Thanks guys, I'll get to work on one. And, I just looked up the requirements to take over a primer. This may take longer than I thought to produce a quality primer with graphics and videos now that I play on MTGO. I can go about this two ways, add to this primer or just make my own sub primer within the competitive thread. More than likely I'll go about the second one since I have invested so much time and money into Gobots I rather just have a space just for Gobots.
@bptrumpet
Your list seems to boast those years of experience handling Gobots/KRed. Once I get something developed I would like to have your input on the product good sir.
Just looking at all the different versions of goblins floating around is a lot to take in. Is there a link somewhere for goblins(and one for gobots) that lists the following?
1) An UPDATED stock goblin (or gobot) list that incorporates Reckless Bushwacker. The ones on the primer do not include this very important fellow anywhere
2) The ideal number of one drops, two drops, etc. This would be helpful for experimenting with different cards (I.E. taking out Mogg War Marshall and trying out Burning Tree Emissary)
Thanks.
I second that a primer update is needed. I'll write something up on Gobots if needed.
For someone who is working with Gobots specifically, I'd appreciate a dedicated primer.
Okay well I'll get to work on one. And, I just looked up the requirements to take over a primer. This may take longer than I thought to produce a quality primer with graphics and videos now that I play on MTGO. I will go about this two ways. Add to this one or just make my own sub primer within the competitive thread.
I had already tried to take over this primer, you've gotta go through Franx. He said he'd be updating it about 4/5 months ago and it never happened.
Boo. lol Well, that answers it. I'll just branch out as it is getting a bit crowded in here and if one version gets update over the others it will dominate the thread and possibly force some innovative minds out you know.
I'm pretty sure if you contact a mod and say the primer's not being updated, they'll set it up. Not sure what other hoops need to get jumped through, but I've seen a few outdated primers get taken over when abandoned.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Currently Playing: R8whackR WUBGAtraxa Stax-Superfriends *Under Construction*WUBG
Chieftain is a 3 of because 4 is just too much for this 19 land deck that's running 7 creatures that aren't goblins / potential goblins (burning tree and signal pest).
Glad to hear about someone who has lots of experience with the deck!
I was actually curious about goblin chieftain. Your list and my list are pretty similar aside from the chieftain (i run mishra's baubles instead). I think chieftain is good but often the game ends before i even get to 3 mana, and i feel i need every single card in my hand to win... has this been an issue? Also you say we have 7 non goblins with signal pest and burning-tree emissary but i count 7 more with memnite and ornithopter... this is kind of a lot non-goblins, has this been a problem? Those are the reasons i'm currently staying away from chieftain, but maybe i'm wrong?
Also i think the printing of reckless bushwhacker has greatly improved the kuldotha red/8 whack/gobots/however you call it deck, Having access to 8 redundant/similar important cards in a decks makes the deck much more consistent. Now i see one/multiple whacks every game.
Your list seems to boast those years of experience handling Gobots/KRed. Once I get something developed I would like to have your input on the product good sir.
I'd enjoy helping with it ... and getting used to "gobots". It's been one of my favorite decks since I picked it up as the 'Into the Breach' event deck and played it during that game day where you had to pick Mirran or Phyrexia. I played it in standard until whenever it rotated, then picked it up off and on as my "backup modern deck" since Modern has been a format. I still keep it in the original event deck box, haha. I've never played it in anything larger than a 30-40 person modern event though ... mainly because until recently (the printing of reckless bushwacker), the deck only had the power but not the consistency to make it anything more than a FNM level "surprise your meta" deck. I guess the jury is still out on how well it'll do in larger stuff. Maybe it'll have its chance after eldrazi bans happen.
I'll argue that Goblins/GoBots/8-Whack is quite good in a UW Eldrazi meta - though not so much against the other Eldrazi variants.
8-Whack/Goblins has already showed some results online (enough to dent a place on the goldfish charts) which means something since I'll would count online result higher then FNM and most local qualifier events.
