How do people who have played zoo for a while now think about big zoo? Knight/Hierarch/Smiters? I think in a heavy meta of Pod, little zoo just doesnt cut it when their kitchen finks trades with your whole deck.
Just ordered some Choke for my sideboard. At my store there are a couple guys that like to play control with a lot of blue and islands so I was thinking of just shutting there islands down so they can't cast spells anymore.
Only played one tournament and I am still learning how to use the sideboard cause I find that very hard to do in a good way.
I updated my sideboard with some simple hate cards that are good against most decks and I play 3 of each in my sideboard to keep it simple and easy for me then having a lot of cards that are two or one offs.
Anyway is Choke used by some of you guys on here or did I just order a card that is not used that much? Some tips about how to use it are really welcome to
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Legacy - Reanimator
Modern - Burn
EDH - Neheb the Eternal
For Gruul Aggro, if I have 4 Wooded Foothills and 1 Verdant Catacombs, how many lands should I run? There have been the times when I've flooded and times when I've been screwed.
After giving the Tribal Flames Zoo a try with not much success and inconsistency issues, I decided to switch my deck back to just straight Naya Zoo. This is the list I ran Monday:
Round 1: UWR Twin 0-2
Game 1 i made of a lot of good plays and got him down to 4 life, but then he comboed off and won. I thought I was playing against UWR Midrenage. Game 2 I managed to draw a lot of my sideboard cards and held them until he comboed off with petermite. I used krosan grip on his splinter twin. He later tried to combo off again with another one, but I answered it with destructive revelry. He managed to stabilize by killing most of my dudes! and then beat me down by attacking with 2 pester mites in the air. Too bad I ran out of removal early on.
Round 2 : Bye
Round 3: Junk 2-0
I'm not really sure how I pulled this one off. It's just that his removal couldn't keep up with my critters, and I shot down his lilis, scoozes, and goyfs the moment they landed. Game 2 I molten rained his only black source. Not having Anger or Bolt in his deck probably makes a difference too
Round 4 : Jund 1-2
This matchup was nothing like the Junk matchup. He got out lili early in both games I lost, edicting my creatures as he went along. I ended up going into top deck mode sooner than expected, and failed to get the removal I need for his huge scooze & goyf. On the bright side, I never saw anger once. mutagenic growth is an all-star . Might also consider putting vines of vastwood in the side.
All in all I'm really pleased with this build. I didn't run into any bad mulligans this time, and the deck played out quite consistently, so I'm happy. Off course it still needs some kinks to work out and more sideboard tweaking, but nothing major. I can't wait to try it out with the new fetches though...
Only difference was the tectonic edge for the stirring wildwood. Found that the wildwood didn't make that much of a difference.
Went 3-0-1 with an ID, and split top 4
Round 1: All in Twin 2-1
Game 1 I kept a weak hand with no removal spells, but with nacatl, smiter, knight and 4 lands. Started to flood out when he combo'd off. Brought in 2 Choke and the Linvala. Taking out the 2 Chandra's and a scavenging ooze. Game 2 I was able to apply a lot of pressure and forced him to chump with his threats. Wolf run did exactly enough damage to kill him. Game 3 he missed his 3rd land drop and I was able to put more pressure on him, without a lot of interaction.
Round 2:Scapeshift 2-0
Game one had a typical fast start and applied pressure to him, towards the end of the game, I went to bolt him end of turn and he remanded it when he had cryptic. I untapped attacked with my knight and bolted for exactly lethal. Sideboarded in 2 Thalia, 3 Blood Moon, 2 Choke and 1 Mindcesnor. Brought out 4 lightning bolts, 2 qasali pridemage, and 2 scavenging ooze. Game 2 I had a nacatl into Thalia start followed with smiter and goyf. He responded with a engineered explosives on 2, but wasen't enough when I had a mindcensor and goyf in hand.
Round 3 UB Faeries 2-1
Game one he missed his third land drop as I continued to play threats. Eventually I had than enough power to kill him. Sideboarded in 3 blood moon, 1 sword of light and shadow, and 2 bonfire of the damned, taking out 3 scavenging ooze, 2 pridemage, and 1 path to exile. Game 2 he damnationed away a nacatl and a knight, but I topdecked another knight which later died. I was able to land a blood moon but he had a basic swamp in order to cast a bitterblossom. With that blossom he was able to counter a bolt that would have put him to 4 with a sprite (I had another bolt ready to kill him). Game 3 we both mulliganed to 6, and I kept nacatl, hierarch, sword, mesa, path and bonfire. I was on the play and played a nacatl. Missed my land drop but played the hierarch and attacked. Next turn ripped a land and played the sword. Few turns later I had a lethal swing.
