I dont see where the need for a aggro creature is. That is not how this deck kills your opponent. Adding creatures that dont come with an inherent ability that aids in your goal of creating some sort of hand advantage are just another 1 for 1 trade. 1 for 1 trades (aside from you getting to choose with cards like thoughtseize, iok) are bad cause you will fall behind as you wont draw a discard every turn even with ravens crime. So I dont understand the need for creatures like mentioned. It also goes against the best defense the deck has, ensnaring bridge.
So if you put another (Rack) card in the deck, how do you plan to keep up with the discard? The Rack, Shrieking Affliction, and other cards mentioned (Nezumi Shortfang, and Lavaborn Muse) aren't discard spells. Nezumi Shortfang is but it's slow and more vulnerable than using Scepter of Fugue and it's unlikely it will flip, if so you'd rather it be a Shrieking Affliction or Rack. When I was testing him, it was bummer when he would flip cause the best thing about Nezumi is he can activate his ability on your opponent's turn. The fact that he flips is what makes him unworthy of the slot.
However every time you draw them, your opponent can just hold an extra card in there hand. Which with enough missed discard draws, they will soon be safely out of Rack range, and very easily Shrieking Affliction range. So the more cards like this you add, the weaker the deck becomes.
Another thing is you WANT all your opponents Path to Exiles, Dismembers, etc etc to be dead draws. You don't want to trade 1 card (A creature) for 1 card in your opponents hand which otherwise would be worthless to them. Unless of course you play something like Ravenous Rats, in which if they do use a creature-kill spell: Ravenous Rats = Wrench Mind (w/o the artifact clause). Also they generally don't want to get pinged for 1 damage every turn (still is speeding up the clock) so they will need a creature to defend. In our book when an opponent plays a creature with this card, 2 for 1.
The top 3 creatures for this deck in my opinion are Ravenous Rats, Rotting Rats, and Augur of Skulls. Other notable creatures are Hypnotic Specter, and Oona's Prowler, but they contradict the requirement of making your opponent's kill spells dead cards but still have the effect you want otherwise.
What about splashing blue so we can run our own treasure cruise when we burn through our hands? I know it's a nonbo with bridge, but refilling our hands with lands for raven's crime or more other discard options sounds nice to me.
It absolutely cannot co-exist with Tombstalker so you have to choose between the quick finisher potential of Tombstalker or the late-game re-fueling of Treasure Cruise.
What about splashing blue so we can run our own treasure cruise when we burn through our hands? I know it's a nonbo with bridge, but refilling our hands with lands for raven's crime or more other discard options sounds nice to me.
I believe cruise was tested a bit by a few people. I don't think it's worth splashing for.
Not optimal either, but I'd rather run Waste Not against card draw as it can fuel a <*****> storm.
Does Palace Siege fit or a bit of a stretch since it costs 5 mana? Could be Rack 9-10? What do you people think?
I believe this would be a complete waste of space. Way too expensive...either win more or dead in hand. I think Bloodchief Ascension and trying to activate it with Racks/Mutavault/Syphon Life would be better....but still too slow and unreliable at this point.
So what is the current recommended list? I understand that certain cards are a given no matter what. I'm trying to build a budget version and then replace cards with their ideal counterparts as time allows. I'm trying to get a better idea of where to start, though I already have a lot of the deck. The reason I ask is because the decklist in the primer is different than the last recommended version I remember. Also, there are some cards in that list that are not discussion in the primer such as Tombstalker.
I'm a super big fan of Pack Rat. I called that ish out when he was first released and bought 8 copies at like $0.25 each or something. I cringed watching people tear copies of him in half, try to make origami out of him, and generally disgrace him at FNM during the "Trash Rare Raffle" they do at my LGS. Not that he's worth much more now but still. I think he has a fun synergy with this deck but am curious if he has fallen out of favor.
I think Bile Blight is cool tech. I find its addition exciting. The primer states that Victim of Night is still the prefered removal. Short of Goyf, Resto, and Wurmcoil, what else do we regularly see that Blight can't take care of? What, other than Dismember, is the recommended SB removal?
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I recommend the primer list. Related note: tentatively I've swapped out Tombstalkers for Waste Not. I'm still not convinced by TS; it can't reliably be cast early and that bothers me a lot. Pack Rat is terrible right now. The primer states Victim is the best kill spell in most metas, which is true. The thing is the current broad meta is not one of those metas. You can't afford any removal sb except Darkblast.
Any thoughts on the new Tasigur? Seems like a great way to block goyfs, rhinos, ect just when it gets relevant. No evasion like TS, but it is cheaper by a quite a bit and just as difficult to remove (being black, unboltable, undecayable). I say this even without alluding to the possibility of splashing for the ability.
