Has anyone had a bad night with this deck lately? lol
Don't get me wrong, I'm glad, but it seems like everyone's just running through their local groups, based on the reports that are being given. Is it just a deck that people aren't preparing for like they would other strong, more prominent decks (Eldrazi, affinity, tron, etc)?
BTE does provide early damage, but not near as much versatility as fanatic. besides, by early damage, I mean chip shots. There's killing people, and overkilling people. We don't need to deal 40 damage, just 20, but we need to consistently deal 20.
I really have no idea what you're talking about. I just know that when the Bushwhacker hits the board on Turn 3, I'd prefer to have 3-4 creatures waiting and BTE helps with this. I also see it as a card that helps push through 20 damage before you have to go into topdecking mode.
I played against 8 Whacks at GP Detroit when I was at 5-2, I was on Affinity and got crushed. I asked him how other people were losing to him all day and he said that no one was really prepared for it and that it goes so wide.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Current Decks Standard : WB Orzhov Vampires BWGUB Sultai Constrictor BUG Brawl : GB Hapatra, Vizier of Poisons BG Modern : GB Golgari Elves BGGR Atarka Goblins RG Pauper : W Heroic WGB Delve BG
Does anyone know why some of the goblin pieces are surging like crazy on TCGPlayer?
Goblin Bushwhacker is now ~$1.50 (is common, I bought for $0.15 perhaps),Goblin Grenade (M12) - $2.00 (bought for .$0.50 if I am not mistaken). Seems like even the Piledriver and the Chieftain have doubled in price since I last checked.
Also, one random observation from a while ago: except for Guide and Loyalist, all other important goblins are warriors. I'm almost tempted to try whether there is a viable Gruul version out there utilizing Bramblewood Paragon.
I've been playing Goblins on my local meta for 3 years now. At this point they know very well how to play against me. Those aren't easy wins, trust me. I'm facing lots of sweepers and 2 for 1's in every game so they are prepared for it.
The 8-whack version is getting those scores thanks to it's consistency.
This is the thing that I love about the mono-red 8whack deck. I'm always shocked by the consistency and speed of this deck. I've never goldfished this deck later than turn 4, and hit turn 3 fairly often. I honestly think this deck is where Burn was a few years ago. The janky budget deck that nobody thought anything of, but still beat you.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Currently Playing: R8whackR WUBGAtraxa Stax-Superfriends *Under Construction*WUBG
Glad to see everyone's testing is going well. I have created a "clan" on MTGO for all goblin players to come and discuss anything and everything. If anyone would like to join and help better the goblin community on MTGO please feel free to PM me. The clan won't be up till tomorrow or Thursday depending on when Wizards actually creates it.
Also has anyone noticed any new decks sprung up in the last few days with SotM and Thopter Foundry? I have yet to see a single deck online using it so i'm curious.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Modern: B 8Rack RX Goblins BG Elves (Attempting) UBW Mill G Stompy UB Tezzerator
Legacy: W Stax
Personally I like Frenzied Goblin best, mostly because I don't need a spell to play him. Also, there's a sweet promo foil I've got 3 of, so I don't plan to change him out from my sideboard anytime soon.
PS, I was wrong, Devastating Summons is a great card maindeck. Loads better than Frenzied Goblin.
I get what you're saying about the turn 2 Bushwhacker. I would do the same if I were expecting a boardwipe of some sort, or any consistent removal.
But..... after a turn 1 FSD, turn 2 Bushwhacker for 5 damage.... why not a turn 3 Legion Loyalist into BTE into Surgewhacker. That now deals 14 first strike trample. Even turn 1 FSD, turn 2 BTE into Surgewhacker deals 9 on turn 2, way better than the 5 you are dealing with Bushwhacker (plus it uses up a conditional Surgewhacker and drops a 2/1 body)
BTE can be an explosive card on turn 2 if your hand supports it, but it can also be held onto and exploited later. If you have a rough start it lets you regain a board presence quickly. It is rarely a negative, and if you find you can't use it to cast something, just hold onto it until it makes sense. In my experience playing this deck, not every game is going to end by turn 4 and for those times where you get restricted somehow by a control element, it's better to let cards pile up in your hand for a few turns as long as you aren't being overrun on the battlefield. By that time you might have 4-5 lands out, and once they make a play and tap mana, you can dump 4-5 creatures, pump them and swing. This works regardless in goblins, but BTE can make it even better.