Round 4: Burn ID
Top 4: split
Didn't change anything except the tec edge over the wildwood. Like this more. Seriously can't wait to start playing with foothills and windswept heath.
Value is good. But Dredgevine isn't supposed to be about value. It's supposed to be about V-8; 2000 pounds of nitro boosted war vegetables. The more velocity, the better.
Modern:
DredgeVine EDH:
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Anima Standard:
In all I'm really happy with it, my biggest complaint is that I'm pretty vulnerable to Anger, but so long as I don't overcommit I should be fine. The birds may become hierarchs eventually, I need to figure out if the ability to produce R is more useful than the exalted, and I may take the spellskites out of my sideboard and replace them with... something, but I'm gonna need to test a bit more to find that out. I'll be taking it to a Modern event at my lgs some time within the next few weeks, so I'll give you my results when that happens, but until then, I'm open to any suggestions you may have.
@choke. I use it, its one of the best anti blue cards we have. Some ble decks dodge it well though. Grixis (pre on fetches anyway) used more things like darkslick shores and filter lands. Its still good vs american control because their main win con is colinade, which takes 5 lands. Against delver twin and merfolk is where its at its best though.
I perfe revelry for the flex. I mean twin is a thing, ad god forbid boogles. Storm too. I use grudge if im aganst alot of affinity or blue tron. 8rack you usually win against by attacking. Brdiges are aweful, but i run 2 pridemages, 2 grim, on top of all the burn, so i have outs even then. They have like 6 cards tops against us. You shoulf win most games.
Just ordered some Choke for my sideboard. At my store there are a couple guys that like to play control with a lot of blue and islands so I was thinking of just shutting there islands down so they can't cast spells anymore.
Only played one tournament and I am still learning how to use the sideboard cause I find that very hard to do in a good way.
I updated my sideboard with some simple hate cards that are good against most decks and I play 3 of each in my sideboard to keep it simple and easy for me then having a lot of cards that are two or one offs.
Anyway is Choke used by some of you guys on here or did I just order a card that is not used that much? Some tips about how to use it are really welcome to
For Gruul Aggro, if I have 4 Wooded Foothills and 1 Verdant Catacombs, how many lands should I run? There have been the times when I've flooded and times when I've been screwed.
Unfortunately getting flooded or screewed is part of the game, shuffling well helps though.
As for the number of lands it depends on your mana costs, I'd say 20 lands if you run mostly 1-2 drops with a couple of 3 drops (rampagers count as 2 cmc pump spells in this case =P), you may want some more if you run heavier creatures.
If you want something against 8rack i'd suggest ancient grudge so you can play it with flashback even if he makes you discard it, althought that's assuming you get a lot of those decks in your meta wich is not always the case; for artifact hate you can also consider oxidize and fracturing gust or creeping corrosion depending on your strategy.
Thanx again for the help Lantern it really helps me out a lot.
Also thanx to everyone else discussing in this thread it is making me think about my deck a lot.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Legacy - Reanimator
Modern - Burn
EDH - Neheb the Eternal
My current deck looks something like this. I would need to double-check the details for 100% accuracy. Anyways, if I go down to 20 lands, what should I add? I think I want more creatures to put in consistent damage and evolve Experiment One. I think I have more than enough burn spells. Also, I am rather skeptical on Rootbound Crag. I used to run 2, but I felt like it interfered with Kird Ape and Flinthoof Boar.
Here's what the updated mana base might look like:
I would get a 4th rampager and maybe drop flame slash for another rancor and 2 more vexing devil. Being able to tick E1 up to 4 and make your opponent have to think more is good imo.
This is the current Goyfless Gruul Blitz deck I'm testing. It's fairly consistent as is now. I'm still tweaking it and considering dropping basics for more shocks to make it more so.
I run Ooze main deck, and cut my grave hate for it. Realisticly, I could probably run a bujuka bog from knight. But more often than not the answer is tormats crypt.
As far as how often? Against zoo, alot less often than not. Some people still blindly jam it if they're more "Noobie" Truth is, grave hate only nulls about 6 cards in the deck, goyf, and snap, and even than snap can still attack and flash block, so its not awesome.