Ya unfortunately I had just moved into my house and got busy with work. I'll just do it tomorrow and get it over with. To be perfectly honest goblins, as a whole, has changed at least 4 times when it comes to deck lists over the past 4/5 months. So it's hard to judge what lists to run and what is the best list at the time. Considering that all the splashes have fallen out yet mono red still has major flaws. Please PM any and all ideas. Since I am now officially settled I can just get it over with since I've been terrible for updating wise. What is the best solution? I have a few ideas. I can just post a basic shell for any goblin list and people can go from there. It's all up to you guys, since all of us have contributed in some way shape or form.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Modern: B 8Rack RX Goblins BG Elves (Attempting) UBW Mill G Stompy UB Tezzerator
Legacy: W Stax
While I was looking at Jeskai prowess decks, i came across Mtg Goldfish's 8 whack deck. So instead of buying a set of Snapcaster's i'm buying into this deck to have a fun competitive deck while i build Jund over the next year or so. I'll start with the budget version w/o Goblin Guide(aka MTGGoldfish list) but i do plan on getting them. I've gotten beat up by a few standard Goblin decks and they're nasty. The variants with G/B splashes seem like good ideas but personally i think mono red is the way to go and it keeps it simple. At my meta there's Tron, UW Control, Jeskai Control, GB midrange, Merfolk, Zoo and Suicide Zoo, Burn, Affinity, Elves, Dredge, and only 1 or 2 eldrazi with a couple other decks. Hope to have this list ready in a couple weeks!
I agree that 3 Reckless Bushwhacker and less chieftains is the way to move forward. I think the 8whack mono-red Goblin core is pretty much solid, having everyone tweek it to their preference. I really think Goblins can have shot at being a Tier 2 deck.
My biggest question: how do we sideboard against the Tier 1 decks: Jund, Affinity, Abzan CoCo, Burn, UW Eldrazi, Tron?
Especcially what card do you take out for what? Do we play Blood Moon?
I play with Blood Moon with a great success, on this meta with many shocks and fetchs for 3 colors decks its very powerful card. You gain time to make your way.
I agree that 3 Reckless Bushwhacker and less chieftains is the way to move forward. I think the 8whack mono-red Goblin core is pretty much solid, having everyone tweek it to their preference. I really think Goblins can have shot at being a Tier 2 deck.
My biggest question: how do we sideboard against the Tier 1 decks: Jund, Affinity, Abzan CoCo, Burn, UW Eldrazi, Tron?
Especcially what card do you take out for what? Do we play Blood Moon?
Jund -
Out: 3 Piledriver (almost auto side out against bolt decks), 1 Mogg Fanatic (low impact)
In: 2 Dismember (for Kalitas, Tasigur, Goyf, Scooze), 2 Pillar of Flame (Finks)
Affinity -
Out: 4 Foundry Street Denizen (he cannot profitably attack into a memnite, this is bad), 1 Stingscourger (low impact), 1 Chieftain (a little slow)
In: 2 Reality Hemorrhage (Etched, some players play Kor Firewalker), 2 Shattering Spree (the best), 2 Smash to Smithereens (save for man lands or try to trap ravager)
Abzan CoCo - note: this matchup is difficult. They have tons of main deck lifegain, they can often threaten the combo, they clog up the ground. I personally want to take more of a control role in the matchup here as we have the tools to prevent them from going off. Also difficult is that there are many different builds. The key here is to try to win with big Piledriver swings and hoping to avoid lifegain hate. If they play and activate a Gavony Township you're probably going to lose. Good luck!
