I was hopeing on getting my hatebears/death and taxes build up to snuff so I could run it at my local tourney. Please if you have any feedback it will be most thankful. Thanks.
See, I actually think GW's really good vs most of the field.
vs. Classic Junk - Meh. It's okay? It's not a gimme, but it's not terrible.
vs. Azban GWBears - Better, but not great.
vs. Twin - Good (did I mention how much I'm glad that valorous stance exists?)
vs. Tron - Very good.
vs. Amulet - Very very good.
vs. Affinity - Good.
vs. UW/x - Meh.
vs. Scapeshift - Good
vs. Martyr Proc - Basically depends on if you're playing vs mono white & do you have worship &/ torpor orb/chalice
vs. Burn - Good
vs. Infect - Mostly poor
vs. Bogles - Good
vs. Living End - Like martyr proc, depends on if you SB for it.
Basically, against 70% of the meta, I feel that GW has a positive matchup. As you move up though, in larger events, Junk becomes a smaller part of the total percentage. Everyone knows it's a large part of the meta because, well, it's the tarmogoyf deck, and if you had them, you continue to play them. If you can win in the first few matches vs Junk, and then face a more diverse part of the meta as you go on, basically the junk killer decks, you then become the meta deck that wrecks all the other anti-junk decks. Which is basically the spot the deck is in right now. It's not necessarily powerful enough to go 50/50 vs Classic Junk, but against GWBears I feel it's a much better matchup, with greater threat density, and more answers to their deck. Basically the entire matchup, I feel vs both decks though is being able to beat lingering souls and having removal for the Rhino. The Rhino is basically the only reason I want to play Gavony Township, because it's almost impossible with 4 power creatures to wrestle through. I haven't found out how to improve the Junk matchup yet, but I have every other matchup pretty much feeling very winnable and good. Which is an awful place to be in, but promising right now.
I agree with you in everything but the Junk and Affinity matchups. Junk is a good matchup in my book, maybe not as good as GWBears vs Junk but it's similar. Their discard is also useless against GW Hatebears, and while we don't have Lingering Souls or Siege Rhino, we still have Mirran Crusader and mana denial. Scooze can also combat Tarmogoyf and Lingering Souls.
On the other hand, the Affinity matchup is not that easy. Game 1 you either deal with Plating or you are dead. Post SB, you really need to hit your sweepers... it's not like the Burn matchup where you have a lot of different things to slow them down (Finks, Thalia, Scooze, besides the SB cards). Note that I'm playing 3 Qasali maindeck
Also, I have never felt satisfied with the Twin matchup. It is hard to play a fair deck against them. Are you running Stance maindeck? If not, I think that Celestial Purge can be as good in the SB (deals with all Twin combos, most Junk creatures and is good vs Burn too). And again, I think that between Smiter, Thrun (I still have 1 main), Voice, Finks, Wildwood and Choke, WUR is a fine matchup.
and I would add:
vs. Merfolk - Mostly good (unless they rush you)
vs. BW Tokens - Mostly bad (unless you can deny their mana successfully)
vs. Storm - Even, we have a lot of relevant cards but they still are fast.
Overall, I agree with your premise. This deck is good vs the field if you can build accordingly, and if you know what you are doing with it (and what others are doing with their decks! ). But sometimes, it's really hard to play because the cards are not powerful.
Btw, how many Burn-exclusive hate cards are you guys playing in the board right now? I was thinking of doing -1 Firewalker +1 Purge, to help others MU's as well. Is not that good, but it has a lot of applications.
I believe WoTC's new policy is to make sure that every color can enjoy the exciting gameplay mechanic of making undercosted dudes and then turning them sideways. Clearly the future of magic.
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Notably they discuss the competitive REL rulings on paying Arbiter's cost. It's important to note this because people often fetch incorrectly with Leonin Arbiter in play. If they don't hold priority of pay for his cost before fetching, and you let the fetch resolve, it is too late for them to pay the cost and they've just stone rained themselves.
Does anyone run Eiganjo Castle in their lists? I'm not sure if it stops enough things to warrant a land slot. Especially when the only legendary creatures in most decks are Thalia and Gaddock Teeg. Is there any good replacement for Lingering Souls in the GW deck?
