I believe WoTC's new policy is to make sure that every color can enjoy the exciting gameplay mechanic of making undercosted dudes and then turning them sideways. Clearly the future of magic.
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Those cards fill different roles. Kor Firewalker is for Storm and Burn match ups. Forge-Tender is for protection against Anger of the Gods and Bolt/Helix/etc...
To be honest, I only liked Forge-Tender when I was running Vial, and even then I had to leave a vial on 1 (not much of an issue if you draw multiple Vials) to get value out of it. Hard casting usually meant you were just saving Arbiter from Bolt before getting hit with Anger. Overall, I don't feel it's worth the sideboard slot.
Firewalker is solid if you have a lot of Burn in your meta. Burn can't effectively deal with it unless they are running Engineered Explosives or Ghostfire, and they don't typically run those cards. Skullcrack is the only real threat to Firewalker, as it stops the damage prevention, so don't block their creatures unless you have to.
Im leaning more and more towards playing either a wonky Abzan Build (without Fetches) or just straight up something else.
Played in a PPTQ last weekend, and did a 4-4.
I did not felt like making relevant play errors, but rather more felt overpowered by Siege Rhino and Treasure Cruise.
Rhino/Cruise/Dig seems to be the new meta, regarding the top decks, and i feel like both are not THAT good of matchups for hatebears.
Played vs Boggles (2-0), Abzan(2-1), Abzan(1-2), UWr(0-2), Goblins(2-0), Scapeshift(1-2), Zoo(0-2)
Before Khans Abzan was an ok matchup, now with Rhino its very bad.
That uWR i played against packed A TON of burn (stuff like Boros Charm), really annoying.
Scapeshift just went much worse for us with Dig.
In general i feel like a lot of decks have gotten relevant Upgrades with Khans while Hatebears has got nothing added to it.
#######
Added Bonus, my list i might try the upcoming tourneys:
Wonky GWb Hatebears w/o Fetches:
Did 3-2 with my list today.
Had to replace one Rhino with a Pridemage (those rhinos are sold out all over the place).
Lost to affinity and Pod, won vs Pod, Twin, Pod.
Manabase was perfectly fine, Rhinos and Decay are actually extremely good.
What i did not like was my sideboard. Stony Silence bites with Spellskite and Engineered Explosives. I will cut an Explosion and add another Silence instead (to hate on Affinity and Pod).
Siege Rhinos are not only good in my deck, but also were very relevant vs all those pod Players. Any1 has a suggestion how to handle them? Would be welcome
Changes to be made:
-1 Pridemage
+1 Siege Rhino
// Sideboard -1 Explosives
// Sideboard +1 Stony Silence
// Sideboard -1 Relic of Progenitus (i just never need it somehow)
// Sideboard +1 ____ (not sure yet, maybe a creeping corrosion again)
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Actually my problem was not to shut down BirthingPod (as a card) but much rather winning against their superiour midrange abilities. Specifically Finks into Rhino into RestoAngel. Add GavonyTownship in and one bear player gets a beating
The same applies vs Abzan(or Junk as it used to be called).
Too bad i cant play TorporOrbs anymore. Those are excellent vs Pod in every way.
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If you are looking for a removal spell (I didn't like Dismember since paying 4 life against Affinity, Burn or Delver seems too much) you could try Crib Swap. It's an instant, exiles, isn't conditional like Devouring Light, and it's splashable... The bad thing is obviously it's mana cost, 3 mana is a lot against some fast decks and resolving one vs Twin or Delver seems kinda hard :/
I understand you guys trying to play black, the extra removal and the rhinos are nice. I often find myself overwhelmed by other decks like Scapeshift, BGx, and things that can go bigger than this bunch of bears. We aren't that fast either, so what can this pile of 2/2's do? I've tried a lot of different things: going Junk for extra removal, disruption a better creatures, Naya for the Bolt-Helix-Path trio (a Zoolish aproach), and even a 4-color Glittering Wish toolbox to have access to 'win in the spot' cards like Slaughter Games, Fracturing Gust, Olivia Voldaren, among others... But it always seemed to be too complicated, and I ended up going back to the roots. Right now, green and white have the answers that this metagame needs. You can't play powerfull cards like Dig Through Time, Siege Rhino, Cranial Plating and Birthing Pod, but you can play things that those decks can't really beat: Choke, Creeping Corrosion, Mirran Crusader, Kor Firewalker, and the list goes on. I rarely lose when the adequate hate card resolves. You also need to have a tuned maindeck.
