Hi guys! Im splashing white in my Tezz deck for Lingerig souls and the more it goes, the more i like the token complement to my artifact strategy. I was wondering if maybe you could give me a feedback on how efficient Zealous persecution has been for you, as Im considering it as sideboard tech. Specifically, i can see it do some work against:
A. Affinity (?)
B. Infect
C. Faeries
D. ...tokens
Thanks!!
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MODERN Blue Lantern, UBx Tezzerator. OLD SCHOOL 93/94 «The Pain Train» Black Sligh, Esper «Machine Gun» Artifacts, Jund «Psycho» Ponza-Disko.
Hi guys! Im splashing white in my Tezz deck for Lingerig souls and the more it goes, the more i like the token complement to my artifact strategy. I was wondering if maybe you could give me a feedback on how efficient Zealous persecution has been for you, as Im considering it as sideboard tech. Specifically, i can see it do some work against:
A. Affinity (?)
B. Infect
C. Faeries
D. ...tokens
Thanks!!
What do you want Zealous Persecution to do? Do you want a field wipe? Do you want to buff creatures for lethal potential? Do you want a combat trick? If the answer is yes to all 3, persecution is good option against all those decks. If not, you should consider something more specific. The problem with persecution is that sometimes it doesn't help, and that you really need an army on your side for full value. I've completely cleared the board of Affinity and Infect players with it (it hits man lands, glistener elf, memnite, steal overseer, signal pest, etc), and I've had it sit dead in my hand to the same decks (ornithopter, etched champion, master of etherium, and phyrexian crusader). As long as you have have to buff, it's probably worth testing. I'm not sure how many creatures Tezz decks create.
Boros Charm replacing Kataki in the side (Kataki+wear//tear+Stoney Silence is overkill anyway). 4 IV's, 4 Thoughtseize, and no Spectral Procession, as that's a no no with Bob. Finally, I don't think Slayers' Stronghold serves a purpose. Raise the Alarm may actually be a useful token spell, as it's cheap off Bob, and gets value from Pyromancer. That's my 2 cents.
This list is cool. I think you have to go all in on Lightning Bolt though. And I would get rid of 3 raise the alarm, 1 Intangible Virtue, and 1 Runechanter's Pike to run +2 Bolt and 3 IoK. Hand disruption is vital. I like the basis though. Kind of hybrid Deadguy/TOkens/Burn. Looks fun. Mana could be slightly better I think. Great sketch though.
Removing Raise the Alarm means the only token producers are Young Pyromancer, Sorin, Lord of Innistrad, and Lingering Souls. If you play a game, and never see a Young Pyromancer, you'll have just played a pretty poor burn deck. The main red cards that accelerate our goals of multiple creatures per spell, and disrupting our opponents are young pyro, wear//tear, and boros charm. Lightning Bolt is just a nice bonus. This may be total MTG heresy, but I don't think it's always mandatory to run 4. I do agree that removing Runechanter's Pike for Inquisition of Kozilek will probably make for a more consistent deck.
I think a good build using 2-4 Pack Rat and 2-4 Bitterblossom, must win a lot of games
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Modern: RW R/W Burn WB B/W TokensXU MonuU Tron // UWX UW Tron R GoblinsW Soul SistersRWG Small ZooWUR WUR Geist/Control/Kiki-Resto Combo/NahiriUR Splinter Twin (90% Japanese)/ Grixis TwinRUB UR Delver / Grixis Delver UR Blue MoonBWU Ad NauseamWDeath and TaxesRUB Grixis ControlUMerfolksX Affinity RGB Living End UR Storm/PiF Combo RGX R/G TRON GWU Bant Eldrazi BW Eldrazi and Taxes RUBGoryos Vengeance UB Faeries Legacy:BRx Renimator Playing right now:Standard: Jeskai Control Modern; GoryosVengeance/UBFaeries/Affinity Legacy: BRx Reanimator Pauper: UR Drake (banned) Commander: Merieke Ri Berit Esper
This is my decklist using Bitterblossom + Pack Rat + Brimaz
5 removals, 7 anthems, 6 discards, 4 finishers, 18 tokens generators and pack rat as al alternative win-coin
Modern: RW R/W Burn WB B/W TokensXU MonuU Tron // UWX UW Tron R GoblinsW Soul SistersRWG Small ZooWUR WUR Geist/Control/Kiki-Resto Combo/NahiriUR Splinter Twin (90% Japanese)/ Grixis TwinRUB UR Delver / Grixis Delver UR Blue MoonBWU Ad NauseamWDeath and TaxesRUB Grixis ControlUMerfolksX Affinity RGB Living End UR Storm/PiF Combo RGX R/G TRON GWU Bant Eldrazi BW Eldrazi and Taxes RUBGoryos Vengeance UB Faeries Legacy:BRx Renimator Playing right now:Standard: Jeskai Control Modern; GoryosVengeance/UBFaeries/Affinity Legacy: BRx Reanimator Pauper: UR Drake (banned) Commander: Merieke Ri Berit Esper
I think a good build using 2-4 Pack Rat and 2-4 Bitterblossom, must win a lot of games
I win the majority of my games without either, so the real question is, "does it win more games, and is it more consistent?" ie "what is the most optimal list"?
