Hey all. Thanks so much to everyone who has contributed their wisdom to this thread; I too have recently picked up the event deck, and this thread has helped a lot in refining the list. I have a couple questions though:
Why does no one run Smallpox? It seems like it would fit in well, and be a potentially powerful answer to Bogles, Etched Champion, and any deck that looks to put one important threat into play. It even gets around Leyline of Sanctity. Also, I feel like our deck wouldn't care about the effect very much, since we have tons of interchangeable creatures, we already try to rip apart people's hands, we can discard lingering souls, and we have a very low curve so we need fewer lands. I still think it's just a sideboard card, but it seems good there.
What do people think of Hushwing Gryff? It's basically a Torpor Orb on legs... er, wings, for only 1 more mana. That makes it a clock, and a pretty good one with all our copies of Honor of the Pure. Seems pretty good against Pod and Twin decks, and reasonable against UWR for turning off Snapcaster Mage and Restoration Angel.
Could someone explain why Stony Silence is better than Kataki, War's Wage? Is it just because it has applications against Tron as well as Affinity? It seems like Kataki would be the better option in the Affinity matchup. I'm new to modern though, so maybe I'm just not evaluating things properly.
Stain the Mind seems like an ideal sideboard card if you're worried about combo. Turn 3-4 stain removes their ability to combo, and then we win the fair fight. It seems like the only real way to hose Scapeshift, because we can just rip Scapeshift out well before they hit the necessary 7 lands. Thoughtseize and Inquisition of Kozilek can lead in to the crucial Stain the Mind by taking countermagic.
Edit: I'm thinking of running the deck like this. How does it look? Can anyone give me any clues on what matchups this version will be better against, and what matchups I will struggle with?
The lands are budget, I admit. I might pick up godless shrines and/or Fetid Heaths, but sadly not fetches. For Planeswalkers, I wanted a couple more finishers (in addition to the Heroes), and I like having 2 different walkers, because they do different things for me. Knight-Errant seems way better than Tirel when there are Mirran Crusaders and Heroes of Bladehold in the deck; do people with more experience think that's a correct evaluation? I put in the crusaders (and took out intangible virtue) to diversify the deck a bit, and to give a game-1 edge against black and green decks (so I could tailor my board more to beating other things, like combo, tron, and affinity). Seem reasonable? Any obvious changes that should be made?
@Guerte:
Your meta may vary, but in the (admittedly limited) experience I've had playing the deck I'd suggest:
Swap one of your honor of the pure for a fourth intangible virtue. Pumping your non-tokens is nice, but rarely super relevant (especially since they're all outside of bolt range already); vigilance for your token army can be huge though by allowing you to swing with enough tokens to swarm around blockers and still have lots of (your own) blocking options.
Zealous persecution can be super strong against decks that run lots of 1-toughness guys (affinity, delver, pod, mirror matches, even Bobs and bogles); in my meta at least I'm almost always happy to see it and would consider playing 4.
4 is a lot of windbrisks, and 24 lands might be more land than the deck needs with such a low curve. I'd consider just cutting one.
yeah. The primer could mention some of the different types of B/W Token decks such as...
The one with around 12 creatures (Including Squadren Hawk) and 3 or so swords
The version that is very heavy discard (Castigate Ravens Crime) and then wins with a few tokens
The version that acts a lot like hatebears
I don't know the names
I'm going off topic a bit, but the one that acts like Hatebears is loosely called Modern Deadguy Ale. It's a midrange deck, and has its own page here. It's definitely our sister deck. I started brewing a version of it around Christmas, and then later found the post. I'm not a huge fan of BW token's dependence on Anthems to win (which is why I was brewing a BW Midrange), and I think it may prove to be more competitive than BW tokens. It's been mention by a few pros (including our primary spokesman, Craig Wescoe). The forum regulars should definitely check it out. The playset of Bob's does make it pricey.
I'm struggling with a good way to do this that doesn't clog the primer. It's very tough to distinguish true "varients", rather than "I'm using a slightly different pile of cards". You specifically mention the squadron hawk and castigate decks. To me, they are just stock decks, heavily tilted with cards from the "alternative" list. Neither are a "better" form of BW tokens, but rather a form of tokens crafted around specific metas. For example, Craig Wescoe made a squadron hawk token deck to fight zoo in Pro Tour Born of the Gods.
I think the best approach is to focus the primer on card discussion, and focus the forum on deck construction and tuning. However, if a variant proves to be winning consistently, or gets a pro-level endorsement, I can add it to the primer.
There was also the recommendation of doing a "featured deck" section, which I like. I can easily add a spoiler to the bottom and include it. If you see something that's "feature deck" worthy (won a noteworthy event), or you're deck performs well and you want to brag, PM me, and I'll look it over. I aim to update the primer every 2ish weeks.
Hey all. Thanks so much to everyone who has contributed their wisdom to this thread; I too have recently picked up the event deck, and this thread has helped a lot in refining the list. I have a couple questions though:
Why does no one run Smallpox? It seems like it would fit in well, and be a potentially powerful answer to Bogles, Etched Champion, and any deck that looks to put one important threat into play. It even gets around Leyline of Sanctity. Also, I feel like our deck wouldn't care about the effect very much, since we have tons of interchangeable creatures, we already try to rip apart people's hands, we can discard lingering souls, and we have a very low curve so we need fewer lands. I still think it's just a sideboard card, but it seems good there.
What do people think of Hushwing Gryff? It's basically a Torpor Orb on legs... er, wings, for only 1 more mana. That makes it a clock, and a pretty good one with all our copies of Honor of the Pure. Seems pretty good against Pod and Twin decks, and reasonable against UWR for turning off Snapcaster Mage and Restoration Angel.
Could someone explain why Stony Silence is better than Kataki, War's Wage? Is it just because it has applications against Tron as well as Affinity? It seems like Kataki would be the better option in the Affinity matchup. I'm new to modern though, so maybe I'm just not evaluating things properly.
Stain the Mind seems like an ideal sideboard card if you're worried about combo. Turn 3-4 stain removes their ability to combo, and then we win the fair fight. It seems like the only real way to hose Scapeshift, because we can just rip Scapeshift out well before they hit the necessary 7 lands. Thoughtseize and Inquisition of Kozilek can lead in to the crucial Stain the Mind by taking countermagic.
Edit: I'm thinking of running the deck like this. How does it look? Can anyone give me any clues on what matchups this version will be better against, and what matchups I will struggle with?
