While I love Phyrexian Crusader and Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon in a vacuum its always been clunky to mix damage and poison when I have done so in other decks. I found myself in the same situation as yours above where you've hit the opp a bunch of times and if it was damage or poison you would have won, but the mix of both really gets in the way.
If I go with the Hand of the Praetors I'm thinking it'd help to try out Glistener Elf as well since Hand would make each Elf become "G: target player gets a poison counter". I'm definitely going to maxing out on Pridemage and see if I can get Hierarch. Birds are there until I can get Hierarchs in the future.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Collecting Timbermare, hit me up if you have any for trade
Round 1: Uw Merfolk (2-0)
Game 1: We attack each other back and forth. Eventually, he is left at 1 life and I am at 7. He swings for lethal, but forgets my Noble Hierarch in the graveyard. I gain 1 life with Scavenging Ooze and we go to Game 2.
Game 2: He builds an impressive board with Master of Waves and paths my few creatures. I Wrath his board and build back pretty fast. Beat down with some Smiters for game.
Sideboarding: +1 Wrath of God, +2 Engineered Explosives, +1 Thrun, the Last Troll, -4 Leonin Arbiter
Round 2: Wilt-Leaf Abzan (2-0)
Game 1: We both build up huge boards, but mine is bigger with Gavony and Liege. I take game 1.
Game 2: With some early mana denial and playing more mana dorks than him, I am able to build a faster board. EE takes care of 4 spirits which lets me finally attack. I win the game at 1 life after a Siege Rhino helixes me. Scavenging Ooze saves the day again.
Sideboarding: +2 Mirran Crusader, +1 Thrun, the Last Troll, +1 Wrath of God, +2 Engineered Explosves, -2 Aven Mindcensor, -1 Qasali Pridemage, -3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
Game 3: RUG Twin (2-1)
Game 1: Opponent is stuck on 2 lands and is not able to draw another one. I take advantage of it by building up a huge board and ending the game fairly quickly.
Game 2: He plays multiple goyfs and is able to attack and burn me out. I draw all of my mana dorks and am unable to keep a threat on the field.
Game 3: This was the best game I played all day. It was very close. I ended the game at 3 life and was able to stop drawing lands before he did.
Sideboarding: +2 Choke, +1 Thrun, the Last Troll, -1 Wilt-Leaf Liege, -2 Aven Mindcensor
Round 4: Standings put me at 1st. I intentionally draw.
Round 5: Standings put me in 2nd. I intentionally draw into Top 8.
Top 8: Grixis Delver (1-2)
Game 1: I'm on the draw as he was higher seed. I mulligan to 5 and have to keep a hand with 3 lands and 2 smiters. He plays multiple delvers and I don't draw anything relevant.
Game 2: I am able to path the big zombies and gain lots of life with finks and gavony lets me profitably block any fliers with my birds.
Game 3: I keep a 1-land hand with 2 mana dorks and 3 2-drops and a Choke. I don't draw a land for 3 turns and my dorks get Electrolyzed. Too bad, since I feel like this should be a favorable matchup. Maybe I shouldn't have kept this hand, but I just needed any land in the first 3 turns to have a chance.
Sideboarding: +1 Thrun, the Last Troll, +2 Choke, +2 Engineered Explosives, -3 Wilt-Leaf Liege, -2 Qasali Pridemage
Overall, pretty happy that I got top 8 at the PPTQ. One thing I am thinking of changing is adding one Dromoka's Commmand to the main. The top 8 was pretty diverse, consisted of: Hatebears, Collected Zoo, Affinity, Jund, RUG Twin, Bloom Titan, Merfolk, and Grixis Delver.
Not a novel idea but my attempt on a Glittering Wish deck. Hatebears seemed the appropriate place. Not sure if I should stick with GW or try to dip into other colours for more wish targets. Obviously there is some strong tension between Leonin Arbiter and running more than 2 (allied) colours, no fetchlands for easly fixing. Hopefully by only adding Blue the Vivids/Reflecting Pool/Mana Confluence, Aether Vial and Noble Hierarch will be enough. Wishes will almost always get guys, usually on 2, so Vial seemed appropriate in overcoming Glittering Wish's inherent slowness.
Why bother? For fun and also so the right hate shows up at the right time.
3 Thalia's seemed important to include in the SB against a number of matches where Wishes would come out and Wished-For-Targets go in.
Think Aether Vial is worth it here? Did I miss any needed Wish targets? Too many targets?
Game 1 vs R/U Twin: Opening hand has enough land to get me at least a 3 drop creature and I have a path to exile in hand. Keep! I resolve an early loxodon smiter who just starts getting beats in early, followed by a Thalia. My opponent only played a single exarch, which was pathed quickly. At one point my opponent taps out and I throw down baneslayer angel. For the most part my opponent drew a lot of land and nothing that could kill the smiter, let alone the angel, but opponent conceded once the angel resolved.
Game 2: 2 paths, a spellskite & a pridemage in the opening hand. Definitely a keeper! I am able to get a T2 spellskite in play. T3 he plays a pestermite, which I fight with dromoka's command & my spellskite. Fear my 1/5 now! He follows up with a skite of his own which I destroy with the pridemage. He plays another spellskite which I try to path, but gets dispelled, so I play a smiter. He plays an exarch, taps my smiter. I try to path again but this too is dispelled. I draw a 3rd path, he tries to flash in a snapcaster for dispel, but I respond with hushwing griff. I subsequently resolve a scavenging ooze and between ooze and smiter I am able to beat him down. The 1/5 spellskite just hangs in the back in case any funny business shows up.
