Yep. thats how I did it too. And as for helix Its sorta a weird card. Think of it this way, its an aggro card that fights aggro/burn/tempo. If you have a ton of affinity, or rdw, this is a card you want main. Otherwise, youd want path, which is a card that fights better against midrange/control/ramp/creature combos (like twin)
So if you wanted to be more agressive you could look at something like this (a list Ive been working on, but havent tweeked in a long time)
Edit: whoops. Deleted the list. But it looked more like this:
Less midrange more aggro-midrange curve. Helix was awesome there because i could dome it if I had to, as I was aggressive.
And about knight. knight is the better card without looking at the meta, but since jund decks seem to be everywhere (if they're not for you, knights a better card) she tends to be small always. Deathrites, oozes, and others keep her pretty low currently.
Am I wrong to have noticed that qasali pridemage seems to have lost its luster as well?
Legacy demands it because of batterskull, and counter balance (and jitte a bit). Voice is basicly the same deal. 2 drop 2/2 that helps against a lot of decks.
The guy who topped 16ed the last GP speicificly said on his twitter that woolys got him there because knight was lackluster. Woolys crushs the jund matchup, I beleive were his exact words.
I've started running thoctar in the SB for a direct swop with KOTR in jund match ups. I figure if you lose game one you swop the mostly dead KOTR for some fatty thoctars and a voice plus you can usually drop a shamen or ooze before they do (because you're on the play.) If you win game one (which we often do) or against other match ups then bob's your uncle.
With that said what do you zoo keepers think about fleecemane lion as a possible main deck? I think a 3/3 for 2 and hexproof indestructible are all well and good, but the 5 mana activation could be a bit of a far cry. However once it becomes monstrous it can block goyfs for days and you can respond to removal. Could it work in the deck? Or does it change the line of play too much.
I think i might try a split of thoctar and knight. Knight is still very good in the non BGx.
fleecemain lion dies to bolt, and isn't that impressive when you untap with it (as opposed to say a mana dork that dies to bolt but if you untap with it you get to ramp into a spell).
The deck absolutely stomps BGx and UWR/Wafo, but it has trouble with Combo (hence Thalia/RIP side) and Tron (Thalia/Molten Rain). The good matchups are because of the Voices, Smiters and Leiges, and you basically never lose to liliana.
Any help/tips would be greatly appreciated. As I said, I'm not usually an aggro player, so pretty new to Naya Zoo.
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Has anyone tried playing Huntmaster of the Fells with Voice? I feel like they have a great interaction that will bring you some kind of card advantage. Or is the 4 slot strictly need to be huge beef (or lili hate)?
The deck absolutely stomps BGx and UWR/Wafo, but it has trouble with Combo (hence Thalia/RIP side) and Tron (Thalia/Molten Rain). The good matchups are because of the Voices, Smiters and Leiges, and you basically never lose to liliana.
Any help/tips would be greatly appreciated. As I said, I'm not usually an aggro player, so pretty new to Naya Zoo.
How have the Woolly Thoctar's been working out for you? I've been wanting to try them but I really don't want to lose the land toolbox. Although if they TRULY are that good, I'll try them out.
I like the usage of Deglamer in the sideboard, that's what I did when I first moved into playing Naya Zoo (after playing Gruul Zoo, where I enjoyed them quite a lot).
Has anyone tried playing Huntmaster of the Fells with Voice? I feel like they have a great interaction that will bring you some kind of card advantage. Or is the 4 slot strictly need to be huge beef (or lili hate)?
I've always thought that they would be a good combination to play together. That being said, I don't know if he'd be as impactful as other 4 slot cards.
I have been playing Boltproof Naya-Geist Zoo for quite a lot of time, every FNM Modern went great, usually 4-0 or 3-1. Our meta is full of UWR and Jund, ocassionaly Melira, Tron, Robots and Storm show up. I am the only one playing Zoo, I run 4 Woolly Thoctar and 4 Loxodon Smiter + some Swords and 2x Elspeth, Knight-Errant. It feels very good when Thoctar attacks for 8 on turn 3
So I think that if pepole arent prepared to face a 5/4 body for 3 mana, possibly on turn 2, they are just amazing. Lingering Souls are problematic sometimes, that's why I run Sword of Light and Shadow + War and Peace. When peple started to sideboard Combust, I simply showed up with Domain Zoo or DredgeVine once or twice, when they forgot about Woollys I just started to play them again.
Try them out
How did you do in the Storm matchups? And if they went, what did you board in against them?
Oh I love the thoctar's. I want to fit the 4th after the IQ (my decklist is locked for now, but I changed the SB a bit.)
