I mean if you electrolyze a goyf/rhino/tasigur and then bolt/helix it you are 1 for 1 ing them, its not as bad against junk as you think it is.
I like flashfreeze for, : twin, burn, scapeshift, jund, junk, infect (usually), collected melira, little kid junk, and more random decks im probably forgetting, its not really vital though.
yep kor dies to skullcrack, but only if he blocks and then they skullcrack.
I like deprive alot because I run a bit less threats than you
4 delver
4 snap
4 geist
1 clique
so my games probably go a bit longer, this deck isn't super aggro-ey for me, I play the control deck alot and mana leak gets dead against twin/junk/scapeshift and stuff easily and deprives drawback really, you barely will cast it turn 2 unless you went turn 1 delver but if you go turn 1 delver and leave counter mana up you are in a very good position, I usually cast my counters at turn 3-6, also I run 4 path and snap path alot so path makes leak dies ALOT faster.
if you find yourself winning fast alot I would run more manaleaks, but if im not playing young pyro or something I think deprive is better.
To see the world in a grain of sand, and to see heaven in a wild flower, hold infinity in the palm of your hands, and eternity in an hour. - William Blake
It was not delight, not wonder that arose among us, it was the peace of heaven. He who has thought most deeply loves what is most alive. - Friedrich Holderlin
I mean if you electrolyze a goyf/rhino/tasigur and then bolt/helix it you are 1 for 1 ing them, its not as bad against junk as you think it is.
Maybe not, but I really don't want to pay 4-5 mana to kill Goyf, Rhino, or Tasigur when I could just use Valorous Stance and Path to Exile. 4 of each with 4 Snapcaster Mages should be enough removal against them without using multiple cards to do so.
I like flashfreeze for, : twin, burn, scapeshift, jund, junk, infect (usually), collected melira, little kid junk, and more random decks im probably forgetting, its not really vital though.
While it is good everywhere, it still got worse since January and I generally want to shy away from lower-impact sideboard cards anyways.
yep kor dies to skullcrack, but only if he blocks and then they skullcrack.
The main reason why Kor is so good is because it can block with impunity. It isn't great if you aren't blocking and don't have a bunch of red spells yourself and they are just as likely to have the Skullcrack when you block as they are to have it when you cast Timely Reinforcements.
I like deprive alot because I run a bit less threats than you
4 delver
4 snap
4 geist
1 clique
so my games probably go a bit longer, this deck isn't super aggro-ey for me, I play the control deck alot and mana leak gets dead against twin/junk/scapeshift and stuff easily and deprives drawback really, you barely will cast it turn 2 unless you went turn 1 delver but if you go turn 1 delver and leave counter mana up you are in a very good position, I usually cast my counters at turn 3-6, also I run 4 path and snap path alot so path makes leak dies ALOT faster.
That probably has a lot do do with it. My ideal turn to play my counterspells is turn 2 and 4 after I hopefully land a Geist, so Mana Leak's downside matters less for me.
The problem with Blood Moon against GR Tron is that while it shuts off their acceleration strategy, it doesn't have much of an effect in terms of color screwing them. First, the only cards in the maindeck that can't be cast off of Red mana are Ancient Stirrings and Sylvan Scrying. Second, they have Chromatics to give them the Green mana they need for those cards. So it slows Tron down, but they can still cast Wurmcoil Engine or Karn Liberated off of 6 or 7 lands, and of course Oblivion Stone will take out Blood Moon with just 5 lands.
If the Blood Moon is accompanied by pressure, then Tron can be in trouble. Of course, if that pressure is in the form of creatures, then you've just made Pyroclasm (and Firespout, if you aren't using flying creatures) all the more easy to cast. I remember recently playing a game against UR Delver/Pyromancer, and their Blood Moon actually gave me the Red mana I needed to cast Pyroclasm and wipe their board.
I think I am going to cut 1 Snapcaster Mage from my deck and only run 3. I know that this seems controversial, but I have been feeling like I could use some more actual threats and cutting anything else that isn't an actual threat would reduce spell density and raise the curve. I'll be replacing the 4th Snapcaster Mage with a 2nd Mantis Rider, which I think is really well positioned in the meta right now (Lightning Bolt isn't as prevalent as it used to be, especially since Grixis Delver hasn't really caught on in paper yet).
In round 1 I was horribly crushed by Burn. In game 1 I kept a decent keep with Valorous Stance, Bolt, Spell Snare, Geist, and 3 lands. He quickly beat me down with haste creatures after I took too much damage from my lands and killed me with Boros Charm after I found a Mantis Rider to block. In game 2 I got a turn 1 Delver and a turn 2 Delver with Bolt, Snare, and Lavamancer in hand. The Delvers didn't flip for the rest of the game since I just drew creatures and I wasn't able to land Lavamancer because I needed to leave up Bolt and only had 1 red source. He locked me out of the game with Eidolon with me at 2 life and then bypassed Spellskite with Lava Spike to win. I never saw a Lightning Helix in any of the games. So unfair.