This is my decklist using Bitterblossom + Pack Rat + Brimaz
5 removals, 7 anthems, 6 discards, 4 finishers, 18 tokens generators and pack rat as al alternative win-coin
The deck list looks tight. We all need to start testing. We've got a BB build, the anthem-less pack rat build I wrote about (I'm shy 1 bob, but I sold some cards, so I can get it), and the young pyro build holiclol suggested. Go forth and play!
I will test it ASAP the cards i order (3x bitterblosom and 3x brimaz) arrive, i feel this can works very nice, and of course the list can be changed due to more options, i really feel pack rat and bitterblossom fits really nice in this deck, and Brimaz its for lower the curve of the deck, we need to run only 3 CMC or less for put online pack rat as soon as posible on this deck, i think we plan of win can be hold on and control de game till be can put a pack rat on play and start making tokens like crazy, bitterblossom tokens and lingerin can be used to chumblock and wait until a removal appeared, or using for protect pack rat tokens, its an alternative win-coin like Mindslaver is in a MonoU Tron
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Modern: RW R/W Burn WB B/W TokensXU MonuU Tron // UWX UW Tron R GoblinsW Soul SistersRWG Small ZooWUR WUR Geist/Control/Kiki-Resto Combo/NahiriUR Splinter Twin (90% Japanese)/ Grixis TwinRUB UR Delver / Grixis Delver UR Blue MoonBWU Ad NauseamWDeath and TaxesRUB Grixis ControlUMerfolksX Affinity RGB Living End UR Storm/PiF Combo RGX R/G TRON GWU Bant Eldrazi BW Eldrazi and Taxes RUBGoryos Vengeance UB Faeries Legacy:BRx Renimator Playing right now:Standard: Jeskai Control Modern; GoryosVengeance/UBFaeries/Affinity Legacy: BRx Reanimator Pauper: UR Drake (banned) Commander: Merieke Ri Berit Esper
if you think to follow this strategy wouldn't be a bad idea to maindeck some mass removal spells...
Ha! a tokens deck that Main-decks mass removal seems like a really bad idea
Blacklotus: Deck looks good, I would suggest adding in another Path (it is the best kill spell) instead of smother, and I would also suggest adding in another bitterblossom because in my testing you really really want to get a turn 2 Bitterblossom if possible, the later you put it down the exponentially worse it gets for you and the only way to do that is to play more copies. YMMV however, let us know how the testing goes.
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Hi all, this is my current deck which I have trouble facing mono blue mill and mono red burn as they act too fast before I can do anything. Leyline of Sanctity is quite rare in my local so is kinda out of question. Anyone can give me any suggestion to improve this deck against those two without compromising with other matchups.
Also, been testing pack rats to replace raise the alarm but both of them seem to have their pros and cons at different matchups and timing. Any idea of this too. Thanks alot
Hi all, this is my current deck which I have trouble facing mono blue mill and mono red burn as they act too fast before I can do anything. Leyline of Sanctity is quite rare in my local so is kinda out of question. Anyone can give me any suggestion to improve this deck against those two without compromising with other matchups.