I have yet to lose to UWR or BGx. Thoctar is just BIG against them, often times they 2-for-1 themselves just to deal with it, or Smiter, or Leige, then you just land another X/4.
I have yet to sideboard out Thoctars. I often SB out Gofys, Especially when I'm bringing in Thalia's. Typical SB plan against Storm for example, -4 Goyf, -1 Seal of Fire, -1 Tarfire, -1 Qasali Pridemage, +4 Rest in Peace, +3 Thalia.
Against UWR I use the same plan, but I also board out Paths and 3 bolts for 4 Molten Rain and 2 Chandra.
This deck is sweet. I'm actually having fun with a proactive creature-based game-plan, for once. Perspective widened!
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Tinfoil Hat - Thalia and Molten Rain are not very good together. I suggest replacing Molten Rain with Fulminator Mage. It doesnt cost more with Thalia out and you can reveal it to Domri.
I know this is like a month old, but I didn't see it in this thread. Zen takahashi made changes to his naya deck after his 9th place finish. I copied and pasted his deck as well as his sideboard recommendations. I also copied and pasted the link to his article, which goes into more depth about this deck and his 9th place deck.
I wish someone posted that article sooner, as it is very good. He goes over the shifting modern meta game trying to find the best deck or find a good deck to beat the metagame. It's unfortunate he played against a lot of bad match ups, but those are the breaks.
I agree that thoctar is a good card. But i've flooded out quite a bit with the deck, and I think the deck could use a 3rd specialty land after wildwood and horizon canopy.
I replaced a land and put in a wolf run, and am trying a KotR in place of the 4th Thoctar. I haven't really drawn the knight much to see if it's any good as a miser copy. Turn 2 Thoctar off a hierarch has been really good, so I'll probably cut the knight soon.
Just won a small modern tournament. I'll post my list later. Mine is a bit more aggro oriented. 4 Goblin guides and 2 Boros Charms. Feels nice smashing face with a double strike woolly thoctar/KotR..w/e. Boros charm literally wins games. Most versatile card ever. Elspeth +3 targeting Knight of the reliquary...swing for about 18 damage...yeah it happens..
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So if you wanted to be more agressive you could look at something like this (a list Ive been working on, but havent tweeked in a long time)
Edit: whoops. Deleted the list. But it looked more like this:
4 experiment one
4 loam lion
3 voice of resurgence
4 tarmogoyf
4 thoctar
3 helix
3 path
2 boros charm
Less midrange more aggro-midrange curve. Helix was awesome there because i could dome it if I had to, as I was aggressive.
And about knight. knight is the better card without looking at the meta, but since jund decks seem to be everywhere (if they're not for you, knights a better card) she tends to be small always. Deathrites, oozes, and others keep her pretty low currently.
Legacy demands it because of batterskull, and counter balance (and jitte a bit). Voice is basicly the same deal. 2 drop 2/2 that helps against a lot of decks.
With that said what do you zoo keepers think about fleecemane lion as a possible main deck? I think a 3/3 for 2 and hexproof indestructible are all well and good, but the 5 mana activation could be a bit of a far cry. However once it becomes monstrous it can block goyfs for days and you can respond to removal. Could it work in the deck? Or does it change the line of play too much.
fleecemain lion dies to bolt, and isn't that impressive when you untap with it (as opposed to say a mana dork that dies to bolt but if you untap with it you get to ramp into a spell).
60 cards
4 Arid Mesa
1 Copperline Gorge
2 Forest
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Plains
1 Razorverge Thicket
2 Sacred Foundry
1 Stirring Wildwood
2 Stomping Ground
1 Temple Garden
4 Verdant Catacombs
22 lands
4 Loxodon Smiter
4 Noble Hierarch
2 Scavenging Ooze
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Voice of Resurgence
4 Woolly Thoctar
25 creatures
2 Ajani Vengeant
3 Domri Rade
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Path to Exile
13 other spells
3 Blood Moon
2 Bonfire of the Damned
2 Combust
2 Creeping Corrosion
2 Linvala, Keeper of Silence
1 Path to Exile
3 Stony Silence
15 sideboard cards
Could Hide // Seek be cool sideboard tech against Tron?
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Voice of Resurgence
4 Tarmogoyf
1 Qasali Pridemage
4 Loxodon Smiter
3 Woolly Thoctar
4 Wilt-Leaf Liege
Planeswalkers (4):
4 Domri Rade
Instants (8):
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Path to Exile
1 Tarfire
Enchantments (1):
1 Seal of Fire
Lands (23):
1 Stomping Ground
2 Temple Garden
1 Sacred Foundry
4 Arid Mesa
2 Verdant Catacombs
4 Horizon Canopy
1 Kessig Wolf Run
1 Stirring Wildwood
1 Raging Ravine
1 Plains
2 Forest
1 Razorverge Thicket
1 Copperline Gorge
1 Mountain
4 Rest in Peace
2 Chandra, Pyromaster
4 Molten Rain
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Deglamer
The deck absolutely stomps BGx and UWR/Wafo, but it has trouble with Combo (hence Thalia/RIP side) and Tron (Thalia/Molten Rain). The good matchups are because of the Voices, Smiters and Leiges, and you basically never lose to liliana.