It turns out my opponent never drew a splinter twin in either game, but I was always nervous of the possibility. That said, I had pretty fantastic opening hands vs combo, and I trust my beatdown plan more than his.
Match 2: vs delver tempo.
Game 1 starts with a lava spike to my head, "sending a message". I am able to get a T3 smiter into T4 wilt-leaf and just come screaming in for damage. I never saw any creatures that match and thought he was some sort of burn deck with counterspells. I sideboard out all of my paths and the pridemages, bring in choke x2, forge-tender x2, spellskite, thrun.
Game 2: He plays a t1 delver. Whoops. I follow up with a bird of paradise that gets fork bolted, and he follows up with flipping the delver and hitting me in the face with more spells. I resolve loxodon twice, both times they get vapor snagged. I only really get him down to about 11 before I die. I sideboard back in the paths, take out the thrun, and remove an arbiter or two.
Game 3: Turn 2 voice into turn 3 smiter. He kills the voice fairly early, nevertheless I keep playing creatures (smiter when he has mana up, other creatures when he's tapped out). We both get down to 7 life and I've got a 3/3 elemental token and a 4/4 smiter (as well as a hierarch). He's got 3 cards in hand and plays a delver. I path the delver and swing for lethal.
Vapor snag did a ton of work in that matchup. I was surprised at just how much time it bought him and seemed to be worth "diluting" the red burn plan.
Match 3: G/B Elves. This player was sitting next to me during the first match and I watched him just steamroll grixis twin.
Game 1 I am on the draw. I've got a few creatures in my starting hand and no removal, figure that should be fine. I play T2 Thalia and he swings in with 2 elves not realizing that I have first strike. Down goes 1 elf. T3 I drop a leonin arbiter. It turns out most of his hand was library search effects. I am then able to drop a smiter and just start beating down. Nothing very fancy happens but he does not get his archdruids or overruns active. I sideboard in the explosives, the crusaders and a dismember. I sideboard out the spellskite, hushwing gryff x2 and the pridemages.
Game 2: My hand is okay, nothing special. I do not have removal in the opening hand but figure that's fine. T1 elf into T2 elvish visionary into T3 3 elves into T4 collected company, which hits both an archdruid and his overrun guy. T5 dead. Yeah, that was unfortunate.
Game 3: My opening hand has an engineered explosives and a mirran crusader. Umm, keep. T2 he plays a dark confidant, which was unexpected. I play an arbiter on T2 and explosives on 3, killing 3 1 drop elves. Crusader comes down T4 and just starts smacking for 4 unblockable every turn. He reloads the board with the help of the confidant, an archdruid (which was drawn with the confidant, thank you for the 3 damage) and some visionaries, but I draw into the 2nd explosives and kill another 3 elves, followed up by Brimaz. At this point I have a voice, arbiter, crusader & Brimaz swinging in, which requires chumping with his confidant and a visionary. Down to 1 hp left, a visionary & an archdruid, with 4 more unblockable coming in the next turn, my opponent concedes.
So game 1 was hatebears doing what it does vs search decks, game 2 was the nut draw on the elf side followed by my getting 3 of my sideboard cards essentially in my opening hand. Engineered explosives just decimates elves, either set to 1 or to 2. The 2nd explosives wasn't exactly necessary, but without the 1st I could very well have lost that game, even with a 2/2 doublestriking invulnerable guy, which is scary to think about.
I also played 2 exhibition games before and after the tournament. The first was against R/G tron which was defined by arbiter/ghost quarter. My opponent literally did not resolve the effect of any card before he died, and the 2nd was against KikiChord, where I drew nothing but arbiters and path to exiles (feel free to chord, just please pay 6 mana first). In conclusion, arbiter is awesome and I am quite surprised so few people play the deck.
So it turns out that the store I play at is giving anybody who goes undefeated at FNM this week or next a From The Vault: Angels. I haven't been able to get Noble Hierarch, but I've been working on a new list without any Infect cards like my last deck used in case I decide to go that route. These are my options for FNM this week.
Thoughts:
*Curving Judge's Familiar into Thalia, and Vryn Wingmare is powerful to say the least.
*I found Mana Tithe, along side Thalia, Arbiter, Wingmare, Tec Edge, Ghost Quarter, and Judge's Familiar to be much stronger than I expected.
*Kytheon as an indestructible 4/4, sometimes receiving exalted bonuses, is a house. He hasn't been difficult to flip. He's also a very good fight target for Dromoka's Command. He is also a strong curve into Thalia and the rest of your taxes.
*I haven't had any difficulty sequencing Thorn of Amethyst, before Thalia when applicable, or before Vryn Wingmare, it stacks well with both, while differtiating your tax threats from removal.
*Typically once an opponent sees Mana Tithe, they try to play around it for the rest of the match. With so many taxes, playing around it can become difficult to impossible. In this list, Mana Tithe is often, simply a hard counter.
*Against tough creature oriented match ups like Elves and Fish, I can pull Vryn Wingmare, Thorn of Amethyst, copies of Mana Tithe etc, to bring in Kitchen Finks and Wrath of God or Dromoka's Command. On that note I have countered Collected Company with Mana Tithe several times.
*I bring Kitchen Finks in against Burn. I also bring Finks in against Jund, which is a difficult match up for me.
*I have good match ups against combo and control, anything spell based really, as well as Twin, Tron, Storm, Mill etc..
Any feedback, or constructive critisicm would be appreciated.
The deck played amazingly well, I got the Hatebear Dream (Heirarch into Arbiter + Ghost Quarter) so many times here. Went 3-2 in the Prelims and made top 8 because of my good matchups. Top 8 was absolutely brutal but fun as hell.