Also, been testing pack rats to replace raise the alarm but both of them seem to have their pros and cons at different matchups and timing. Any idea of this too. Thanks alot
Against burn: use auriok champion. if you gain enough life they'll just run out of steam. 4x inquisition of kozilek and taking out thoughtseize will also help you stay alive longer. play your shock lands tapped if/when you can.
Did anyone else catch the reveal of the new Sorin in Khans? Here's a pic: pic.twitter.com/aNCgEb0vZo
Sorin, Solemn Visitor 2BW
Starting Loyalty 4
+1 Until your next turn, creatures you control get +1/+0 and gain lifelink.
-2 Put a 2/2 black vampire creature token with flying onto the battlefield.
-6 You get an emblem with "At the beginning of each opponent's upkeep, that player sacrifices a creature."
Seems really good for black-heavier builds and builds that run Intangible Virtue, as the +1 is "until your next turn." And the fact that the tokens from this Sorin fly seems really good too.
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EDH BGW Ghave, Guru of Spores WGB RUG Riku of Two Reflections GUR WB Teysa, Orzhov Scion BW
Works really well with Vigilance creatures (Intangible Virtue, Brimaz), and offsets lifegain if Bitterblossom is used (more than offsets because it is +1/+0.
The -2 is nothing special, but works well with the intended intangible virtue build this is built for.
The last ability is to work against certain competitive decks that throw few but large creatures at you, and can be activated the third turn out which is not too shabby.
Loyalty starting at 4 and costs 4 is a nice thing to see at well.
It is a win-more card, you have to have tokens out to make it work
I've been seeing Launch the Fleet played in standard to great effect recently along with Obelisk of Urd and I wonder if it might not be termed a 'win sooner' card more so than a 'win more' card. It seems to be very good in a list which can get two or three creatures out quickly - either you have an answer within a turn or two, or you lose.
I'm not really sure if it will pan out, but I'm probably going to test Launch and maybe Obelisk a bit just to see how they feel. (Obelisk in particular is probably reaching, but it is possible to try building around spirit tokens only. At the least I doubt you can play both and stick with the deck archetype.)
Personally tried Launch the Fleet myself, can be termed as "win sooner" but when you are stuck it do not help much. In standard now, the game tend to drag quite a bit but in modern turn 4-5 kill is quite frequent at least in my local. But will be glad to see you test result
I've been lurking in the modern deck primer pages for a while and I quickly fell in love with B/W tokens. After reading all of the Hipsters of the coast modern hero articles, I went out and bought the event deck and have upgraded it. I've tested it quite a bit with launch the fleet and pack rat. When it comes to launch the fleet I'm a little torn on this card. If I have a spectral procession out and a anthem or two, it will usually end the game right there. The problem is, it's a dead draw if you have no board presence. If you want to run it, I'd suggest keeping it down to a 1-2 of.
When it comes to pack rat, I'm just not a fan. I've tried it so many different ways but I just don't like it not being buffed by honour of the pure. Add the fact that the original token doesn't even get buffed by intangible virtue just seals it's fate for me. It sucks because I really like Pack Rat and want it to be good, but I just can't get there with it.
I would much rather run Hero Of Bladehold over Brimaz for one simple reason, abrupt decay. Hero is just better in every way in my eyes.
Now when it comes to the debate between new Sorin, Solemn Traveler, or Sorin, Lord Of Innistrad it's tricky. I prefer Lord Of Innistrad for his anthem. New sorin dodges Lighting Bolt and makes bigger vampires. I can't offer a opinion one way or the other on these two until I test with new Sorin.
I know I'm new here, and I'm not the most experienced player (Quit at the start of Onslaught, and started up again in Theros) and I'm positive there are a lot of token players who are miles ahead of me, but I hope to be a contributing member of this community and hopefully all us token lovers together can make this deck tier 1.
In testing I haven't had that much trouble against jund as long as I don't over extend into anger of the gods and thoughtseize out the right pieces. It's not that bad of a matchup, as far as I can tell.
