Oh ok, that makes sense, good luck this weekend. I didnt really state why Spellskite was weird, but my reasoning was 1)People arent really going to be targeting your creatures, so it doesnt help there. 2)It doesnt help in a Skite vs Skite battle too much, unless you want a really large Spellskite that will probably just die to removal, and 3)Game 1 is probably this decks best opportunity to just go all out aggro and get them before they board in the hate.
I'm testing 3 Kor Spiritdancers and 1 Ledgewalker, as opposed to 4 Spiritdancers. The built in evasion is really relevant, but I side Ledgewalker out on the draw, where I think it is too slow. I really lke drawing cards and if you get to untap with a Kor the deck feels bonkers, but I've been ok with 3, so far. This deck is tricky in the mull decisions since you sometimes have to keep 2 Bogles on the draw to fight a Thoughtseize, or you have to aggressively mull into a Leyline post board. Still, it is amazing how often a 5 or 6 card hand gets there if its the right combination.
Anyways, there is a sea of Eldrazi online now, and aggro decks looking to beat it, so Bogle it up while the getting is good.
Aside from Ethereal Armor, we've gotten very little from the last few sets (Personally, I run a singleton Angelic Gift, but it's not the norm). Have there been any leaks from OGW that you feel might be relevant to the deck and/or piqued your interest?
Should we be worried about Bonds of Mortality from OGW?
Not in my opinion. I don't see how this card would be playable unless Bogles became WAAAY more popular. I can't think of any other decks that rely on either hexproof or indestructible as their win condition. It's more efficient for opposing decks to play something like spellskite or fracturing gust that hurts other decks as well as Bogles.
Aside from Ethereal Armor, we've gotten very little from the last few sets (Personally, I run a singleton Angelic Gift, but it's not the norm). Have there been any leaks from OGW that you feel might be relevant to the deck and/or piqued your interest?
Not that I can see. Casting 10 mana eldrazi on turn 4 certainly isn't Bogles specialty, haha. There have been a few cheap enchantments so I'm still holding out hope. The thing I don't want to see is some killer enchantment that requires colorless mana. That would be frustrating.
As FoodChainGoblins often says, the 4 life from Nature's Claim isn't a drawback all the time. We can use it to target our own enchantments (Rancor, if possible) to gain some time against super aggressive decks like Burn or Zoo. While Natural State does hit most of things we would like to destroy, it's not necessarily an upgrade for us.
Round 1: Slivers. The guy was filling out his decklist halfway through the first game and the judge was going to give him a game-loss for tardiness, but I said I didn't care and just wanted to play magic. Off we go. Somehow he takes game 1 with random slivers. I was stuck on one land (shouldn't have kept the hand). Game 2 I land a Daybreak Coronet and go to work. Game 3 he nature's claims my Daybreak Coronet and triple blocks my bogle, but a kicked Vines of Vastwood and Rancor put me over the top and I'm still able to deal lethal. 1-0 after an easy matchup for bogles.
Round 2: Living End. Unless we draw Rest in Peace or other sideboard graveyard hate, 9/10 games we're going to lose to living end. I don't see any Rest in Peace and he cascades into Living End T3 both games. Quick loss for me and I'm 1-1 overall.
Round 3: Mirror Match! Game 1 I keep a hand with no creatures but a Vines of Vastwood so I keep it. T1 Windswept and pass, he plays bogle T1 and I fetch into Arbor and put on an umbra and swing. I get a Daybreak Coronet, he gets an unflinching courage, so both of us are gaining life pretty steadily. He draws and says "Finally...Path your Arbor." I cast Vines in response and his jaw drops. I draw into a Kor Spiritdancer and two turns later I do lethal. Game 2 he simply outraces me and I lose. Game 3 was similar to game 1 where we both have huge creatures, but another kicked Vines pushes me over the top of his bogle. I take it in 3 games to move to 2-1.
Round 4: UW control. Easy 2-0 after he calls a judge and tries arguing that his supreme verdict kills all my umbras and not just one. He was a real class act and I'm glad he elected to drop the event after I crushed him.