Tasigur is actually amazing. Forget about his activated ability, the Delve makes him a black Tarmogoyf (that can occasionally hose an opposing Goyf if he is pumped by your graveyard). Of course, if you're not playing him for a single black mana it makes no sense to run that over Tombstalker.
Tasigur is actually amazing. Forget about his activated ability, the Delve makes him a black Tarmogoyf (that can occasionally hose an opposing Goyf if he is pumped by your graveyard). Of course, if you're not playing him for a single black mana it makes no sense to run that over Tombstalker.
@ 4/5 I doubt it will outclass most goyfs... at best on par with a goyf
Land, Creature, Instant, Sorcery = 4/5 Goyf alone
Currently playing in Modern:
BBB8Rack
Currently Playing in Legacy:
Foil BELCHER
"Never interrupt your opponent while he's making a mistake"
However every time you draw them, your opponent can just hold an extra card in there hand. Which with enough missed discard draws, they will soon be safely out of Rack range, and very easily Shrieking Affliction range. So the more cards like this you add, the weaker the deck becomes.
Another thing is you WANT all your opponents Path to Exiles, Dismembers, etc etc to be dead draws. You don't want to trade 1 card (A creature) for 1 card in your opponents hand which otherwise would be worthless to them. Unless of course you play something like Ravenous Rats, in which if they do use a creature-kill spell: Ravenous Rats = Wrench Mind (w/o the artifact clause). Also they generally don't want to get pinged for 1 damage every turn (still is speeding up the clock) so they will need a creature to defend. In our book when an opponent plays a creature with this card, 2 for 1.
The top 3 creatures for this deck in my opinion are Ravenous Rats, Rotting Rats, and Augur of Skulls. Other notable creatures are Hypnotic Specter, and Oona's Prowler, but they contradict the requirement of making your opponent's kill spells dead cards but still have the effect you want otherwise.
4x Polluted Delta
4x Bloodstained Mire
2x Blood Crypt
2x Dragonskull Summit
1x Dakmor Salvage
4x Thoughtseize
4x Inquisition of Kozilek
4x Raven's Crime
3x Despise
4x Wrench Mind
4x Victim of Night
4x Shrieking Affliction
4x The Rack
4x Liliana of the Veil
2x Tombstalker
4x Ensnaring Bridge
3x Darkblast
3x Surgical Extraction
3x Rakdos Charm
2x Rain of Gore
It's worse against Delver and Burn but it's giving results against Junk and Angel/Abzan Pod.
It is funny Wizards don't have the preview card up yet but LSV discusses the card at Channel Fireball.
Currently playing in Modern:
BBB8Rack
Currently Playing in Legacy:
Foil BELCHER
"Never interrupt your opponent while he's making a mistake"
Currently playing in Modern:
BBB8Rack
Currently Playing in Legacy:
Foil BELCHER
"Never interrupt your opponent while he's making a mistake"
Not to mention, we don't really need another 3 drop if it can be helped.
I believe cruise was tested a bit by a few people. I don't think it's worth splashing for.
Not optimal either, but I'd rather run Waste Not against card draw as it can fuel a <*****> storm.
Warning for censor evasion
-ktkenshinx-
I believe this would be a complete waste of space. Way too expensive...either win more or dead in hand. I think Bloodchief Ascension and trying to activate it with Racks/Mutavault/Syphon Life would be better....but still too slow and unreliable at this point.
Anyway, here is the deck I'm working towards:
2 Dakmore Salvage
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3 Mutavault
16 Swamp
4 Pack Rat
SPELLS (33)
4 Thoughtseize
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Raven's Crime
4 Wrench Mind
4 Bile Blight
3 Shrieking Affliction
2 Waste Not
4 Ensnaring Bridge
4 The Rack
I'm a super big fan of Pack Rat. I called that ish out when he was first released and bought 8 copies at like $0.25 each or something. I cringed watching people tear copies of him in half, try to make origami out of him, and generally disgrace him at FNM during the "Trash Rare Raffle" they do at my LGS. Not that he's worth much more now but still. I think he has a fun synergy with this deck but am curious if he has fallen out of favor.
I think Bile Blight is cool tech. I find its addition exciting. The primer states that Victim of Night is still the prefered removal. Short of Goyf, Resto, and Wurmcoil, what else do we regularly see that Blight can't take care of? What, other than Dismember, is the recommended SB removal?
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@ 4/5 I doubt it will outclass most goyfs... at best on par with a goyf
Land, Creature, Instant, Sorcery = 4/5 Goyf alone
Thirst for Knowledge % to hit artifact