Out: 4 Foundry (LOTS of creatures running around means our x/1 friend will have a hard time getting through), 1 Stingscourger (sloooow, and tempo advantages aren't great here), 1 Goblin Grenade (you need a little bit more of a board presence in this matchup and they run FAR less removal so you don't want to be as suicidal with your board)
In: 2 Grafdigger's Cage (completely shuts down the combo, shuts down chord of calling, shuts down Collected Company, shuts down finks), 2 Reality Hemorrhage (Kor Firewalker, ugh), 2 Pillar of Flames (more finks hate, also hits Voice of Resurgence well if they run that)
UW Eldrazi - (note: this deck is going to look very different in 3 weeks if it continues to exist at all)
Out: 4 Foundry (x/1 is baaaad here)
In: 2 Dismember, 1 Stingscourger, 1 Pillar of Flame (extra burn)
Tron - I don't have much for Tron right now. I don't see it at all because of Eldrazi, and our main gameplan is so good there's not point in dedicating sideboard slots to it. Play around pyroclasm by sandbagging your hand, burn them out the rest of the way once Wurmcoil is down.
Out: 2 Reckless (less able to allow you to sandbag your hand because of surge)
In: 2 Pillar of Flame (extra burn)
I don't personally play blood moon, but others do.
Hey guys, primers updated, I will be doing some updates all day as well as adding matchups and videos towards the end of the night.
Updates (03/16/16):
*The shell has been redone, adding goblin piledriver and removing chieftain.
*Added color splashing mana bases
*Added more sideboard/mainboard options
*Removed Red color effects
*Added types of goblin decks (No-Lord's, 8whack, and Gobots)
*Added additional Synergy information
*Added better updated sample lists
*Added/Removed more goblins
You run almost the same deck as me (and probably any other goblin player using the mono-red build ). I'd recommend you run 4 mogg fanatics, they might not look too impressive but they:
1) Are one point of extra burn damage
2) Can be sacrificed in response to a boardwipe
3) They can block lifelink creatures like Wurmcoil, be sacrificed before damage and thus ignore the lifelink and buy you another turn
4) They take care of mana dorks and other bothersome x/1 creatures (basicly, anything with infect too)
5) They make profitable blocks. For example, when I played against Zoo once, my opponent attacked me with a Goblin Guide and a Reckless Bushwhacker (still a zoo deck, but probably a goblin player in disguise ). I block the guide, sac the fanatic before damage to take out the unblocked Reckless Bushwhacker. Result: I take no damage and basically my opponent wasted a turn.
So yeah, I'd run a full playset of them. You might take out 2 Chieftains. I run two myself, but I side them out most of the time to be honest. 4 seems a bit much for the mono-red build, as they cost 3 mana.
Also, I run 3 Reckless Bushwhackers myself (in addition to 4 Goblin Bushwhackers), I never really missed the 4th one since I generally see 2-3 bushwhackers each game, which has proven to be enough for me. You could try and play 1 devastating summons instead of the 4th Reckless?
Thanks for the feedback. I'll add in the other 2 fanatics; I had them potentially in the board, but you pretty much sold me on them. I think I was a little jaded when I threw the list together: in pauper, arsonist gets the nod over fanatic. Fanatic is definitely lackluster in pauper since being able to trade with a x/2 is more important there, plus there are way more sac effects in the pauper list (raider / sledder) to do combat tricks with that just can't be done with fanatic. But yeah, I agree in modern it's way more important to ping a mana dork / infecter / mimic / bob / etc...
LMAO that was good, "Nooo. wait...no." That was a blow out which isn't uncommon for Gobots. B)
Note, I have been playing a lot and I really see the need for anti-life gain and something flexible to handle all the sweepers which come in the form of creatures, red, and black color sources. So, with that I'm going Rakos for SB optipns. Prime candidates are rain of gore and thoughtseize.
I've been relatively happy with 4 Skullcrack in the SB for the mono-r variant. It allows for some nice combat tricks; I've blown out quite a few etched champions, auriok champions, burrentons, master of waves, etc...
The enchantments work well too, but with the benefit of their static consistency, you lose the blowout potential of instant speed combat tricks.