My next upgrade will be a set of godless shrines. I don't know how badly this deck wants fetches right now. I don't want a lot of interference with suppression field in the board if I decide to keep it in there. Obviously a 4th thoughtsieze too. I'm also considering using midnight haunting simply for the instant speed (and it's a bit easier to cast than spectral procession)
The problem is we lose the attrition war vs the two most playd decks in the format (jund/junk)
So if we don't fix this, we won't be able to make it tier 1
Personally, I think the nemesis of BW tokens is Gifts Ungiven decks. Plain Jund/Junk aren't as bad I don't think (though if you overextend Maelstrom Pulse is brutal).
My sister had bought the Event Deck and I helped her upgrade it. I dont have the exact list atm, but what I have noticed there is a lot of times to where she (and myself) was playing off the top a lot. We did run more of a midrange strategy with Pack Rat and Liliana of the Veil amd more spot removal.
With what I remember running we had cut spectral procession and honor of the pure as I didn't want the deck to flood at 3cmc and honor is a nonbo with rat. It sucked though running Arid Mesa in stead ofMarsh flats(lack of ownership). Awkward Fetching and Thoughtseize ended usually being the undoing in some losses.
So how do we address the issues with life loss and topdeck mode? Some options I have thought of are: Dark Confidant, Some type of Arena effect ( this does clog the 3cmc slot though)
Life gain: Elspeth TirelSorin, Lone Wanderer
So anyinpit would be helpful. I am picking this up for a second modern deck, and find this deck appealing.
A. Affinity (?)
B. Infect
C. Faeries
D. ...tokens
Thanks!!
OLD SCHOOL 93/94 «The Pain Train» Black Sligh, Esper «Machine Gun» Artifacts, Jund «Psycho» Ponza-Disko.
What do you want Zealous Persecution to do? Do you want a field wipe? Do you want to buff creatures for lethal potential? Do you want a combat trick? If the answer is yes to all 3, persecution is good option against all those decks. If not, you should consider something more specific. The problem with persecution is that sometimes it doesn't help, and that you really need an army on your side for full value. I've completely cleared the board of Affinity and Infect players with it (it hits man lands, glistener elf, memnite, steal overseer, signal pest, etc), and I've had it sit dead in my hand to the same decks (ornithopter, etched champion, master of etherium, and phyrexian crusader). As long as you have have to buff, it's probably worth testing. I'm not sure how many creatures Tezz decks create.
Removing Raise the Alarm means the only token producers are Young Pyromancer, Sorin, Lord of Innistrad, and Lingering Souls. If you play a game, and never see a Young Pyromancer, you'll have just played a pretty poor burn deck. The main red cards that accelerate our goals of multiple creatures per spell, and disrupting our opponents are young pyro, wear//tear, and boros charm. Lightning Bolt is just a nice bonus. This may be total MTG heresy, but I don't think it's always mandatory to run 4. I do agree that removing Runechanter's Pike for Inquisition of Kozilek will probably make for a more consistent deck.