At the end of the day, it's a personal choice. My belief is that although there are potential minor drawbacks, the positives of running BTE far outweigh them. I put her in the deck and am happy to have her.
For what it's worth, I don't side out Mogg Fanatic for them. Fanatic is too good.
I used to run Raging Goblin before I had the Goblin Guides. They were fine, nothing exciting and easy picks to board out in games two and three, but generally I was quite happy with them. They allow for agressive T1 and T2 plays, but get less relevant in later turns. Try the ones from the Portals set - great art x
Yes, the portal art is very cool, same for Exodus.
But about Raging Goblin, would you Run 4 copies of him or should I split it with Goblin Chieftain? I replaced 4 Goblin Guides with 2 Chieftain and 2 Raging Goblin.
Went 1-3 tonight. Combination of bad draws on my end, my "off" playing, good draws on my opponents end, and just unlucky mathcups.
Game 1, Infect. Nuff said. Our deck doesn't have enough spot removal main or sideboard to combat this matchup, and we can't out clock them, especially with a rancor/evasion.
Game 2, U/W/R control. turn 3 win match 1, turn 4 win match 2.
Game 3, Scapeshift. Match 1 he knew I was playing Goblins so he kept 5 lands and an anger. That's just stupid. Who maindecks anger (ok, some people, I'm just salty) but then goes around scouting other matchups so they know what hands to keep. Match 2 he just had Timely Reinforcements, Baloth, Anger.
Game 4, Kiln Fiend. He stomped me 2-0. We need more spot removal in the board.
Overall, I'm salty about the night, didn't see 1 single grenade so that doesn't help.
Well, inconsistency is still the biggest issue of goblin decks. However, I don't find infect match-up to be bad at all. We have a fast clock, pack 4 bolts and usually at least 3 mogg fanatics. I'm probably 5-1 against infect with goblins (but I play 3-4 fanatics main and 2-3 forked bolts in sb), including some games at PPTQ and RPTQ. Sure, we can't beat godlike draws from infect, but which deck can?
Speaking of Mogg Fanatic, he reminds me of Cursecatcher. Those cards pull weight that we don't even see, and I'm never leaving home without one or the other (when playing with those decks ofc).
1. RW Noring Soul Sisters deck, was really annoying, second game leyline of punishment never showed. 0-2
2. Faced Elves, I removed a lot of their elves, but was not enough to beat them on the first game. Second game I mulligan once and kept a hand with 1 land, hoping to get the second one, but never showed until too late, still I remove a lot of their elves. 0-2
3. I faced a deck with leyline of santity main, fog like spells and isotronic scetre. was soo annoying, second game I did not expect the Firewalker. I was able to destroy the isotronic, but firewalkers defeated me. 0-2.
4. I faced boogles, and was hard to beat them, he got the two games the coronet. 0-2.
Match 1: Grixis control? Lots of kill cards, draw cards, spot removal and stuff that leads up to Kalitas. Game 1 I was just too fast and he never saw Kalitas. Out: -4 Reckless Bushwhacker, -1 Shared Animosity; +2 Magmatic Chasm +3 Skullcrack.
Game 2 I got him down to 10 but he landed Kalitas and couldn't get around it. He also killed a few of my gobos and got some zombie tokens so he started growing his board.
Game 3 was a lot like game 1. He was trying to keep up while I kept the pressure up. He landed Kalitas and was tapped out. Had a few creatures on the board, kicked a Goblin Bushwhacker and then cast Magmatic Chasm and that was it. 2-1.
Match 2: U/R Delver. Delver of Secrets, and lots of prowess creatures. I don't remember much about this match-up except that he was looking at my hand a lot and one game my opponent got land screwed. I had a Goblin Guide on the field when he was land screwed and opted not to attack with him. It paid off because he never got the land. Don't remember my sideboarding. 2-1.
Match 3: GOBLIN MIRROR MATCH! Yeaaaaah! First game was lots of trading back and forth, but I pulled more War Marshals and bolted his key cards. He was also stuck on two lands. Out: -1 Shared Animosity, -4 Reckless Bushwhacker; +3 Forked Bolt, +2 Magmatic Chasm. Mulled down to 5. Had three lands, but I didn't want to go to four. He was stuck on one land. Again, I had Goblin Guide on the field but kept him back just in case my opponent saw that land. Pretty much swept this match. 2-0.