The lands are budget, I admit. I might pick up godless shrines and/or Fetid Heaths, but sadly not fetches. For Planeswalkers, I wanted a couple more finishers (in addition to the Heroes), and I like having 2 different walkers, because they do different things for me. Knight-Errant seems way better than Tirel when there are Mirran Crusaders and Heroes of Bladehold in the deck; do people with more experience think that's a correct evaluation? I put in the crusaders (and took out intangible virtue) to diversify the deck a bit, and to give a game-1 edge against black and green decks (so I could tailor my board more to beating other things, like combo, tron, and affinity). Seem reasonable? Any obvious changes that should be made?
Thanks for the help!
Small Pox is super crippling for us, too. We do need the land, we don't draw (so loosing a card sucks), and for the same price we can just play a targeted discard spell. For Boggles, dodge leyline with Engineered Explosives.
Stony Silence hits more matches, and has the benefit of turning off their deck almost entirely. Kataki is crazy crippling, but not a road block. They can still pay the fee for 3 artifacts, and kill you with an etched champion wielding cranial platting. Stony Silence, on the other hand, wouldn't let them equip the platting.
Deck list looks solid. You may not want 4 Windbrisk Heights, and I recommend a Ghost Quarter or 2, just in case. Tirel is the best. It's important to understand that Elspeth Tirel is not designed to create explosive finishes, she's a board stabilizer, and can turn around the game. Knight-Errant and Sorin are great at maintaining an already good board. If you're falling behind, they will not help you. As for sideboard, what do you know about the meta? Relic of Progenitus generally isn't worth it over Rest in Peace. I go into some explanation in the primer, but it's all relative to meta.
I see your point with the land destruction from Smallpox. I've been playtesting, and our deck is more mana-hungry than I was expecting. So if I can't afford Liliana of the Veil and I don't have ways to blow up Leyline of Sanctity (to use edicts), are the only feasible ways to fight bogles either Engineered Explosives or Runed Halo? Of those two, which is generally more useful?
All right, I buy the argument for Stony Silence, especially because I realized how many of their mana producers are artifacts. Am I right in thinking it turns off things like Darksteel Citadel and Mox Opal? Still... do you think it's better to have 3 Stony Silence, or two of those and a single Kataki, War's Wage? Stony doesn't do much if Cranial Plating is already on something, whereas Kataki will always have a dramatic effect. I also sort of figure I'd rather draw one of each than two Stony, but I also see the argument for playing 3 Stony so you draw the first one as consistently as possible, especially since it's also good in other matchups.
I have a similar question with Relic of Progenitus versus Rest in Peace. Let's assume I want 3 graveyard hosers, and I know I like Rest more than Relic. However, is it better to go all-in with 3 Rest, or is it better to hedge and have 2 Rest and 1 Relic? My thought, again, is I would rather draw 1 of each, because at least Relic can cycle itself. One thing to consider is that they have different implications in different matchups. Rest in Peace hoses storm, while Relic of Progenitus, being nicer towards our own Lingering Souls might be a viable sideboard card where only light graveyard hate is needed, such as against american control.
I see your point about both Windbrisk Heights and Ghost Quarter (which seems to be the preference over Tectonic Edge). What would you think about swapping out 2 Windbrisk and 2 Swamp for 2 Ghost and 2 Temple of Silence? More generally, is there some particular number of white or black sources that people think is ideal?
Last point. I'm still not on the Elspeth Tirel bandwagon. Maybe I just have to play with her. But hear me out. First, Tirel's + ability does nothing when you're behind (i.e. when you have no, or few, tokens in play); Errant's + isn't the most impressive, but at least it gives you a chump blocker/threat every turn. Second, while Tirel's - ability is great on an empty board, it's still a - ability; Errant has another + ability. Third, Errant's second + ability usually isn't great in a tokens deck, which is probably why people are down on her; however, it's unreal with either Mirran Crusader or Hero of Bladehold. Fourth, along similar lines, Tirel's ultimate is obviously great when you have all tokens, but it sucks when it means you're killing your own non-token creatures. Fifth, I thought we were good against midrange creature decks, and at least an even match with affinity; why do we even need a board wipe? Sixth, I know it's a simple and obvious point, but 4 mana is less than 5 mana. Those are my arguments. I admit my inexperience though, and certainly would be happy to hear arguments from the other side.
I strongly believe Elspeth Tirel is definitely better than Elspeth Knight Errant and Sorin in this deck. It gives you two options rather than one to stabilize the board. She is the answer when you desperately need life to keep up or get more blockers, I personally use her with great effect against burn and affinity decks. She is also the answer when you need a breakthrough against opponent defense, putting 3 tokens in play with anthems online can win you games, not to mention the last ability to reset the board if things look bleak. Elspeth Knight Errand and Sorin only can play the aggressive role effectively. If you are at the losing end, they don't help as much as you would expect. Masterflex has a point there so take heed.
One of my favorite addition here is Surgical Extraction (I put one main just in case). It's really crippling exiling important cards from your opponent's deck. Destroy an Urza Land with Ghost Quarter and then follow it up with Surgical Extraction. Combos good too with our discard spells. Thoughtseize away that Birthing Pod and then extract it away. Also, I was on the fence of whether or not adding Castigate in here.
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I see your point with the land destruction from Smallpox. I've been playtesting, and our deck is more mana-hungry than I was expecting. So if I can't afford Liliana of the Veil and I don't have ways to blow up Leyline of Sanctity (to use edicts), are the only feasible ways to fight bogles either Engineered Explosives or Runed Halo? Of those two, which is generally more useful?
All right, I buy the argument for Stony Silence, especially because I realized how many of their mana producers are artifacts. Am I right in thinking it turns off things like Darksteel Citadel and Mox Opal? Still... do you think it's better to have 3 Stony Silence, or two of those and a single Kataki, War's Wage? Stony doesn't do much if Cranial Plating is already on something, whereas Kataki will always have a dramatic effect. I also sort of figure I'd rather draw one of each than two Stony, but I also see the argument for playing 3 Stony so you draw the first one as consistently as possible, especially since it's also good in other matchups.