This is my struggle with Hatebears, and that's why I'm (still) sticking to GW.
I believe WoTC's new policy is to make sure that every color can enjoy the exciting gameplay mechanic of making undercosted dudes and then turning them sideways. Clearly the future of magic.
Quote from "Kakaroto" »
Quote from "Disco Stu" »
Podríamos hacer un topic donde marquemos los peores horrores de ortografía.
Sadly I've been playing a lot more Standard than Modern lately. On the plus side, I'm playing Abzan, and it makes me think that we can run 3 colors without fetch lands. It probably means we play 1-2 more land to increase our fixing, but it's not out of the question. I just wish there was more than Rhino and Decay to really improve the deck.
What we miss out with this is Ghost Quarter, Stirring Wildwood and Horizon Canopy. While I feel that these cards improve the deck, I also think that the deck can operate just fine without them. The question we need to answer is whether or not the deck is better with Abrupt Decay and Siege Rhino, and without those lands.
What we miss out with this is Ghost Quarter, Stirring Wildwood and Horizon Canopy. While I feel that these cards improve the deck, I also think that the deck can operate just fine without them. The question we need to answer is whether or not the deck is better with Abrupt Decay and Siege Rhino, and without those lands.
I've been wondering this myself, thanks for the post. My dilemma is that once you cut GQ, Arbiter becomes less appealing, since Arbiter into GQ is one of our stronger player. I mean, you can still gain tempo with him, and you can still randomly shut down Pod and Scapeshift if they don't have an answer; so I don't think Arbiter is necessarily bad without GQ, but he's definitely less good.
Still, I might try out the manabase you posted this week; straight GW just hasn't been getting there for me lately, so I need to do something to shake things up.
Dol you might wanna check my latest build. Manabase was perfectly fine. Give it a try.
I only saw 7 black mana sources, 9 if you include the 2 Birds. That doesn't sound very consistent to me. The list I posted had 19 green sources, (15 of which can tap for Hierarch on turn 1), 18 white sources and 14 black sources. It hits all colors more consistently, and is twice as likely to have black mana when you need it.
I played a 5 round tournament last saturday and maybe i got lucky but i never was colorscrewed. The manabase is more stable than it might look like.
Also kwep in mind that i need a maximum of 1 black source and if i have that by turn3/4 its perfectly fine.
Maybe we got someone here who can do the math, but if you have 7/60 (9/60 if you count the birds) cards the chances to have it by turn 3-4 is really high.
Its also not like Abzan(/Junk), where you need to have T1 B to cast a Seize/Inquisition.
Been a while since I posted but I do like the idea of switching to junk. Here's what I've decided to go with recently, I'll post results after this weekend.
I may try that eventually, fell in love with Brimaz after i destroyed a delver player with a turn 2 Brimaz 2 games in a row. He couldn't compete with it (felt awesome). But thanks for the input.
Burrenton Forge-Tender or Kor Firewalker? which one is better? Depends on the metagame? What do you prefer?
@Toshi: post your decklist!
@Maadask: It's offtopic, but you mentioned about a Restore Balance that almost topdeck in Milan, can you get me the decklist?
Those cards fill different roles. Kor Firewalker is for Storm and Burn match ups. Forge-Tender is for protection against Anger of the Gods and Bolt/Helix/etc...
To be honest, I only liked Forge-Tender when I was running Vial, and even then I had to leave a vial on 1 (not much of an issue if you draw multiple Vials) to get value out of it. Hard casting usually meant you were just saving Arbiter from Bolt before getting hit with Anger. Overall, I don't feel it's worth the sideboard slot.
Firewalker is solid if you have a lot of Burn in your meta. Burn can't effectively deal with it unless they are running Engineered Explosives or Ghostfire, and they don't typically run those cards. Skullcrack is the only real threat to Firewalker, as it stops the damage prevention, so don't block their creatures unless you have to.
FREE BLOODBRAID ELF
Played in a PPTQ last weekend, and did a 4-4.