Its much better against my current zoo since I run 4 knight, 2 ooze, 4 goyf, 2 grim.
I'm curious, is there any significant reason to run Gruul Zoo over Naya Zoo? It seems to me like Naya is just the better Zoo, especially with the somewhat recent Nacatl unbanning and the Onslaught fetches getting reprinted, but I'm probably missing something. Could someone please highlight the advantages of Gruul Zoo for me?
Modern - Burn
EDH - Neheb the Eternal
[center][color=Blue]
Edric Spy and die
Azami the lady of the draw
Naya Zoo
Past decks
Orloro
sharuum the hegemond
Mono black control
splinter twin
Only played one tournament and I am still learning how to use the sideboard cause I find that very hard to do in a good way.
I updated my sideboard with some simple hate cards that are good against most decks and I play 3 of each in my sideboard to keep it simple and easy for me then having a lot of cards that are two or one offs.
Anyway is Choke used by some of you guys on here or did I just order a card that is not used that much? Some tips about how to use it are really welcome to
Modern - Burn
EDH - Neheb the Eternal
For Gruul Aggro, if I have 4 Wooded Foothills and 1 Verdant Catacombs, how many lands should I run? There have been the times when I've flooded and times when I've been screwed.
RGGruul Aggro
WSoul Sisters
WBTokens
BUGRRestore Balance
BMono-Black Infect
EDH:
RGWMayael, the Anima
GWURoon of the Hidden Realm
BDrana, Kalastria Bloodchief
[DECK: Naya Zoo]
4 Arid Mesa
4 Misty Rainforest
2 Scalding Tarn
1 Marsh Flats
2 Stomping Ground
2 Sacred Foundry
2 Temple Garden
1 Forest
1 Mountain
1 Plains
1 Raging Ravine
4 Wild Nacatl
4 Kird Ape
2 Loam Lion
3 Goblin Guide
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Ghor-Clan Rampager
1 Qasali Pridemage
2 Loxodon Smiter
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Path to Exile
2 Mutagenic Growth
4 Lightning Helix
3 Boros Charm
2 Pillar of Flame
2 Aven Mindcensor
2 Molten Rain
1 Path to Exile
1 Creeping Corrosion
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Krosan Grip
1 Combust
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Destructive Revelry
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Stony Silence
1 Forked Bolt
[/DECK]
Results: 1-2
Round 1: UWR Twin 0-2
Game 1 i made of a lot of good plays and got him down to 4 life, but then he comboed off and won. I thought I was playing against UWR Midrenage. Game 2 I managed to draw a lot of my sideboard cards and held them until he comboed off with petermite. I used krosan grip on his splinter twin. He later tried to combo off again with another one, but I answered it with destructive revelry. He managed to stabilize by killing most of my dudes! and then beat me down by attacking with 2 pester mites in the air. Too bad I ran out of removal early on.
Round 2 : Bye
Round 3: Junk 2-0
I'm not really sure how I pulled this one off. It's just that his removal couldn't keep up with my critters, and I shot down his lilis, scoozes, and goyfs the moment they landed. Game 2 I molten rained his only black source. Not having Anger or Bolt in his deck probably makes a difference too
Round 4 : Jund 1-2
This matchup was nothing like the Junk matchup. He got out lili early in both games I lost, edicting my creatures as he went along. I ended up going into top deck mode sooner than expected, and failed to get the removal I need for his huge scooze & goyf. On the bright side, I never saw anger once. mutagenic growth is an all-star . Might also consider putting vines of vastwood in the side.
All in all I'm really pleased with this build. I didn't run into any bad mulligans this time, and the deck played out quite consistently, so I'm happy. Off course it still needs some kinks to work out and more sideboard tweaking, but nothing major. I can't wait to try it out with the new fetches though...