Prelims:
Round 1: Mardu Burn 2-1
Prretty much what I expected. Game one my mainboard Kitchen Finks kept me going and alive, but in round 2 I kept a bad hand and got clobbered by triple Goblin Guides. Round three had me land a Chalice on 1, nuke his only non fetch when I had an Arbiter down, and slamming a Thalia down sealed his doom.
Round 2: Goryo's Vengance Brew (2-1)
This was an odd brew of the usual vengance deck, splashing green for a few other things like Boroborygmos, as well as using Packrat and Necrotic Ooze. Game one I managed to kill him before he got out of hand, landing a perfect curve of Heirarch into Finks into Leige for the win. Game 2 I made the mistake of not Pathing his Pack Rat the moment it came down and it just got out of hand. Game three saw Rest In Peace and Smiter take it away.
Round 3: Lantern Control 0-2
Absolutely hated this matchup. Kept bad hands and had to mull twice on the first game before I got a decent hand and he got the lock on me early. Game 2 I kept a no land hand but with Heirarch and Stoney Silence, hoping to draw into a land. I didn't and I got destroyed.
Round 4: Merfolk 0-2
I just simply couldn't keep up. Game one he overwhelmed me and game two I was on three lands before he smacked my board with Hibernation and pummeled me to death. Didn't see a single hate card.
Round 5: Grixis Twin 2-0
This one was like the Lantern Control match, only I was doing the lock out. First game saw Arbiter + Ghost Quarter into Mindcensor when he had two fetches in play. Game three he mulliganed down to four and I had a perfect curve in my hand. To say that round ended in under five minutes was an understatement.
Top 8
Round 1: Temur Moons 2-0
This guy had taken the #1 spot in the top 8, so I was kinda shaking in my boots that I would have my ass kicked from here till sunday. Instead, I drew amazingly, nuking a Stomping Grounds early on and he drew nothing but Islands. Round 2 he managed to land a pair of goyfs early on but Arbiter + Path helped me keep them back till I drew into Collected Company and landed a Smiter and Finks.
Round 2: Same as Prelims Round 2.
Same exact thing, pretty much, except I beat him out with Collected Company so hard in the final matchup even a back to back Gristlebrand couldn't save him.
Round 3 would have been against R/G Tron, but the player offered a split of the prizes and let me keep the buys at GP Indianapolis and the invite to the Invitational.
My overall thoughts on this deck have REALLY solidified after playing it in a proper competitive environment. Collected Company was absolutely disgusting in all the matches I used it in, often putting me way ahead of my opponent even if I casted it on my own turn, and Dromoka's Command saved my bacon once or twice. Taking my finks up from 2 to 3 was the best idea I had, and kept me in the game more times than I cared to admit.
Man have I had some bad beats VS GR Tron lately. The match-up feels so good on paper, but when they have natural turn 3 tron it's hard to stop them. mindcensor, stony silence, ghost quarters and tec edges are what I have been mainly using. Am I missing anything?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Modern: WUBRGHumansWUBRG
EDH: WBGKarador, Ghost ChieftainWBG UGEdric, Spymaster of TrestUG
Occasionally having 7 colorless sources has hampered me considerably , but more often than not, I adore having the land destruction package and having Gavony Township to break deadlocks. Plus, Hierarchs can easily make up for it.
I simply lack E Witnesses and I feel adding her would dilute my hate plan. I run alot of two ofs to give me some flexibility when dealing with troublesome decks prior to sideboarding.
Leige won me games. Every time I landed him, if he wasn't removed, I quickly ran my opponent over. Sure, he's a No-bo with Co-Co, but as a two of,he makes for a great finisher. Don't let that prohibitive cost stop you from using him, it is a GREAT card.
Co-Co was an equally good game winner, either putting me ahead or bringing me up from behind.
I got most of the deck from Liefe's Reddit post. I'm working on finding Choke to replace the Torpor Orbs, and Flagstones of Trokair to replace the Stirring Wildwood.
I got most of the deck from Liefe's Reddit post. I'm working on finding Choke to replace the Torpor Orbs, and Flagstones of Trokair to replace the Stirring Wildwood.
I got most of the deck from Liefe's Reddit post. I'm working on finding Choke to replace the Torpor Orbs, and Flagstones of Trokair to replace the Stirring Wildwood.
Just curious, Why flagstones over stirring?
I'm not a big fan of lands that come in tapped, I also like the fact that I can ghost quarter Flagstones to fix mana problems, or in response to Blood Moon
I got most of the deck from Liefe's Reddit post. I'm working on finding Choke to replace the Torpor Orbs, and Flagstones of Trokair to replace the Stirring Wildwood.
Just curious, Why flagstones over stirring?
I'm not a big fan of lands that come in tapped, I also like the fact that I can ghost quarter Flagstones to fix mana problems, or in response to Blood Moon
While I can understand the dislike of lands coming in tapped, I'd say that you're going to miss out a lot on not having any manlands. The build is somewhat weak to fliers, and I can't count the number of times people attack in to a Stirring Wildwood only to lose their flier because no one remembers that it has reach. Its a solid 3/4 body with a low activation cost compared to other worldwake manlands and makes a nice beater, too. Manlands win games.
Blood Moon: you have basics and six dorks, plus your curve is most 2-3 cmc spells. You additionally have qasali pridemages main deck that can easily blow them up. I don't think Blood Moon has ever really done all that much against me when people play it, honestly.
I'll assume you're already aware of the awkwardness any search effect has when you build your deck with four Leonin Arbiter.