One more to consider (in addition to Rain of Gore, Leyline of Punishment, Atarka's Command, and Skullcrack) is Everlasting Torment. All of those choices have their pros and cons, so which one you go with is mostly a meta call. Do you need it to turn off pro-red? Are you splashing a color to support it and what else does that color give you? Do you need it turn 0? Do you need it to deal with persist/finks?
This is my current list. I prefer a maximum of haste creatures. since there is only 1 eldrazi in my meta, i am happy to cut 4x Mogg War Marshal for those 4 Spike Jesters. Black splash is free and doesn't hurt. I also play no lords goblins. Allows me to play 18 land. Went 3-0 tonight, won against Tron, Small Zoo and Scapeshift. Might cut 1 Reckless Bushwhacker for 1 more SSG. Love the tempo and i found it pretty hard to always cast Bushwhacker. Sideboard was just a throw-together and is not near to perfect. greetings to all goblin players.
I've been relatively happy with 4 Skullcrack in the SB for the mono-r variant. It allows for some nice combat tricks; I've blown out quite a few etched champions, auriok champions, burrentons, master of waves, etc...
The enchantments work well too, but with the benefit of their static consistency, you lose the blowout potential of instant speed combat tricks.
One more to consider (in addition to Rain of Gore, Leyline of Punishment, Atarka's Command, and Skullcrack) is Everlasting Torment. All of those choices have their pros and cons, so which one you go with is mostly a meta call. Do you need it to turn off pro-red? Are you splashing a color to support it and what else does that color give you? Do you need it turn 0? Do you need it to deal with persist/finks?
Skullcrack is awesome for mono-red, I run 2 of them mainboard. They are a swiss army knife really, very versatile. The problem is that when you use it as a combat trick, you need to keep the mana open. But I like Skullcrack, I like it a lot. Last time I double-skullcracked a Tron player to 0. It was beautiful.
Everlasting Torment is great, but sometimes I'm having trouble with the 3cmc and I never get to cast it. Rain of Gore seems so much easier to cast, if you have the black splash that is. But it doesn't get rid of Firewalker. Maybe that's not so bad, because Rain of Gore does other good things that make us want the Firewalker to keep walking. It also depends on the meta like you say of course. I play a lot against B/W Tokens (terrible, terrible matchup for our goblins), so I really need something anti-lifegain that sticks. If it is Firewalkers or Finks you're worried about, maybe something like reality hemorrhage, Skullcrack or Pillar of flames would be better, because it could go to the face if needed.
For me, it's the life gain. Protection doesn't bother me too much as it is the extra turn they get off of life gain, because it usually results in a win for them. the other thing is that I can never find myself with open mana to crack off a card like skullcrack unless I know what I'm attacking into or its late game plus. And lastly, there seems to be an abundance of avenues to increase life and the same goes to sweeping the battlefield. Because there are so many avenues to life gain and sweepers I feel we can't possibly SB against it all. By splashing white we can stop red sweepers, but not black or colorless; however, black can via hand disruption. Red, green, and blue require mana to remain up, which is difficult on a deck that wants to win so early. And, if it's worked for robots I'm thinking hand disruption will help us too.
@bptrumpet
Your list seems to boast those years of experience handling Gobots/KRed. Once I get something developed I would like to have your input on the product good sir.
YOUTUBE CHANNEL: GOBOTS
I had already tried to take over this primer, you've gotta go through Franx. He said he'd be updating it about 4/5 months ago and it never happened.
YOUTUBE CHANNEL: GOBOTS
R8whackR
WUBGAtraxa Stax-Superfriends *Under Construction*WUBG
Glad to hear about someone who has lots of experience with the deck!
I was actually curious about goblin chieftain. Your list and my list are pretty similar aside from the chieftain (i run mishra's baubles instead). I think chieftain is good but often the game ends before i even get to 3 mana, and i feel i need every single card in my hand to win... has this been an issue? Also you say we have 7 non goblins with signal pest and burning-tree emissary but i count 7 more with memnite and ornithopter... this is kind of a lot non-goblins, has this been a problem? Those are the reasons i'm currently staying away from chieftain, but maybe i'm wrong?
