Weekend Update
I didnt have Autiok Champions this week since the guy i usually loan them from is on holliday. Replaced them with Kor Firewalker. Lets just say the Auriok is $18 for a reason.
FNM 3-1 for the night, 2nd Place
BUG Rock 2-0
Tokens vs Liliana
Relic of Progenitus vs Goyf followed with Bladehold
UR Delver 2-1
Grinded out with Lingering souls
Zealous Persecution
Ru Burn 1-2
Didnt draw any firewalkers
Stuck on 2 mana
Thune Pod 2-1
G1 W: Took his dork, honor, procession
G2 L: Illness in the ranks and Abrupt Decay
G3 W: 3 Path, 3 Doomblade. 2 Crusader. He was forced to block with his angel of thuun. I hit another 2 removal and another Crusader and that was game
Small Modern Open 2-2 ( 8th place was really a small event )
Storm Goblins 1-2 ( he actually won, turn 2 bloodmoon beat his all non red playing opponents )
Inquisition into more tokens
Turn 2 bloodmoon GG
Stuck on 2 mana for 4 turns with 2 lingering souls 2 doomblade, 2 Procession
Naya Humans 2-0
Too much removal, honor of the pure and removed 2 domris both games with inquisition.
UR Delver Burn Heavy 1-2
G1 L: Turn One delver into a redundant 2 snapcaster 3 mana leak hand. He hit for 12 with delver before i could resolve a spell and he played 4 Lightning Bolt, 4 Rift Bolt, 2 Pillar of Flame ect.
G2 W: We got a firewalker and relic of Progenitus, he had 2 TC's in hand and was too far behind by the time he could resolve one
G3 L: Guttersnipe vs Chalice of the void with 3 firewalkers in play, he dumped his 1 mana hand when i was on 8 to chalice of the void but the guttersnipe had just enough shocks with no removal from my side. Guttersnipe is a thing
UR Delver 2-1
He played a more traditional UR delver list that you see online but with Isochron Scepter in the side.
G1 W: we grinded long and hard for about 60% of his library and still came on top. Turns out spirits still have more card advantage than TC in the matchup.
G2 L: Felt almost like mono blue delver. Just a Delver and about 10000 counterspells and a few snapcasters. We were too far behind by the time we resolved our tokens again.
G3 W: Another long long grindfest. I held Engineered explosives back for the isochron scepter for 13 turns from my opening hand since we were able to resolve a lingering souls and a spectral procession. I ended the game on 10 health with a Sorin, 2 doomblades and a Runed halo in my hand. After another game where both libraries were at about 30%
Your mana is a bit spotty, you only have 22 lands and only 8 sources of untapped black on turn 1, so your Inquisition, Despise, and Duress are going to rot a lot of the time.
Caves of Koilos would really improve the mana I think. For this deck you want to try to get up as close to 14 untapped black sources for turn 1, and all the way up to 22 white sources to get to Spectral Procession on time, although 18 for Hero of Bladehold on time might be an easier goal, with the expectation that you're going to have to cast Spectral for 2WW occasionally.
4 Caves of Koilos
4 Godless Shrine
4 Isolated Chapel
2 Windbrisk Heights
1 Vault of the Archangel
5 Plains
2 Swamp
That gets you up to 10 untapped black at least, and 19 white sources.
I removed the Caves because I thought I might be taking too much damage from my land with Shocks AND Pains. Duress isn't mainboard, remember. I've found that casting IoK turn 1 has been possible most games. I'll try some different configurations. Are my spells alright?
Why only 3 Path to Exiles and 2 Zealous Persecutions main? Also, IMO Despise is more of a sideboard material. Is your meta filled with creature heavy decks?
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So, after 35 matches, and exactly 2 months of play, I am giving my BW Token deck a rest for a little while. I'll be moving on over to infect for the next two months
Before I do that, I want to share everything I have learned playing this deck (list at bottom of post).
My total stats:
Matches - Wins - Losses - Draws - Byes - Win %
35 - 17 - 15 - 3 - 0 - 48.57%
Deck value: $960 (foils included)
Generally speaking, I am used to a 2-2 total after 4 rounds at my local card store (competitive players).
When the deck misbehaves, the worst I've gone is 1-3. When the deck flourishes, I've gone 3-1/top 4/top 3.
BW Token decks tend to be very unforgiving when it comes to misplays. More-so than other decks. This is due to the fact that they are also relatively weak once you go through 2 bad draws. The deck is fair, so you need your draws when you need them. Once you fall behind, it is very hard to catch-up.
