I see Reckless Bushwhacker as a 2-of, for the reasons mentioned. You don't want to overdo it on boost, but you want it to be easy to cast. I don't see him as a 3-drop, he's almost always a 2-drop... either by chaining off a Burning Tree (which GB can't), using a Spirit Guide to squeeze out a turn 2 spell (just like with GB), or casting him along pretty much anything on turn 3 (just like GB). Yeah, you don't necessarily want to top deck him mid game with an empty board, but you can say that about a lot of the deck.
This along with BTE and a SSG can make for stupid explosive turn 1 damage. Combat damage! Best hand can deal 14 on turn 1 (totally christmasland).
Balancing the number of two drops and pump effects is what i have been concentrating on. From there you can find some sort of balance hopefully. In my opinion - 8-10 pump effects is correct (probably 8). You should want 1-2 per game but no more than that. It is often the killing blow and against removal they underperform massively. So be careful to diversify and not overemphasize the pumps. Cant wait to get my hands on the bew gobbo as well!
This is probably a good balance but it puts your pumps at 8. I might be happier keeping Atarka's because although it's a touch harder to cast, it does more. I'm debating [-1 Piledriver, -1 Mogg Fanatic] for a pair of Reckless. Would put me at 9 total.
And how about those Spirit Guides?
I have not toyed enough with the number of spirit guides in my build - I have always run 4xSSG and 16xLand. This config has worked well the majority of the time. I think you can use 3xSSG in a build as well, but I am not sure if it is optimal. 2xSSG seems too few to get the benefit to me - that will probably be more swingy? Not sure...
I think 9 pump is a good way to start your build. I also believe the new guy to be a 1-2-of in most builds as long as your just sort of sticking him in the established R/G atarka's mix. If dedicating to a token go extremely wide and pump strategy I can see more. He is the lesser of all the pump effects imo, but not by much. They are all pretty on par with each other with slight advantages in different situations:
Reckless Bushwhacker - better topdeck than Goblin bushwhacker on an empty board (so long as you have 3 mana). Stays 2/1 haste. Chains off of BTE.
Goblin Bushwhacker - most consistent and easiest to cast
Atarka's Command - Toughness is nice, reach is nice, preventing lifegain is nice.
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Legacy:B The Gate // B Pox Modern:RGB Dredge // RBG Goblins // B The Gate // UBR Tezz AoB Control // RBG Prison Pox EDH:RBU Thraximundar // R Norin the Wary // RWB Kaalia of the Vast // BUR Grixis Combos // BU Gisa and Geralf Tribal Tiny Leaders:BUW Sydri, Galvanic Genius // R Feldon of the Third Path
I was adding up the possible turn 1 damage with reckless bushwacker in the turn 3 goblins list. It's possible to deal 18 damage turn with him. 2 chancelors, 1 land, 1 ssg, 1 bte, 1 reckless and 1 fury of the horde. I know this is fairy tale Christmas land but getting so close to turn 1 win.
I am not the only one who favors blood moon alongside early pressure!
"I want to drop Goblin Guide and pals on turns 1-2 and then follow with a Moon while the opponent is busy clearing the clocks. I want to slam the enchantment on turn one like Peter Niemeier and get my slip signed."
T1 blood moon is singlehandedly the most broken, nasty, and fulfilling thing i have ever done in magic.
Legacy:B The Gate // B Pox Modern:RGB Dredge // RBG Goblins // B The Gate // UBR Tezz AoB Control // RBG Prison Pox EDH:RBU Thraximundar // R Norin the Wary // RWB Kaalia of the Vast // BUR Grixis Combos // BU Gisa and Geralf Tribal Tiny Leaders:BUW Sydri, Galvanic Genius // R Feldon of the Third Path
Has anyone tried jund in the turn 3 version? I ask because 2 of the people that play at my local shop run black white tokens and I just can't beat them. Too many blockers and the life gain is impossible to get past. Im not looking at running anything black main board just for sideboard. I feel like I have to have the green for destructive revelry and ancient grudge. With black I could run everlasting torment or virulent plague. I'm leaning towards virulent plague cause I just win if I cast it against tokens and no one else is really running life gain except for the 1 guy running tRon and another running lantern control. Any advice would be great. For land base I was thinking 7 fetches, 1 stomping ground, 1 blood crypt, 2 auntie"s hovel, 2 copper line forge and 3 mountain.
Well so you can. I didn't catch that. Do you think that would be my best line of play? I'm still not sure I can beat tokens with all their blockers.