I have a similar question with Relic of Progenitus versus Rest in Peace. Let's assume I want 3 graveyard hosers, and I know I like Rest more than Relic. However, is it better to go all-in with 3 Rest, or is it better to hedge and have 2 Rest and 1 Relic? My thought, again, is I would rather draw 1 of each, because at least Relic can cycle itself. One thing to consider is that they have different implications in different matchups. Rest in Peace hoses storm, while Relic of Progenitus, being nicer towards our own Lingering Souls might be a viable sideboard card where only light graveyard hate is needed, such as against american control.
I see your point about both Windbrisk Heights and Ghost Quarter (which seems to be the preference over Tectonic Edge). What would you think about swapping out 2 Windbrisk and 2 Swamp for 2 Ghost and 2 Temple of Silence? More generally, is there some particular number of white or black sources that people think is ideal?
Last point. I'm still not on the Elspeth Tirel bandwagon. Maybe I just have to play with her. But hear me out. First, Tirel's + ability does nothing when you're behind (i.e. when you have no, or few, tokens in play); Errant's + isn't the most impressive, but at least it gives you a chump blocker/threat every turn. Second, while Tirel's - ability is great on an empty board, it's still a - ability; Errant has another + ability. Third, Errant's second + ability usually isn't great in a tokens deck, which is probably why people are down on her; however, it's unreal with either Mirran Crusader or Hero of Bladehold. Fourth, along similar lines, Tirel's ultimate is obviously great when you have all tokens, but it sucks when it means you're killing your own non-token creatures. Fifth, I thought we were good against midrange creature decks, and at least an even match with affinity; why do we even need a board wipe? Sixth, I know it's a simple and obvious point, but 4 mana is less than 5 mana. Those are my arguments. I admit my inexperience though, and certainly would be happy to hear arguments from the other side.
If you need to take out Enchantments, white is the premier color for that. Erase and Sundering Growth are both excellent options.
Kataki does have upsides and is a meta call over Stony Silence. If there is any amount of tron in your meta I would heavily recommend Stony Silence over Kataki. Kataki may a lot of game against Affinity but the whole point of Tron is ramp. Paying Kataki's tax means very little to them.
Personally I would rather have 3 Rest in Peace vs 2:1 split with Relic. Main reason being that if Rest in Peace is good enough against the opposing deck to be worth bringing in at all then having multiple copies won't be that bad because it is likely your opponent will probably try and have an answer for it. Pod has Harmonic Sliver and Living End has Beast Within. You will likely want multiple copies of Rest in Peace.
Tectonic Edge can help against Scapeshift if you can color screw them. Ghost Quarter can't do that. Ghost Quarter is only better if the opponent manages to assemble Urzatron before playing any other land. Both R/G Tron and Mono-U Tron have more than just colorless cards so it is likely that they will be using their mana rocks to find colored mana to play the rest of their deck nearly guaranteeing that Tec.Edge will be active. I admit that being able to Ghost Quarter a Tron land and Extirpate it turn 1 is freaking nuts though but with only 1 Extirpate I wonder how often that would be relevant versus the other upsides of Tectonic Edge.
Elspeth Tirel synergizes better with the deck than the other options. On an empty board she can come down, make 3 tokens. Next turn you can Spectral Procession and then +1 her and gain upwards of 6 life which is pretty significant. That's a whole 'nother turn against Gofy & Serra Ascendant and 2 more turns against a Restoration Angel among other things. Heck, even against Griselbrand Glass Cannon that's pretty much a full turn negated. That's a pretty powerful way to stabilize. On an even board she comes down, pads your life total, and then next turn one side wipes the board to enable alpha strikes within the next couple of turns. The exception being if you are running Bitterblossom. Intangible Virtue is better than Honor of the Pure in decks that use BB but even still Elspeth's +1 single handidly negates most of the life loss you took from BB assuming you still even have some of the tokens left. Sorin does get better with Intangible Virtue though because his tokens are also black.
I think Stain the Mind could be awesome against a whole slew of decks including Twin, Tron, and even 8-Rack if they haven't dropped Ensnaring Bridge yet.
I was just thinking the other day how hard Torpor Orb hoses decks like Pod and Twin. Its also pretty powerful against Sisters. If I were taking Tokens to a PTQ I would probably mainboard 2-3 Orbs over Tidehollow. Hushwing Gryff is only slightly more susceptible to removal but is also a beater that gets pumped by Honor of the Pure. I can see it being an extremely poweful addition to the deck. It is worth noting that the 3-drop slot in this deck is extremely clogged as it is and it could make for some awkward plays.
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This may sound crazy, but what do you guys think about Ajani Goldmane? He can pump and give vigilance the turn he comes out or you can gain life, which I always find relevant. And he's only 4cmc. And maybe even Ajani Steadfast too. It should be more than easy to hit the double white on Goldmane but being even easier to cast is always nice. You'll probably always get more life with Steadfast's +1 than Goldmane's but it also can't do anything if you have an empty board state. And the second half of Steadfast's -2 is a whole lot less relevant than that of Goldmane's -1, but that's not that big of a deal.
I think Ajani Goldmane is better than Ajani Steadfast unless you are doing a superfriends build. In the old forum there were a lot of people who used to run Ajani Goldmane. He eventually fell out of favor for Sorin, Lord of Innistrad or Elspeth, Knight-Errant. Eventually they fell out of favor for Elspeth Tirel.
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I see your point with the land destruction from Smallpox. I've been playtesting, and our deck is more mana-hungry than I was expecting. So if I can't afford Liliana of the Veil and I don't have ways to blow up Leyline of Sanctity (to use edicts), are the only feasible ways to fight bogles either Engineered Explosives or Runed Halo? Of those two, which is generally more useful?
All right, I buy the argument for Stony Silence, especially because I realized how many of their mana producers are artifacts. Am I right in thinking it turns off things like Darksteel Citadel and Mox Opal? Still... do you think it's better to have 3 Stony Silence, or two of those and a single Kataki, War's Wage? Stony doesn't do much if Cranial Plating is already on something, whereas Kataki will always have a dramatic effect. I also sort of figure I'd rather draw one of each than two Stony, but I also see the argument for playing 3 Stony so you draw the first one as consistently as possible, especially since it's also good in other matchups.
I have a similar question with Relic of Progenitus versus Rest in Peace. Let's assume I want 3 graveyard hosers, and I know I like Rest more than Relic. However, is it better to go all-in with 3 Rest, or is it better to hedge and have 2 Rest and 1 Relic? My thought, again, is I would rather draw 1 of each, because at least Relic can cycle itself. One thing to consider is that they have different implications in different matchups. Rest in Peace hoses storm, while Relic of Progenitus, being nicer towards our own Lingering Souls might be a viable sideboard card where only light graveyard hate is needed, such as against american control.