4 Misty Rainforest
2 Scalding Tarn
1 Marsh Flats
2 Stomping Ground
2 Sacred Foundry
2 Temple Garden
1 Forest
1 Mountain
1 Plains
1 Raging Ravine
4 Wild Nacatl
4 Kird Ape
2 Loam Lion
3 Goblin Guide
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Ghor-Clan Rampager
1 Qasali Pridemage
2 Loxodon Smiter
3 Path to Exile
2 Mutagenic Growth
4 Lightning Helix
3 Boros Charm
2 Pillar of Flame
2 Aven Mindcensor
2 Molten Rain
1 Path to Exile
1 Creeping Corrosion
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Krosan Grip
1 Combust
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Destructive Revelry
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Stony Silence
1 Forked Bolt
This week was a gpt
List:
4 Arid Mesa
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Marsh Flats
2 Stomping Ground
1 Temple Garden
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Kessig Wolf Run
1 Tectonic Edge
2 Forest
1 Plains
4 Wild Nacatl
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Scavenging Ooze
4 Qasali Pridemage
4 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Loxodon Smiter
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
Spells 10
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Path to Exile
2 Chandra, Pyromaster
3 Stony Silence
2 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Blood Moon
2 Choke
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
1 Aven Mindcensor
1 Linvala, Keeper of Silence
2 Bonfire of the Damned
Only difference was the tectonic edge for the stirring wildwood. Found that the wildwood didn't make that much of a difference.
Went 3-0-1 with an ID, and split top 4
Round 1: All in Twin 2-1
Game 1 I kept a weak hand with no removal spells, but with nacatl, smiter, knight and 4 lands. Started to flood out when he combo'd off. Brought in 2 Choke and the Linvala. Taking out the 2 Chandra's and a scavenging ooze. Game 2 I was able to apply a lot of pressure and forced him to chump with his threats. Wolf run did exactly enough damage to kill him. Game 3 he missed his 3rd land drop and I was able to put more pressure on him, without a lot of interaction.
Round 2:Scapeshift 2-0
Game one had a typical fast start and applied pressure to him, towards the end of the game, I went to bolt him end of turn and he remanded it when he had cryptic. I untapped attacked with my knight and bolted for exactly lethal. Sideboarded in 2 Thalia, 3 Blood Moon, 2 Choke and 1 Mindcesnor. Brought out 4 lightning bolts, 2 qasali pridemage, and 2 scavenging ooze. Game 2 I had a nacatl into Thalia start followed with smiter and goyf. He responded with a engineered explosives on 2, but wasen't enough when I had a mindcensor and goyf in hand.
Round 3 UB Faeries 2-1
Game one he missed his third land drop as I continued to play threats. Eventually I had than enough power to kill him. Sideboarded in 3 blood moon, 1 sword of light and shadow, and 2 bonfire of the damned, taking out 3 scavenging ooze, 2 pridemage, and 1 path to exile. Game 2 he damnationed away a nacatl and a knight, but I topdecked another knight which later died. I was able to land a blood moon but he had a basic swamp in order to cast a bitterblossom. With that blossom he was able to counter a bolt that would have put him to 4 with a sprite (I had another bolt ready to kill him). Game 3 we both mulliganed to 6, and I kept nacatl, hierarch, sword, mesa, path and bonfire. I was on the play and played a nacatl. Missed my land drop but played the hierarch and attacked. Next turn ripped a land and played the sword. Few turns later I had a lethal swing.
Round 4: Burn ID
Top 4: split
Didn't change anything except the tec edge over the wildwood. Like this more. Seriously can't wait to start playing with foothills and windswept heath.
Modern:
DredgeVine
EDH:
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Anima
Standard:
4 Wild Nacatl
4 Birds of Paradise
2 Scavenging Ooze
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Qasali Pridemage
3 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Loxodon Smiter
Instants
4 Path to Exile
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Lightning Helix
Planeswalkers
2 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
2 Chandra, Pyromaster
3 Windswept Heath
3 Wooded Foothills
2 Arid Mesa
2 Temple Garden
2 Stomping Ground
1 Sacred Foundry
2 Kessig Wolf Run
1 Stirring Wildwood
3 Plains
2 Forest
1 Mountain
2 Tormod's Crypt
2 Stony Silence
2 Spellskite
1 Torpor Orb
2 Fulminator Mage
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
3 Leyline of Sanctity
2 Thrun, the Last Troll
In all I'm really happy with it, my biggest complaint is that I'm pretty vulnerable to Anger, but so long as I don't overcommit I should be fine. The birds may become hierarchs eventually, I need to figure out if the ability to produce R is more useful than the exalted, and I may take the spellskites out of my sideboard and replace them with... something, but I'm gonna need to test a bit more to find that out. I'll be taking it to a Modern event at my lgs some time within the next few weeks, so I'll give you my results when that happens, but until then, I'm open to any suggestions you may have.
Typin on my phone so bare with me.
@choke. I use it, its one of the best anti blue cards we have. Some ble decks dodge it well though. Grixis (pre on fetches anyway) used more things like darkslick shores and filter lands. Its still good vs american control because their main win con is colinade, which takes 5 lands. Against delver twin and merfolk is where its at its best though.