If you're tired, sick, or otherwise preoccupied, this deck will punish you for it.
In almost all cases, you are racing your opponent. Whether they know it or not. Turn 4-5 is your sweet spot. If you have not stabilized by then, or at least disrupted your opponent enough, you are in trouble of losing the game.
I have also noticed that this deck tends to get worse post-board, because most well equipped opponents have answers for your tokens/aggression.
Now, with all the negatives out of the way, I can discuss the strengths:
Delver tends to be a good match-up in most cases. UWR Delver is generally a good match. There is more difficulty when dealing with W/RUG Delver, but it all comes down to getting your flyers in the air and an anthem on the ground. 2/2 spirits are pretty much game-over for delvers. PtE is a good response for Goyf, etc...
Affinity isn't so bad, either. It can get grindy, but long games here are not necessarily bad. Make sure your SB can answer some artifacts like Battleskull.
POD can be a bad match. It really depends on how badly their decks are misbehaving. You need to up your hand hate, and removal. Without the birthing pod engine going, you can generally deal with POd decks well. You can't do much if they get their thune/feeder combo out.
Combo decks are hit-miss. Hand disruption can ruin their plans pretty quickly. And early flying threats are usually enough to seal the deal.
Aggro decks are interesting since most tend to ignore flying creatures. So long as you canr ace them with pump spells, you usually can win. Removing/discarding some key creatures also helps. Thalia is your worst enemy. Burn her at the stake when possible.
Sisters is a bad match-up in general. Its either going to be a long game, or a fast one. Either way, you will probably end-up on the wrong end of the life totals. BW tokens needs to work quickly. Once your oppoent gets nice life total padding, you start to run out of gas. Not to mention sisters has answers to your flyers.
Burn is interesting. You will almost certainly lose game one. Post board can get better. I run Auriok Champion in main, and she needs to stay there. Leyline is your only other options. Mull aggressively if need be, and get 4 of them (must).
Control is usually long, but you can pressure them pretty well. Some control hate in SB can be a nice answer. You have a lot of removal, so save up until they activate colonnade.
Mulligans: This is something you will have to master with this deck. I have started plenty of game with 1 mana hands, and won (fairly). I have also started 1 mana hands, and paid for it. You need to make sure you have enough1 drops (inquisition or two, path to exile) to deal with early threats. 4 mana hands are nice..ONLY if you have at least two big threats. Im talking Brimaz/spectral/hero. You will be punished if you keep hands with 3-4 lands, anthem or two, removal. Try not to mull below 6.
All in all, I enjoyed my BW token deck. Its a keeper, and I look forward to coming back to it in the future. For now, Im moving on to other tier-2 decks. After infect is bogle, then affinity, then burn
I was trying to get as much hand disruption mainboard as I could over other removal. However, if you'd run 4 Path and 4 Persecution I could move Despise to sideboard. Maybe 4 Path, 3 Persecution, 2 Despise mainboard?
I wouldn't go 4 Thoughtseize in MB. I found Tidehollow and inquisition to be perfect disruption spells as MB. Thoughtseize eats too much life, too quickly. I put 2 TS in my SB as extra removal when necessary.
At 5 mana, if you have not stabalized, Deathbringer will not do anything for you. At 5 mana, if you have stabilized, it may be an expensive anthem. you'll almost never use his black ability, and the white one is meh... At 5 mana Id rather cast zealus persecution (or two), or tap all creatures and activate vault of archangel.
You would be better served with six to eight fetches in place of most of the Chapels and Caves. You probably wouldn't need four Shrines either. You would also be able to cut a swamp.
Marsh Flats remains the go-to guy, but he's still a little more expensive than the Khans fetches; those would work well enough. Obviously, you'd need some of them to play six or more.
What I'm mostly seeing here is that there are a few spots where maybe I'd want a Disenchant back, I had it in there previously but replaced it in this iteration with Torpor Orb.
Since I already have Zealous main and Runed Halo, maybe I don't need Stony Silence since it only particularly helps against Affinity and Affinity is already a decent match-up for our deck?
I could use those slots to put in Rule of Law to help with some of the combo decks, or just put Sundering Growths back in. Could also scale Forge-Tender and/or Halo down to 2 slots.
What is the feedback on Monastery Mentor...? Bonkers or naw..i think BONKERS. Zealous + This card..ugh. value.