Round 5: RW land destruction. So I've never played against this deck before (I don't play online). He does nothing T1, I turn 1 bogle. T2 he plays Flagstones of Trokair and Boom from Boom // Bust and now I have 0 lands to his two. I play another land and manage to play an umbra (I really wish I had a keen sense). He plays stone rain and kills my other land, so now he's at 3 lands and I'm at 0. I plan another land but only manage to play a creature. He plays another stone rain. After another few turns he's at 1 life, then TOP DECKS Magus of the Tabernacle and I don't have any land to use to save my creatures. I lose game 1 on his top deck. Game 2 I'm on the play and get a quick Bogle + Ethereal Armor + Rancor and win easily, even after he kills 3 of my lands. Game 3 he gets the same Flagstone/Boom combo, but I manage to get a 3/3 bogle with keen sense and I'm feeling pretty good about the Keen Sense draw. T3 he casts Ensnaring Bridge and T4 Bottled Cloister. I lose game 3 because I simply can't attack and he blows up all my lands. Most frusrating matchup ever. I come in 10th and miss the top 8 playoff.
Overall impressions. Vines of Vastwood worked out ridiculously good and i highly suggest trying it over Path to Exile. It helped me prevent opponents from buffing their guys (can also prevent twin from resolving, without giving them a land), and it saved my Dryad Arbor and Spiritdancers on multiple occassions. There was never a time I wish I had a Path instead of Vines. I also liked having Burrenton Forge-Tender even though I didn't see burn or zoo, which I was heavily expecting in the local meta. It increased my odds of landing the ever-important T1 creature and immediately follow up with aura's, and the synergy with Vines worked really well to ensure I could protect any non-red removal.
I have a budget Bogles deck and planning to upgrade it. The early list had Noble Hierarch but I am not seeing it anymore lately. Is this just a meta call? I am basing from the deck list of Konan Ahmed which topped 8 SCG Las Vegas
Also, is Horizon Canopy purely for the extra draw? Will the deck take a dive if I don't have it and is there an alternative to it? In RG Tron, it is still fully functional even without Groves and can be replaced by Karplusan Forest in budget versions, although the life loss can sometime lose you the game against aggro decks.
The draw ability is pretty useful for us as we often run out of gas, so Horizon Canopy is the optimal choice for the deck. It is, however, a marginal benefit. Something you would always choose, if possible, but not necessarily makes a huge difference.
In other words, Horizon Canopy can be easily swaped by any land that produces G/W mana the turn it comes into play. Sure sometimes you'll lose the game, look at the top card of your deck and say "Man.. if I had just one more turn to draw this card I'd have won", but if it means saving $220+ for swaping the Horizon Canopies for Brushlands I'd say "Totally worth it".
If you want to play the deck make Horizon Canopy the last of your priorities. It will be slightly worse, but it is not as bad as not having the Daybreak Coronets or not having Fetchlands + Dryad Arbor in a meta filled with Lillianas (what is usually the case of most metas)
So Pulse of Murasa seems like a decent one of main deck or sideboard. 3 mana instant that gains us 6 life and gives us a creature back could help out against discard and living end.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Modern - BOGLES!, Suicide Zoo, U/B Mill and R/G Titan
Standard - Mono-white Humans and U/R Mill
Legacy - Maverick
Has anybody tried running Worship at all? Cmc of 4 isn't great, but it wouldn't matter when we dropped it so long as there's a hexproofer in play. It buys time, pumps Ethereal Armor, and in most games, it will only deactivate due to enchantment-removal rather than the creature claus. I picked up a few copies to test, so it should be a fun little experiment.
Has anybody tried running Worship at all? Cmc of 4 isn't great, but it wouldn't matter when we dropped it so long as there's a hexproofer in play. It buys time, pumps Ethereal Armor, and in most games, it will only deactivate due to enchantment-removal rather than the creature claus. I picked up a few copies to test, so it should be a fun little experiment.
4 mana is simply too much for something to be playable in this deck, especially in a format when hexproof + worship isn't anywhere near a hard lock. Affinity and infect deals infect damage, Junk has Siege Rhino, Amulet Bloom has Hivemind and GR Tron has Oblivion Stone/Karn/Ugin. Even decks that cannot easily deal with it like Jund/Twin can easily take care of it with discard and counterspells. After sideboard it gets worse as almost everyone is bringing in some sort of enchantment removal or more discard/edict effects. Against most matchups Worship is pretty much a mulligan. The matchups where it's good tend to be semi-aggressive creature decks like Zoo and Merfolk, but those decks are already great matchups since if you cannot deal with a Worship you probably can't deal with a Daybreak Coronet either.