I did not felt like making relevant play errors, but rather more felt overpowered by Siege Rhino and Treasure Cruise.
Rhino/Cruise/Dig seems to be the new meta, regarding the top decks, and i feel like both are not THAT good of matchups for hatebears.
Played vs Boggles (2-0), Abzan(2-1), Abzan(1-2), UWr(0-2), Goblins(2-0), Scapeshift(1-2), Zoo(0-2)
Before Khans Abzan was an ok matchup, now with Rhino its very bad.
That uWR i played against packed A TON of burn (stuff like Boros Charm), really annoying.
Scapeshift just went much worse for us with Dig.
In general i feel like a lot of decks have gotten relevant Upgrades with Khans while Hatebears has got nothing added to it.
#######
Added Bonus, my list i might try the upcoming tourneys:
Wonky GWb Hatebears w/o Fetches:
2 Birds of Paradise
2 Scavenging Ooze
4 Leonin Arbiter
2 Aven Mindcensor
3 Voice of Resurgence
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Kitchen Finks
4 Loxodon Smiter
4 Siege Rhino
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
4 Path to Exile
4 Ghost Quarter
4 Razorverge Thicket
4 Temple Garden
1 Brushland
1 Stirring Wildwood
1 Forest
3 Overgrown Tomb
3 Godless Shrine
1 Llanowar Wastes
3 Kor Firewalker
1 Aven Mindcensor
1 Creeping Corrosion
1 Relic of Progenitus
2 Stony Silence
2 Spellskite
2 Engineered Explosives
3 Choke
Had to replace one Rhino with a Pridemage (those rhinos are sold out all over the place).
Lost to affinity and Pod, won vs Pod, Twin, Pod.
Manabase was perfectly fine, Rhinos and Decay are actually extremely good.
What i did not like was my sideboard. Stony Silence bites with Spellskite and Engineered Explosives. I will cut an Explosion and add another Silence instead (to hate on Affinity and Pod).
Siege Rhinos are not only good in my deck, but also were very relevant vs all those pod Players. Any1 has a suggestion how to handle them? Would be welcome
2 Birds of Paradise
2 Scavenging Ooze
1 Qasali Pridemage
4 Leonin Arbiter
2 Aven Mindcensor
3 Voice of Resurgence
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Kitchen Finks
4 Loxodon Smiter
3 Siege Rhino
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
4 Path to Exile
4 Ghost Quarter
4 Razorverge Thicket
4 Temple Garden
1 Brushland
1 Stirring Wildwood
1 Forest
3 Overgrown Tomb
3 Godless Shrine
1 Llanowar Wastes
2 Kor Firewalker
1 Aven Mindcensor
2 Creeping Corrosion
1 Relic of Progenitus
2 Stony Silence
2 Spellskite
2 Engineered Explosives
3 Choke
Changes to be made:
-1 Pridemage
+1 Siege Rhino
// Sideboard -1 Explosives
// Sideboard +1 Stony Silence
// Sideboard -1 Relic of Progenitus (i just never need it somehow)
// Sideboard +1 ____ (not sure yet, maybe a creeping corrosion again)
The same applies vs Abzan(or Junk as it used to be called).
Too bad i cant play TorporOrbs anymore. Those are excellent vs Pod in every way.
The less Rhinos the easier the match is from my experience.
Yeah i totally agree there. We only have path to handle it. Maybe adding Dismember is the way to go...or Maelstrom Pulse..
I wouldn't say "it plays"; "it runs" seems okay. In both cases "it" meaning a deck.
It's fine to say either "I play" or "I run".
It's largely style and it's certainly not all that important. Neither expression is really accurate but both are widely used. It's just game jargon.