I see your point about both Windbrisk Heights and Ghost Quarter (which seems to be the preference over Tectonic Edge). What would you think about swapping out 2 Windbrisk and 2 Swamp for 2 Ghost and 2 Temple of Silence? More generally, is there some particular number of white or black sources that people think is ideal?
Last point. I'm still not on the Elspeth Tirel bandwagon. Maybe I just have to play with her. But hear me out. First, Tirel's + ability does nothing when you're behind (i.e. when you have no, or few, tokens in play); Errant's + isn't the most impressive, but at least it gives you a chump blocker/threat every turn. Second, while Tirel's - ability is great on an empty board, it's still a - ability; Errant has another + ability. Third, Errant's second + ability usually isn't great in a tokens deck, which is probably why people are down on her; however, it's unreal with either Mirran Crusader or Hero of Bladehold. Fourth, along similar lines, Tirel's ultimate is obviously great when you have all tokens, but it sucks when it means you're killing your own non-token creatures. Fifth, I thought we were good against midrange creature decks, and at least an even match with affinity; why do we even need a board wipe? Sixth, I know it's a simple and obvious point, but 4 mana is less than 5 mana. Those are my arguments. I admit my inexperience though, and certainly would be happy to hear arguments from the other side.
I'm not a huge fan of Tirel, either. I feel like a different answer should fit here. Another sword, or even a Batterskull, I feel, would go nicely here. Depending on the anthem you use, you could have a 5/5 lifelinking, vigilant beater who can suddenly fly. I never want to blow up the board because there goes my anthems or equips. The soldiers can still be swept away and they don't block fliers, so Elspeth isn't entirely protected.
I'm not a huge fan of Tirel, either. I feel like a different answer should fit here. Another sword, or even a Batterskull, I feel, would go nicely here. Depending on the anthem you use, you could have a 5/5 lifelinking, vigilant beater who can suddenly fly. I never want to blow up the board because there goes my anthems or equips. The soldiers can still be swept away and they don't block fliers, so Elspeth isn't entirely protected.
I think Ajani Goldmane is better than Ajani Steadfast unless you are doing a superfriends build. In the old forum there were a lot of people who used to run Ajani Goldmane. He eventually fell out of favor for Sorin, Lord of Innistrad or Elspeth, Knight-Errant. Eventually they fell out of favor for Elspeth Tirel.
Using a walker is totally optional, you'll notice the pro lists haven't had one in awhile. BUT if you are going to use one, Tirel really is the best. I think both Ajani's will fall into the same hole of "makes a good board state better", but won't bring you back from loosing.
I see your point with the land destruction from Smallpox. I've been playtesting, and our deck is more mana-hungry than I was expecting. So if I can't afford Liliana of the Veil and I don't have ways to blow up Leyline of Sanctity (to use edicts), are the only feasible ways to fight bogles either Engineered Explosives or Runed Halo? Of those two, which is generally more useful?
All right, I buy the argument for Stony Silence, especially because I realized how many of their mana producers are artifacts. Am I right in thinking it turns off things like Darksteel Citadel and Mox Opal? Still... do you think it's better to have 3 Stony Silence, or two of those and a single Kataki, War's Wage? Stony doesn't do much if Cranial Plating is already on something, whereas Kataki will always have a dramatic effect. I also sort of figure I'd rather draw one of each than two Stony, but I also see the argument for playing 3 Stony so you draw the first one as consistently as possible, especially since it's also good in other matchups.
I have a similar question with Relic of Progenitus versus Rest in Peace. Let's assume I want 3 graveyard hosers, and I know I like Rest more than Relic. However, is it better to go all-in with 3 Rest, or is it better to hedge and have 2 Rest and 1 Relic? My thought, again, is I would rather draw 1 of each, because at least Relic can cycle itself. One thing to consider is that they have different implications in different matchups. Rest in Peace hoses storm, while Relic of Progenitus, being nicer towards our own Lingering Souls might be a viable sideboard card where only light graveyard hate is needed, such as against american control.
I see your point about both Windbrisk Heights and Ghost Quarter (which seems to be the preference over Tectonic Edge). What would you think about swapping out 2 Windbrisk and 2 Swamp for 2 Ghost and 2 Temple of Silence? More generally, is there some particular number of white or black sources that people think is ideal?
Last point. I'm still not on the Elspeth Tirel bandwagon. Maybe I just have to play with her. But hear me out. First, Tirel's + ability does nothing when you're behind (i.e. when you have no, or few, tokens in play); Errant's + isn't the most impressive, but at least it gives you a chump blocker/threat every turn. Second, while Tirel's - ability is great on an empty board, it's still a - ability; Errant has another + ability. Third, Errant's second + ability usually isn't great in a tokens deck, which is probably why people are down on her; however, it's unreal with either Mirran Crusader or Hero of Bladehold. Fourth, along similar lines, Tirel's ultimate is obviously great when you have all tokens, but it sucks when it means you're killing your own non-token creatures. Fifth, I thought we were good against midrange creature decks, and at least an even match with affinity; why do we even need a board wipe? Sixth, I know it's a simple and obvious point, but 4 mana is less than 5 mana. Those are my arguments. I admit my inexperience though, and certainly would be happy to hear arguments from the other side.
If you need to take out Enchantments, white is the premier color for that. Erase and Sundering Growth are both excellent options.
Kataki does have upsides and is a meta call over Stony Silence. If there is any amount of tron in your meta I would heavily recommend Stony Silence over Kataki. Kataki may a lot of game against Affinity but the whole point of Tron is ramp. Paying Kataki's tax means very little to them.
Personally I would rather have 3 Rest in Peace vs 2:1 split with Relic. Main reason being that if Rest in Peace is good enough against the opposing deck to be worth bringing in at all then having multiple copies won't be that bad because it is likely your opponent will probably try and have an answer for it. Pod has Harmonic Sliver and Living End has Beast Within. You will likely want multiple copies of Rest in Peace.
Tectonic Edge can help against Scapeshift if you can color screw them. Ghost Quarter can't do that. Ghost Quarter is only better if the opponent manages to assemble Urzatron before playing any other land. Both R/G Tron and Mono-U Tron have more than just colorless cards so it is likely that they will be using their mana rocks to find colored mana to play the rest of their deck nearly guaranteeing that Tec.Edge will be active. I admit that being able to Ghost Quarter a Tron land and Extirpate it turn 1 is freaking nuts though but with only 1 Extirpate I wonder how often that would be relevant versus the other upsides of Tectonic Edge.
