If your happy with skyhooks and javiloneers, the only suggestion I would make is cut aegis, fire walker and gods willing to put 2 auriok champion, an additional spellskite, and perhaps a mark of asylum there. Ethersworn canonist should be eidolon of rhetoric as well. I like the list though, I imagines it's quite solid! There are some non budget options you could do, but I'd try and replace a javiloneer with a resto first. I ran four wisp one resto a long time and was quite happy!
Thanks for the response. These seem like good suggestions. I'm gonna stick with the cheap creatures for now but I'll look to trade for a Resto or two, it's such a strong creature so it's something I'm hoping to add in the long run.
Excellent Primer! Some great new material to study up on. I like the stuff about the different match-ups and things to board in, but I was wondering would you like to write something about what to board out, and how much to board in? I find it very important with this deck, and it's mostly a meta call, and the meta changes a lot, but some guidelines would be most appreciated.
Excellent Primer! Some great new material to study up on. I like the stuff about the different match-ups and things to board in, but I was wondering would you like to write something about what to board out, and how much to board in? I find it very important with this deck, and it's mostly a meta call, and the meta changes a lot, but some guidelines would be most appreciated.
It's tough cause that changes a lot variant by variant and deck list by deck list. That's why I opted for general suggestions for what i considered key match ups. What I think I will do is add a section with sample sideboards as a general reference for people. I'm sure if you post your list though I will be able to help!
So, I am working on a B/W list for Modern, and while I feel like I have the maindeck more or less to my liking, I'm not sure what a good sideboard would be for a typical local tournament.
I've been pretty happy with Temple of Silence, and I'm a little surprised that the scrylands haven't been mentioned in the primer up until now; since this deck typically has very little card draw and selection, shipping a redundant Aether Vial or land to the bottom can be just as good as drawing a card in a lot of situations, and with so few things to do on turn 1, it can often be just better than dropping a tapped Godless Shrine.
What I am not so sure about is what a good sideboard would be. Right now, the cards I know need to be in are:
I have run BW death and taxes for quite a while, and tried it in an awful lot of different permutations. No matter what I do though, my side ends up looking like this:
2 Orzhov Pontiff
2 Dismember
1 Burrenton Forge-Tender
1 Mark of Asylum
2 Spellskite
1 Pithing needle
1 EIdolon of Rhetoric
2 Rest in Peace
2 Stony Silence
1 Engineered Explosive
Personally, I don't think we can afford temple of silence. Not hitting that turn 2 sculler hurts us something fierce. I have a mini section at the end of the primer showing my BW build I am currently running, but you have chosen to go a slightly different route. I do not leave home without orzhov pontiff somewhere in my 75 though. It's too good. And NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER cut Flickerwisp. It's the best card in the deck, hands down. Also don't run athreos and bob together. If you wanna use athreos, you run messenger and fulminator. If you wanna run bob, you lower your curve and supplement with life gain. All in all, I would -2 thoughtseize, -1 Athreos, -1 spellskite, +1 Flickerwisp, +1 Dark confidant, +2 inquistor exarch. Spellskite is nice, but with so many twin decks running twisted image, it's not the best choice right now. All in all you've mish mashed 2 different BW decks and the Mono white deck together, you have to sort out your divergent strategies and not try and do everything at once.
While Spellskite is useful against Twin, I don't think the prevalence of Twisted Image by that deck detracts from the good it does in other matches; in particular, I have found the greatest use for Spellskite is in redirecting Lightning Bolts and Path to Exiles that get sent out against my Thalia, Confidant, and Tidehollow, not necessarily on just being an anti-Twin card. So, I feel we have to disagree on maindeck Spellskite.
Do you think that Inquisitor Exarch does a better job than Suture Priest at lifegain? It seems like with Flickerwisp triggers and Restoration Angels, it's fairly easy to trigger 4-5 life off a single Suture Priest in one game without having to flicker the Exarch specifically. Plus, 1W is a fair amount easier to hit than WW, given the amount of colorless sources in the deck.
I think what I'm most worried about in theory and testing is getting rolled over by Merfolk or Affinity, neither of which care much about search hate and both of which can assemble a board presence ahead of our disruption. I wonder if something such as Sunlance is necessary to deal with these decks, or if the deck does better in practice than my limited testing has shown?
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Suture priest is nice, but it doesn't have the same impact as exarch on cast and being a 2/2 is very relevant for us. Spellskite is a great card, not gonna argue that and those are good reasons to keep it. As far as affinity goes, run stony silence (probably bring it up to a three of) and an EE. That'll hurt em bad. Against merfolk, side out your vials, and in 2 stony silence, one or two EE. Side out the arbiters for two pontiff and 2 dismember. This will shut em down good if you use removal on lords and wipe with pontiffs bouncing and EE.
As a side note, don't run sunlance in the BW version. Dismember is much more important since we can dodge the life loss and we have trouble with fatties.
With these steps taken, neither match up should be bad, ESPECIALLY affinity. The hard part with affinity is knowing what hand you can keep. ALWAYS side aethers for stony in both match ups though.