After 2 more match losses, I dropped 0-3, winning 0 games. I think I am shelving this deck and Modern for now. I've been trying to deny it, but Modern has moved on without us. Every other deck has gotten a bunch of powerful tools since we were last good while we have only gotten Valorous Stance and sometimes Mantis Rider. We have no way catch up when we fall behind and none of our individual plays are that powerful, so when we fall behind we are basically just hoping our opponents will draw badly. Our matchup against Junk is horrible, but to fix it we have to run cards like Valorous Stance that aren't great against other decks. We also don't seem to have any matchups other than possibly WUR Control that are more than slightly in our favor. I just don't see the point of playing this deck anymore.
Before you throwing in the towel, try this 75. A couple of changes, Vapor Snag over Valorous Stance and Jotun Grunt over Vendilion Clique. Also, added a 1-of Isochron Sceptor and Izzet Staticaster in the sideboard.
Not true, we completely and utterly destroy splinter twin and infect.
Junk is pretty good for me to.
Burn is 50/50
Affinity is pretty good to.
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To see the world in a grain of sand, and to see heaven in a wild flower, hold infinity in the palm of your hands, and eternity in an hour. - William Blake
It was not delight, not wonder that arose among us, it was the peace of heaven. He who has thought most deeply loves what is most alive. - Friedrich Holderlin
Not true, we completely and utterly destroy splinter twin and infect.
Fair enough. I have no clue how I have never been paired against a Twin player though.
Junk is pretty good for me to.
How? I literally am playing 4 Valorous Stance and 4 Path to Exile main and the matchup is 50/50 at best.
Burn is 50/50
Burn is 50/50 if you have the $200 to buy Scalding Tarns that will be reprinted in 6 months.
Affinity is pretty good to.
Affinity is good, but I'd say it is still 60/40 at best in our favor, not hugely so..
Edit: I have to question your assertion that we are 50/50 or higher against every tier 1 deck in the format. Maybe your build is magical, but it seems highly unrealistic.
I like Vapor Snag over Valorous Stance. It is 1 mana cheaper which is a big deal in Modern. It also buys you more time the opponent has to recast it and wait another turn for it to attack. Lastly, it serves as reach in addition to Bolt and Helix.
I like Vapor Snag over Valorous Stance. It is 1 mana cheaper which is a big deal in Modern. It also buys you more time the opponent has to recast it and wait another turn for it to attack. Lastly, it serves as reach in addition to Bolt and Helix.
I'd like Vapor Snag a lot more if Siege Rhino wasn't one of the biggest things I wanted to kill.
Before you throwing in the towel, try this 75. A couple of changes, Vapor Snag over Valorous Stance and Jotun Grunt over Vendilion Clique. Also, added a 1-of Isochron Sceptor and Izzet Staticaster in the sideboard.
To see the world in a grain of sand, and to see heaven in a wild flower, hold infinity in the palm of your hands, and eternity in an hour. - William Blake
It was not delight, not wonder that arose among us, it was the peace of heaven. He who has thought most deeply loves what is most alive. - Friedrich Holderlin
Yep. Need to to bring in Mirran Crusaders and all of my other threats are stronger against Junk than it, especially given how terrible it is against Lingering Souls.
To see the world in a grain of sand, and to see heaven in a wild flower, hold infinity in the palm of your hands, and eternity in an hour. - William Blake
It was not delight, not wonder that arose among us, it was the peace of heaven. He who has thought most deeply loves what is most alive. - Friedrich Holderlin
@Gul_Dukat: I like your list, the only two things I'm skeptical about are the Kor Firewalkers instead of Timely Reinforcements, but thats a topic we've already discussed... and the other is the Sower of Temptation and how I think it's a fragile removal. By the way, have you had any trouble running 4 Geist? the most I have run in my deck is 3 and there were some hands were I drew 2 and had to keep 1 in hand.
@Valanarch: I feel you, I was extremely depress after a series of bad games and losses and I thought the deck was dead, but stubborn as I am, I started trying different versions of the deck, first taking out geist and trying Steppe Lynx, then trying Pyro, then going just Izzet Delver, then returning to a Jeskai Pyro Delver list, and that has been working for me so far... Lately I have been flirting with a grixis delver list and it seems that Tasigur, the Golden Fang gives the deck the abusive power it used to have back with Treasure Cruise and Dig Through Time, but time and testing will tell, although the fact remains that I identify myself to much with the Jeskai colors so thats an emocional pull towards this deck thats hard to resist. I would like to see the final list you took to the pptq.