For reference / comparison, this is my typical manabase:
Hi everyone. Ive started playing Hatebear since a couple of weeks but ive always been a fan of this deck. I spent some time trying to improve my decklist as much as possible and now I think its pretty close from being optimal. Let me know what you think about it.
I like the mindcensor as the fifth search disruption effect. Brimaz is very powerful in general, however it doesnt particulary contribute to the deck really. Wilt-Leaf Liege is good indeed but i would not play more then 2. I would see him suite just better in pure aggro decks with tokens.
For the sideboard I think Sunlance should have it spot there; it help dealing with aggressive deck, can also get rid of dark confident. Gaddock Teeg I can see this card good to deal with many cards like Ad nauseam, supreme verdict, cryptic command, Planeswalkers, Scapeshift, etc. I see many sideboard without the 1x celestial purge and im wondering why because its just one of those card that can deal with a huge amount of permanent. Also one last thing about the sideboard, Grixis deck is now really present in the meta and i found it very hard to beat them without stoping them from interacting with their graveyard, thus why I think 2x Rest in Peace is needed.
Many of you guys only play 2 Qasali but I personaly found it to be one of the best card in Hatebear; a good beater with exalted that can deal with problematic cards like Splinter twin. I dont like the 2 Kitchen finks in the deck but I think its just a safe choice in a meta full of burn deck. CoCo have been super effective for me almost all the time. Like some have mentioned already, one of the reason why CoCo is so useful in this deck is that it can bring you back into games that you are far behind. About the Dromoka's Command, I havent tested it enough to tell but so far it feel just alright, havent done any 2 for 1 yet and I wouldn't play any more then one into the maindeck.
For the lands, I personally never had much issues with the 7 colorless lands. Gavony township is just too good to not include it. Last thing id like to say is that Im pretty sure lands that comes into play tapped are too risky for Hatebear. I play only 1 Stirring Wildwood and I find it already risky. The thing is, the first three turns are crucial for Hatebear game plan. If anything have to be delayed for a turn because of a land that comes into play tapped, it can have repercussions that impact the game more then having a manland that can be activated in a long game.
If you were going to try this route again, maybe keep those two and add in Phyrexian Vatmother, Hand of the Praetors for some beef and remove some amount of Wilt-Leaf Liege, Loxodon Smiter, Voice of Resurgence. You could add in more creatures with exalted ( Noble Hierarch and more Qasali Pridemage ) to pump these infect creatures and leave in or add more creatures whose utility is not limited to turning sideways like the Smiter and Wilt-Leaf (mostly) are.
In this way your kill is coming from exalted, hard to kill infect creatures and your disruption is coming from the Hatebear package.
This is my list.
Creatures:
2 Aven Mindcensor
2 Hushwing Gryff
4 Leonin Arbiter
4 Loxodon Smiter
4 Noble Hierarch
2 Qasali Pridemage
3 Scavenging Ooze
1 Spellskite
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Vryn Wingmare
2 Wilt-Leaf Liege
Spells:
4 AEther Vial
1 Dromoka's Command
4 Path to Exile
Lands:
2 Forest
2 Gavony Township
4 Ghost Quarter
2 Horizon Canopy
2 Plains
4 Razorverge Thicket
1 Stirring Wildwood
1 Tectonic Edge
4 Temple Garden
SB:
2 Celestial Flare
2 Choke
2 Kataki, War's Wage
2 Kor Firewalker
1 Mark of Asylum
2 Mirran Crusader
2 Engineered Explosives
2 Stony Silence
Choke, hushwing gryff, engineered explosives
3 Horizon Canopy
2 Forest
2 Gavony Township
4 Ghost Quarter
2 Plains
4 Razorverge Thicket
2 Stirring Wildwood
4 Temple Garden
Creatures (33)
2 Aven Mindcensor
2 Birds of Paradise
3 Kitchen Finks
4 Leonin Arbiter
4 Loxodon Smiter
4 Noble Hierarch
2 Qasali Pridemage
2 Scavenging Ooze
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Voice of Resurgence
3 Wilt-Leaf Liege
4 Path to Exile
2 Choke
2 Engineered Explosives
1 Fracturing Gust
3 Kor Firewalker
2 Mirran Crusader
3 Stony Silence
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Wrath of God
Round 1: Uw Merfolk (2-0)
Game 1: We attack each other back and forth. Eventually, he is left at 1 life and I am at 7. He swings for lethal, but forgets my Noble Hierarch in the graveyard. I gain 1 life with Scavenging Ooze and we go to Game 2.
Game 2: He builds an impressive board with Master of Waves and paths my few creatures. I Wrath his board and build back pretty fast. Beat down with some Smiters for game.
Sideboarding: +1 Wrath of God, +2 Engineered Explosives, +1 Thrun, the Last Troll, -4 Leonin Arbiter
Round 2: Wilt-Leaf Abzan (2-0)
Game 1: We both build up huge boards, but mine is bigger with Gavony and Liege. I take game 1.
Game 2: With some early mana denial and playing more mana dorks than him, I am able to build a faster board. EE takes care of 4 spirits which lets me finally attack. I win the game at 1 life after a Siege Rhino helixes me. Scavenging Ooze saves the day again.
Sideboarding: +2 Mirran Crusader, +1 Thrun, the Last Troll, +1 Wrath of God, +2 Engineered Explosves, -2 Aven Mindcensor, -1 Qasali Pridemage, -3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
Game 3: RUG Twin (2-1)
Game 1: Opponent is stuck on 2 lands and is not able to draw another one. I take advantage of it by building up a huge board and ending the game fairly quickly.
Game 2: He plays multiple goyfs and is able to attack and burn me out. I draw all of my mana dorks and am unable to keep a threat on the field.
