too.
Savage Alliance is just one way to approach the situation, there has to be others. You never use the trample mode on alliance, you use 1 damage to all and 2 damage to one (which is actually 3 damage because it also gets hit by the 1 damage to all). Combine that with instant speed and first strike and you can take out thier biggest threat, and anything with 2 or less toughness that has already blocked. I don't have enough games under my belt to say if I'm sold on this plan yet, but it certainly sounds good in theory, and had worked a few times. It also has cross match application, like against dredge, or elves, or any deck that gums up the board.
My other thought was maybe something like Sword of Feast and Famine. All of thier creatures are green, and the untap clause would allow us the mana to both attack and block effectively by moving the sword around post combat. This one I haven't tested at all, but it sounds like a good plan for game 2. Might not be so good for g3 because they would likely bring in Reclamation Sage or Qasali Pridemage. I'll probably test this one, but I don't have high hopes.
Btw, I think your soul Sisters match would probably be much better with X/1 damage effects, almost all of their creatures would die to an Electrickery.
None of what you're saying is outsmarting anyone. You are basically saying, "don't make unprofitable attacks" which isn't a trick; it's just on board information. You're tricks you give in a later post are, again, "just don't attack into a block." Both players have access to creature's P/T information, and nobody with a cursory understanding of the game is benefiting from your advice. Jayhooks is trying to have a conversation about sideboarding, and you're stifling conversation by demanding that he take your advice to just be better. The majority of games of magic played have been post sideboard, and adding cards is the answer for improving any MU. That is an undeniable fact.
I've been through gatherer countless times, scouring the modern card pool, for any card I think can address a need, and I passed fireslinger over time and time again. After having tried it, though, it is by far my most sideboarded card. If I had conceded to the fact that I could only improve bad MUs by being better I'd have never found a card that has vastly improved my deck.
4 Foundry street denizen
4 Goblin Guide
4 Legion Loyalist
3 Fanatical firebrand
3 Mogg fanatic
4 Goblin Bushwhacker
4 Mogg War Marshal
3 Goblin Piledriver
4 Reckless Bishwhacker
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Goblin Grenade
18 Mountain
1 contested war zone
Sideboard:
3 Tormods Crypt
3 Dragons Claw
4 Smash to smithreens
1 Forked Bolt
2 Kari zev expertise
2 Goblin Chieftain
I really liked having 6 mogg fanatic effects, they help me win many games, and the haste of Fanatical firebrand was absolutely relevant, trigging Legion Loyalist on turn 2, and helping Pilledriver win a couple of games in turn 3!
I don't play Chieftains maindeck because of the numerous quality removal's in this format, beside the matches against non removal decks, the card its constantly a massive waste of tempo, wasting a turn, 3 mana on a guy that can be easily removed and make your creatures umpumped and easy to block, making yourself vulnerable to became boardless, its not good at all.
I'm thinking in try some Burning tree emissary on mainboard, someone have tried to do and can tell me how it feels?
Budget Modern: GStompyG | R8-WhackR
Thank you!
What say you goblin wizaaaahhhds? Seriously though, what are your thoughts on this?
https://www.mtgsalvation.com/decks/1530-mr-zs-mono-red-gobbos
4 Goblin Bushwhacker
4 Legion Loyalist
3 Mogg War Marshal
4 Foundry Street Denizen
3 Goblin Piledriver
3 Goblin Chieftain
2 Goblin Rabblemaster
4 Reckless Bushwhacker
4 Goblin Guide
2 Krenko, Mob Boss
19 Mountain
Instant
4 Lightning Bolt
Sorcery
4 Goblin Grenade
1 Goblin Piledriver
1 Blood Moon
4 Dragon's Claw
2 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Tormod's Crypt
2 Smash to Smithereens
3 Kari Zev's Expertise
Modern: Goblins,Storm
Legacy: Burn
EDH: Simic Merfolk
Also, there seems to be two ways to build goblins. In your deck, you hope that your powerful goblins survive and take over the game. The problem with that strategy is that 1. Other decks are inherently more powerful at higher cmc (Ravager > Mogg war Marshall, K Command > Chieftain, CoCo > Krenko), and 2. There are so many efficient answers to creatures in this format (path, push, bolt) that your opponents actually gain tempo by killing your threats. If your opponent out values and out tempos you, you'll have a very hard time.
To get around this, many people choose to build a low to the ground, or "no lord" style of goblins. You accept the fact that your opponents will have removal, so you don't run many threats above 1cmc. That way, when they bolt your Goblin Guide, you are still tempo neutral, and you likely already did some damage. This deck is still able to swarm around targeted removal, but is weaker to sweepers and large blockers, and it relies on burn to finish off the opponent. You'll find some example lists earlier in this thread. Good luck!