Any help/tips would be greatly appreciated. As I said, I'm not usually an aggro player, so pretty new to Naya Zoo.
Thanks to Rivenor for the signature and XenoNinja for the Avi!
Quotes:
Has anyone tried playing Huntmaster of the Fells with Voice? I feel like they have a great interaction that will bring you some kind of card advantage. Or is the 4 slot strictly need to be huge beef (or lili hate)?
Mimeoplasm Midrange, CHAINER CHAINER HIGH VOLTAGE
Rafiq of the Astral Slide, 67land.dec Child of Alara, Gisela <3 Sunforger
TRADE!?WUBRGMy Pauper Cube
Sek'Kuar, Deathkeeper, Phage the Uncastable, Azusa Lost but Stompy, Crosis Combo Breaker, All-In-Skullbriar, Rafiq/Jenara ETB army, Hazezon Swarm, Glissa Voltron!, Jarad Zombie Tribal, Zedruu Pillowfort, Reaper King Artifact Shenanagains
How have the Woolly Thoctar's been working out for you? I've been wanting to try them but I really don't want to lose the land toolbox. Although if they TRULY are that good, I'll try them out.
I like the usage of Deglamer in the sideboard, that's what I did when I first moved into playing Naya Zoo (after playing Gruul Zoo, where I enjoyed them quite a lot).
I've always thought that they would be a good combination to play together. That being said, I don't know if he'd be as impactful as other 4 slot cards.
How did you do in the Storm matchups? And if they went, what did you board in against them?
I have yet to lose to UWR or BGx. Thoctar is just BIG against them, often times they 2-for-1 themselves just to deal with it, or Smiter, or Leige, then you just land another X/4.
I have yet to sideboard out Thoctars. I often SB out Gofys, Especially when I'm bringing in Thalia's. Typical SB plan against Storm for example, -4 Goyf, -1 Seal of Fire, -1 Tarfire, -1 Qasali Pridemage, +4 Rest in Peace, +3 Thalia.
Against UWR I use the same plan, but I also board out Paths and 3 bolts for 4 Molten Rain and 2 Chandra.
This deck is sweet. I'm actually having fun with a proactive creature-based game-plan, for once. Perspective widened!
Thanks to Rivenor for the signature and XenoNinja for the Avi!
Quotes:
4 Noble Hierarch
3 Deathrite Shaman
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Voice of Resurgence
3 Scavenging Ooze
4 Loxodon Smiter
4 Woolly Thoctar
Spells
3 Domri Rade
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Path to Exile
Lands
4 Arid Mesa
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Razorverge Thicket
2 Sacred Foundry
2 Stomping Ground
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Copperline Gorge
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Stirring Wildwood
1 Temple Garden
2 Forest
1 Plains
3 Fulminator Mage
2 Combust
2 Stony Silence
2 Creeping Corrosion
2 Linvala, Keeper of Silence
2 Bonfire of the Damned
1 Flame Slash
1 Path to Exile
Jund/GB Rock/Junk:
Splinter Twin:
RG Tron:
UWR Control/Cruel Control:
Melira Pod/Kiki-Pod:
Affinity:
UR Delver:
Mirror:
BW Tokens:
4c Gifts (Deathrite and Knight-Butakov):
Storm:
Scapeshift:
Reanimator:
Infect:
Burn:
Gruul Aggro/Zoo:
Soul Sisters:
Merfolk:
GW Bogle:
Zoo:
http://blog.mtgmadness.com/index.php/grand-prix-brisbane-report-9th/zen-takahashi
I wish someone posted that article sooner, as it is very good. He goes over the shifting modern meta game trying to find the best deck or find a good deck to beat the metagame. It's unfortunate he played against a lot of bad match ups, but those are the breaks.
I agree that thoctar is a good card. But i've flooded out quite a bit with the deck, and I think the deck could use a 3rd specialty land after wildwood and horizon canopy.
I replaced a land and put in a wolf run, and am trying a KotR in place of the 4th Thoctar. I haven't really drawn the knight much to see if it's any good as a miser copy. Turn 2 Thoctar off a hierarch has been really good, so I'll probably cut the knight soon.