Valanarch, if you took the list you posted on the page before I noticed you weren't running young pyromancer. He can win games all by himself and I highly suggest you test him out before shelving the deck.
Also, I've been playing a fair bit online and have realized valorous stance is too often a dead card and have gone with 4 path to exile. In regards to counter spells, remand is at least a three of in the main board.
A card to consider for SB should be sulfur elemental not only does he get rid of pesky lingering souls tokens but Geist is swinging in for 8 with the angel each turn.
Young Pyromancer is way better in grixis delver. this deck doesn't cast that many spells very quickly like grixis I would not play pyromancer or swiftspear in UWR
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To see the world in a grain of sand, and to see heaven in a wild flower, hold infinity in the palm of your hands, and eternity in an hour. - William Blake
It was not delight, not wonder that arose among us, it was the peace of heaven. He who has thought most deeply loves what is most alive. - Friedrich Holderlin
Young Pyromancer is way better in grixis delver. this deck doesn't cast that many spells very quickly like grixis I would not play pyromancer or swiftspear in UWR
While I agree that Monastery Swiftspear isn't good in our deck, I have to disagree on Young Pyromancer, our deck is able to produce enough tokens out of it, maybe not in the numbers a grixis delver deck would, but enough to warrant the use of Pyro in the deck. I've been doing a lot better ever since I put 4 of them in my list, which in the end turned similar to the most common grixis delver lists except that I'm running 3 Paths instead of 2 Murderous Cut + 1 Terminate, 4 Helix instead of the 3 Thought Scour + 1 Kolaghan's Command and 2 Geist instead of 2 Tasigur
I like flashfreeze for, : twin, burn, scapeshift, jund, junk, infect (usually), collected melira, little kid junk, and more random decks im probably forgetting, its not really vital though.
yep kor dies to skullcrack, but only if he blocks and then they skullcrack.
I like deprive alot because I run a bit less threats than you
4 delver
4 snap
4 geist
1 clique
so my games probably go a bit longer, this deck isn't super aggro-ey for me, I play the control deck alot and mana leak gets dead against twin/junk/scapeshift and stuff easily and deprives drawback really, you barely will cast it turn 2 unless you went turn 1 delver but if you go turn 1 delver and leave counter mana up you are in a very good position, I usually cast my counters at turn 3-6, also I run 4 path and snap path alot so path makes leak dies ALOT faster.
if you find yourself winning fast alot I would run more manaleaks, but if im not playing young pyro or something I think deprive is better.
EDIT : oops just realized I said I ran 1 leak.
I run 3 snare 2 leak 2 deprive.
It was not delight, not wonder that arose among us, it was the peace of heaven. He who has thought most deeply loves what is most alive. - Friedrich Holderlin
1907 Constructed Rating on Magic Online.
Maybe not, but I really don't want to pay 4-5 mana to kill Goyf, Rhino, or Tasigur when I could just use Valorous Stance and Path to Exile. 4 of each with 4 Snapcaster Mages should be enough removal against them without using multiple cards to do so.
While it is good everywhere, it still got worse since January and I generally want to shy away from lower-impact sideboard cards anyways.
The main reason why Kor is so good is because it can block with impunity. It isn't great if you aren't blocking and don't have a bunch of red spells yourself and they are just as likely to have the Skullcrack when you block as they are to have it when you cast Timely Reinforcements.
That probably has a lot do do with it. My ideal turn to play my counterspells is turn 2 and 4 after I hopefully land a Geist, so Mana Leak's downside matters less for me.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
4 Delver of Secrets
2 Grim Lavamancer
4 Snapcaster Mage
2 Jotun Grunt
3 Geist of Saint Traft
Other Spells: 25
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Lightning Helix
4 Path to Exile
3 Vapor Snag
4 Remand
2 Spell Snare
4 Serum Visions
4 Flooded Strand
3 Scalding Tarn
3 Arid Mesa
2 Steam Vents
2 Hallowed Fountain
1 Seachrome Coast
1 Sacred Foundry
2 Island
1 Plains
1 Mountain
3 Kor Firewalker
2 Engineered Explosives
2 Wear // Tear
2 Stony Silence
2 Negate
2 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1 Izzet Staticaster
1 Isochron Scepter
Junk is pretty good for me to.
Burn is 50/50
Affinity is pretty good to.
It was not delight, not wonder that arose among us, it was the peace of heaven. He who has thought most deeply loves what is most alive. - Friedrich Holderlin
1907 Constructed Rating on Magic Online.
Fair enough. I have no clue how I have never been paired against a Twin player though.