Also i think the printing of reckless bushwhacker has greatly improved the kuldotha red/8 whack/gobots/however you call it deck, Having access to 8 redundant/similar important cards in a decks makes the deck much more consistent. Now i see one/multiple whacks every game.
I'd enjoy helping with it ... and getting used to "gobots".
Pioneer:
EDH:
8-Whack/Goblins has already showed some results online (enough to dent a place on the goldfish charts) which means something since I'll would count online result higher then FNM and most local qualifier events.
Enjoy Standard, Modern and Music (also some Pauper, Momir, Gaming, Animations and Legacy)? Then visit my channel:Here
Modern:
B 8Rack
RX Goblins
BG Elves (Attempting)
UBW Mill
G Stompy
UB Tezzerator
Legacy:
W Stax
I play with Blood Moon with a great success, on this meta with many shocks and fetchs for 3 colors decks its very powerful card. You gain time to make your way.
Current list for reference: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/10-03-16-mono-red-goblins/
My sideboard (mono red build):
2 Smash to Smithereens
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Dismember
2 Pillar of Flame
2 Reality Hemorrhage
1 Singscourger
Jund -
Out: 3 Piledriver (almost auto side out against bolt decks), 1 Mogg Fanatic (low impact)
In: 2 Dismember (for Kalitas, Tasigur, Goyf, Scooze), 2 Pillar of Flame (Finks)
Affinity -
Out: 4 Foundry Street Denizen (he cannot profitably attack into a memnite, this is bad), 1 Stingscourger (low impact), 1 Chieftain (a little slow)
In: 2 Reality Hemorrhage (Etched, some players play Kor Firewalker), 2 Shattering Spree (the best), 2 Smash to Smithereens (save for man lands or try to trap ravager)
Abzan CoCo - note: this matchup is difficult. They have tons of main deck lifegain, they can often threaten the combo, they clog up the ground. I personally want to take more of a control role in the matchup here as we have the tools to prevent them from going off. Also difficult is that there are many different builds. The key here is to try to win with big Piledriver swings and hoping to avoid lifegain hate. If they play and activate a Gavony Township you're probably going to lose. Good luck!
Out: 4 Foundry (LOTS of creatures running around means our x/1 friend will have a hard time getting through), 1 Stingscourger (sloooow, and tempo advantages aren't great here), 1 Goblin Grenade (you need a little bit more of a board presence in this matchup and they run FAR less removal so you don't want to be as suicidal with your board)
In: 2 Grafdigger's Cage (completely shuts down the combo, shuts down chord of calling, shuts down Collected Company, shuts down finks), 2 Reality Hemorrhage (Kor Firewalker, ugh), 2 Pillar of Flames (more finks hate, also hits Voice of Resurgence well if they run that)
Burn -
Out: 1 Stingscourger, 3 Piledriver
In: 2 Reality Hemorrhage, 2 Pillar of Flame (more burn)
UW Eldrazi - (note: this deck is going to look very different in 3 weeks if it continues to exist at all)
Out: 4 Foundry (x/1 is baaaad here)
In: 2 Dismember, 1 Stingscourger, 1 Pillar of Flame (extra burn)
Tron - I don't have much for Tron right now. I don't see it at all because of Eldrazi, and our main gameplan is so good there's not point in dedicating sideboard slots to it. Play around pyroclasm by sandbagging your hand, burn them out the rest of the way once Wurmcoil is down.
Out: 2 Reckless (less able to allow you to sandbag your hand because of surge)
In: 2 Pillar of Flame (extra burn)
I don't personally play blood moon, but others do.
I like Relic for Living End, Goryo's, Bubble Hulk, and Snapcaster decks.
I bring the extra Stingscourger in against Living End, and Eldrazi.
Updates (03/16/16):
*The shell has been redone, adding goblin piledriver and removing chieftain.