If you want further options for sides against them, they're included in the primer under the sideboard in key match ups section! It's worth noting spellskite is quite nice in the merfolk match up as well, and is a good side vs affinity.
I think you have the wrong Akroma in the G/W list though.
Fury is correct, not Wrath. It's played as a Morph (2/2 for 3), and then "flipped" via Flickerwisp or Restoration Angel blinking, which returns it face-up by default.
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One other thing that I am worried about is that there's no all-encompassing answer to any random problem permanent, such as Abrupt Decay or Cryptic Comannd do in their respective decks. I note from the old primer that Mangara is too slow for today's Modern metagame, but would an Oblivion Ring effect be fair to have access to in the 75?
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I wonder what happened with the banner that someone was going to design for us.
I do as well. I like how its come together though, I might take a gander at some of the other primers later to see how this one measures up. Again, thanks for all your work!
O rings good if you want that kind of effect, (I even ran it myself a while) but I think it's better to keep narrow meta answers in the board. This deck succeeds on the back of meta knowledge, there just isn't any way around it.
Lovely stuff.
Do people really have that much difficulty with boggle?
I found it winnable + as a match- thalia is a pain and a half. They search, and have little mana. G1 can be rough on the draw if they get a dream hand, but their deck can really mulligan a lot and end up with a single land. A t2 thalia is really hard for them.
I use both skites x2 and runed halo 2 in the board (also great vs twin).
I do use pridemages main deck, which means I can take out key auras. But I would have it as one of the better Gw matches.
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The match ups are old analysis from back in the day I think. Affinity really isn't a bad match up either. Bogles can be tough, but an EE set to one and a Thalia, along with our land destruction, tends to be tough on them, not even mentioning how spellskite wrecks their game. I do have to say though, not a fan of runed halo. It's one of those cards that looks like it should be better than it is. I dunno, just never really got me there.
I do as well. I like how its come together though, I might take a gander at some of the other primers later to see how this one measures up.
Check the EDH Primers. Some of them are pretty elaborate and pleasant to read.
Oh wow. Yea I guess once I have all the information properly down here, I have my work cut out for me format wise haha. That kozilek, butcher of truth edh primer is like reading a book! It's absolutely beautiful haha. This will require a fair amount of playing around, but something like that would be really neat.
Oh wow. Yea I guess once I have all the information properly down here, I have my work cut out for me format wise haha. That kozilek, butcher of truth edh primer is like reading a book! It's absolutely beautiful haha. This will require a fair amount of playing around, but something like that would be really neat.
Yea, I was quite intimidated when I saw his myself. I can ask him for some coding and formatting tips.
Small correction, I noticed that in your primer, in the 4cc+ section, you misspelled Akroma as Akroma, Angle of Fury (instead of Angel). Now, while I'd love to play an Angle of Fury, anyone who does so is either making an acute play or else is feeling a bit obtuse.
On another note, I noticed that in the primer, the UWR matchup is somewhat unfavorable. Do you have suggestions or any particular matchup notes that you've found to be helpful in your experiences against the deck?
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Thanks for the response. These seem like good suggestions. I'm gonna stick with the cheap creatures for now but I'll look to trade for a Resto or two, it's such a strong creature so it's something I'm hoping to add in the long run.
It's tough cause that changes a lot variant by variant and deck list by deck list. That's why I opted for general suggestions for what i considered key match ups. What I think I will do is add a section with sample sideboards as a general reference for people. I'm sure if you post your list though I will be able to help!
Here's what I have right now:
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Tidehollow Sculler
4 Leonin Arbiter
2 Dark Confidant
1 Spellskite
2 Kitchen Finks
2 Aven Mindcensor
1 Athreos, God of Passage
3 Flickerwisp
2 Restoration Angel
4 Path to Exile
1 Dismember
2 Thoughtseize
5 Plains
1 Swamp
4 Godless Shrine
4 Ghost Quarter
2 Tectonic Edge
1 Eiganjo Castle
1 Shizo, Death's Storehouse
2 Temple of Silence
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Vault of the Archangel
1 Caves of Koilos
I've been pretty happy with Temple of Silence, and I'm a little surprised that the scrylands haven't been mentioned in the primer up until now; since this deck typically has very little card draw and selection, shipping a redundant Aether Vial or land to the bottom can be just as good as drawing a card in a lot of situations, and with so few things to do on turn 1, it can often be just better than dropping a tapped Godless Shrine.
What I am not so sure about is what a good sideboard would be. Right now, the cards I know need to be in are:
1 Dismember
2 Thoughtseize
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
2 Stony Silence
But this leaves me with seven slots to work with. What are your suggestions?
Went to a new shop from a friend's recommendation, DQ'ed for willful violation of CR 100.6b.
Have played duals? I have PucaPoints for them!
(Credit to DarkNightCavalier)
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Modern:
- GW Birthing Pod(?)