How? I literally am playing 4 Valorous Stance and 4 Path to Exile main and the matchup is 50/50 at best.
Burn is 50/50 if you have the $200 to buy Scalding Tarns that will be reprinted in 6 months.
Affinity is good, but I'd say it is still 60/40 at best in our favor, not hugely so..
Edit: I have to question your assertion that we are 50/50 or higher against every tier 1 deck in the format. Maybe your build is magical, but it seems highly unrealistic.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
I'd like Vapor Snag a lot more if Siege Rhino wasn't one of the biggest things I wanted to kill.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
Other than what I mentioned about Vapor Snag, I also am not a fan of Jotun Grunt. It seems like he dies to himself pretty quickly.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
It was not delight, not wonder that arose among us, it was the peace of heaven. He who has thought most deeply loves what is most alive. - Friedrich Holderlin
1907 Constructed Rating on Magic Online.
Yep. Need to to bring in Mirran Crusaders and all of my other threats are stronger against Junk than it, especially given how terrible it is against Lingering Souls.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
Jund seems to be gaining alot of popularity so would you guys side in crusader against them?
testing a 3rd kor walker over a one of burst lightning
My Build
4 Geist of Saint Traft
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Delver of Secrets
1 Vendilion Clique
Lands
2 Island
4 Flooded Strand
1 Arid Mesa
2 Steam Vents
1 Mountain
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Plains
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Seachrome Coast
2 Deprive
2 Mana Leak
3 Spell Snare
Removal
4 Path to Exile
3 Electrolyze
4 Lightning Helix
2 Valorous Stance
4 Lightning Bolt
Cantrips
4 Serum Visions
2 Flashfreeze
1 Negate
1 Dispel
3 Kor Firewalker
1 Wear // Tear
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Mirran Crusader
2 Spellskite
2 Sower of Temptation
It was not delight, not wonder that arose among us, it was the peace of heaven. He who has thought most deeply loves what is most alive. - Friedrich Holderlin
1907 Constructed Rating on Magic Online.
@Valanarch: I feel you, I was extremely depress after a series of bad games and losses and I thought the deck was dead, but stubborn as I am, I started trying different versions of the deck, first taking out geist and trying Steppe Lynx, then trying Pyro, then going just Izzet Delver, then returning to a Jeskai Pyro Delver list, and that has been working for me so far... Lately I have been flirting with a grixis delver list and it seems that Tasigur, the Golden Fang gives the deck the abusive power it used to have back with Treasure Cruise and Dig Through Time, but time and testing will tell, although the fact remains that I identify myself to much with the Jeskai colors so thats an emocional pull towards this deck thats hard to resist. I would like to see the final list you took to the pptq.
Flipping Delvers since 2011
MY DECKS
Modern: UR Izzet Delver
Pauper: U Delver Faeries | R Red Burn | GInfect
Commander: WB Athreos, God of Passage | UR Keranos Spellslinger | GWU Derevi, Tempo Tactician | BGU Tasigur, the Golden Fang | RW Feather, the Redeemed
Also, I've been playing a fair bit online and have realized valorous stance is too often a dead card and have gone with 4 path to exile. In regards to counter spells, remand is at least a three of in the main board.
A card to consider for SB should be sulfur elemental not only does he get rid of pesky lingering souls tokens but Geist is swinging in for 8 with the angel each turn.
4 Delver of Secrets
1 Grim Lavamancer
3 Young Pyromancer
4 Snapcaster Mage
3 Geist of Saint Traft
Other Spells: 25
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Lightning Helix
4 Path to Exile
3 Vapor Snag
4 Remand
2 Spell Snare
4 Serum Visions
4 Flooded Strand
3 Scalding Tarn
3 Arid Mesa
2 Steam Vents
2 Hallowed Fountain
1 Seachrome Coast
1 Sacred Foundry
2 Island
1 Plains
1 Mountain
3 Kor Firewalker
2 Engineered Explosives
2 Wear // Tear
2 Stony Silence
2 Negate
2 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1 Izzet Staticaster
1 Isochron Scepter
It was not delight, not wonder that arose among us, it was the peace of heaven. He who has thought most deeply loves what is most alive. - Friedrich Holderlin
1907 Constructed Rating on Magic Online.
Flipping Delvers since 2011
MY DECKS
Modern: UR Izzet Delver
Pauper: U Delver Faeries | R Red Burn | GInfect
Commander: WB Athreos, God of Passage | UR Keranos Spellslinger | GWU Derevi, Tempo Tactician | BGU Tasigur, the Golden Fang | RW Feather, the Redeemed