Coming from someone who has never played this deck (I play bogles) that card seems insane. I mean I don't know if there is a place to run it but if there is, it seems like a no brainer to run it.
BW Tokens needs cards that have instant effects on the field or have removal avoidance. Any card that comes in handy a turn after it is cast, is not a card BWT fully benefits from.
If Monastery Mentor was a 1-drop, then MAYBE it would be considered. But still weak because it would require you to play other gas during the same turn.
I shall now go on record as saying that this is going to be a Modern staple costing at least $20 by February 28th, 2015. I see the exact same knee-jerk arguments against it I've seen against everything from Tarmogoyf to Young Pyromancer. But prowess tokens in a deck with discard, anthems, removal, and token spells will be gonzo crazy nuts, and I'm getting my playset.
Don't anybody bother replying to this. It's a prophecy here to say I told you so.
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Not to mention BWT 3-drop spot is already cluttered. Top-decking him over brimaz, lingering, spectral is almost always strictly worse. Especially when you need your top-deck to be good.
Basically if this guy gets out by turn 3, and does not die before turn 4-5 with 2 triggers, he is a bomb. Steep gamble for this archetype. In UWR Delver, he is just stupid. They run heavy 1-2 drops. This is YP on steriods and they already have the mana base.
I just proxied up 4x Mentor(cutting all other creatures) into my B/W tokens build and play tested it against Pod and Affinity....as many others have said...If it lives Mentor is nuts...but IMHO any deck should likely be built around him, rather than just slot him into existing version (not saying there is a ton of value...as its basically an 'Army in Can' that just is OP)...but if Tokens is his home, then some radical changes would be well suited to make the most of him (much like Delver builds)- cheap spells are obvious value, therefore I think you want to draw more too...so perhaps adding Blue makes sense(and maybe other colors?)... needs more exploration...but dam if this isn't fun when WOTC makes new busted cards!!
I didnt have Autiok Champions this week since the guy i usually loan them from is on holliday. Replaced them with Kor Firewalker. Lets just say the Auriok is $18 for a reason.
FNM 3-1 for the night, 2nd Place
BUG Rock 2-0
Tokens vs Liliana
Relic of Progenitus vs Goyf followed with Bladehold
UR Delver 2-1
Grinded out with Lingering souls
Zealous Persecution
Ru Burn 1-2
Didnt draw any firewalkers
Stuck on 2 mana
Thune Pod 2-1
G1 W: Took his dork, honor, procession
G2 L: Illness in the ranks and Abrupt Decay
G3 W: 3 Path, 3 Doomblade. 2 Crusader. He was forced to block with his angel of thuun. I hit another 2 removal and another Crusader and that was game
Small Modern Open 2-2 ( 8th place was really a small event )
Storm Goblins 1-2 ( he actually won, turn 2 bloodmoon beat his all non red playing opponents
Inquisition into more tokens
Turn 2 bloodmoon GG
Stuck on 2 mana for 4 turns with 2 lingering souls 2 doomblade, 2 Procession
Naya Humans 2-0
Too much removal, honor of the pure and removed 2 domris both games with inquisition.
UR Delver Burn Heavy 1-2
G1 L: Turn One delver into a redundant 2 snapcaster 3 mana leak hand. He hit for 12 with delver before i could resolve a spell and he played 4 Lightning Bolt, 4 Rift Bolt, 2 Pillar of Flame ect.
G2 W: We got a firewalker and relic of Progenitus, he had 2 TC's in hand and was too far behind by the time he could resolve one
G3 L: Guttersnipe vs Chalice of the void with 3 firewalkers in play, he dumped his 1 mana hand when i was on 8 to chalice of the void but the guttersnipe had just enough shocks with no removal from my side. Guttersnipe is a thing
UR Delver 2-1
He played a more traditional UR delver list that you see online but with Isochron Scepter in the side.
G1 W: we grinded long and hard for about 60% of his library and still came on top. Turns out spirits still have more card advantage than TC in the matchup.
G2 L: Felt almost like mono blue delver. Just a Delver and about 10000 counterspells and a few snapcasters. We were too far behind by the time we resolved our tokens again.