You can. Ive never played it and it seems like a bad matchup, but i think one of your best answers would be trample and first strike effects. I like ghor can rampager for that in the sh or main. Also possibly consider some bonfire of the damned or magmatic chasm.
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Legacy:B The Gate // B Pox Modern:RGB Dredge // RBG Goblins // B The Gate // UBR Tezz AoB Control // RBG Prison Pox EDH:RBU Thraximundar // R Norin the Wary // RWB Kaalia of the Vast // BUR Grixis Combos // BU Gisa and Geralf Tribal Tiny Leaders:BUW Sydri, Galvanic Genius // R Feldon of the Third Path
Has anyone tried jund in the turn 3 version? I ask because 2 of the people that play at my local shop run black white tokens and I just can't beat them. Too many blockers and the life gain is impossible to get past. Im not looking at running anything black main board just for sideboard. I feel like I have to have the green for destructive revelry and ancient grudge. With black I could run everlasting torment or virulent plague. I'm leaning towards virulent plague cause I just win if I cast it against tokens and no one else is really running life gain except for the 1 guy running tRon and another running lantern control. Any advice would be great. For land base I was thinking 7 fetches, 1 stomping ground, 1 blood crypt, 2 auntie"s hovel, 2 copper line forge and 3 mountain.
Yes legion loyalist just beats them if it stays on the field. I played him once last week against tokens in a situation where it was going to be an alpha strike for the win when he was tapped out. What happened you ask? He dismembered it. That was game 1. Game 2 I got him to 4 life then out came sorin. Everlasting torment may have won that one for me.
Yes legion loyalist just beats them if it stays on the field. I played him once last week against tokens in a situation where it was going to be an alpha strike for the win when he was tapped out. What happened you ask? He dismembered it. That was game 1. Game 2 I got him to 4 life then out came sorin. Everlasting torment may have won that one for me.
its modern lol. blowouts are part and parcel to be expected if you play hyper aggro strategies.
Yes legion loyalist just beats them if it stays on the field. I played him once last week against tokens in a situation where it was going to be an alpha strike for the win when he was tapped out. What happened you ask? He dismembered it. That was game 1. Game 2 I got him to 4 life then out came sorin. Everlasting torment may have won that one for me.
its modern lol. blowouts are part and parcel to be expected if you play hyper aggro strategies.
This isn't even a blowout - its just 1-for-1 removal, and it happens. can you rely on loyalist every time you play tokens - of course not! You can't really rely on any tech in any matchup - because the draws are random. Loyalist, and our aggressive strategy should be enough to give you a very good chance to win G1, then G2 you SB. You might win or lose regardless of these cards. The advantage our decks have is that with a good draw it can beat just about anything - and that is something I would actually bet on.
Looking at specific scenarios where "he killed my important guy" is mostly useless. If you have answers in your 75, that is what matters - its all up to chance and how the game plays out (which will always be different) whether or not those cards help.
Like saying "I played my goblin piledriver off of a T1 Burning-tree emissary and simian spirit guide and then he died to removal" - what can we honestly gain from such a statement? That your sweet play didn't work because your opponent had an answer? Great - happens all the time in this game lol. People often use this as an argument against playing the card in the first place, which is pretty silly imo. Sometimes you get unlucky, and that 's it! I feel a lot of players think they can beat the luck aspect of the game by planning.
This quote pretty much sums it up:
The mob has plans, the cops have plans, Gordon’s got plans. You know, they’re schemers. Schemers trying to control their little worlds. I’m not a schemer. I try to show the schemers how pathetic their attempts to control things really are. So, when I say… Ah, come here.
When I say that you and your girlfriend was nothing personal, you know that I’m telling the truth. It’s the schemers that put you where you are. You were a schemer, you had plans, and look where that got you. I just did what I do best. I took your little plan and I turned it on itself. Look what I did to this city with a few drums of gas and a couple of bullets. Hmmm? You know… You know what I’ve noticed? Nobody panics when things go “according to plan.” Even if the plan is horrifying! If, tomorrow, I tell the press that, like, a gang banger will get shot, or a truckload of soldiers will be blown up, nobody panics, because it’s all “part of the plan.” But when I say that one little old mayor will die, well then everyone loses their minds!
Introduce a little anarchy. Upset the established order, and everything becomes chaos. I’m an agent of chaos. Oh, and you know the thing about chaos? It’s fair!
Lol - I love that scene.
As much as we plan things in mtg - it is really a chaotic game. Everything is more chance, and skill than it is cause and effect. Especially with linear strategies.