Match 4: Jeskai control? I think this was his own brew. Used Snapcaster Mage, [/card]Young Pyromancer[/card], Swiftspear, Stormchaser Mage, and lots of removal and/or counters. He was also using Declaration in Stone. He used that in game two against two Mogg Fanatics. He was down to 4 life and I was really tempted to blow them up, but ultimately decided to let it resolve and I'm glad I did. I had 4 mana so I used the clues at the end of his turn and drew into straight gas. I was able to swarm the board and he had nothing he could do. But, he got there game 1 and 3. I think game 1 I flooded hard... something like 5 lands in a row. Oh well, variance is a bizznich.
Went 1-3 tonight. Combination of bad draws on my end, my "off" playing, good draws on my opponents end, and just unlucky mathcups.
Game 1, Infect. Nuff said. Our deck doesn't have enough spot removal main or sideboard to combat this matchup, and we can't out clock them, especially with a rancor/evasion.
Like treachtv said, I personally find the infect matchup supremely favored. The 4 Mogg Fanatics and 4 Lightning Bolts are essential to winning the first game, then sideboard I add Destructive Revelry's to kill the Inkmoths as well as my current package of 1 Electrickery, 1 Forked Bolt, and 2 Searing Blaze. Sure, I've lost games, but as I mentioned about 3-4 pages ago, I don't actually think I've lost to Infect with Goblins, going 7-0 or something. Part of it is that my opponent's haven't always been the best pilots, as Infect seems to attract the more budget players, but spell sequencing is absolutely CRUCIAL in the Infect matchup. Knowing when to pop off your Fanatics, when to Bolt to give yourself the most protection. I take out my aggressive cards like Piledrivers and Reckless Bushwhackers and strap in to play the control game. Yes, this does require more spot removal in the board, but my meta at the moment has a lot of Elves floating around, so I can easily trade in an extra spot removal card.
The whole "turning into a control deck" plan is something I've grown to appreciate over time. I find success doing this against decks like Infect, Affinity, and even UR Storm.
edit: I should mention that if you're not running green for sideboard, Smash to Smithereens is a fine option against Infect. Inkmoth Nexus is that hard to kill, and damage based removal has quite a few more windows where it's bad against the pump spells. Inkmoth and Blighted Agent are the cards that should eat your removal first, although I will kill a t1 Hierarch if my hand has enough backup interaction.
Went 1-3 tonight. Combination of bad draws on my end, my "off" playing, good draws on my opponents end, and just unlucky mathcups.
Game 1, Infect. Nuff said. Our deck doesn't have enough spot removal main or sideboard to combat this matchup, and we can't out clock them, especially with a rancor/evasion.
Like treachtv said, I personally find the infect matchup supremely favored. The 4 Mogg Fanatics and 4 Lightning Bolts are essential to winning the first game, then sideboard I add Destructive Revelry's to kill the Inkmoths as well as my current package of 1 Electrickery, 1 Forked Bolt, and 2 Searing Blaze. Sure, I've lost games, but as I mentioned about 3-4 pages ago, I don't actually think I've lost to Infect with Goblins, going 7-0 or something. Part of it is that my opponent's haven't always been the best pilots, as Infect seems to attract the more budget players, but spell sequencing is absolutely CRUCIAL in the Infect matchup. Knowing when to pop off your Fanatics, when to Bolt to give yourself the most protection. I take out my aggressive cards like Piledrivers and Reckless Bushwhackers and strap in to play the control game. Yes, this does require more spot removal in the board, but my meta at the moment has a lot of Elves floating around, so I can easily trade in an extra spot removal card.
The whole "turning into a control deck" plan is something I've grown to appreciate over time. I find success doing this against decks like Infect, Affinity, and even UR Storm.
I also got unlucky draws, and game 2 he was using inkmoth and I was using forked bolt, so i didn't do well. Why play control against ur storm?
Don't get me wrong, I'm glad, but it seems like everyone's just running through their local groups, based on the reports that are being given. Is it just a deck that people aren't preparing for like they would other strong, more prominent decks (Eldrazi, affinity, tron, etc)?
WU Bruna UW | R Kiki-Jiki R | RB New Chainer BR
Legacy - Burn | Pauper - Reanimator | Aristocrats | Burn
@votechainer2016
I really have no idea what you're talking about. I just know that when the Bushwhacker hits the board on Turn 3, I'd prefer to have 3-4 creatures waiting and BTE helps with this. I also see it as a card that helps push through 20 damage before you have to go into topdecking mode.