G3 W: Another long long grindfest. I held Engineered explosives back for the isochron scepter for 13 turns from my opening hand since we were able to resolve a lingering souls and a spectral procession. I ended the game on 10 health with a Sorin, 2 doomblades and a Runed halo in my hand. After another game where both libraries were at about 30%
Caves of Koilos would really improve the mana I think. For this deck you want to try to get up as close to 14 untapped black sources for turn 1, and all the way up to 22 white sources to get to Spectral Procession on time, although 18 for Hero of Bladehold on time might be an easier goal, with the expectation that you're going to have to cast Spectral for 2WW occasionally.
4 Caves of Koilos
4 Godless Shrine
4 Isolated Chapel
2 Windbrisk Heights
1 Vault of the Archangel
5 Plains
2 Swamp
That gets you up to 10 untapped black at least, and 19 white sources.
Why only 3 Path to Exiles and 2 Zealous Persecutions main? Also, IMO Despise is more of a sideboard material. Is your meta filled with creature heavy decks?
Before I do that, I want to share everything I have learned playing this deck (list at bottom of post).
My total stats:
Matches - Wins - Losses - Draws - Byes - Win %
35 - 17 - 15 - 3 - 0 - 48.57%
Deck value: $960 (foils included)
Generally speaking, I am used to a 2-2 total after 4 rounds at my local card store (competitive players).
When the deck misbehaves, the worst I've gone is 1-3. When the deck flourishes, I've gone 3-1/top 4/top 3.
BW Token decks tend to be very unforgiving when it comes to misplays. More-so than other decks. This is due to the fact that they are also relatively weak once you go through 2 bad draws. The deck is fair, so you need your draws when you need them. Once you fall behind, it is very hard to catch-up.
If you're tired, sick, or otherwise preoccupied, this deck will punish you for it.
In almost all cases, you are racing your opponent. Whether they know it or not. Turn 4-5 is your sweet spot. If you have not stabilized by then, or at least disrupted your opponent enough, you are in trouble of losing the game.
I have also noticed that this deck tends to get worse post-board, because most well equipped opponents have answers for your tokens/aggression.
Now, with all the negatives out of the way, I can discuss the strengths:
Delver tends to be a good match-up in most cases. UWR Delver is generally a good match. There is more difficulty when dealing with W/RUG Delver, but it all comes down to getting your flyers in the air and an anthem on the ground. 2/2 spirits are pretty much game-over for delvers. PtE is a good response for Goyf, etc...
Affinity isn't so bad, either. It can get grindy, but long games here are not necessarily bad. Make sure your SB can answer some artifacts like Battleskull.
POD can be a bad match. It really depends on how badly their decks are misbehaving. You need to up your hand hate, and removal. Without the birthing pod engine going, you can generally deal with POd decks well. You can't do much if they get their thune/feeder combo out.
Combo decks are hit-miss. Hand disruption can ruin their plans pretty quickly. And early flying threats are usually enough to seal the deal.
Aggro decks are interesting since most tend to ignore flying creatures. So long as you canr ace them with pump spells, you usually can win. Removing/discarding some key creatures also helps. Thalia is your worst enemy. Burn her at the stake when possible.
Sisters is a bad match-up in general. Its either going to be a long game, or a fast one. Either way, you will probably end-up on the wrong end of the life totals. BW tokens needs to work quickly. Once your oppoent gets nice life total padding, you start to run out of gas. Not to mention sisters has answers to your flyers.
Burn is interesting. You will almost certainly lose game one. Post board can get better. I run Auriok Champion in main, and she needs to stay there. Leyline is your only other options. Mull aggressively if need be, and get 4 of them (must).
Control is usually long, but you can pressure them pretty well. Some control hate in SB can be a nice answer. You have a lot of removal, so save up until they activate colonnade.
Mulligans: This is something you will have to master with this deck. I have started plenty of game with 1 mana hands, and won (fairly). I have also started 1 mana hands, and paid for it. You need to make sure you have enough1 drops (inquisition or two, path to exile) to deal with early threats. 4 mana hands are nice..ONLY if you have at least two big threats. Im talking Brimaz/spectral/hero. You will be punished if you keep hands with 3-4 lands, anthem or two, removal. Try not to mull below 6.