Elspeth Tirel synergizes better with the deck than the other options. On an empty board she can come down, make 3 tokens. Next turn you can Spectral Procession and then +1 her and gain upwards of 6 life which is pretty significant. That's a whole 'nother turn against Gofy & Serra Ascendant and 2 more turns against a Restoration Angel among other things. Heck, even against Griselbrand Glass Cannon that's pretty much a full turn negated. That's a pretty powerful way to stabilize. On an even board she comes down, pads your life total, and then next turn one side wipes the board to enable alpha strikes within the next couple of turns. The exception being if you are running Bitterblossom. Intangible Virtue is better than Honor of the Pure in decks that use BB but even still Elspeth's +1 single handidly negates most of the life loss you took from BB assuming you still even have some of the tokens left. Sorin does get better with Intangible Virtue though because his tokens are also black.
I think Stain the Mind could be awesome against a whole slew of decks including Twin, Tron, and even 8-Rack if they haven't dropped Ensnaring Bridge yet.
I was just thinking the other day how hard Torpor Orb hoses decks like Pod and Twin. Its also pretty powerful against Sisters. If I were taking Tokens to a PTQ I would probably mainboard 2-3 Orbs over Tidehollow. Hushwing Gryff is only slightly more susceptible to removal but is also a beater that gets pumped by Honor of the Pure. I can see it being an extremely poweful addition to the deck. It is worth noting that the 3-drop slot in this deck is extremely clogged as it is and it could make for some awkward plays.
+1, very well said. To add on, I personally favor Engineered Explosives. Yes, Stoney Silence stops their artifact mana-producers, and torpor orb is fantastic. I would definitely recommended it for a PTQ, or for unknown meta in general. It also stops random decks, like soul sisters or combo elves.
One of my favorite addition here is Surgical Extraction (I put one main just in case). It's really crippling exiling important cards from your opponent's deck. Destroy an Urza Land with Ghost Quarter and then follow it up with Surgical Extraction. Combos good too with our discard spells. Thoughtseize away that Birthing Pod and then extract it away. Also, I was on the fence of whether or not adding Castigate in here.
Looks good. I never bought into surgical extraction, I found it to just be a cute trick, but it sounds like it works for your meta, which is the whole point, make the deck work for you.
I'm not a huge fan of Tirel, either. I feel like a different answer should fit here. Another sword, or even a Batterskull, I feel, would go nicely here. Depending on the anthem you use, you could have a 5/5 lifelinking, vigilant beater who can suddenly fly. I never want to blow up the board because there goes my anthems or equips. The soldiers can still be swept away and they don't block fliers, so Elspeth isn't entirely protected.
Your opponent wants the board blown up even less than you do, considering you keep tirel and all your tokens and they're left with nothing. if you have a lot of anthems out and are winning the board presence game, no big deal. you use her -2 and shes an awesome win more card. she either flips the table or helps you win a lot quicker. her flexibility depending on what you need is what really makes her great IMO. theres never been a game where she hasn't been a huge help to me, with the exception of a couple matches I was about to lose anyway. even then, my opponent had to attack her and I bought myself an extra turn or 2.
Stain the mind seems like an auto include sideboard card. Am I missing something/
I don't really like that sort of effect, it is almost always card disadvantage for us. That being said if your meta requires that sort of effect (lots of scapeshift, twin, etc.) this this is probably the best card for that effect in our deck. really depends on your meta though.
I feel so helpless playing this deck... I'm always at the mercy of my opponent. Playing against Scapeshift and G/R Tron there's just nothing I can do. They barely feel a discard spell considering one deck plays Snapcaster and the other is just a deck filled with dig spells. The second the game starts I have roughly 5 turns to kill them or I lose the game. Leyline sometimes pushes the limit 1-2 turns until the Scapeshift player gets a bounce spell and then it's just over. And G/R Tron could care less, they just exile it with Karn or smash my face in with Wurmcoil while gaining life putting themselves WAY out of range.
Well those are two of our worst matchups I think...discard really helps and knowing what to take from their hands. Saying that you are always at the mercy of your opponent is a bit of an overstatement.
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I'm not a huge fan of Tirel, either. I feel like a different answer should fit here. Another sword, or even a Batterskull, I feel, would go nicely here. Depending on the anthem you use, you could have a 5/5 lifelinking, vigilant beater who can suddenly fly. I never want to blow up the board because there goes my anthems or equips. The soldiers can still be swept away and they don't block fliers, so Elspeth isn't entirely protected.
Your opponent wants the board blown up even less than you do, considering you keep tirel and all your tokens and they're left with nothing. if you have a lot of anthems out and are winning the board presence game, no big deal. you use her -2 and shes an awesome win more card. she either flips the table or helps you win a lot quicker. her flexibility depending on what you need is what really makes her great IMO. theres never been a game where she hasn't been a huge help to me, with the exception of a couple matches I was about to lose anyway. even then, my opponent had to attack her and I bought myself an extra turn or 2.
I think that's true in a some cases, but against UWR Control or Burn or even Jund a board wipe doesn't mean much since they flash in, burn, or blow up for answers. A turn or two later against these decks actually doesn't work in my favor, in my experience. My opinion, out of all of the PWs, she's the least amount of bad to run in this shell, I agree with that. I am looking for something to push this deck over the top. It doesn't do any spectacular, and it needs a card for it to do that, not another angle of resilience.
I am looking for something to push this deck over the top. It doesn't do any spectacular, and it needs a card for it to do that, not another angle of resilience.
Speaking as a monoblack Standard player... has anyone tried Pack Rat? It's a must-answer play on turn 2, and demands nothing less than a sweeper on turn 5. It can take over games very quickly. I obviously haven't tried it out yet in this shell, but if you're running Intangible Virtue over Honor of the Pure, I think it could slot right in quite easily. It even survives cards that sweep our other tokens based on CMC, because all the rats (even the tokens) have CMC 2.
Hello everyone. First time posting here. I recently decided to move from Standard to Modern, mainly because I got tired of all that monoblack/monoblue stuff, but that's a completely different story.
I am quite tight on budget, and overall am considering either switching Scullers for Thoughtseize, buying some leylines and Runed Halos.