Game 3: This was the best game I played all day. It was very close. I ended the game at 3 life and was able to stop drawing lands before he did.
Sideboarding: +2 Choke, +1 Thrun, the Last Troll, -1 Wilt-Leaf Liege, -2 Aven Mindcensor
Round 4: Standings put me at 1st. I intentionally draw.
Round 5: Standings put me in 2nd. I intentionally draw into Top 8.
Top 8: Grixis Delver (1-2)
Game 1: I'm on the draw as he was higher seed. I mulligan to 5 and have to keep a hand with 3 lands and 2 smiters. He plays multiple delvers and I don't draw anything relevant.
Game 2: I am able to path the big zombies and gain lots of life with finks and gavony lets me profitably block any fliers with my birds.
Game 3: I keep a 1-land hand with 2 mana dorks and 3 2-drops and a Choke. I don't draw a land for 3 turns and my dorks get Electrolyzed. Too bad, since I feel like this should be a favorable matchup. Maybe I shouldn't have kept this hand, but I just needed any land in the first 3 turns to have a chance.
Sideboarding: +1 Thrun, the Last Troll, +2 Choke, +2 Engineered Explosives, -3 Wilt-Leaf Liege, -2 Qasali Pridemage
Overall, pretty happy that I got top 8 at the PPTQ. One thing I am thinking of changing is adding one Dromoka's Commmand to the main. The top 8 was pretty diverse, consisted of: Hatebears, Collected Zoo, Affinity, Jund, RUG Twin, Bloom Titan, Merfolk, and Grixis Delver.
Naya Burn
Grixis Twin
4 Noble Hierarch
3 Voice of Resurgence
3 Scavenging Ooze
1 Spellskite
4 Leonin Arbiter
3 Qasali Pridemage
4 Loxodon Smiter
2 Linvala, Keeper of Silence
4 Path to Exile
2 Dromoka, the Eternal
4 Ghost Quarter
1 Gavony Township
2 Horizon Canopy
4 Razorverge Thicket
3 Temple Garden
1 Plains
2 Forest
1 Vivid Grove
1 Vivid Meadow
2 Reflecting Pool
1 Mana Confluence
1 Dryad Militant
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Meddling Mage
1 Rhox War Monk
1 Wilt-Leaf Liege
1 Fracturing Gust
1 Wheel of Sun and Moon
1 Glare of Subdual
1 Unflinching Courage
1 Supreme Verdict
1 Detention Sphere
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
Not a novel idea but my attempt on a Glittering Wish deck. Hatebears seemed the appropriate place. Not sure if I should stick with GW or try to dip into other colours for more wish targets. Obviously there is some strong tension between Leonin Arbiter and running more than 2 (allied) colours, no fetchlands for easly fixing. Hopefully by only adding Blue the Vivids/Reflecting Pool/Mana Confluence, Aether Vial and Noble Hierarch will be enough. Wishes will almost always get guys, usually on 2, so Vial seemed appropriate in overcoming Glittering Wish's inherent slowness.
Why bother? For fun and also so the right hate shows up at the right time.
3 Thalia's seemed important to include in the SB against a number of matches where Wishes would come out and Wished-For-Targets go in.
Think Aether Vial is worth it here? Did I miss any needed Wish targets? Too many targets?
1 Birds of paradise
4 noble hierarch
1 Spellskite
2 voice of resurgence
2 Qasali Pridemage
2 scavenging ooze
3 Thalia
4 leonin arbiter
4 loxodon smiter
2 kitchen finks
2 hushwing Gryff
1 Brimaz, King of Oreskos
2 wilt-leaf liege
1 Linvala, Keeper of Silence
1 Baneslayer Angel
4 Path to exile
1 Dromoka's command
--Lands-- (23)
4 Horizon canopy
4 Razorverge thicket
4 ghost quarter
4 temple garden
2 stirring wildwood
2 Forest
1 plains
1 Tectonic edge
1 Gavony Township
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
1 celestial Purge
2 Engineered Explosives
2 Stony silence
1 Spellskite
2 Choke
1 Dismember
2 Mirran Crusader
1 Thrun, The Last Troll
1 Creeping Corrosion
Game 1 vs R/U Twin: Opening hand has enough land to get me at least a 3 drop creature and I have a path to exile in hand. Keep! I resolve an early loxodon smiter who just starts getting beats in early, followed by a Thalia. My opponent only played a single exarch, which was pathed quickly. At one point my opponent taps out and I throw down baneslayer angel. For the most part my opponent drew a lot of land and nothing that could kill the smiter, let alone the angel, but opponent conceded once the angel resolved.
Sideboard: in - dismember, choke x2, spellskite, thrun. Out: baneslayer, finks x2, arbiter x2
Game 2: 2 paths, a spellskite & a pridemage in the opening hand. Definitely a keeper! I am able to get a T2 spellskite in play. T3 he plays a pestermite, which I fight with dromoka's command & my spellskite. Fear my 1/5 now! He follows up with a skite of his own which I destroy with the pridemage. He plays another spellskite which I try to path, but gets dispelled, so I play a smiter. He plays an exarch, taps my smiter. I try to path again but this too is dispelled. I draw a 3rd path, he tries to flash in a snapcaster for dispel, but I respond with hushwing griff. I subsequently resolve a scavenging ooze and between ooze and smiter I am able to beat him down. The 1/5 spellskite just hangs in the back in case any funny business shows up.
It turns out my opponent never drew a splinter twin in either game, but I was always nervous of the possibility. That said, I had pretty fantastic opening hands vs combo, and I trust my beatdown plan more than his.