*Added color splashing mana bases
*Added more sideboard/mainboard options
*Removed Red color effects
*Added types of goblin decks (No-Lord's, 8whack, and Gobots)
*Added additional Synergy information
*Added better updated sample lists
*Added/Removed more goblins
This is just for now, more to come today
Modern:
B 8Rack
RX Goblins
BG Elves (Attempting)
UBW Mill
G Stompy
UB Tezzerator
Legacy:
W Stax
Thanks for the feedback. I'll add in the other 2 fanatics; I had them potentially in the board, but you pretty much sold me on them. I think I was a little jaded when I threw the list together: in pauper, arsonist gets the nod over fanatic. Fanatic is definitely lackluster in pauper since being able to trade with a x/2 is more important there, plus there are way more sac effects in the pauper list (raider / sledder) to do combat tricks with that just can't be done with fanatic. But yeah, I agree in modern it's way more important to ping a mana dork / infecter / mimic / bob / etc...
Pioneer:
EDH:
https://youtu.be/YYaIlpS2GoY?list=PL04lbfeNAaS_SxrqaSXFzykcFVVGRzwZ-
LSV piloting elves into Kuldotha Red's fury.
Pioneer:
EDH:
Note, I have been playing a lot and I really see the need for anti-life gain and something flexible to handle all the sweepers which come in the form of creatures, red, and black color sources. So, with that I'm going Rakos for SB optipns. Prime candidates are rain of gore and thoughtseize.
YOUTUBE CHANNEL: GOBOTS
The enchantments work well too, but with the benefit of their static consistency, you lose the blowout potential of instant speed combat tricks.
One more to consider (in addition to Rain of Gore, Leyline of Punishment, Atarka's Command, and Skullcrack) is Everlasting Torment. All of those choices have their pros and cons, so which one you go with is mostly a meta call. Do you need it to turn off pro-red? Are you splashing a color to support it and what else does that color give you? Do you need it turn 0? Do you need it to deal with persist/finks?
Pioneer:
EDH:
4x Auntie's Hovel
4x Blackcleave Cliffs
2x Blood Crypt
4x Bloodstained Mire
4x Mountain
34_Creatures
4x Foundry Street Denizen
1x Frenzied Goblin
4x Goblin Bushwhacker
4x Goblin Guide
4x Goblin Piledriver
4x Legion Loyalist
4x Mogg Fanatic
4x Reckless Bushwhacker
1x Simian Spirit Guide
4x Spike Jester
4x Lightning Bolt
4x Goblin Grenade
2x Forked Bolt
1x Gurmag Angler
3x Shattering Spree
3x Skullcrack
2x Smash to Smithereens
2x Tormod's Crypt
2x Traitorous Blood
This is my current list. I prefer a maximum of haste creatures. since there is only 1 eldrazi in my meta, i am happy to cut 4x Mogg War Marshal for those 4 Spike Jesters. Black splash is free and doesn't hurt. I also play no lords goblins. Allows me to play 18 land. Went 3-0 tonight, won against Tron, Small Zoo and Scapeshift. Might cut 1 Reckless Bushwhacker for 1 more SSG. Love the tempo and i found it pretty hard to always cast Bushwhacker. Sideboard was just a throw-together and is not near to perfect. greetings to all goblin players.
For me, it's the life gain. Protection doesn't bother me too much as it is the extra turn they get off of life gain, because it usually results in a win for them. the other thing is that I can never find myself with open mana to crack off a card like skullcrack unless I know what I'm attacking into or its late game plus. And lastly, there seems to be an abundance of avenues to increase life and the same goes to sweeping the battlefield. Because there are so many avenues to life gain and sweepers I feel we can't possibly SB against it all. By splashing white we can stop red sweepers, but not black or colorless; however, black can via hand disruption. Red, green, and blue require mana to remain up, which is difficult on a deck that wants to win so early. And, if it's worked for robots I'm thinking hand disruption will help us too.
YOUTUBE CHANNEL: GOBOTS