Also I am not sure if I should add fetches here. Maybe there is something else that you think should go from my list? Please advice, because this format is completely new for me and I don't know what to expect in tournaments to come.
Hello everyone. First time posting here. I recently decided to move from Standard to Modern, mainly because I got tired of all that monoblack/monoblue stuff, but that's a completely different story.
I am quite tight on budget, and overall am considering either switching Scullers for Thoughtseize, buying some leylines and Runed Halos.
Also I am not sure if I should add fetches here. Maybe there is something else that you think should go from my list? Please advice, because this format is completely new for me and I don't know what to expect in tournaments to come.
in an ideal build youd run fetches, but if youre on more of a budget you wont get bang for your buck at their price. just add thoughtseize in place of 4 of your creatures and youll be fine.
Hello everyone. First time posting here. I recently decided to move from Standard to Modern, mainly because I got tired of all that monoblack/monoblue stuff, but that's a completely different story.
I am quite tight on budget, and overall am considering either switching Scullers for Thoughtseize, buying some leylines and Runed Halos.
Also I am not sure if I should add fetches here. Maybe there is something else that you think should go from my list? Please advice, because this format is completely new for me and I don't know what to expect in tournaments to come.
If it makes you feel any better, Marsh Flats are the cheapestfetch-land. One can find them for around $30 on eBay. Not helpful? Sorry.
One might try a copy or two of Temple of Silence but that has an obvious, large drawback. City of Brass is another budget option which you've apparently already rejected. Reflecting Pool might also work for you and Conspiracy has sent the price well down - at least for the Conspiracy printing.
The trouble with playing budget cards until you can afford the good stuff is you will usually wind up spending even more; a little for the substitute and then a little more for the good stuff later because it's price has increased. Be careful not to waste too much money on cards you aren't going to like anyway.
There have been mad rumors for some time now that fetch-lands will be reprinted. Here's hoping.
3 Brimaz, King of Oreskos
2 Hero of Bladehold
Spells:
3 Path to Exile
4 Thoughtseize
2 Doom Blade
3 Honor of the Pure
3 Intangible Virtue
4 Raise the Alarm
3 Zealous Persecution
4 Lingering Souls
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
4 Spectral Procession
2 Fetid Heath
4 Godless Shrine
4 Isolated Chapel
4 Marsh Flats
3 Plains
2 Swamp
1 Vault of the Archangel
4 Windbrisk Heights
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
3 Duress
1 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Doom Blade
2 Kataki, War's Wage
2 Stony Silence
1 Torpor Orb
2 Dismember
[EDH Non-Primers] Newzuri | Breya
Why does no one run Smallpox? It seems like it would fit in well, and be a potentially powerful answer to Bogles, Etched Champion, and any deck that looks to put one important threat into play. It even gets around Leyline of Sanctity. Also, I feel like our deck wouldn't care about the effect very much, since we have tons of interchangeable creatures, we already try to rip apart people's hands, we can discard lingering souls, and we have a very low curve so we need fewer lands. I still think it's just a sideboard card, but it seems good there.
What do people think of Hushwing Gryff? It's basically a Torpor Orb on legs... er, wings, for only 1 more mana. That makes it a clock, and a pretty good one with all our copies of Honor of the Pure. Seems pretty good against Pod and Twin decks, and reasonable against UWR for turning off Snapcaster Mage and Restoration Angel.
Could someone explain why Stony Silence is better than Kataki, War's Wage? Is it just because it has applications against Tron as well as Affinity? It seems like Kataki would be the better option in the Affinity matchup. I'm new to modern though, so maybe I'm just not evaluating things properly.
Stain the Mind seems like an ideal sideboard card if you're worried about combo. Turn 3-4 stain removes their ability to combo, and then we win the fair fight. It seems like the only real way to hose Scapeshift, because we can just rip Scapeshift out well before they hit the necessary 7 lands. Thoughtseize and Inquisition of Kozilek can lead in to the crucial Stain the Mind by taking countermagic.
Edit: I'm thinking of running the deck like this. How does it look? Can anyone give me any clues on what matchups this version will be better against, and what matchups I will struggle with?
4x Caves of Koilos
4x Isolate Chapel
1x Mana Confluence
5x Plains
4x Swamp
1x Vault of the Archangel
4x Windbrisk Heights
Planeswalker - 2
1x Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1x Sorin, Lord of Innistrad
4x Honor of the Pure
Sorcery - 14
2x Inquisition of Kozilek
4x Lingering Souls
4x Spectral Procession
4x Thoughtseize
Instant - 11
4x Path to Exile
4x Raise the Alarm
3x Zealous Persecution
Creature - 6
2x Hero of Bladehold
4x Mirran Crusader
2x Burrenton Forge-Tender
2x Eidolon of Rhetoric
2x Hushwing Gryff
1x Kataki, War's Wage
1x Relic of Progenitus
2x Rest in Peace
2x Smallpox
1x Stain the Mind
2x Stony Silence
The lands are budget, I admit. I might pick up godless shrines and/or Fetid Heaths, but sadly not fetches. For Planeswalkers, I wanted a couple more finishers (in addition to the Heroes), and I like having 2 different walkers, because they do different things for me. Knight-Errant seems way better than Tirel when there are Mirran Crusaders and Heroes of Bladehold in the deck; do people with more experience think that's a correct evaluation? I put in the crusaders (and took out intangible virtue) to diversify the deck a bit, and to give a game-1 edge against black and green decks (so I could tailor my board more to beating other things, like combo, tron, and affinity). Seem reasonable? Any obvious changes that should be made?
Thanks for the help!
Your meta may vary, but in the (admittedly limited) experience I've had playing the deck I'd suggest:
I'm going off topic a bit, but the one that acts like Hatebears is loosely called Modern Deadguy Ale. It's a midrange deck, and has its own page here. It's definitely our sister deck. I started brewing a version of it around Christmas, and then later found the post. I'm not a huge fan of BW token's dependence on Anthems to win (which is why I was brewing a BW Midrange), and I think it may prove to be more competitive than BW tokens. It's been mention by a few pros (including our primary spokesman, Craig Wescoe). The forum regulars should definitely check it out. The playset of Bob's does make it pricey.
I'm struggling with a good way to do this that doesn't clog the primer. It's very tough to distinguish true "varients", rather than "I'm using a slightly different pile of cards". You specifically mention the squadron hawk and castigate decks. To me, they are just stock decks, heavily tilted with cards from the "alternative" list. Neither are a "better" form of BW tokens, but rather a form of tokens crafted around specific metas. For example, Craig Wescoe made a squadron hawk token deck to fight zoo in Pro Tour Born of the Gods.
