Hey Kyro, mind giving a play by play if you can remember? Would give some insight on how Day's did against Burn and Grixis Twin!
Did not take any notes on this tournament, but :
Playing against burn was quite straight forward. If i remember correctly i finished first game at around 10 lifes, and the second at 15.
The key point is that actual burn builds plays like 15 creatures, none with flying.
If they cast their creature, they dont blast you. If they blast you, they dont kill your creatures.
Welding jar is your ally. Always blast Eidolon.
I played my master beeing sure that they could not blast it.
Activate your moths only if they are full tap.
Day's can be awfull agains burn, but if you cast it befor turn 3 (for him), they will never have enough mana to kill you with a fresh hand. You will next have enough artifacts to kill with master/cranial/ravager.
Twin was another amazing game.
I started first.
Played darksteel, mox, 2 memnites, drum. Took one blue from mox, played another mox, cast master.
Passed turn.
Opponent played an island and a serum vision, passed turn
Top decked day's... Atacked for 10, played day's
My opponent played a fetch and passed turn.
Flushed my hand and a cranial (countered) for the win.
Game 2
He started, played a fetch.
I played inkmoth, orni, mox, drum, pest and keeped darksteel, ravager and day's in hand.
He fetched a steam vents, played an island, passed turn.
Draw cranial. Played cranial, countered. played ravager. Attacked for 2 poisons.
He played an serum and passed turn.
Draw blinkmoth. Played it and swing for victory with sacrificing my board for ravager and inkmoth.
Planning to play 2 small moderns next week. Will try to take some notes.
But i think my opponents will prepare a sidebord against my build.
You are attributing the raw power of affinity to day's undoing. You aren't losing many games after a T1 MoE or EC.
Also I'd like to know how you cast cranial plating and arcbound and still got in with posion.
You are asking the wrong question. Affinity is all about synergies. A Memnite seems like a pretty useless card and is unplayable anywhere else, but here it works, because it's about synergy. Walker has an amazing synergy with Ravager, a good synergy with Overseer, and other synergies with cards such as Atog, Disciple of the Vault or Shrapnel Blast. The card is by itself a nice late game topdeck. 4 mana for a 2/2 that can potentially grow itself each turn and two (or more) 1/1 fliers is great.
I don't think that's the wrong question at all. If it requires 2 mana just to be a 1/1 and needs one of those two cards just to be any good, how is it worth it?
Arcbound is 2 mana for 1/1 and makes spot removal pointless, creates countless interactions for you and can win games out of nowhere.
Overseer is 2 mana for 1/1 and makes all your smaller dudes bigger over time. Slightly faster than making Walker bigger over time.
I'm not seeing it yet. I'm not saying it isn't good, I just want to see it. Until then, I'm getting rid of the couple that I got with this ridiculous price spike. If it's good for modern robots, I'll get it in the future when it goes back to being sub $10.
Hangarback Walker adds an interesting dynamic to opponents because they see it and wonder if they should attack into it. I had a 2/2 out (among other creatures) facing down a Goyf and my opponent didnt want to swing in because of the unfavorable trades on his part. He kills a 2/2 but creates 2 - 1/1 fliers, which he cannot block or destroy in mass quantities, only 1-for-1 removal like bolt.
I am going to try 2 and possibly 3 going forward and will also be running Master of Etherium since the walker CAN be played for 0 in that case (although not recommended). This way, it also lives if it gets "blinked" which happened to me on Friday.
Now that's interesting and I haven't thought of it in that way.
The only problem with that strategy is that he doesn't provide any tokens upon death, right away at least. Still something to consider as a counter to blink effects.
Also, why is it good when your Overseer gets Path to Exiled while it's bad when the same thing happens to Walker? And it's definitely better to get your Walker bolted than your Overseer.
I think what Kingemilien is trying to say is that overseer is a good card to trade the 1-for-1 removal spells on. If left unchecked, it can take over the game pretty quickly (given you have other creatures on the board to beat with). To this point, I would rather play my overseer out before the walker because it will hopefully draw out the bolt or path so that the walker has a clear shot at getting bigger and better. If they don't handle the overseer, then it looks like you are in the clear, for the short term!
As for the blink problem, if you have a ravager out with NOTHING else (not sure how often this happens) it can have the same effect.
Seems like a well balanced build to me. I'm interessted to see how Hangarback Walker performs here, as no real review has been made about the card. I feel he is too slow and only gets value if you have an Overseer or Rvager on oard, which is quite conditional. Maybe I'm wrong so I'll be glad to have your report!