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Legacy:B The Gate // B Pox Modern:RGB Dredge // RBG Goblins // B The Gate // UBR Tezz AoB Control // RBG Prison Pox EDH:RBU Thraximundar // R Norin the Wary // RWB Kaalia of the Vast // BUR Grixis Combos // BU Gisa and Geralf Tribal Tiny Leaders:BUW Sydri, Galvanic Genius // R Feldon of the Third Path
The newest goblin (Freerunner) could be useful in Standard indeed, but I doubt he'll get a second look from any of us as far as modern goes. More or less unplayable, unless surge goblins become a thing Lets hope for some more (better) goblins tho!
Agreed on all fronts. Heres hoping for some 1-drops. or two drops without the surge requirement. Or a 1-drop surge guy. lol
I guess - here's hoping for more goblins in general!
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Legacy:B The Gate // B Pox Modern:RGB Dredge // RBG Goblins // B The Gate // UBR Tezz AoB Control // RBG Prison Pox EDH:RBU Thraximundar // R Norin the Wary // RWB Kaalia of the Vast // BUR Grixis Combos // BU Gisa and Geralf Tribal Tiny Leaders:BUW Sydri, Galvanic Genius // R Feldon of the Third Path
Hey guys i've recently found some time in between work and searching for a house, and need some help. I'm looking for examples of Goblin lists. RG, RB, Jund, and possibly RW are examples i'm looking for to include in the primer. I'll be working on it for most of the day, so anyone who has some time and wants to post their list here in the primer that would be extremely helpful. Whichever list is the best i'll include in the primer under example decks for splashes, and as well just examples of decks in general. Remember I need Jund, Gruul, Rakdos, and Boros decks in particular.
Thanks again,
- Chicken
P.S. You will be credited in the primer as well. Include sideboards if you like i'll be including those to.
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Modern: B 8Rack RX Goblins BG Elves (Attempting) UBW Mill G Stompy UB Tezzerator
Legacy: W Stax
There are also little variants on this build. You can lower your land count to 17 and It will still work. Or even replacing Piledriver for 2 extra burn spells. We've tried lots of things on those spots
The newest goblin (Freerunner) could be useful in Standard indeed, but I doubt he'll get a second look from any of us as far as modern goes. More or less unplayable, unless surge goblins become a thing Lets hope for some more (better) goblins tho!
The following list is the build I have been using for a little over a month now with good results. Some of the decisions I made in the deck are not characteristic of the general goblins community though, but it is a good example for people looking for a very aggressive build that accommodates blood moon well. I have written extensively about the benefits of blood moon in the deck in the past 15 or so pages if you want to know more about how it works in the deck and why I chose to include it. I say this because most people still seem to prefer not to run it in their decks.
My variant is explosive with the Simian Spirit guides enabling huge tempo plays in the early turns when combined with BTE, enabling early blood moons. I essentially took one of MedRage's mana bases on his monoR T3 goblin deck and removed all of the "combo" pieces (Fury and Chancellor). So far I have won two local events with variants of this list and placed (top 3) in 3 in the last month and a half - my local meta is very spread.
IMO - one of the most important things you can include in the primer is MedRage's mana spreadsheet. That has helped me understand this deck more than anything else. And his most up to date T3 list featuring fury of the horde.
Legacy:B The Gate // B Pox Modern:RGB Dredge // RBG Goblins // B The Gate // UBR Tezz AoB Control // RBG Prison Pox EDH:RBU Thraximundar // R Norin the Wary // RWB Kaalia of the Vast // BUR Grixis Combos // BU Gisa and Geralf Tribal Tiny Leaders:BUW Sydri, Galvanic Genius // R Feldon of the Third Path
I had my first successful outing with goblins last night. I went 3-2 and made my first top 8 in modern. I played the turn 3 version with just 1 card difference from medrage's deck. Here is my decklist
I won in 3 against infect in the first round, lost in 2 to infect in second round, won in 3 against bw eldrazi, lost in 2 against ur twin, and won in 3 against merfolk. I'm really happy with this version. I have played it twice now and have only hit the combo twice though. So with the new bushwacker i may side out the furies for it. the chancellors are very strong and i think they have been the reason i have won several matches.
I have not toyed enough with the number of spirit guides in my build - I have always run 4xSSG and 16xLand. This config has worked well the majority of the time. I think you can use 3xSSG in a build as well, but I am not sure if it is optimal. 2xSSG seems too few to get the benefit to me - that will probably be more swingy? Not sure...