That is all.
Current Decks
Standard : WB Orzhov Vampires BW GUB Sultai Constrictor BUG
Brawl : GB Hapatra, Vizier of Poisons BG
Modern : GB Golgari Elves BG GR Atarka Goblins RG
Pauper : W Heroic W GB Delve BG
Goblin Bushwhacker is now ~$1.50 (is common, I bought for $0.15 perhaps),Goblin Grenade (M12) - $2.00 (bought for .$0.50 if I am not mistaken). Seems like even the Piledriver and the Chieftain have doubled in price since I last checked.
Reckless Bushwhacker effect?
Well, I said almost tempted
This is the thing that I love about the mono-red 8whack deck. I'm always shocked by the consistency and speed of this deck. I've never goldfished this deck later than turn 4, and hit turn 3 fairly often. I honestly think this deck is where Burn was a few years ago. The janky budget deck that nobody thought anything of, but still beat you.
R8whackR
WUBGAtraxa Stax-Superfriends *Under Construction*WUBG
Also has anyone noticed any new decks sprung up in the last few days with SotM and Thopter Foundry? I have yet to see a single deck online using it so i'm curious.
Modern:
B 8Rack
RX Goblins
BG Elves (Attempting)
UBW Mill
G Stompy
UB Tezzerator
Legacy:
W Stax
PS, I was wrong, Devastating Summons is a great card maindeck. Loads better than Frenzied Goblin.
I get what you're saying about the turn 2 Bushwhacker. I would do the same if I were expecting a boardwipe of some sort, or any consistent removal.
But..... after a turn 1 FSD, turn 2 Bushwhacker for 5 damage.... why not a turn 3 Legion Loyalist into BTE into Surgewhacker. That now deals 14 first strike trample. Even turn 1 FSD, turn 2 BTE into Surgewhacker deals 9 on turn 2, way better than the 5 you are dealing with Bushwhacker (plus it uses up a conditional Surgewhacker and drops a 2/1 body)
BTE can be an explosive card on turn 2 if your hand supports it, but it can also be held onto and exploited later. If you have a rough start it lets you regain a board presence quickly. It is rarely a negative, and if you find you can't use it to cast something, just hold onto it until it makes sense. In my experience playing this deck, not every game is going to end by turn 4 and for those times where you get restricted somehow by a control element, it's better to let cards pile up in your hand for a few turns as long as you aren't being overrun on the battlefield. By that time you might have 4-5 lands out, and once they make a play and tap mana, you can dump 4-5 creatures, pump them and swing. This works regardless in goblins, but BTE can make it even better.
At the end of the day, it's a personal choice. My belief is that although there are potential minor drawbacks, the positives of running BTE far outweigh them. I put her in the deck and am happy to have her.
For what it's worth, I don't side out Mogg Fanatic for them. Fanatic is too good.
Yes, the portal art is very cool, same for Exodus.
But about Raging Goblin, would you Run 4 copies of him or should I split it with Goblin Chieftain? I replaced 4 Goblin Guides with 2 Chieftain and 2 Raging Goblin.
I love the Portal version and art, I grew up with that Goblin, thought it was sick haha
Legacy: Pox, R/B Goblins
Commander: Mono Black, Mono Blue
Pauper: Goblins
Game 1, Infect. Nuff said. Our deck doesn't have enough spot removal main or sideboard to combat this matchup, and we can't out clock them, especially with a rancor/evasion.
Game 2, U/W/R control. turn 3 win match 1, turn 4 win match 2.
Game 3, Scapeshift. Match 1 he knew I was playing Goblins so he kept 5 lands and an anger. That's just stupid. Who maindecks anger (ok, some people, I'm just salty) but then goes around scouting other matchups so they know what hands to keep. Match 2 he just had Timely Reinforcements, Baloth, Anger.
Game 4, Kiln Fiend. He stomped me 2-0. We need more spot removal in the board.
Overall, I'm salty about the night, didn't see 1 single grenade so that doesn't help.
Speaking of Mogg Fanatic, he reminds me of Cursecatcher. Those cards pull weight that we don't even see, and I'm never leaving home without one or the other (when playing with those decks ofc).