I've been playtesting it as a two of in the sideboard and have been liking it in matches where you expect mass removal post-board. It's also surprisingly useful to get around lingering souls even though it isn't played as much now as it used to be. Haven't had the opportunity to attend any events in the past month but my online testing seems to be conclusive as of now
I would agree, again, with Kingemilien in that it completely depends on your board state. When I mentioned that I kept a Tarmogoyf at bay for a few turns, it just stayed as a blocker and at their EoT, pump! In that specific game, the walker didn't actually "do anything" proactive, but ultimately kept the Goyf from getting through while Vault Skirge chipped away (he would have been happy to get some thopter buddies ;))
So how many walkers are you guys running? And who didnt make the cut to make room for him?
Running 2 SB, 0 MB. To make that work, I cut 1 spell pierce and 1 ancient grudge. If I were to put it MB, I'd probably just swap it with the 2 spellskites that are already there.
Im thinking, for the Disciple/Blast version. Cranial Plating becomes a nonbo with the main strategy. Perhaps a slot we can replace with something else.
sorry about the delay guys, been busy with other stuff. I went 2-2 with my losses to Zoo and G/W Aggro.
R1: Naya Burn(2-1 Win)
This matchup is very dependent on their early creature + removal. G1 he just had all the burn and topdecked the win. Hangarback Walker did a good job at delaying a monastery swiftspear. G2 I landed an early Spellskite and won because of it. G3, Again another spellskite into vault skirge.
-2 Memnite
-2 Steel Overseer
-2 Signal Pest
+2 Spellpierce
+2 Whipflare
+2 Spellskite
R2: G/W Aggro(2-1 Lost)
Overall this match is simple, survive their threats and beat with fliers. G1 I get a very good opener and he cannot keep up with a cranial plated vault skirge. Hangarback walker did work here because it kept a voice/loxodon from being aggressive. G2, he had enough removal and beats to win it. G3 was a disaster, he had a timely T3 Fracturing Gust against my very fast hand.
-4 Signal Pest
-2 Memnite
-2 Steel Overseer
+2 Spell Pierce
+2 Spellskite
+2 Thoughtseize
+1 Dispatch
+1 Wear/Tear
R3: U/R Day's Delver(2-0 Win)
This is usually a simple match, but day's undoing makes our game so much better. G1 I had a slow hand but a Hangarback walker got in with some beats with a signal pest. I won by Inkmoth nexus after he snagged and bolted most of my guys. G2 was even slower, and ended with myself getting exact. He had Hurkyll's Recall(2) for these games and it is always such a time walk.
-2 Memnite
-2 Signal Pest
+2 Spell Pierce
+2 Thoughtseize
R4: Collected Zoo(2-1 Lost)
This is always a difficult matchup with the Zoo player has 2 or more removal in opening. G1 I was able to beat him with a cranial plated vault skirge. G2 He just had a nuts opener and followed up collected company into Knight of the Req which got a kessig wolf run. G3 I had a fast start but a T2 Stony Silence into T3 Kataki lost the game because I couldn't activate my spellskite to grab the kessig wolf run.
-2 Memnite
-2 Steel Overseer
-4 Signal Pest
+2 Spell Pierce
+2 Thoughtseize
+1 Dispatch
+1 Relic of Prog
+2 Spellskite
@baron_sengir_007 I think 4 etched champion main, 2 spellskite and 1 welding jar will be the best in your meta. I run the above mix and have not look back for awhile. I think it is the right direction at the moment. I also prefer to run 4 galvanic blast against the twin match-up and for reach or removal against pesky creature like Olivia.
the card itself really isn't worth the card board its printed on...does it serve a purpose? Sure its a blue 1 drop that might not be a 1/1. I would not put it in a list and expect to win a PTQ or GP though.
I have been lurking since a while here, and I want this deck so muuuuuuuuuuch! Soon, I will have enough $$$ to afford a big modern deck, I playtested Robots on Cockatrice with my buddies and it appears that I have troubles to beat my friends's decks.
I play a lot with them and I do very few tournaments (like twice a year), so I would like to know the reason why I lose versus them, is that because I don't pilot the deck well enough or it is because my meta is very hard for me? I would like to avoid spending 500$ in a deck that's awful in my meta, even if I love it...
They play Abzan Liege, Grixis Delver, B/W tokens (budget version), Zoo and Scapeshift. They have a lot of removals and flying bodies, so it's hard to run my Robots perfectly!
What do you think about theses matchups? Do you think I should "give up" building the deck for the moment?
Thanks a lot!!!