I believe WoTC's new policy is to make sure that every color can enjoy the exciting gameplay mechanic of making undercosted dudes and then turning them sideways. Clearly the future of magic.
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Quote from "Disco Stu" »
Podríamos hacer un topic donde marquemos los peores horrores de ortografía.
Does anyone run Eiganjo Castle in their lists? I'm not sure if it stops enough things to warrant a land slot. Especially when the only legendary creatures in most decks are Thalia and Gaddock Teeg. Is there any good replacement for Lingering Souls in the GW deck?
you could play midnight haunting instead of lingering souls. You lose the flashback but gain instant speed.
Hatebears remains a popular deck online, where the different incarnations make up just under 1% of the metagame. This is also true in paper, where we see a little more than 1% of the metagame playing Hatebears in tournaments across the world. Unfortunately, that MTGO prevalence is just a bit too low to get Hatebears into Tier 2, which is why it's moving down to Developing Competitive at least for this round of forum updates. This was definitely due, in no small part, to the success of Abzan Liege which has a lot of Hatebear similarities but is being discussed in a different thread.
I know what your thinking, fetches and arbiters in the same deck? Yea. It works out well since we can decide when the land fetch hate comes in. This allows you to fetch early and not get trapped by your own arbiters. I am somewhat unsure about the sideboard and the 1 of Mindcensor in the main. I do want to add a Sorin, Solemn Visitor in the side for the burn matchup.
Last weeks FNM went relatively well. Played against Jund, Twin, Delver, Junk ended up going 3-1 heres the breakdown:
Match 1 : Jund - Win
Game 1: I played a turn 2 arbiter and strip mined my opponents black source he did not see another black source for the rest of the game due to extra arbiters.
Game 2: Back and forth but my removal kept his threats from getting out of hand and land destruction kept his raging ravines from becoming threats, also Lingering souls was amazing in this matchup the value was real.
I like jund as a deck but I think my opponent was being greedy with his keeps.
Match 2: UR twin - Win
Game 1: I played a substatial number of threats such as Voice and had the removal for my opponents attempt at twin.
Game 2: Opened a hand with great answers but did not get much mana the game ended quickly from that point.
Game 3: Turn 2 choke, turn 3 siege rhino, turn 4 thoughtseize a twin piece play arbiter and ghost quarter land. My opponent conceded at this point.
Thoughtseize makes this matchup really easy.
Match 3: UWR Delver - Lost
Game 1: Played a few threats but he had the removal for each and ended up getting lands instead of threats.
Game 2: Saw 2 smiters and 1 Hierarch, the rest were lands untill the game ended.
I think I was punished by the mana base, or variance or just the shuffling could not evaluate the matchup properly.
Match 4: Junk
Game 1: Played threats, he played threats, I had more threats and won.
Game 2: Turn 2 Brimaz with double exalted triggers kept attacking into his board and drew multiple copies of lingering souls.
Junk is a relatively easy or manageable matchup. I do not find myself losing this matchup.
Went 4-0 tonight
2-0 vs UB control
2-1 vs Merfolk
2-1 vs Burn
2-1 vs G Elves with combo effect. Game 2 Linvala, keeper of silence won me the game. Game 3 mirran crusader and worshipfinished it.
So uh... Collected Company. That looks really good for hatebears even if it comes down late, especially since it's at Instant speed. Four mana to dig six and put two creatures into play and bottom everything else?
Just saw Collected Company and I decided to throw 4 copies into Hatebears and do some test hands just to see how it would do. This card is the real deal. Not only do we get card advantage in a green shell, but we also are able to choose the best 2 hatebears out of 6 cards and deploy them onto the battlefield. This card is insane for us, and the card affects the design of the deck as well. Now you can run less copies of certain silver bullet hatebears because you can more consistently get them. This also improves our sideboard plans, allowing us to get our backbreaking creatures much more easily in the appropriate matchups.
Definitely seems good. Sideboards and decks will have to warp around it a bit.
For example, I'll probably play Kataki in sideboard now over Creeping Corrosion.
We might even want to load up higher on the 3 CMC slot with brimaz, finks, crusader and reduce the number of 4/5 CMC bombs.
I'm not sure if we need collected company. Thalia makes this card realy high to cast. I think we need the new Anafenza.