I perfe revelry for the flex. I mean twin is a thing, ad god forbid boogles. Storm too. I use grudge if im aganst alot of affinity or blue tron. 8rack you usually win against by attacking. Brdiges are aweful, but i run 2 pridemages, 2 grim, on top of all the burn, so i have outs even then. They have like 6 cards tops against us. You shoulf win most games.
Gruul mana base? 5 fetches, 4 stomps, 2 forest, 1 mountain, 4 copperlines, 4 rootbound.
That is a lot of sideboard 1 ofs forest! Whats your meta look like? Maybe we can tune the deck with more focused answers:
Also thanx to everyone else discussing in this thread it is making me think about my deck a lot.
Modern - Burn
EDH - Neheb the Eternal
4x Burning-Tree Emissary
4x Experiment One
4x Flinthoof Boar
3x Ghor-Clan Rampager
4x Goblin Guide
4x Kird Ape
2x Scavenging Ooze
1x Vexing Devil
Enchantment (2)
2x Rancor
4x Copperline Gorge
7x Forest
6x Mountain
4x Stomping Ground
1x Verdant Catacombs
Instant (6)
2x Burst Lightning
4x Lightning Bolt
Sorcery (4)
2x Flame Slash
2x Pillar of Flame
2x Ancient Grudge
2x Arc Trail
2x Blood Moon
3x Combust
1x Destructive Revelry
2x Kitchen Finks
1x Ratchet Bomb
2x Vines of Vastwood
My current deck looks something like this. I would need to double-check the details for 100% accuracy. Anyways, if I go down to 20 lands, what should I add? I think I want more creatures to put in consistent damage and evolve Experiment One. I think I have more than enough burn spells. Also, I am rather skeptical on Rootbound Crag. I used to run 2, but I felt like it interfered with Kird Ape and Flinthoof Boar.
Here's what the updated mana base might look like:
4x Copperline Gorge
3x Forest
4x Mountain
4x Stomping Ground
4x Wooded Foothills
1x Verdant Catacombs
RGGruul Aggro
WSoul Sisters
WBTokens
BUGRRestore Balance
BMono-Black Infect
EDH:
RGWMayael, the Anima
GWURoon of the Hidden Realm
BDrana, Kalastria Bloodchief
4x Burning-tree Emmissary
4x Experiment one
4x Flinthoof Boar
4x Ghor-clan Rampager
4x Kird ape
3x Vexing Devil
4x Wild Nacatl
4x Lightning Bolt
4x Lightning Helix
3x Path to exil
Land
3x Arid mesa
3x Forest
2x mountain
1x Plains
1x Sacred foundry
3x Stomping ground
1x Temple garden
4x Wooded Foothills
This is the current Goyfless Gruul Blitz deck I'm testing. It's fairly consistent as is now. I'm still tweaking it and considering dropping basics for more shocks to make it more so.
Follow the link for nice cheap clothing.
Playing:
Death's Shadow Jund
Played:
Kiki Chord, Zoo variants, Goblins, Burn
Also, if you're running Grim Lavamancer in the side, when would you board that in?
Thanks
As far as how often? Against zoo, alot less often than not. Some people still blindly jam it if they're more "Noobie" Truth is, grave hate only nulls about 6 cards in the deck, goyf, and snap, and even than snap can still attack and flash block, so its not awesome.
Its much better against my current zoo since I run 4 knight, 2 ooze, 4 goyf, 2 grim.
Follow the link for nice cheap clothing.
Playing:
Death's Shadow Jund
Played:
Kiki Chord, Zoo variants, Goblins, Burn
4x Wild Nacatl
4x Loam Lion
4x Kird Ape
2x Grim Lavamancer
4x Eidolon of the Great Revel
4x Tarmogoyf
2x Ghor-Clan Rampager
Instants
2x Mutagenic Growth
4x Lightning Bolt
4x Path to Exile
3x Boros Charm
3x Lightning Helix
3x Windswept Heath
3x Arid Mesa
4x Wooded Foothills
3x Stomping Ground
3x Sacred Foundry
1x Temple Garden
1x Mountain
1x Forest
1x Plains
2x Gaddock Teeg
2x Thalia
1x Lightning Helix
2x Combust
2x Destructive Revelry
2x Ancient Grudge
2x Molten Rain
2x Scavenging Ooze
My Zoo list as it stands now. Curious what you guys think?