Match 2: vs delver tempo.
Game 1 starts with a lava spike to my head, "sending a message". I am able to get a T3 smiter into T4 wilt-leaf and just come screaming in for damage. I never saw any creatures that match and thought he was some sort of burn deck with counterspells. I sideboard out all of my paths and the pridemages, bring in choke x2, forge-tender x2, spellskite, thrun.
Game 2: He plays a t1 delver. Whoops. I follow up with a bird of paradise that gets fork bolted, and he follows up with flipping the delver and hitting me in the face with more spells. I resolve loxodon twice, both times they get vapor snagged. I only really get him down to about 11 before I die. I sideboard back in the paths, take out the thrun, and remove an arbiter or two.
Game 3: Turn 2 voice into turn 3 smiter. He kills the voice fairly early, nevertheless I keep playing creatures (smiter when he has mana up, other creatures when he's tapped out). We both get down to 7 life and I've got a 3/3 elemental token and a 4/4 smiter (as well as a hierarch). He's got 3 cards in hand and plays a delver. I path the delver and swing for lethal.
Vapor snag did a ton of work in that matchup. I was surprised at just how much time it bought him and seemed to be worth "diluting" the red burn plan.
Match 3: G/B Elves. This player was sitting next to me during the first match and I watched him just steamroll grixis twin.
Game 1 I am on the draw. I've got a few creatures in my starting hand and no removal, figure that should be fine. I play T2 Thalia and he swings in with 2 elves not realizing that I have first strike. Down goes 1 elf. T3 I drop a leonin arbiter. It turns out most of his hand was library search effects. I am then able to drop a smiter and just start beating down. Nothing very fancy happens but he does not get his archdruids or overruns active. I sideboard in the explosives, the crusaders and a dismember. I sideboard out the spellskite, hushwing gryff x2 and the pridemages.
Game 2: My hand is okay, nothing special. I do not have removal in the opening hand but figure that's fine. T1 elf into T2 elvish visionary into T3 3 elves into T4 collected company, which hits both an archdruid and his overrun guy. T5 dead. Yeah, that was unfortunate.
Game 3: My opening hand has an engineered explosives and a mirran crusader. Umm, keep. T2 he plays a dark confidant, which was unexpected. I play an arbiter on T2 and explosives on 3, killing 3 1 drop elves. Crusader comes down T4 and just starts smacking for 4 unblockable every turn. He reloads the board with the help of the confidant, an archdruid (which was drawn with the confidant, thank you for the 3 damage) and some visionaries, but I draw into the 2nd explosives and kill another 3 elves, followed up by Brimaz. At this point I have a voice, arbiter, crusader & Brimaz swinging in, which requires chumping with his confidant and a visionary. Down to 1 hp left, a visionary & an archdruid, with 4 more unblockable coming in the next turn, my opponent concedes.
So game 1 was hatebears doing what it does vs search decks, game 2 was the nut draw on the elf side followed by my getting 3 of my sideboard cards essentially in my opening hand. Engineered explosives just decimates elves, either set to 1 or to 2. The 2nd explosives wasn't exactly necessary, but without the 1st I could very well have lost that game, even with a 2/2 doublestriking invulnerable guy, which is scary to think about.
I also played 2 exhibition games before and after the tournament. The first was against R/G tron which was defined by arbiter/ghost quarter. My opponent literally did not resolve the effect of any card before he died, and the 2nd was against KikiChord, where I drew nothing but arbiters and path to exiles (feel free to chord, just please pay 6 mana first). In conclusion, arbiter is awesome and I am quite surprised so few people play the deck.
GW list
4 Ghost Quarter
3 Horizon Canopy
3 Forest
3 Plains
2 Temple Garden
1 Gavony Township
1 Tectonic Edge
1 Stirring Wildwood
4 Leonin Arbiter
4 Loxodon Smiter
3 Voice of Resurgence
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Wilt-Leaf Liege
2 Kitchen Finks
2 Qasali Pridemage
2 Scavenging Ooze
1 Dauntless Escort
1 Aven Mindcensor
1 Hushwing Gryff
1 Linvala, Keeper of Silence
3 Collected Company
GWB list
2 Godless Shrine
2 Overgrown Tomb
2 Horizon Canopy
1 Forest
2 Plains
2 Ghost Quarter
2 Inkmoth Nexus
1 Gavony Township
1 Stirring Wildwood
1 Temple Garden
1 Razorverge Thicket
2 Swamp
4 Tidehollow Sculler
4 Phyrexian Crusader
4 Qasali Pridemage
2 Voice of Resurgence
2 Scavenging Ooze
2 Mirran Crusader
2 Phyrexian Vatmother
1 Hand of the Praetors
1 Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon
1 Glistener Elf OR 1 Gaddock Teeg
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Liliana of the Veil
2 Collected Company
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Judge's Familiar
3 Kytheon, Hero of Akros
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Leonin Arbiter
4 Qasali Pridemage
2 Scavenging Ooze
4 Vryn Wingmare
Spells (9)
1 Thorn of Amethyst
4 Path to Exile
4 Mana Tithe
4 Windswept Heath
4 Temple Garden
2 Sunpetal Grove
2 Razorverge Thicket
2 Treetop Village
1 Plains
1 Forest
4 Ghost Quarter
2 Tectonic Edge
4 Kitchen Finks
3 Dromoka's Command
4 Wrath of God
1 Rest in Peace
2 Choke
1 Runed Halo
Thoughts:
*Curving Judge's Familiar into Thalia, and Vryn Wingmare is powerful to say the least.