4 Goblin Guide
4 Foundry Street Denizen
4 Legion Loyalist
3 Mogg Fanatic
4 Goblin Bushwhacker
4 Mogg War Marshal
2 Goblin Piledriver
4 Reckless Bushwhacker
4 Fanatical Firebrand
4 Lightning Bolt
// 18 Land
17 Mountain
1 Cavern of Souls
// 5 Sorcery
4 Goblin Grenade
1 Devastating Summons
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Genesis Chamber
1 Goblin Piledriver
3 Smash to Smithereens
2 Grim Lavamancer
2 Molten Rain
1 Kari Zev's Expertise
3 Goblin Fireslinger
If I owned a Harsh Mentor I would have put that in the SB over 1 Smash to Smithereens, and same goes for 1 Ramunap Ruins over 1 Mountain in the main deck.
Match 1, R/G Tron:
Game 1- Tron doesn't do much in the opening turns, and I go FSD, Mogg War Marshal, dude + Bushwhacker to put him at 4 on turn 3. Burn and goblins wins it.
SB: -1 Legion Loyalist, -2 Reckless Bushwhacker, +2 Molten Rain, +1 Kari Zev's Expertise
Game 2- I keep a terrible(!) hand of 4 Mountain, 1 Grenade, 1 Bolt, 1 War Marshal. I'm hate mulliganing in any deck and am particularly averse to going to 6 in an 18 land deck with no cantrips, but clearly this was a bad keep. He goes T3 Karn, T4 Wurmcoil, T5 Ugin...
Game 3- I keep a hand of 3 Mountain, Mogg Fanatic(?), Devastating Summons, Kari Zev's Expertise, and Molten Rain. I play Mogg and he plays a non-Tron land. I topdeck a land and decide to play Devastating Summons for X=1, knowing that I'll get back to 3 lands for Molten Rain before he hits Tron. My 1/1s chip in, Molten Rain buys time. He eventually pyroclasms, but I play FSD + Bushwhacker to immediately rebuild my board and hit for 5. Eventually burn wins it.
1-0 (2-1 in games)
Match 2, Lantern:
Game 1- I'm on the draw and start with T1 Guide, T2 Piledriver. He has a turn 3 Witchbane Orb, and I see through Lantern that he will have Ensnaring Bridge next turn. On my turn 3 I play Guide #2 and a kicked bushwhacker for exact lethal!
SB: -4 Legion Loyalist, -3 Reckless Bushwhacker, -1 Devastating Summons, -1 Mogg War Marshal , +3 Goblin Fireslinger, +2 Grim Lavamancer, +3 Smash to Smithereens, +1 Goblin Piledriver
Game 2- He thoughtseizes me, and sees a few more goblins, bolt, and grenade. I chip in with small goblins. He lands a turn 3 Bridge with 2 cards in hand, which means I can only attack for 4, putting him at 12 life. On his turn 4 he plays a tapped land and a spell (turns out he had the Witchbane Orb in hand and just needed a 4th mana). Since he has 1 card in hand, I can attack with 3 1/1s, Sac a Mogg Fanatic, bolt + grenade for lethal.
2-0 (4-1 in games)
Match 3, G/B Tron:
Game 1- Opponent has turn 3 tron + Karn on a mull to 4. Luckily Karn stinks against goblins and I'm able to attack him to 3 life. He begins to stabilize with O-Stone and Worldbreaker. I have bolts in hand, but no board and no creatures. I topdeck a Cavern of Souls
SB: -3 Legion Loyalist, -2 Reckless Bushwhacker, +2 Molten Rain, +3 Goblin Fireslinger
Game 2- Opponent mulls to 4 again and I'm able to chip him down to 13 before he gets turn 4 Tron + Thragtusk. Next turn I chip him down to ~13 again. He plays a 2nd Thragtusk, and I attack through them to get him to 13 life again! He drops a Wurmcoil, and I topdeck my third land to go Bolt + Grenade + Grenade.
I made a mistake in G2 when I attacked into his Thragtusk. I attacked with all 4 of my 1/1s including a Goblin Fireslinger (which he blocked) for 3 guaranteed damage. I should have just attacked with 3 and pinged with the Fireslinger. This might have mattered if I was off of lethal by a few points.
3-0 (6-1 in games)
The next four rounds of the tournament were legacy where I went 2-2 with Grixis Delver, good enough for top 16!
Overall, no one expected goblins to be so fast. Even I surprised myself with the turn 3 win against lantern! I'm still figuring out sideboarding for this deck. None of my SB cards seemed very impactful, although Harsh Mentor would have done work against my matchups if I had it.