Affinity is a hard deck to pilot even though it may seem easy on the surface. It took me quite a while to play it (mostly) optimally. There are a lot of weird interactions and Arcbound Ravager shenanigans that you have to learn how to work with, I've seen my fair share of bad affinity players so you might be playing the deck wrong. Out of all the decks you listed the only deck you should have a bad matchup against is BW tokens, everything else should be favorable or approximately average.
I'd suggest watching videos of other people playing the deck and reading primers on how to play the deck before giving up on it.
@pyxyty those decks that you mentioned, can be bad match-up. Especially decks that run white because of stony silence and kataki. In this type of meta, etched champion main board is the best against them for evasion. Steel overseer also is strong as you grow your flyer if it remains on the field. Main board, you have to tweak it to suit your meta, as well as sideboard. You could consider running wear//tear in sideboard over ancient grudge if not much mirror. Run maybe illness in the rank in the sideboard. These are some practical I will do to adjust my deck to suit the meta. The deck is already strong in mainboard, you just have to find the right sideboard against the meta. Playing style might also affect your win. Learn to adjust. This is not standard rubots where you can just win with 1 creature and such. You need to think more on the synergy behind.
add on, to above comments, although affinity is an all in deck, but against certain match-up, it is not always viable to go all in. learning to control your play and tempo also plays a part. you do not always need to race to win. I think for affinity pilot to pilot this well, they will often think what is the hate cards and problem cards they faced in certain match-up. Secondly, how can they adjust their mainboard and sideboard to suit the meta. Thirdly, in this match-up, do I need to race? can I hold back? do they run sweeper? Can I bait them or bluff them? who is the control and who is the beat down? These are all critical questions that I run through my mind when I play against various match-up. Next how can I use timing and the stack to my advantage to gain resources by wasting their removal? These are key question whenever I play my deck or plan my move. these little intricacy can help to improve your play and not just play blind using a powerful deck and knocking heads. as the time goes by, people learned to adapt or understand various interaction with the deck to make more informed play. Therefore you will need to go a level higher to outsmart them or out resource them. this I learn through almost 6 months to nearly a year, playing over hundreds to thousand of game with this deck. I will not said I reach pro level, but I have learned to play better and coach some new affinity player in my play group to improve their play.
The deck is the most fun to play of all decks for me. It is a high risk high reward deck and game one is almost a guarantee win, game two and three will be a lot harder cause then the hate will come in and as we all know hate against us is pretty strong.
I can not recommend Thoughtseize more then any other card in your sideboard. It is the best anti hate we have acces to. Spell Pierce is ok but I am not a fan. We need to play proactive and not reactive so cards that make us have mana open the whole time does not make our deck any better.
Also problems with B/W tokens can easily be solved with Whipflare and Illness in the ranks in the sideboard.
Anyway just keep playing with the deck, pm watch and listen to Frank Kartsen, watch YouTube and read this forum and you will get better, I been playing it for about a year and every time I play it I get better and enjoy the deck and the game more and more.
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Legacy - Reanimator
Modern - Burn
EDH - Neheb the Eternal
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You are attributing the raw power of affinity to day's undoing. You aren't losing many games after a T1 MoE or EC.
Also I'd like to know how you cast cranial plating and arcbound and still got in with posion.
I don't think that's the wrong question at all. If it requires 2 mana just to be a 1/1 and needs one of those two cards just to be any good, how is it worth it?
Arcbound is 2 mana for 1/1 and makes spot removal pointless, creates countless interactions for you and can win games out of nowhere.
Overseer is 2 mana for 1/1 and makes all your smaller dudes bigger over time. Slightly faster than making Walker bigger over time.
I'm not seeing it yet. I'm not saying it isn't good, I just want to see it. Until then, I'm getting rid of the couple that I got with this ridiculous price spike. If it's good for modern robots, I'll get it in the future when it goes back to being sub $10.
Now that's interesting and I haven't thought of it in that way.
I think what Kingemilien is trying to say is that overseer is a good card to trade the 1-for-1 removal spells on. If left unchecked, it can take over the game pretty quickly (given you have other creatures on the board to beat with). To this point, I would rather play my overseer out before the walker because it will hopefully draw out the bolt or path so that the walker has a clear shot at getting bigger and better. If they don't handle the overseer, then it looks like you are in the clear, for the short term!
As for the blink problem, if you have a ravager out with NOTHING else (not sure how often this happens) it can have the same effect.