*I found Mana Tithe, along side Thalia, Arbiter, Wingmare, Tec Edge, Ghost Quarter, and Judge's Familiar to be much stronger than I expected.
*Kytheon as an indestructible 4/4, sometimes receiving exalted bonuses, is a house. He hasn't been difficult to flip. He's also a very good fight target for Dromoka's Command. He is also a strong curve into Thalia and the rest of your taxes.
*I haven't had any difficulty sequencing Thorn of Amethyst, before Thalia when applicable, or before Vryn Wingmare, it stacks well with both, while differtiating your tax threats from removal.
*Typically once an opponent sees Mana Tithe, they try to play around it for the rest of the match. With so many taxes, playing around it can become difficult to impossible. In this list, Mana Tithe is often, simply a hard counter.
*Against tough creature oriented match ups like Elves and Fish, I can pull Vryn Wingmare, Thorn of Amethyst, copies of Mana Tithe etc, to bring in Kitchen Finks and Wrath of God or Dromoka's Command. On that note I have countered Collected Company with Mana Tithe several times.
*I bring Kitchen Finks in against Burn. I also bring Finks in against Jund, which is a difficult match up for me.
*I have good match ups against combo and control, anything spell based really, as well as Twin, Tron, Storm, Mill etc..
Any feedback, or constructive critisicm would be appreciated.
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Loxodon Smiter
2 Qasali Pridemage
2 Scavenging Ooze
4 Leonin Arbiter
2 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Voice of Resurgence
2 Wilt-Leaf Liege
2 Aven Mindcensor
3 Kitchen Finks
Non Creature Spells
3 Collected Company
2 Dromoka's Command
4 Path to Exile
4 Ghost Quarter
2 Stirring Wildwood
4 Temple Garden
4 Razorverge Thicket
2 Plains
2 Forest
2 Tectonic Edge
1 Gavony Township
2 Horizon Canopy
1 Brushland
1 Mirran Crusader
2 Hushwing Gryff
1 Rest in Peace
1 Chalice of the Void
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Stony Silence
2 Choke
1 Spellskite
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Dromoka's Command
1 Burrenton Forge-Tender
1 Kor Firewalker
1 Creeping Corrosion
The deck played amazingly well, I got the Hatebear Dream (Heirarch into Arbiter + Ghost Quarter) so many times here. Went 3-2 in the Prelims and made top 8 because of my good matchups. Top 8 was absolutely brutal but fun as hell.
Prelims:
Round 1: Mardu Burn 2-1
Prretty much what I expected. Game one my mainboard Kitchen Finks kept me going and alive, but in round 2 I kept a bad hand and got clobbered by triple Goblin Guides. Round three had me land a Chalice on 1, nuke his only non fetch when I had an Arbiter down, and slamming a Thalia down sealed his doom.
Round 2: Goryo's Vengance Brew (2-1)
This was an odd brew of the usual vengance deck, splashing green for a few other things like Boroborygmos, as well as using Packrat and Necrotic Ooze. Game one I managed to kill him before he got out of hand, landing a perfect curve of Heirarch into Finks into Leige for the win. Game 2 I made the mistake of not Pathing his Pack Rat the moment it came down and it just got out of hand. Game three saw Rest In Peace and Smiter take it away.
Round 3: Lantern Control 0-2
Absolutely hated this matchup. Kept bad hands and had to mull twice on the first game before I got a decent hand and he got the lock on me early. Game 2 I kept a no land hand but with Heirarch and Stoney Silence, hoping to draw into a land. I didn't and I got destroyed.
Round 4: Merfolk 0-2
I just simply couldn't keep up. Game one he overwhelmed me and game two I was on three lands before he smacked my board with Hibernation and pummeled me to death. Didn't see a single hate card.
Round 5: Grixis Twin 2-0
This one was like the Lantern Control match, only I was doing the lock out. First game saw Arbiter + Ghost Quarter into Mindcensor when he had two fetches in play. Game three he mulliganed down to four and I had a perfect curve in my hand. To say that round ended in under five minutes was an understatement.
Top 8
Round 1: Temur Moons 2-0
This guy had taken the #1 spot in the top 8, so I was kinda shaking in my boots that I would have my ass kicked from here till sunday. Instead, I drew amazingly, nuking a Stomping Grounds early on and he drew nothing but Islands. Round 2 he managed to land a pair of goyfs early on but Arbiter + Path helped me keep them back till I drew into Collected Company and landed a Smiter and Finks.
Round 2: Same as Prelims Round 2.
Same exact thing, pretty much, except I beat him out with Collected Company so hard in the final matchup even a back to back Gristlebrand couldn't save him.
Round 3 would have been against R/G Tron, but the player offered a split of the prizes and let me keep the buys at GP Indianapolis and the invite to the Invitational.
My overall thoughts on this deck have REALLY solidified after playing it in a proper competitive environment. Collected Company was absolutely disgusting in all the matches I used it in, often putting me way ahead of my opponent even if I casted it on my own turn, and Dromoka's Command saved my bacon once or twice. Taking my finks up from 2 to 3 was the best idea I had, and kept me in the game more times than I cared to admit.
RWGisela, Blade of Explosions
WUBRGHumansWUBRG
EDH:
WBGKarador, Ghost ChieftainWBG
UGEdric, Spymaster of TrestUG
Thalia sets them back a turn or so too.
I simply lack E Witnesses and I feel adding her would dilute my hate plan. I run alot of two ofs to give me some flexibility when dealing with troublesome decks prior to sideboarding.
Leige won me games. Every time I landed him, if he wasn't removed, I quickly ran my opponent over. Sure, he's a No-bo with Co-Co, but as a two of,he makes for a great finisher. Don't let that prohibitive cost stop you from using him, it is a GREAT card.