All in all, I enjoyed my BW token deck. Its a keeper, and I look forward to coming back to it in the future. For now, Im moving on to other tier-2 decks. After infect is bogle, then affinity, then burn
1x Fetid Heath
2x Flooded Strand
4x Godless Shrine
3x Isolated Chapel
4x Marsh Flats
4x Plains
2x Polluted Delta
1x Swamp
2x Vault of the Archangel
Creature (11)
3x Auriok Champion
2x Brimaz, King of Oreskos
2x Hero of Bladehold
4x Tidehollow Sculler
2x Go for the Throat
4x Path to Exile
4x Zealous Persecution
Enchantment (4)
2x Honor of the Pure
2x Intangible Virtue
Sorcery (12)
4x Inquisition of Kozilek
4x Lingering Souls
4x Spectral Procession
2x Sundering Growth
3x Aven Mindcensor
2x Defense Grid
4x Leyline of Sanctity
2x Rule of Law
2x Thoughtseize
RUG Temur Deprive Delver
BUG Sultai Deprive Delver
Don't run Despise main. It's quite better having 4x Thoughtseize and 4x Inquisition of Kozilek. A set each of PtE and Zealous would do.
RUG Temur Deprive Delver
BUG Sultai Deprive Delver
RUG Temur Deprive Delver
BUG Sultai Deprive Delver
Hoping for a cure, or at least an outbreak.
Level 1 Judge (yay)
RUG Temur Deprive Delver
BUG Sultai Deprive Delver
You would be better served with six to eight fetches in place of most of the Chapels and Caves. You probably wouldn't need four Shrines either. You would also be able to cut a swamp.
Marsh Flats remains the go-to guy, but he's still a little more expensive than the Khans fetches; those would work well enough. Obviously, you'd need some of them to play six or more.
A Fetid Heath or two would not hurt either.
Frenzy-Affinity-Ghost Quarter-Rock-Tokens- RGWPhyrexian Zoo- WVial KnightsStandard:
BW Knights(Rotated)Pioneer: RW Knights - BW Rally Zombies - UW Heroes
Commander:WUG
Jenara, Asura of War- WGSigarda, Host of HeronsCasualties of economicsLegacy: Good-night, sweet prince. Mono-R Burn
Current SB Plan:
2 Torpor Orb
3 Leyline of Sanctity
2 Rest in Peace
3 Runed Halo
2 Stony Silence
So I'm going down the list of top decks on mtggoldfish, making notes about SB plans and which cards cover which decks.
Pod: Orb, RiP
Delver: BF-T, RiP
Bogles: Halo
Affinity: Stony, BF-T, Halo (Etched Champ)
Ascendancy: RiP, Halo
Scapeshift: Leyline, Halo
Merfolk: ? Nothing seems good here
Amulet: Leyline, Halo, maybe BF-T for post-board Clasm
Junk/Jund: RiP, Leyline
Twin: Orb, Halo
Burn: Leyline, BF-T
Control: ? Nothing seems good here. Halo?
What I'm mostly seeing here is that there are a few spots where maybe I'd want a Disenchant back, I had it in there previously but replaced it in this iteration with Torpor Orb.
Since I already have Zealous main and Runed Halo, maybe I don't need Stony Silence since it only particularly helps against Affinity and Affinity is already a decent match-up for our deck?
I could use those slots to put in Rule of Law to help with some of the combo decks, or just put Sundering Growths back in. Could also scale Forge-Tender and/or Halo down to 2 slots.
Coming from someone who has never played this deck (I play bogles) that card seems insane. I mean I don't know if there is a place to run it but if there is, it seems like a no brainer to run it.
Modern
UBR Grixis Control
U Merfolk
Pauper
U Mono U Delver
Ancestral Visions is freed
If Monastery Mentor was a 1-drop, then MAYBE it would be considered. But still weak because it would require you to play other gas during the same turn.
RUG Temur Deprive Delver
BUG Sultai Deprive Delver
I shall now go on record as saying that this is going to be a Modern staple costing at least $20 by February 28th, 2015. I see the exact same knee-jerk arguments against it I've seen against everything from Tarmogoyf to Young Pyromancer. But prowess tokens in a deck with discard, anthems, removal, and token spells will be gonzo crazy nuts, and I'm getting my playset.
Don't anybody bother replying to this. It's a prophecy here to say I told you so.
RUG Temur Deprive Delver
BUG Sultai Deprive Delver
Basically if this guy gets out by turn 3, and does not die before turn 4-5 with 2 triggers, he is a bomb. Steep gamble for this archetype. In UWR Delver, he is just stupid. They run heavy 1-2 drops. This is YP on steriods and they already have the mana base.
RUG Temur Deprive Delver
BUG Sultai Deprive Delver
RUG Temur Deprive Delver
BUG Sultai Deprive Delver