Legacy:
- UWR Delver
2 Orzhov Pontiff
2 Dismember
1 Burrenton Forge-Tender
1 Mark of Asylum
2 Spellskite
1 Pithing needle
1 EIdolon of Rhetoric
2 Rest in Peace
2 Stony Silence
1 Engineered Explosive
Personally, I don't think we can afford temple of silence. Not hitting that turn 2 sculler hurts us something fierce. I have a mini section at the end of the primer showing my BW build I am currently running, but you have chosen to go a slightly different route. I do not leave home without orzhov pontiff somewhere in my 75 though. It's too good. And NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER cut Flickerwisp. It's the best card in the deck, hands down. Also don't run athreos and bob together. If you wanna use athreos, you run messenger and fulminator. If you wanna run bob, you lower your curve and supplement with life gain. All in all, I would -2 thoughtseize, -1 Athreos, -1 spellskite, +1 Flickerwisp, +1 Dark confidant, +2 inquistor exarch. Spellskite is nice, but with so many twin decks running twisted image, it's not the best choice right now. All in all you've mish mashed 2 different BW decks and the Mono white deck together, you have to sort out your divergent strategies and not try and do everything at once.
Thanks! It's a work in progress still, but I do believe it's getting there, and is at the very least leagues ahead of the old primer haha.
Do you think that Inquisitor Exarch does a better job than Suture Priest at lifegain? It seems like with Flickerwisp triggers and Restoration Angels, it's fairly easy to trigger 4-5 life off a single Suture Priest in one game without having to flicker the Exarch specifically. Plus, 1W is a fair amount easier to hit than WW, given the amount of colorless sources in the deck.
I think what I'm most worried about in theory and testing is getting rolled over by Merfolk or Affinity, neither of which care much about search hate and both of which can assemble a board presence ahead of our disruption. I wonder if something such as Sunlance is necessary to deal with these decks, or if the deck does better in practice than my limited testing has shown?
Went to a new shop from a friend's recommendation, DQ'ed for willful violation of CR 100.6b.
Have played duals? I have PucaPoints for them!
(Credit to DarkNightCavalier)
$tandard: Too poor.
Modern:
- GW Birthing Pod(?)
Legacy:
- UWR Delver
As a side note, don't run sunlance in the BW version. Dismember is much more important since we can dodge the life loss and we have trouble with fatties.
With these steps taken, neither match up should be bad, ESPECIALLY affinity. The hard part with affinity is knowing what hand you can keep. ALWAYS side aethers for stony in both match ups though.
If you want further options for sides against them, they're included in the primer under the sideboard in key match ups section! It's worth noting spellskite is quite nice in the merfolk match up as well, and is a good side vs affinity.
I think you have the wrong Akroma in the G/W list though.
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Fury is correct, not Wrath. It's played as a Morph (2/2 for 3), and then "flipped" via Flickerwisp or Restoration Angel blinking, which returns it face-up by default.
-----
One other thing that I am worried about is that there's no all-encompassing answer to any random problem permanent, such as Abrupt Decay or Cryptic Comannd do in their respective decks. I note from the old primer that Mangara is too slow for today's Modern metagame, but would an Oblivion Ring effect be fair to have access to in the 75?
Went to a new shop from a friend's recommendation, DQ'ed for willful violation of CR 100.6b.
Have played duals? I have PucaPoints for them!
(Credit to DarkNightCavalier)
$tandard: Too poor.
Modern:
- GW Birthing Pod(?)
Legacy:
- UWR Delver
Nope it's right. It's exactly how Drifting said, a little gimmicky for my tastes but gets the job done well.
I do as well. I like how its come together though, I might take a gander at some of the other primers later to see how this one measures up. Again, thanks for all your work!
O rings good if you want that kind of effect, (I even ran it myself a while) but I think it's better to keep narrow meta answers in the board. This deck succeeds on the back of meta knowledge, there just isn't any way around it.
Do people really have that much difficulty with boggle?
I found it winnable + as a match- thalia is a pain and a half. They search, and have little mana. G1 can be rough on the draw if they get a dream hand, but their deck can really mulligan a lot and end up with a single land. A t2 thalia is really hard for them.
I use both skites x2 and runed halo 2 in the board (also great vs twin).
I do use pridemages main deck, which means I can take out key auras. But I would have it as one of the better Gw matches.
Reprint Opt for Modern!!
FREE DIG THOROUGH TIME!
PLAY MORE ROUGE DECKS!
Oh wow. Yea I guess once I have all the information properly down here, I have my work cut out for me format wise haha. That kozilek, butcher of truth edh primer is like reading a book! It's absolutely beautiful haha. This will require a fair amount of playing around, but something like that would be really neat.
Reprint Opt for Modern!!
FREE DIG THOROUGH TIME!
PLAY MORE ROUGE DECKS!
On another note, I noticed that in the primer, the UWR matchup is somewhat unfavorable. Do you have suggestions or any particular matchup notes that you've found to be helpful in your experiences against the deck?
Went to a new shop from a friend's recommendation, DQ'ed for willful violation of CR 100.6b.
Have played duals? I have PucaPoints for them!
(Credit to DarkNightCavalier)
$tandard: Too poor.
Modern:
- GW Birthing Pod(?)
Legacy:
- UWR Delver