I think the best approach is to focus the primer on card discussion, and focus the forum on deck construction and tuning. However, if a variant proves to be winning consistently, or gets a pro-level endorsement, I can add it to the primer.
There was also the recommendation of doing a "featured deck" section, which I like. I can easily add a spoiler to the bottom and include it. If you see something that's "feature deck" worthy (won a noteworthy event), or you're deck performs well and you want to brag, PM me, and I'll look it over. I aim to update the primer every 2ish weeks.
Small Pox is super crippling for us, too. We do need the land, we don't draw (so loosing a card sucks), and for the same price we can just play a targeted discard spell. For Boggles, dodge leyline with Engineered Explosives.
Stony Silence hits more matches, and has the benefit of turning off their deck almost entirely. Kataki is crazy crippling, but not a road block. They can still pay the fee for 3 artifacts, and kill you with an etched champion wielding cranial platting. Stony Silence, on the other hand, wouldn't let them equip the platting.
Deck list looks solid. You may not want 4 Windbrisk Heights, and I recommend a Ghost Quarter or 2, just in case. Tirel is the best. It's important to understand that Elspeth Tirel is not designed to create explosive finishes, she's a board stabilizer, and can turn around the game. Knight-Errant and Sorin are great at maintaining an already good board. If you're falling behind, they will not help you. As for sideboard, what do you know about the meta? Relic of Progenitus generally isn't worth it over Rest in Peace. I go into some explanation in the primer, but it's all relative to meta.
All right, I buy the argument for Stony Silence, especially because I realized how many of their mana producers are artifacts. Am I right in thinking it turns off things like Darksteel Citadel and Mox Opal? Still... do you think it's better to have 3 Stony Silence, or two of those and a single Kataki, War's Wage? Stony doesn't do much if Cranial Plating is already on something, whereas Kataki will always have a dramatic effect. I also sort of figure I'd rather draw one of each than two Stony, but I also see the argument for playing 3 Stony so you draw the first one as consistently as possible, especially since it's also good in other matchups.
I have a similar question with Relic of Progenitus versus Rest in Peace. Let's assume I want 3 graveyard hosers, and I know I like Rest more than Relic. However, is it better to go all-in with 3 Rest, or is it better to hedge and have 2 Rest and 1 Relic? My thought, again, is I would rather draw 1 of each, because at least Relic can cycle itself. One thing to consider is that they have different implications in different matchups. Rest in Peace hoses storm, while Relic of Progenitus, being nicer towards our own Lingering Souls might be a viable sideboard card where only light graveyard hate is needed, such as against american control.
I see your point about both Windbrisk Heights and Ghost Quarter (which seems to be the preference over Tectonic Edge). What would you think about swapping out 2 Windbrisk and 2 Swamp for 2 Ghost and 2 Temple of Silence? More generally, is there some particular number of white or black sources that people think is ideal?
Last point. I'm still not on the Elspeth Tirel bandwagon. Maybe I just have to play with her. But hear me out. First, Tirel's + ability does nothing when you're behind (i.e. when you have no, or few, tokens in play); Errant's + isn't the most impressive, but at least it gives you a chump blocker/threat every turn. Second, while Tirel's - ability is great on an empty board, it's still a - ability; Errant has another + ability. Third, Errant's second + ability usually isn't great in a tokens deck, which is probably why people are down on her; however, it's unreal with either Mirran Crusader or Hero of Bladehold. Fourth, along similar lines, Tirel's ultimate is obviously great when you have all tokens, but it sucks when it means you're killing your own non-token creatures. Fifth, I thought we were good against midrange creature decks, and at least an even match with affinity; why do we even need a board wipe? Sixth, I know it's a simple and obvious point, but 4 mana is less than 5 mana. Those are my arguments. I admit my inexperience though, and certainly would be happy to hear arguments from the other side.
Thanks again for the help.
P.S. Thoughts on Stain the Mind and Hushwing Gryff?
1x Fetid Heath
2x Ghost Quarter
4x Godless Shrine
4x Isolated Chapel
4x Marsh Flats
2x Plains
1x Swamp
1x Vault of the Archangel
3x Windbrisk Heights
Creatures (3)
3x Tidehollow Sculler
1x Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1x Sorin, Lord of Innistrad
Instants (13)
4x Path to Exile
4x Raise the Alarm
1x Surgical Extraction
4x Zealous Persecution
Sorceries (15)
3x Inquisition of Kozilek
4x Lingering Souls
4x Spectral Procession
4x Thoughtseize
2x Burrenton Forge-Tender
4x Leyline of Sanctity
3x Rest in Peace
3x Stony Silence
2x Surgical Extraction
1x Torpor Orb
One of my favorite addition here is Surgical Extraction (I put one main just in case). It's really crippling exiling important cards from your opponent's deck. Destroy an Urza Land with Ghost Quarter and then follow it up with Surgical Extraction. Combos good too with our discard spells. Thoughtseize away that Birthing Pod and then extract it away. Also, I was on the fence of whether or not adding Castigate in here.
If you need to take out Enchantments, white is the premier color for that. Erase and Sundering Growth are both excellent options.
Kataki does have upsides and is a meta call over Stony Silence. If there is any amount of tron in your meta I would heavily recommend Stony Silence over Kataki. Kataki may a lot of game against Affinity but the whole point of Tron is ramp. Paying Kataki's tax means very little to them.
Personally I would rather have 3 Rest in Peace vs 2:1 split with Relic. Main reason being that if Rest in Peace is good enough against the opposing deck to be worth bringing in at all then having multiple copies won't be that bad because it is likely your opponent will probably try and have an answer for it. Pod has Harmonic Sliver and Living End has Beast Within. You will likely want multiple copies of Rest in Peace.
Tectonic Edge can help against Scapeshift if you can color screw them. Ghost Quarter can't do that. Ghost Quarter is only better if the opponent manages to assemble Urzatron before playing any other land. Both R/G Tron and Mono-U Tron have more than just colorless cards so it is likely that they will be using their mana rocks to find colored mana to play the rest of their deck nearly guaranteeing that Tec.Edge will be active. I admit that being able to Ghost Quarter a Tron land and Extirpate it turn 1 is freaking nuts though but with only 1 Extirpate I wonder how often that would be relevant versus the other upsides of Tectonic Edge.