1. RW Noring Soul Sisters deck, was really annoying, second game leyline of punishment never showed. 0-2
2. Faced Elves, I removed a lot of their elves, but was not enough to beat them on the first game. Second game I mulligan once and kept a hand with 1 land, hoping to get the second one, but never showed until too late, still I remove a lot of their elves. 0-2
3. I faced a deck with leyline of santity main, fog like spells and isotronic scetre. was soo annoying, second game I did not expect the Firewalker. I was able to destroy the isotronic, but firewalkers defeated me. 0-2.
4. I faced boogles, and was hard to beat them, he got the two games the coronet. 0-2.
Uber sad night for gobbos.
(Trying a one-of Shared Animosity instead of Devastating Summons)
Match 1: Grixis control? Lots of kill cards, draw cards, spot removal and stuff that leads up to Kalitas. Game 1 I was just too fast and he never saw Kalitas. Out: -4 Reckless Bushwhacker, -1 Shared Animosity; +2 Magmatic Chasm +3 Skullcrack.
Game 2 I got him down to 10 but he landed Kalitas and couldn't get around it. He also killed a few of my gobos and got some zombie tokens so he started growing his board.
Game 3 was a lot like game 1. He was trying to keep up while I kept the pressure up. He landed Kalitas and was tapped out. Had a few creatures on the board, kicked a Goblin Bushwhacker and then cast Magmatic Chasm and that was it. 2-1.
Match 2: U/R Delver. Delver of Secrets, and lots of prowess creatures. I don't remember much about this match-up except that he was looking at my hand a lot and one game my opponent got land screwed. I had a Goblin Guide on the field when he was land screwed and opted not to attack with him. It paid off because he never got the land. Don't remember my sideboarding. 2-1.
Match 3: GOBLIN MIRROR MATCH! Yeaaaaah! First game was lots of trading back and forth, but I pulled more War Marshals and bolted his key cards. He was also stuck on two lands. Out: -1 Shared Animosity, -4 Reckless Bushwhacker; +3 Forked Bolt, +2 Magmatic Chasm. Mulled down to 5. Had three lands, but I didn't want to go to four. He was stuck on one land. Again, I had Goblin Guide on the field but kept him back just in case my opponent saw that land. Pretty much swept this match. 2-0.
Match 4: Jeskai control? I think this was his own brew. Used Snapcaster Mage, [/card]Young Pyromancer[/card], Swiftspear, Stormchaser Mage, and lots of removal and/or counters. He was also using Declaration in Stone. He used that in game two against two Mogg Fanatics. He was down to 4 life and I was really tempted to blow them up, but ultimately decided to let it resolve and I'm glad I did. I had 4 mana so I used the clues at the end of his turn and drew into straight gas. I was able to swarm the board and he had nothing he could do. But, he got there game 1 and 3. I think game 1 I flooded hard... something like 5 lands in a row. Oh well, variance is a bizznich.
Hope this was helpful!
Like treachtv said, I personally find the infect matchup supremely favored. The 4 Mogg Fanatics and 4 Lightning Bolts are essential to winning the first game, then sideboard I add Destructive Revelry's to kill the Inkmoths as well as my current package of 1 Electrickery, 1 Forked Bolt, and 2 Searing Blaze. Sure, I've lost games, but as I mentioned about 3-4 pages ago, I don't actually think I've lost to Infect with Goblins, going 7-0 or something. Part of it is that my opponent's haven't always been the best pilots, as Infect seems to attract the more budget players, but spell sequencing is absolutely CRUCIAL in the Infect matchup. Knowing when to pop off your Fanatics, when to Bolt to give yourself the most protection. I take out my aggressive cards like Piledrivers and Reckless Bushwhackers and strap in to play the control game. Yes, this does require more spot removal in the board, but my meta at the moment has a lot of Elves floating around, so I can easily trade in an extra spot removal card.
The whole "turning into a control deck" plan is something I've grown to appreciate over time. I find success doing this against decks like Infect, Affinity, and even UR Storm.
edit: I should mention that if you're not running green for sideboard, Smash to Smithereens is a fine option against Infect. Inkmoth Nexus is that hard to kill, and damage based removal has quite a few more windows where it's bad against the pump spells. Inkmoth and Blighted Agent are the cards that should eat your removal first, although I will kill a t1 Hierarch if my hand has enough backup interaction.
I also got unlucky draws, and game 2 he was using inkmoth and I was using forked bolt, so i didn't do well. Why play control against ur storm?