The problem with the new Anafenza is that her effect doesn't do enough to play her over any of our current two drops. Leonin Arbiter and Thalia are just better. I can't think of anything else I'd remove from the main in order to try and fit her in either.
Agreed, although she does have a nice interaction with Kitchen Finks. But until there is a cheap white/artifact sac outlet, she's a slightly upgraded Melira in junk decks.
I'm thinking to fit her in a 3-drop slot. She can turn thalias, avens and dorks imunes to 2-for-1 of forked bolt/electrolize, avens can block or been blocked by spirit tokens/vault skirge without dies, and can turn little creatures in real threats
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If you wanna use Vials I suggest 4x restoration angel, 4x flickerwisp and 4x blade splicer
I agree with you in everything but the Junk and Affinity matchups. Junk is a good matchup in my book, maybe not as good as GWBears vs Junk but it's similar. Their discard is also useless against GW Hatebears, and while we don't have Lingering Souls or Siege Rhino, we still have Mirran Crusader and mana denial. Scooze can also combat Tarmogoyf and Lingering Souls.
On the other hand, the Affinity matchup is not that easy. Game 1 you either deal with Plating or you are dead. Post SB, you really need to hit your sweepers... it's not like the Burn matchup where you have a lot of different things to slow them down (Finks, Thalia, Scooze, besides the SB cards). Note that I'm playing 3 Qasali maindeck
Also, I have never felt satisfied with the Twin matchup. It is hard to play a fair deck against them. Are you running Stance maindeck? If not, I think that Celestial Purge can be as good in the SB (deals with all Twin combos, most Junk creatures and is good vs Burn too). And again, I think that between Smiter, Thrun (I still have 1 main), Voice, Finks, Wildwood and Choke, WUR is a fine matchup.
and I would add:
vs. Merfolk - Mostly good (unless they rush you)
vs. BW Tokens - Mostly bad (unless you can deny their mana successfully)
vs. Storm - Even, we have a lot of relevant cards but they still are fast.
Overall, I agree with your premise. This deck is good vs the field if you can build accordingly, and if you know what you are doing with it (and what others are doing with their decks! ). But sometimes, it's really hard to play because the cards are not powerful.
Btw, how many Burn-exclusive hate cards are you guys playing in the board right now? I was thinking of doing -1 Firewalker +1 Purge, to help others MU's as well. Is not that good, but it has a lot of applications.
Matches
UWR Twin: 1-1 draw.
Burn: 2-0 win.
Amulet Bloom: 2-1 win
Living End/Moon: 0-2 loss
Little kid junk: 2-1 win
Top 4 in 2nd place.
Little kid junk: 2-1 win
Burn: 2-0 win
Will add a more detailed report later.
Notably they discuss the competitive REL rulings on paying Arbiter's cost. It's important to note this because people often fetch incorrectly with Leonin Arbiter in play. If they don't hold priority of pay for his cost before fetching, and you let the fetch resolve, it is too late for them to pay the cost and they've just stone rained themselves.
UB Tezzerator
UBW Gifts
B 8Rack
Legacy
RB Goblins
On Swords: I'm not playing any right now, but I think that SoLaS is the best in this metagame.
And I'm playing Okina, temple to the grandfathers, but I could totally drop it.
UB Tezzerator
UBW Gifts
B 8Rack
Legacy
RB Goblins
Hatebears remains a popular deck online, where the different incarnations make up just under 1% of the metagame. This is also true in paper, where we see a little more than 1% of the metagame playing Hatebears in tournaments across the world. Unfortunately, that MTGO prevalence is just a bit too low to get Hatebears into Tier 2, which is why it's moving down to Developing Competitive at least for this round of forum updates. This was definitely due, in no small part, to the success of Abzan Liege which has a lot of Hatebear similarities but is being discussed in a different thread.
Looking at working Spellskite back in. Main board or Side board not sure how many.
Considering 1 mainboard remove Hushwing Gryff, 1 sideboard remove Worship.