Elspeth Tirel synergizes better with the deck than the other options. On an empty board she can come down, make 3 tokens. Next turn you can Spectral Procession and then +1 her and gain upwards of 6 life which is pretty significant. That's a whole 'nother turn against Gofy & Serra Ascendant and 2 more turns against a Restoration Angel among other things. Heck, even against Griselbrand Glass Cannon that's pretty much a full turn negated. That's a pretty powerful way to stabilize. On an even board she comes down, pads your life total, and then next turn one side wipes the board to enable alpha strikes within the next couple of turns. The exception being if you are running Bitterblossom. Intangible Virtue is better than Honor of the Pure in decks that use BB but even still Elspeth's +1 single handidly negates most of the life loss you took from BB assuming you still even have some of the tokens left. Sorin does get better with Intangible Virtue though because his tokens are also black.
I think Stain the Mind could be awesome against a whole slew of decks including Twin, Tron, and even 8-Rack if they haven't dropped Ensnaring Bridge yet.
I was just thinking the other day how hard Torpor Orb hoses decks like Pod and Twin. Its also pretty powerful against Sisters. If I were taking Tokens to a PTQ I would probably mainboard 2-3 Orbs over Tidehollow. Hushwing Gryff is only slightly more susceptible to removal but is also a beater that gets pumped by Honor of the Pure. I can see it being an extremely poweful addition to the deck. It is worth noting that the 3-drop slot in this deck is extremely clogged as it is and it could make for some awkward plays.
https://pucatrade.com/invite/gift/86097
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I'm not a huge fan of Tirel, either. I feel like a different answer should fit here. Another sword, or even a Batterskull, I feel, would go nicely here. Depending on the anthem you use, you could have a 5/5 lifelinking, vigilant beater who can suddenly fly. I never want to blow up the board because there goes my anthems or equips. The soldiers can still be swept away and they don't block fliers, so Elspeth isn't entirely protected.
Using a walker is totally optional, you'll notice the pro lists haven't had one in awhile. BUT if you are going to use one, Tirel really is the best. I think both Ajani's will fall into the same hole of "makes a good board state better", but won't bring you back from loosing.
WBB/W TokensWB
WUBAd NauseamWUB
- Commander
WG Captain Sisay's LegendsWG
Your opponent wants the board blown up even less than you do, considering you keep tirel and all your tokens and they're left with nothing. if you have a lot of anthems out and are winning the board presence game, no big deal. you use her -2 and shes an awesome win more card. she either flips the table or helps you win a lot quicker. her flexibility depending on what you need is what really makes her great IMO. theres never been a game where she hasn't been a huge help to me, with the exception of a couple matches I was about to lose anyway. even then, my opponent had to attack her and I bought myself an extra turn or 2.
I don't really like that sort of effect, it is almost always card disadvantage for us. That being said if your meta requires that sort of effect (lots of scapeshift, twin, etc.) this this is probably the best card for that effect in our deck. really depends on your meta though.
Well those are two of our worst matchups I think...discard really helps and knowing what to take from their hands. Saying that you are always at the mercy of your opponent is a bit of an overstatement.
I think that's true in a some cases, but against UWR Control or Burn or even Jund a board wipe doesn't mean much since they flash in, burn, or blow up for answers. A turn or two later against these decks actually doesn't work in my favor, in my experience. My opinion, out of all of the PWs, she's the least amount of bad to run in this shell, I agree with that. I am looking for something to push this deck over the top. It doesn't do any spectacular, and it needs a card for it to do that, not another angle of resilience.
Speaking as a monoblack Standard player... has anyone tried Pack Rat? It's a must-answer play on turn 2, and demands nothing less than a sweeper on turn 5. It can take over games very quickly. I obviously haven't tried it out yet in this shell, but if you're running Intangible Virtue over Honor of the Pure, I think it could slot right in quite easily. It even survives cards that sweep our other tokens based on CMC, because all the rats (even the tokens) have CMC 2.
I just got an Event Deck and think of upgrading it. What I had in my stash was just pack of Godless Shrines, Mirran Crusader and Hero of Bladehold.
Here is my current list:
4x Caves of Koilos
4x Isolated Chapel
4x Godless Shrine
3x Windbrisk Heights
5x Plains
4x Swamp
Creatures (10)
4x Hero of Bladehold
3x Mirran Crusader
3x Tidehollow Sculler
3x Honor of the Pure
2x Inquisition of Kozilek
3x Intangible Virtue
4x Lingering Souls
3x Path to Exile
4x Raise the Alarm
4x Spectral Procession
3x Zealous Persecution
2x Burrenton Forge-Tender
2x Dismember
3x Duress
2x Ghost Quarter
3x Kataki, War's Wage
3x Relic of Progenitus
I am quite tight on budget, and overall am considering either switching Scullers for Thoughtseize, buying some leylines and Runed Halos.
Also I am not sure if I should add fetches here. Maybe there is something else that you think should go from my list? Please advice, because this format is completely new for me and I don't know what to expect in tournaments to come.
in an ideal build youd run fetches, but if youre on more of a budget you wont get bang for your buck at their price. just add thoughtseize in place of 4 of your creatures and youll be fine.
If it makes you feel any better, Marsh Flats are the cheapest fetch-land. One can find them for around $30 on eBay. Not helpful? Sorry.
One might try a copy or two of Temple of Silence but that has an obvious, large drawback. City of Brass is another budget option which you've apparently already rejected. Reflecting Pool might also work for you and Conspiracy has sent the price well down - at least for the Conspiracy printing.
Thoughtseize isn't a exactly a budget card either nor is Leyline of Sanctity.
The trouble with playing budget cards until you can afford the good stuff is you will usually wind up spending even more; a little for the substitute and then a little more for the good stuff later because it's price has increased. Be careful not to waste too much money on cards you aren't going to like anyway.
There have been mad rumors for some time now that fetch-lands will be reprinted. Here's hoping.
Frenzy-Affinity-Ghost Quarter-Rock-Tokens- RGWPhyrexian Zoo- WVial KnightsStandard:
BW Knights(Rotated)Pioneer: RW Knights - BW Rally Zombies - UW Heroes
Commander:WUG
Jenara, Asura of War- WGSigarda, Host of HeronsCasualties of economicsLegacy: Good-night, sweet prince. Mono-R Burn