RW R/W Burn WB B/W TokensXU MonuU Tron // UWX UW Tron
R GoblinsW Soul SistersRWG Small ZooWUR WUR Geist/Control/Kiki-Resto Combo/NahiriUR Splinter Twin (90% Japanese)/ Grixis TwinRUB UR Delver / Grixis Delver UR Blue MoonBWU Ad NauseamWDeath and TaxesRUB Grixis ControlUMerfolksX Affinity RGB Living End UR Storm/PiF Combo RGX R/G TRON GWU Bant Eldrazi BW Eldrazi and Taxes RUBGoryos Vengeance UB Faeries
Legacy:BRx Renimator
Playing right now: Standard: Jeskai Control Modern; GoryosVengeance/UBFaeries/Affinity Legacy: BRx Reanimator Pauper: UR Drake (banned) Commander: Merieke Ri Berit Esper
This is my decklist using Bitterblossom + Pack Rat + Brimaz
5 removals, 7 anthems, 6 discards, 4 finishers, 18 tokens generators and pack rat as al alternative win-coin
3 Brimaz King of Oreskos
3 Pack Rat
Instants [8]
1 Dismember
1 Smother
3 Path to Exile
3 Zealous Persecution
Sorceries [12]
3 Thoughtseize
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Lingering Souls
4 Spectral Procession
4 Intangible Virtue
2 Honor of the Pure
3 Bitterblossom
Planeswalkers [1]
1 Elspeth Tirel
Lands [23]
1 Ghost Quarter
2 Vault of the Archangel
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Swamp
3 Caves of Koilos
4 Godless Shrine
4 Isolated Chapel
7 Plains
RW R/W Burn WB B/W TokensXU MonuU Tron // UWX UW Tron
R GoblinsW Soul SistersRWG Small ZooWUR WUR Geist/Control/Kiki-Resto Combo/NahiriUR Splinter Twin (90% Japanese)/ Grixis TwinRUB UR Delver / Grixis Delver UR Blue MoonBWU Ad NauseamWDeath and TaxesRUB Grixis ControlUMerfolksX Affinity RGB Living End UR Storm/PiF Combo RGX R/G TRON GWU Bant Eldrazi BW Eldrazi and Taxes RUBGoryos Vengeance UB Faeries
Legacy:BRx Renimator
Playing right now: Standard: Jeskai Control Modern; GoryosVengeance/UBFaeries/Affinity Legacy: BRx Reanimator Pauper: UR Drake (banned) Commander: Merieke Ri Berit Esper
I win the majority of my games without either, so the real question is, "does it win more games, and is it more consistent?" ie "what is the most optimal list"?
The deck list looks tight. We all need to start testing. We've got a BB build, the anthem-less pack rat build I wrote about (I'm shy 1 bob, but I sold some cards, so I can get it), and the young pyro build holiclol suggested. Go forth and play!
RW R/W Burn WB B/W TokensXU MonuU Tron // UWX UW Tron
R GoblinsW Soul SistersRWG Small ZooWUR WUR Geist/Control/Kiki-Resto Combo/NahiriUR Splinter Twin (90% Japanese)/ Grixis TwinRUB UR Delver / Grixis Delver UR Blue MoonBWU Ad NauseamWDeath and TaxesRUB Grixis ControlUMerfolksX Affinity RGB Living End UR Storm/PiF Combo RGX R/G TRON GWU Bant Eldrazi BW Eldrazi and Taxes RUBGoryos Vengeance UB Faeries
Legacy:BRx Renimator
Playing right now: Standard: Jeskai Control Modern; GoryosVengeance/UBFaeries/Affinity Legacy: BRx Reanimator Pauper: UR Drake (banned) Commander: Merieke Ri Berit Esper
Ha! a tokens deck that Main-decks mass removal seems like a really bad idea
Blacklotus: Deck looks good, I would suggest adding in another Path (it is the best kill spell) instead of smother, and I would also suggest adding in another bitterblossom because in my testing you really really want to get a turn 2 Bitterblossom if possible, the later you put it down the exponentially worse it gets for you and the only way to do that is to play more copies. YMMV however, let us know how the testing goes.
2 Hero of Bladehold
2 Mirran Crusader
1 Elspeth Tirel
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
3 Path to Exile
1 Dismember
2 Doom Blade
4 Lingering Souls
4 Spectral Procession
2 Raise the Alarm
3 Intangible Virtue
3 Honor of the Pure
4 Thoughtseize
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Zealous Persecution
3 Swamps
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Isolated Chapel
2 Caves of Koilos
4 Godless Shrine
2 Ghost Quarter
1 Vault of the Archangel
2 Stony Silence
3 Burrenton Forge-Tender
2 Sundering Growth
4 Runed Halo
2 Rest in Peace
2 Hushwing Gryff
Also, been testing pack rats to replace raise the alarm but both of them seem to have their pros and cons at different matchups and timing. Any idea of this too. Thanks alot
Against burn: use auriok champion. if you gain enough life they'll just run out of steam. 4x inquisition of kozilek and taking out thoughtseize will also help you stay alive longer. play your shock lands tapped if/when you can.
Sorin, Solemn Visitor 2BW
Starting Loyalty 4
+1 Until your next turn, creatures you control get +1/+0 and gain lifelink.