Regarding Pulse of Murasa, it seems fairly terrible too. If it's some sort of anti-aggro card you should just be running something like Timely Reinforcement instead. If it's some sort of value recurring thing you could run Eternal Witness instead (or preferably don't). If it's some sort of hedge to be decent against both control and aggro, it's still terrible against combo and it doesn't fit in the deck in the first place. You would be better off just upping the number of auras like Unflinching Courage or Spirit Mantle.
Looking to try this deck out next. It seems to be in my budget range (minus canopy). Any suggested list or just go off of something in the primer?
I also am thinking of running 4 Oath of Nissa in this. It seems like a good fit for finding another creature or land since I'm not running the canopies.
The problem with Oath of Nissa is that it doesn't look for enchantments. With Bogles you never have a problem with lands, because with three you can play your whole deck, with some builds even with two. I had even games with only one land in play and I won almost. So you do not want to search for lands. And you only need creatures, if someone let you sacrifice one. So, proprably a sideboard card, but there also are better cards, like Leyline of Sanctity. Mainboard you want to play a Dryad Arbor to fetch it, when you have to sacrifice a creature.
The Horizon Canopy is in fact a card, that lets you cycle faster through your deck, because Bogles is really bad at topdecking. It makes your deck better, but isn't necessary.
After the Splinter Twin banning, it appears that Bogles has a solid opportunity to carve out a nice niche in the meta. Personally, Twin was the deck that caused me the most persistent problems; more than anything, I'm psyched that I can drop one or both mainboard Suppression Field Where do ya'll see Bogles going after the ban?
I like playing Bogles and have a deck pretty well built out though it's not optimized. It's my back-up deck behind UW Gifts Tron. Now that Twin is banned (a decent match-up for UW Tron), people are saying GR Tron will grow in popularity, which is a bad match-up for UW Tron. However, people are also saying that Bogles is a good match-up against GR Tron, so I think I'm going to start playing it and getting some of the missing toys I need (like Horizon Canopy). That being said, any good advice on playing Bogles against GR Tron? I will go back and read through the thread when I have a chance, so if it's already been discussed I guess I'm just interested in any potential updates that should be made after the ban announcement. Thanks!
I like playing Bogles and have a deck pretty well built out though it's not optimized. It's my back-up deck behind UW Gifts Tron. Now that Twin is banned (a decent match-up for UW Tron), people are saying GR Tron will grow in popularity, which is a bad match-up for UW Tron. However, people are also saying that Bogles is a good match-up against GR Tron, so I think I'm going to start playing it and getting some of the missing toys I need (like Horizon Canopy). That being said, any good advice on playing Bogles against GR Tron? I will go back and read through the thread when I have a chance, so if it's already been discussed I guess I'm just interested in any potential updates that should be made after the ban announcement. Thanks!
For some weird reason, I have a bad history with Tron and I don't know why people saying it is a good MU especially they land that freaking Ugin and is game over for us. @_@
How does this deck perform vs the new Eldrazi decks?
I would increase the number of Spirit Mantle now I think. So far in my testing, I find it an ok MU as long as they don't have that much discard in their hand, were good. and post board we have leyline and gaddock.
Tron never felt as a good matchup for me. Sure they don't do much during the first turns, se we feel confortable to swing for a lot of damage (assuming they don't Pyroclasm us before we can give a proper suit to our Bogle). But a resolved Ugin is pretty much gg, I guess Newlamog is quite close for it. Also, this new Kozilek's Return is quite scary.
But speaking of Splinter Twin's ban: what do you think about Suppression Field maindeck? I guess Twin was the number one reason to play it, but it also slows down Tron (Tutors and Planeswalkers), Affinity, anything playing Lilliana...
I'm testing 3 Kor Spiritdancers and 1 Ledgewalker, as opposed to 4 Spiritdancers. The built in evasion is really relevant, but I side Ledgewalker out on the draw, where I think it is too slow. I really lke drawing cards and if you get to untap with a Kor the deck feels bonkers, but I've been ok with 3, so far. This deck is tricky in the mull decisions since you sometimes have to keep 2 Bogles on the draw to fight a Thoughtseize, or you have to aggressively mull into a Leyline post board. Still, it is amazing how often a 5 or 6 card hand gets there if its the right combination.
Anyways, there is a sea of Eldrazi online now, and aggro decks looking to beat it, so Bogle it up while the getting is good.
Link to Discord server where anybody from MTGS can keep up with thread topics while everything is being sorted out with the new site.