Co-Co was an equally good game winner, either putting me ahead or bringing me up from behind.
RWGisela, Blade of Explosions
2 Forest
2 Plains
4 Razorverge Thicket
4 Temple Garden
4 Ghost Quarter
3 Horizon Canopy
2 Gavony Township
1 Stirring Wildwood
2 Birds of Paradise
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Leonin Arbiter
3 Qasali Pridemage
3 Scavenging Ooze
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Aven Mindcensor
3 Kitchen Finks
3 Loxodon Smiter
1 Linvala, Keeper of Silence
3 Wilt-Leaf Liege
4 Path to Exile
3 Dromoka's Command
3 Rest in Peace
2 Spellskite
1 Chalice of the Void
2 Torpor Orb
3 Stony Silence
1 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
I got most of the deck from Liefe's Reddit post. I'm working on finding Choke to replace the Torpor Orbs, and Flagstones of Trokair to replace the Stirring Wildwood.
Just curious, Why flagstones over stirring?
GUGEdric, Spymaster of Trest - Elfball
WUBOloro, Ageless Ascetic- Doomsday!
RWUEphara, God of the Polis - Blink + Control
GBGGlissa, the Traitor - Stax & Lands
URGMaelstrom Wanderer - Goodstuff RUG
RGWMayael the Anima - Timmy
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher - The One Hit Wonder
RGWMarath, Will of the Wild - Old-school Enchantress Hate
RWRAurelia, the Warleader - Equipment Aggro
GGGReki, the History of Kamigawa - Legends + Banding
UBRSedris, the Traitor King - Creatures with : Ability
BUBPhenax, God of Deception - Mill
*Sidenote, I specifically excluded infinite combos from all these decks with the exception of Marath and the squirrel nest + Earthcraft combo.
Looking for something Aggressive in modern? Try - BR Aggro
I'm not a big fan of lands that come in tapped, I also like the fact that I can ghost quarter Flagstones to fix mana problems, or in response to Blood Moon
While I can understand the dislike of lands coming in tapped, I'd say that you're going to miss out a lot on not having any manlands. The build is somewhat weak to fliers, and I can't count the number of times people attack in to a Stirring Wildwood only to lose their flier because no one remembers that it has reach. Its a solid 3/4 body with a low activation cost compared to other worldwake manlands and makes a nice beater, too. Manlands win games.
Blood Moon: you have basics and six dorks, plus your curve is most 2-3 cmc spells. You additionally have qasali pridemages main deck that can easily blow them up. I don't think Blood Moon has ever really done all that much against me when people play it, honestly.
I'll assume you're already aware of the awkwardness any search effect has when you build your deck with four Leonin Arbiter.
For reference / comparison, this is my typical manabase:
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Leonin Arbiter
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Loxodon Smiter
3 Qasali Pridemage
3 Voice of Resurgence
2 Kitchen Finks
2 Scavenging Ooze
1 Aven Mindcensor
1 Brimaz, King of Oreskos
1 Linvala, Keeper of Silence
1 Wilt-Leaf Liege
4 Path to Exile
3 Collected Company
1 Dromoka's Command
Lands (23)
4 Razorverge Thicket
4 Temple Garden
3 Horizon Canopy
1 Brushland
1 Stirring Wildwood
2 Forest
1 Plains
4 Ghost Quarter
2 Tectonic Edge
1 Gavony Township
3 Stony Silence
2 Rest in Peace
3 Kor Firewalker
2 Engineered Explosives
1 Hushwing Gryff
1 Sunlance
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Celestial Purge
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
Here is my thought on cards choice.
There is 3 spots that I dont consider necessary and be changed with other cards:
Aven Mindcensor
Brimaz, King of Oreskos
Wilt-Leaf Liege
I like the mindcensor as the fifth search disruption effect. Brimaz is very powerful in general, however it doesnt particulary contribute to the deck really. Wilt-Leaf Liege is good indeed but i would not play more then 2. I would see him suite just better in pure aggro decks with tokens.
For the sideboard I think Sunlance should have it spot there; it help dealing with aggressive deck, can also get rid of dark confident. Gaddock Teeg I can see this card good to deal with many cards like Ad nauseam, supreme verdict, cryptic command, Planeswalkers, Scapeshift, etc. I see many sideboard without the 1x celestial purge and im wondering why because its just one of those card that can deal with a huge amount of permanent. Also one last thing about the sideboard, Grixis deck is now really present in the meta and i found it very hard to beat them without stoping them from interacting with their graveyard, thus why I think 2x Rest in Peace is needed.
Many of you guys only play 2 Qasali but I personaly found it to be one of the best card in Hatebear; a good beater with exalted that can deal with problematic cards like Splinter twin. I dont like the 2 Kitchen finks in the deck but I think its just a safe choice in a meta full of burn deck. CoCo have been super effective for me almost all the time. Like some have mentioned already, one of the reason why CoCo is so useful in this deck is that it can bring you back into games that you are far behind. About the Dromoka's Command, I havent tested it enough to tell but so far it feel just alright, havent done any 2 for 1 yet and I wouldn't play any more then one into the maindeck.
For the lands, I personally never had much issues with the 7 colorless lands. Gavony township is just too good to not include it. Last thing id like to say is that Im pretty sure lands that comes into play tapped are too risky for Hatebear. I play only 1 Stirring Wildwood and I find it already risky. The thing is, the first three turns are crucial for Hatebear game plan. If anything have to be delayed for a turn because of a land that comes into play tapped, it can have repercussions that impact the game more then having a manland that can be activated in a long game.