4x Noble Hierarch
1x Birds of Paradise
3x Voice of Resurgence
2x Qasali Pridemage
2x Scavenging ooze
4x Leonin Arbiter
4x Loxodon Smiter
2x Brimaz, King of oreskos
1x Aven Mindcensor
2x Wilt-Leaf Liege
3x Siege Rhino
Instants:
3x Path to Exile
2x Abrupt Decay
3x Lingering Souls
Lands:
3x Windswept Heath
3x Marsh Flats
4x Ghost Quarter
1x Horizon Canopy
1x Godless Shrine
1x Overgrown Tomb
2x Temple Garden
2x Stirrind Wildwood
2x Razorverge Thicket
2x Forest
2x plains
1x Swamp
4x Thoughtseize
2x Mirran Crusader
4x Thoughtseize
2x Choke
2x Aven Mindcensor
1x Fracturing Gust
1x Stony Silence
1x Thrun, the Last Troll
1x Relic of Progenitus
1x Engineered Explosives
I know what your thinking, fetches and arbiters in the same deck? Yea. It works out well since we can decide when the land fetch hate comes in. This allows you to fetch early and not get trapped by your own arbiters. I am somewhat unsure about the sideboard and the 1 of Mindcensor in the main. I do want to add a Sorin, Solemn Visitor in the side for the burn matchup.
Last weeks FNM went relatively well. Played against Jund, Twin, Delver, Junk ended up going 3-1 heres the breakdown:
Match 1 : Jund - Win
Game 1: I played a turn 2 arbiter and strip mined my opponents black source he did not see another black source for the rest of the game due to extra arbiters.
Game 2: Back and forth but my removal kept his threats from getting out of hand and land destruction kept his raging ravines from becoming threats, also Lingering souls was amazing in this matchup the value was real.
I like jund as a deck but I think my opponent was being greedy with his keeps.
Match 2: UR twin - Win
Game 1: I played a substatial number of threats such as Voice and had the removal for my opponents attempt at twin.
Game 2: Opened a hand with great answers but did not get much mana the game ended quickly from that point.
Game 3: Turn 2 choke, turn 3 siege rhino, turn 4 thoughtseize a twin piece play arbiter and ghost quarter land. My opponent conceded at this point.
Thoughtseize makes this matchup really easy.
Match 3: UWR Delver - Lost
Game 1: Played a few threats but he had the removal for each and ended up getting lands instead of threats.
Game 2: Saw 2 smiters and 1 Hierarch, the rest were lands untill the game ended.
I think I was punished by the mana base, or variance or just the shuffling could not evaluate the matchup properly.
Match 4: Junk
Game 1: Played threats, he played threats, I had more threats and won.
Game 2: Turn 2 Brimaz with double exalted triggers kept attacking into his board and drew multiple copies of lingering souls.
Junk is a relatively easy or manageable matchup. I do not find myself losing this matchup.
2-0 vs UB control
2-1 vs Merfolk
2-1 vs Burn
2-1 vs G Elves with combo effect. Game 2 Linvala, keeper of silence won me the game. Game 3 mirran crusader and worshipfinished it.
1 Birds of Paradise
4 Leonin Arbiter
3 Qasali Pridemage
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Voice of Resurgence
2 Brimaz, King of Oreskos
3 Hushwing Gryff
4 Loxodon Smiter
1 Mirran Crusader
2 Aven Mindcensor
2 Thrun, the Last Troll
2 Wilt-Leaf Liege
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
1 Baneslayer Angel
4 Path to Exile
3 Forest
2 Plains
4 Ghost Quarter
3 Horizon Canopy
4 Razorverge Thicket
1 Stirring Wildwood
2 Tectonic Edge
4 Temple Garden
2 Torpor Orb
2 Kataki, War's Wage
1 Linvala, Keeper of Silence
1 Mirran Crusader
2 Choke
1 Spellskite
2 Stony Silence
1 Worship
1 Ghostly Prison
1 creeping corrosion
Tournament consists of:
Burn
Merfolk
Soul Sisters
Delver
UB Control
G Elves
B Homebrew based around phyrexian obliterator
All very good decks.
RWGisela, Blade of Explosions
For example, I'll probably play Kataki in sideboard now over Creeping Corrosion.
We might even want to load up higher on the 3 CMC slot with brimaz, finks, crusader and reduce the number of 4/5 CMC bombs.
Agreed, although she does have a nice interaction with Kitchen Finks. But until there is a cheap white/artifact sac outlet, she's a slightly upgraded Melira in junk decks.