Not in my opinion. I don't see how this card would be playable unless Bogles became WAAAY more popular. I can't think of any other decks that rely on either hexproof or indestructible as their win condition. It's more efficient for opposing decks to play something like spellskite or fracturing gust that hurts other decks as well as Bogles.
Not that I can see. Casting 10 mana eldrazi on turn 4 certainly isn't Bogles specialty, haha. There have been a few cheap enchantments so I'm still holding out hope. The thing I don't want to see is some killer enchantment that requires colorless mana. That would be frustrating.
Or are you interested in a Fiora flavor cube? Conspire and win!
Level 2 Judge
Also, it doesn't hit Splinter Twin
Commander: WUBRG Superfriends, GW Rhys Tokens, WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon
Kitchen Table (now that's real Magic): WUBRG Domain, GU Biovisionary, UB Korlash Grandeur, UW Merfolk Mill
4 Razorverge Thicket
4 Horizon Canopy
4 Windswept Heath
3 Wooded Foothills
2 Temple Garden
1 Plains
1 Forest
1 Dryad Arbor
Creatures:
4 Gladecover Scout
4 Slippery Bogle
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
2 Kor Spiritdancer
4 Ethereal Armor
4 Rancor
4 Hyena Umbra
3 Spider Umbra
3 Keen Sense
4 Daybreak Coronet
3 Unflinching Courage
Instant:
3 Vines of Vastwood
4 Leyline of Sanctity
2 Rest in Peace
2 Stony Silence
2 Nature's Claim
2 Path to Exile
1 Spellskite
2 Gaddock Teeg
Round 1: Slivers. The guy was filling out his decklist halfway through the first game and the judge was going to give him a game-loss for tardiness, but I said I didn't care and just wanted to play magic. Off we go. Somehow he takes game 1 with random slivers. I was stuck on one land (shouldn't have kept the hand). Game 2 I land a Daybreak Coronet and go to work. Game 3 he nature's claims my Daybreak Coronet and triple blocks my bogle, but a kicked Vines of Vastwood and Rancor put me over the top and I'm still able to deal lethal. 1-0 after an easy matchup for bogles.
Round 2: Living End. Unless we draw Rest in Peace or other sideboard graveyard hate, 9/10 games we're going to lose to living end. I don't see any Rest in Peace and he cascades into Living End T3 both games. Quick loss for me and I'm 1-1 overall.
Round 3: Mirror Match! Game 1 I keep a hand with no creatures but a Vines of Vastwood so I keep it. T1 Windswept and pass, he plays bogle T1 and I fetch into Arbor and put on an umbra and swing. I get a Daybreak Coronet, he gets an unflinching courage, so both of us are gaining life pretty steadily. He draws and says "Finally...Path your Arbor." I cast Vines in response and his jaw drops. I draw into a Kor Spiritdancer and two turns later I do lethal. Game 2 he simply outraces me and I lose. Game 3 was similar to game 1 where we both have huge creatures, but another kicked Vines pushes me over the top of his bogle. I take it in 3 games to move to 2-1.
Round 4: UW control. Easy 2-0 after he calls a judge and tries arguing that his supreme verdict kills all my umbras and not just one. He was a real class act and I'm glad he elected to drop the event after I crushed him.
Round 5: RW land destruction. So I've never played against this deck before (I don't play online). He does nothing T1, I turn 1 bogle. T2 he plays Flagstones of Trokair and Boom from Boom // Bust and now I have 0 lands to his two. I play another land and manage to play an umbra (I really wish I had a keen sense). He plays stone rain and kills my other land, so now he's at 3 lands and I'm at 0. I plan another land but only manage to play a creature. He plays another stone rain. After another few turns he's at 1 life, then TOP DECKS Magus of the Tabernacle and I don't have any land to use to save my creatures. I lose game 1 on his top deck. Game 2 I'm on the play and get a quick Bogle + Ethereal Armor + Rancor and win easily, even after he kills 3 of my lands. Game 3 he gets the same Flagstone/Boom combo, but I manage to get a 3/3 bogle with keen sense and I'm feeling pretty good about the Keen Sense draw. T3 he casts Ensnaring Bridge and T4 Bottled Cloister. I lose game 3 because I simply can't attack and he blows up all my lands. Most frusrating matchup ever. I come in 10th and miss the top 8 playoff.