Frenzy-Affinity-Ghost Quarter-Rock-Tokens- RGWPhyrexian Zoo- WVial KnightsStandard:
BW Knights(Rotated)Pioneer: RW Knights - BW Rally Zombies - UW Heroes
Commander:WUG
Jenara, Asura of War- WGSigarda, Host of HeronsCasualties of economicsLegacy: Good-night, sweet prince. Mono-R Burn
I understand you guys trying to play black, the extra removal and the rhinos are nice. I often find myself overwhelmed by other decks like Scapeshift, BGx, and things that can go bigger than this bunch of bears. We aren't that fast either, so what can this pile of 2/2's do? I've tried a lot of different things: going Junk for extra removal, disruption a better creatures, Naya for the Bolt-Helix-Path trio (a Zoolish aproach), and even a 4-color Glittering Wish toolbox to have access to 'win in the spot' cards like Slaughter Games, Fracturing Gust, Olivia Voldaren, among others... But it always seemed to be too complicated, and I ended up going back to the roots. Right now, green and white have the answers that this metagame needs. You can't play powerfull cards like Dig Through Time, Siege Rhino, Cranial Plating and Birthing Pod, but you can play things that those decks can't really beat: Choke, Creeping Corrosion, Mirran Crusader, Kor Firewalker, and the list goes on. I rarely lose when the adequate hate card resolves. You also need to have a tuned maindeck.
This is my struggle with Hatebears, and that's why I'm (still) sticking to GW.
4x Razorverge Thicket
4x Sandesteppe Citadel
4x Temple Garden
4x Overgrown Tomb
3x Godless Shrine
2x Mana Confluence
1x Plains
1x Forest
1x Swamp
What we miss out with this is Ghost Quarter, Stirring Wildwood and Horizon Canopy. While I feel that these cards improve the deck, I also think that the deck can operate just fine without them. The question we need to answer is whether or not the deck is better with Abrupt Decay and Siege Rhino, and without those lands.
FREE BLOODBRAID ELF
I've been wondering this myself, thanks for the post. My dilemma is that once you cut GQ, Arbiter becomes less appealing, since Arbiter into GQ is one of our stronger player. I mean, you can still gain tempo with him, and you can still randomly shut down Pod and Scapeshift if they don't have an answer; so I don't think Arbiter is necessarily bad without GQ, but he's definitely less good.
Still, I might try out the manabase you posted this week; straight GW just hasn't been getting there for me lately, so I need to do something to shake things up.
Modern: GW Hatebears/midrange, WGU Knightfall/evolution midrange stuff
Standard: nope
Legacy: W Death & Taxes
EDH (not Commander!): W Avacyn, Angel of Hope, GR Ruric Thar, the Unbowed, WGB Anafenza, the Foremost, WU Hanna, Ship's Navigator
I only saw 7 black mana sources, 9 if you include the 2 Birds. That doesn't sound very consistent to me. The list I posted had 19 green sources, (15 of which can tap for Hierarch on turn 1), 18 white sources and 14 black sources. It hits all colors more consistently, and is twice as likely to have black mana when you need it.
FREE BLOODBRAID ELF
Also kwep in mind that i need a maximum of 1 black source and if i have that by turn3/4 its perfectly fine.
Maybe we got someone here who can do the math, but if you have 7/60 (9/60 if you count the birds) cards the chances to have it by turn 3-4 is really high.
Its also not like Abzan(/Junk), where you need to have T1 B to cast a Seize/Inquisition.
4x Noble Hierarch
2x Qasali Pridemage
3x Voice of Resurgence
2x Scavenging Ooze
3x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4x Leonin Arbiter
4x Loxodon Smiter
2x Brimaz, King of Oreskos
3x Aven Mindcensor
3x Siege Rhino
Instants:
4x Path to Exile
3x Abrupt Decay
4x Ghost Quarter
1x Tectonic Edge
2x Temple Garden
3x Razorverge Thicket
3x Overgrown Tomb
2x Godless Shrine
1x Twilight Mire
1x Stirring Wildwood
2x Horizon Canopy
2x Forest
2x Plains
2x Choke
2x Engineered Explosives
1x Thrun, the last troll
1x Stony Silence
1x Mark of Asylum
1x Sunlance
1x Relic of Progenitus
1x Fracturing Gust
2x Zealous Persecution
2x Mirran Crusader
1x Linvala, Keeper of Silence
Still Unsure about the overgrown tomb to Godless Shrine ratio might switch it around to hit white more often. Also unsure of whether or not Fracturing Gust and sunlance is still needed with the abrupt decays.
I would btw play the 4th Voice and Rhino instead of 2 Brimaz (double W). But that might just be a feeling
....I might even suggest a step further and slot in 2 Wilt-leaf Liege