I think 9 pump is a good way to start your build. I also believe the new guy to be a 1-2-of in most builds as long as your just sort of sticking him in the established R/G atarka's mix. If dedicating to a token go extremely wide and pump strategy I can see more. He is the lesser of all the pump effects imo, but not by much. They are all pretty on par with each other with slight advantages in different situations:
Reckless Bushwhacker - better topdeck than Goblin bushwhacker on an empty board (so long as you have 3 mana). Stays 2/1 haste. Chains off of BTE.
Goblin Bushwhacker - most consistent and easiest to cast
Atarka's Command - Toughness is nice, reach is nice, preventing lifegain is nice.
Modern: RGB Dredge // RBG Goblins // B The Gate // UBR Tezz AoB Control // RBG Prison Pox
EDH: RBU Thraximundar // R Norin the Wary // RWB Kaalia of the Vast // BUR Grixis Combos // BU Gisa and Geralf Tribal
Tiny Leaders: BUW Sydri, Galvanic Genius // R Feldon of the Third Path
Projects:
Gisa and Geralf Extreme-Tribal EDH
Esper Eldrazi Processor Control
Brewing with Kuldotha Forgemaster
Primer: "The Gate" - Mono Black in Modern
Modern Prison Pox - building a better plague
I am not the only one who favors blood moon alongside early pressure!
"I want to drop Goblin Guide and pals on turns 1-2 and then follow with a Moon while the opponent is busy clearing the clocks. I want to slam the enchantment on turn one like Peter Niemeier and get my slip signed."
T1 blood moon is singlehandedly the most broken, nasty, and fulfilling thing i have ever done in magic.
Modern: RGB Dredge // RBG Goblins // B The Gate // UBR Tezz AoB Control // RBG Prison Pox
EDH: RBU Thraximundar // R Norin the Wary // RWB Kaalia of the Vast // BUR Grixis Combos // BU Gisa and Geralf Tribal
Tiny Leaders: BUW Sydri, Galvanic Genius // R Feldon of the Third Path
Projects:
Gisa and Geralf Extreme-Tribal EDH
Esper Eldrazi Processor Control
Brewing with Kuldotha Forgemaster
Primer: "The Gate" - Mono Black in Modern
Modern Prison Pox - building a better plague
You can. Ive never played it and it seems like a bad matchup, but i think one of your best answers would be trample and first strike effects. I like ghor can rampager for that in the sh or main. Also possibly consider some bonfire of the damned or magmatic chasm.
Modern: RGB Dredge // RBG Goblins // B The Gate // UBR Tezz AoB Control // RBG Prison Pox
EDH: RBU Thraximundar // R Norin the Wary // RWB Kaalia of the Vast // BUR Grixis Combos // BU Gisa and Geralf Tribal
Tiny Leaders: BUW Sydri, Galvanic Genius // R Feldon of the Third Path
Projects:
Gisa and Geralf Extreme-Tribal EDH
Esper Eldrazi Processor Control
Brewing with Kuldotha Forgemaster
Primer: "The Gate" - Mono Black in Modern
Modern Prison Pox - building a better plague
This might help - Dolmen Gate.
YOUTUBE CHANNEL: GOBOTS
its modern lol. blowouts are part and parcel to be expected if you play hyper aggro strategies.
Active thread contributor of Jeskai Prowess Tempo
This isn't even a blowout - its just 1-for-1 removal, and it happens. can you rely on loyalist every time you play tokens - of course not! You can't really rely on any tech in any matchup - because the draws are random. Loyalist, and our aggressive strategy should be enough to give you a very good chance to win G1, then G2 you SB. You might win or lose regardless of these cards. The advantage our decks have is that with a good draw it can beat just about anything - and that is something I would actually bet on.
Looking at specific scenarios where "he killed my important guy" is mostly useless. If you have answers in your 75, that is what matters - its all up to chance and how the game plays out (which will always be different) whether or not those cards help.
Like saying "I played my goblin piledriver off of a T1 Burning-tree emissary and simian spirit guide and then he died to removal" - what can we honestly gain from such a statement? That your sweet play didn't work because your opponent had an answer? Great - happens all the time in this game lol. People often use this as an argument against playing the card in the first place, which is pretty silly imo. Sometimes you get unlucky, and that 's it! I feel a lot of players think they can beat the luck aspect of the game by planning.
This quote pretty much sums it up:
Lol - I love that scene.
As much as we plan things in mtg - it is really a chaotic game. Everything is more chance, and skill than it is cause and effect. Especially with linear strategies.