Overall impressions. Vines of Vastwood worked out ridiculously good and i highly suggest trying it over Path to Exile. It helped me prevent opponents from buffing their guys (can also prevent twin from resolving, without giving them a land), and it saved my Dryad Arbor and Spiritdancers on multiple occassions. There was never a time I wish I had a Path instead of Vines. I also liked having Burrenton Forge-Tender even though I didn't see burn or zoo, which I was heavily expecting in the local meta. It increased my odds of landing the ever-important T1 creature and immediately follow up with aura's, and the synergy with Vines worked really well to ensure I could protect any non-red removal.
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=96345
Also, is Horizon Canopy purely for the extra draw? Will the deck take a dive if I don't have it and is there an alternative to it? In RG Tron, it is still fully functional even without Groves and can be replaced by Karplusan Forest in budget versions, although the life loss can sometime lose you the game against aggro decks.
In other words, Horizon Canopy can be easily swaped by any land that produces G/W mana the turn it comes into play. Sure sometimes you'll lose the game, look at the top card of your deck and say "Man.. if I had just one more turn to draw this card I'd have won", but if it means saving $220+ for swaping the Horizon Canopies for Brushlands I'd say "Totally worth it".
If you want to play the deck make Horizon Canopy the last of your priorities. It will be slightly worse, but it is not as bad as not having the Daybreak Coronets or not having Fetchlands + Dryad Arbor in a meta filled with Lillianas (what is usually the case of most metas)
Commander: WUBRG Superfriends, GW Rhys Tokens, WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon
Kitchen Table (now that's real Magic): WUBRG Domain, GU Biovisionary, UB Korlash Grandeur, UW Merfolk Mill
Standard - Mono-white Humans and U/R Mill
Legacy - Maverick
Link to Discord server where anybody from MTGS can keep up with thread topics while everything is being sorted out with the new site.
4 mana is simply too much for something to be playable in this deck, especially in a format when hexproof + worship isn't anywhere near a hard lock. Affinity and infect deals infect damage, Junk has Siege Rhino, Amulet Bloom has Hivemind and GR Tron has Oblivion Stone/Karn/Ugin. Even decks that cannot easily deal with it like Jund/Twin can easily take care of it with discard and counterspells. After sideboard it gets worse as almost everyone is bringing in some sort of enchantment removal or more discard/edict effects. Against most matchups Worship is pretty much a mulligan. The matchups where it's good tend to be semi-aggressive creature decks like Zoo and Merfolk, but those decks are already great matchups since if you cannot deal with a Worship you probably can't deal with a Daybreak Coronet either.
Regarding Pulse of Murasa, it seems fairly terrible too. If it's some sort of anti-aggro card you should just be running something like Timely Reinforcement instead. If it's some sort of value recurring thing you could run Eternal Witness instead (or preferably don't). If it's some sort of hedge to be decent against both control and aggro, it's still terrible against combo and it doesn't fit in the deck in the first place. You would be better off just upping the number of auras like Unflinching Courage or Spirit Mantle.
I also am thinking of running 4 Oath of Nissa in this. It seems like a good fit for finding another creature or land since I'm not running the canopies.
GWU Eldrazi
BRG Living End
WBG JunkFit
The Horizon Canopy is in fact a card, that lets you cycle faster through your deck, because Bogles is really bad at topdecking. It makes your deck better, but isn't necessary.
Or are you interested in a Fiora flavor cube? Conspire and win!
Level 2 Judge
Link to Discord server where anybody from MTGS can keep up with thread topics while everything is being sorted out with the new site.
BGRDredgevineBGR
UWRJeskai ControlUWR
Pauper:
GMono-Green AggroG
MTGO Username: creamy99
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Check it out for the latest testing, gameplay, and dailies!
For some weird reason, I have a bad history with Tron and I don't know why people saying it is a good MU especially they land that freaking Ugin and is game over for us. @_@
I would increase the number of Spirit Mantle now I think. So far in my testing, I find it an ok MU as long as they don't have that much discard in their hand, were good. and post board we have leyline and gaddock.
But speaking of Splinter Twin's ban: what do you think about Suppression Field maindeck? I guess Twin was the number one reason to play it, but it also slows down Tron (Tutors and Planeswalkers), Affinity, anything playing Lilliana...
Commander: WUBRG Superfriends, GW Rhys Tokens, WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon
Kitchen Table (now that's real Magic): WUBRG Domain, GU Biovisionary, UB Korlash Grandeur, UW Merfolk Mill