Mogg Fanatic vs. Fanatical Firebrand is still up in the air for me.
Cavern of Souls was obviously useless in these matchups, but it has performed well on Cockatrice. It did almost cost me M3G1, and would have prevented my triple burn play in M3G2. I'll probably keep it in for now.
Ramunap Ruins has actually won me a game on Cockatrice where my opponent was at 2 life and had counters in hand. And so far I have dealt 0 damage to myself with it. I plan on testing 1 when I buy it.
Speaking of cockatrice testing, I have gone undefeated in my 10+ matches. I know Cockatrice is not great testing, but it does show that this deck is consistent and can run over bad opponents and fringe decks.
I'm excited to keep swarming people, especially now that they'll be trying to play 4 drops like Jace and BBE!
Edit: I'm sure I got some of the details from the games wrong, so sorry about that!
Also, I wanted to add that although my Tron opponents had mulligan issues, they still got turn 3-4 tron + haymaker in every game. And both agreed that mulligans are not what lost them the game, but rather not finding the best haymaker (Wurmcoil or T4 O-stone/Ugin) or an early sweeper.
As has been stated, Goblins traditionally has to scrap for the last points of damage - sort of like Burn, it means that a good portion of the time we are top-decking and hoping for that final bolt/grenade. Ramunap Ruins is perfect for this scenario. I know you all remember the games where your opponent is at 2 life and you keep top-decking lands. Having a number of Ruins in the deck is an easy way to increase your outs in those scenarios.
The downside, as of course has been mentioned, is the life loss. I agree with jayjayhooks here - there are games where it will lose you some life, but it is so rarely relevant in any of your matchups (aside from Burn). Unless the meta is insanely Burn-heavy, the amount of games that will be nudged to a win with Ram Ruins is higher than those you will lose against Burn, and this is straight-up win rate increase.
Bonus topic: Contested War Zone. This card has been wonderful for me. The key is not to think of it as a land but as a spell. I don't think any more than 1 is correct, but this card has carried me to several victories. On the back of Loyalist trample/first strike, or after a sweeper of MWM leaves me with a single goblin, this card pushes across damage and is a RESILIENT source of damage. Again, the downside is quite low with this card - if you are at the point where the opponent feels like they should attack, they are either making the wrong choice and dying next turn, or your hopes are quite small anyway.
Same goes for Contested War Zone. I agree, it's more of a spell than a land. If you view it that way, it costs 2 mana pump all my creatures for +1 damage. The problem is that it is practically a direct competitor with Goblin Bushwhacker and Reckless Bushwhacker, which give me a body to boot. Do I really need a 9th effect of that type or is 8-whackers good enough?
Both are okay cards, but neither is a shoe-in for the deck.
Budget Modern: GStompyG | R8-WhackR
I think for me what sells the War Zone is its repeatability. Being able to edge a few more points of damage after an Anger or Verdict is often game-deciding. It also helps to cast Reckless Bushwhackers and MWM so it has some utility as an actual land.
And I believe someone was asking about what to side OUT. If I am on the draw, I tend to side out a land (the War Zone), regardless of matchup. If you want to side in something like Smash to Smithereens or Gut Shot, I lean toward shaving expensive spells (usually an Atarka's Command or two first, and/or a Mogg War Marshal, and then a Vexing Devil or Grim Lavamancer depending on matchup). If Bolt doesn't have good creature targets, one might come out. And if you want to side in Tin Street Hooligan or Piledriver, trade it for the two-drops like Mogg War Marshal.
Regarding Contested War Zone, yes, I addressed that issue indirectly in my comment. You need to be treating it as a spell rather than a land. My deck is running the relatively stock 19 lands, with the 20th being Contested War Zone. And if your opponent ends up attacking (after a goblin alpha-strike, for instance), they will get the land tapped - you can tap it before it changes hands. And if your opponent lasts another turn to where it can untap and you couldn't take it back, that game is not likely to be changed by that land. Again, I understand not wanting to run it - just giving my take on how it's performed.
I'm unsure how I feel about tapped lands, though if you've had good experiences I would consider testing them. And yeah - I like the Fireslinger plan for sure. I think Artillery might be a bit too expensive and vulnerable? As I said above that's a big draw for Ruins for me - it can't be answered by removal or counters. Though Artillery seems excellent in some matchups for sure.
You mentioned you play Atarka Goblins - I'm curious, how much of Goblin Bushwhacker / Reckless Bushwhacker / Atarka's Command do you play? Currently I'm at 4/2/3, respectively. I went 4/1/4 at the last few FNMs and found the Commands clogging up my hand a bit too much for my liking.