I've been playtesting it as a two of in the sideboard and have been liking it in matches where you expect mass removal post-board. It's also surprisingly useful to get around lingering souls even though it isn't played as much now as it used to be. Haven't had the opportunity to attend any events in the past month but my online testing seems to be conclusive as of now
WGB Traverse
GWUBAtraxa and Her Superfriends
WUB Oloro, the Life Drain Train
URG Animar, Soul of Elements
WBR Kaalia of the Vast
BWTeysa Karlov, Scion of Orzhov
R Purphoros, Goblins of Pain ($100 Budget Challenge)
U Talrand, Fun Police (Needs updating)
GWUBAtraxa and Her Superfriends
WUB Oloro, the Life Drain Train
URG Animar, Soul of Elements
WBR Kaalia of the Vast
BWTeysa Karlov, Scion of Orzhov
R Purphoros, Goblins of Pain ($100 Budget Challenge)
U Talrand, Fun Police (Needs updating)
RUG Temur Deprive Delver
BUG Sultai Deprive Delver
Running 2 SB, 0 MB. To make that work, I cut 1 spell pierce and 1 ancient grudge. If I were to put it MB, I'd probably just swap it with the 2 spellskites that are already there.
WGB Traverse
RUG Temur Deprive Delver
BUG Sultai Deprive Delver
R1: Naya Burn(2-1 Win)
This matchup is very dependent on their early creature + removal. G1 he just had all the burn and topdecked the win. Hangarback Walker did a good job at delaying a monastery swiftspear. G2 I landed an early Spellskite and won because of it. G3, Again another spellskite into vault skirge.
-2 Memnite
-2 Steel Overseer
-2 Signal Pest
+2 Spellpierce
+2 Whipflare
+2 Spellskite
R2: G/W Aggro(2-1 Lost)
Overall this match is simple, survive their threats and beat with fliers. G1 I get a very good opener and he cannot keep up with a cranial plated vault skirge. Hangarback walker did work here because it kept a voice/loxodon from being aggressive. G2, he had enough removal and beats to win it. G3 was a disaster, he had a timely T3 Fracturing Gust against my very fast hand.
-4 Signal Pest
-2 Memnite
-2 Steel Overseer
+2 Spell Pierce
+2 Spellskite
+2 Thoughtseize
+1 Dispatch
+1 Wear/Tear
R3: U/R Day's Delver(2-0 Win)
This is usually a simple match, but day's undoing makes our game so much better. G1 I had a slow hand but a Hangarback walker got in with some beats with a signal pest. I won by Inkmoth nexus after he snagged and bolted most of my guys. G2 was even slower, and ended with myself getting exact. He had Hurkyll's Recall(2) for these games and it is always such a time walk.
-2 Memnite
-2 Signal Pest
+2 Spell Pierce
+2 Thoughtseize
R4: Collected Zoo(2-1 Lost)
This is always a difficult matchup with the Zoo player has 2 or more removal in opening. G1 I was able to beat him with a cranial plated vault skirge. G2 He just had a nuts opener and followed up collected company into Knight of the Req which got a kessig wolf run. G3 I had a fast start but a T2 Stony Silence into T3 Kataki lost the game because I couldn't activate my spellskite to grab the kessig wolf run.
-2 Memnite
-2 Steel Overseer
-4 Signal Pest
+2 Spell Pierce
+2 Thoughtseize
+1 Dispatch
+1 Relic of Prog
+2 Spellskite
Counter-Cat
Colorless Eldrazi Stompy
Affinity is a hard deck to pilot even though it may seem easy on the surface. It took me quite a while to play it (mostly) optimally. There are a lot of weird interactions and Arcbound Ravager shenanigans that you have to learn how to work with, I've seen my fair share of bad affinity players so you might be playing the deck wrong. Out of all the decks you listed the only deck you should have a bad matchup against is BW tokens, everything else should be favorable or approximately average.
I'd suggest watching videos of other people playing the deck and reading primers on how to play the deck before giving up on it.
GB Midrange HomebrewBG
Modern
Affinity X
EDH
Jarad, Golgari Lich LordBG
I can not recommend Thoughtseize more then any other card in your sideboard. It is the best anti hate we have acces to. Spell Pierce is ok but I am not a fan. We need to play proactive and not reactive so cards that make us have mana open the whole time does not make our deck any better.
Also problems with B/W tokens can easily be solved with Whipflare and Illness in the ranks in the sideboard.
Anyway just keep playing with the deck, pm watch and listen to Frank Kartsen, watch YouTube and read this forum and you will get better, I been playing it for about a year and every time I play it I get better and enjoy the deck and the game more and more.
Modern - Burn
EDH - Neheb the Eternal