Modern: RGB Dredge // RBG Goblins // B The Gate // UBR Tezz AoB Control // RBG Prison Pox
EDH: RBU Thraximundar // R Norin the Wary // RWB Kaalia of the Vast // BUR Grixis Combos // BU Gisa and Geralf Tribal
Tiny Leaders: BUW Sydri, Galvanic Genius // R Feldon of the Third Path
Projects:
Gisa and Geralf Extreme-Tribal EDH
Esper Eldrazi Processor Control
Brewing with Kuldotha Forgemaster
Primer: "The Gate" - Mono Black in Modern
Modern Prison Pox - building a better plague
Real, yes.
Not sure if I'd be trying to get him in this deck though... he seems conditional without the upside of the new Whacker.
Maybe useful for Standard Goblins?
I guess - here's hoping for more goblins in general!
Modern: RGB Dredge // RBG Goblins // B The Gate // UBR Tezz AoB Control // RBG Prison Pox
EDH: RBU Thraximundar // R Norin the Wary // RWB Kaalia of the Vast // BUR Grixis Combos // BU Gisa and Geralf Tribal
Tiny Leaders: BUW Sydri, Galvanic Genius // R Feldon of the Third Path
Projects:
Gisa and Geralf Extreme-Tribal EDH
Esper Eldrazi Processor Control
Brewing with Kuldotha Forgemaster
Primer: "The Gate" - Mono Black in Modern
Modern Prison Pox - building a better plague
Thanks again,
- Chicken
P.S. You will be credited in the primer as well. Include sideboards if you like i'll be including those to.
Modern:
B 8Rack
RX Goblins
BG Elves (Attempting)
UBW Mill
G Stompy
UB Tezzerator
Legacy:
W Stax
I run the same mainboard -1 Piledriver +1 Pillar of Flame.
Agreed, it needed haste to be viable...
The following list is the build I have been using for a little over a month now with good results. Some of the decisions I made in the deck are not characteristic of the general goblins community though, but it is a good example for people looking for a very aggressive build that accommodates blood moon well. I have written extensively about the benefits of blood moon in the deck in the past 15 or so pages if you want to know more about how it works in the deck and why I chose to include it. I say this because most people still seem to prefer not to run it in their decks.
Here's the list:
4x Foundry Street Denizen
4x Goblin Guide
4x Legion Loyalist
4x Mogg Fanatic
4x Goblin Bushwhacker
4x Burning-Tree Emissary
3x Mogg War Marshal
3x Goblin Piledriver
4x Simian Spirit Guide
4x Lightning Bolt
4x Goblin Grenade
2x Atarka's Command
Lands (16):
4x Bloodstained Mire
4x Wooded Foothills
4x Copperline Gorge
1x Stomping Ground
3x Mountain
2x Forked Bolt
2x Rending Volley
2x Ancient Grudge
1x Destructive Revelry
1x Magmatic Chasm
2x Thorn of Amethyst
3x Blood Moon
2x Everlasting Torment
My variant is explosive with the Simian Spirit guides enabling huge tempo plays in the early turns when combined with BTE, enabling early blood moons. I essentially took one of MedRage's mana bases on his monoR T3 goblin deck and removed all of the "combo" pieces (Fury and Chancellor). So far I have won two local events with variants of this list and placed (top 3) in 3 in the last month and a half - my local meta is very spread.
IMO - one of the most important things you can include in the primer is MedRage's mana spreadsheet. That has helped me understand this deck more than anything else. And his most up to date T3 list featuring fury of the horde.
Modern: RGB Dredge // RBG Goblins // B The Gate // UBR Tezz AoB Control // RBG Prison Pox
EDH: RBU Thraximundar // R Norin the Wary // RWB Kaalia of the Vast // BUR Grixis Combos // BU Gisa and Geralf Tribal
Tiny Leaders: BUW Sydri, Galvanic Genius // R Feldon of the Third Path
Projects:
Gisa and Geralf Extreme-Tribal EDH
Esper Eldrazi Processor Control
Brewing with Kuldotha Forgemaster
Primer: "The Gate" - Mono Black in Modern
Modern Prison Pox - building a better plague
4 foundry street denizen
4 goblin guide
4 legion loyalist
4 goblin bushwacker
4 goblin piledriver
4 burning tree emissary
4 chancellor of the forge
4 lightning bolt
4 goblin grenade
3 fury of the horde
1 devastating summons
Lands
4 wooded foothills
3 bloodstained mire
2 stomping ground
2 copperline forge
5 mountain
4 simian spirit guide
I won in 3 against infect in the first round, lost in 2 to infect in second round, won in 3 against bw eldrazi, lost in 2 against ur twin, and won in 3 against merfolk. I'm really happy with this version. I have played it twice now and have only hit the combo twice though. So with the new bushwacker i may side out the furies for it. the chancellors are very strong and i think they have been the reason i have won several matches.