-2 Put a 2/2 black vampire creature token with flying onto the battlefield.
-6 You get an emblem with "At the beginning of each opponent's upkeep, that player sacrifices a creature."
Seems really good for black-heavier builds and builds that run Intangible Virtue, as the +1 is "until your next turn." And the fact that the tokens from this Sorin fly seems really good too.
EDH
BGW Ghave, Guru of Spores WGB
RUG Riku of Two Reflections GUR
WB Teysa, Orzhov Scion BW
Looking forward to Shu Yun and Alesha.
The -2 is nothing special, but works well with the intended intangible virtue build this is built for.
The last ability is to work against certain competitive decks that throw few but large creatures at you, and can be activated the third turn out which is not too shabby.
Loyalty starting at 4 and costs 4 is a nice thing to see at well.
URW Control
WBG Abzan
GRW Burn
EDH
GR Rosheen Meanderer
I've been seeing Launch the Fleet played in standard to great effect recently along with Obelisk of Urd and I wonder if it might not be termed a 'win sooner' card more so than a 'win more' card. It seems to be very good in a list which can get two or three creatures out quickly - either you have an answer within a turn or two, or you lose.
I'm not really sure if it will pan out, but I'm probably going to test Launch and maybe Obelisk a bit just to see how they feel. (Obelisk in particular is probably reaching, but it is possible to try building around spirit tokens only. At the least I doubt you can play both and stick with the deck archetype.)
Is there a big difference?
When it comes to pack rat, I'm just not a fan. I've tried it so many different ways but I just don't like it not being buffed by honour of the pure. Add the fact that the original token doesn't even get buffed by intangible virtue just seals it's fate for me. It sucks because I really like Pack Rat and want it to be good, but I just can't get there with it.
I would much rather run Hero Of Bladehold over Brimaz for one simple reason, abrupt decay. Hero is just better in every way in my eyes.
Now when it comes to the debate between new Sorin, Solemn Traveler, or Sorin, Lord Of Innistrad it's tricky. I prefer Lord Of Innistrad for his anthem. New sorin dodges Lighting Bolt and makes bigger vampires. I can't offer a opinion one way or the other on these two until I test with new Sorin.
I know I'm new here, and I'm not the most experienced player (Quit at the start of Onslaught, and started up again in Theros) and I'm positive there are a lot of token players who are miles ahead of me, but I hope to be a contributing member of this community and hopefully all us token lovers together can make this deck tier 1.
4 path to exile
3 inquisition of kozilek
3 thoughtsieze
3 honor of the pure
4 intangible virtue
4 spectral procession
4 lingering souls
4 raise the alarm
3 zealous persecution
1 elspeth, knight errant
3 windbrisk heights
1 vault of the archangel
4 isolated chapel
4 caves of koilos
2 city of brass
5 plains
4 swamp
3 kor firewalker
2 rest in peace
1 inquisition of kozilek
2 suppression field
3 duress
2 torpor orb
2 stony silence
My next upgrade will be a set of godless shrines. I don't know how badly this deck wants fetches right now. I don't want a lot of interference with suppression field in the board if I decide to keep it in there. Obviously a 4th thoughtsieze too. I'm also considering using midnight haunting simply for the instant speed (and it's a bit easier to cast than spectral procession)
Personally, I think the nemesis of BW tokens is Gifts Ungiven decks. Plain Jund/Junk aren't as bad I don't think (though if you overextend Maelstrom Pulse is brutal).
With what I remember running we had cut spectral procession and honor of the pure as I didn't want the deck to flood at 3cmc and honor is a nonbo with rat. It sucked though running Arid Mesa in stead ofMarsh flats(lack of ownership). Awkward Fetching and Thoughtseize ended usually being the undoing in some losses.
So how do we address the issues with life loss and topdeck mode? Some options I have thought of are: Dark Confidant, Some type of Arena effect ( this does clog the 3cmc slot though)
Life gain: Elspeth Tirel Sorin, Lone Wanderer
So anyinpit would be helpful. I am picking this up for a second modern deck, and find this deck appealing.
EDH Decks
Thanks To DarkNightCavalier For the Sig!!!