Looks very promising to me, I like the compromise between Treasure Cruise and Grim Lavamancer. The split between Pillar of Flame/Forked Bolt/Burst Lightning/Electrolyze can be adjusted as can the count of Mana Leak/Remand/Spell Snare/Spell Pierce/Cryptic Command.
I think our disagreement is where Goblin Guide fits, I call it aggro, you call it tempo. Tempo in my opinion does not actively deprive itself of card advantage but rather seeks ways to find card selection so that it can have the most efficient answer and threat. Think Legacy RUG Delver which is the definition of true tempo, which thrives because of access to card selection like Ponder and Brainstorm, which Modern Delver doesn't have yet. Aggro doesn't care about card disadvantage or giving the opponent cards, all it cares about the opponent's life total. Eidolon of the Great Revels is fantastic because left alone, both players effectively start the game with 10 health, a fight that burn can win every time. The lands from Goblin Guide doesn't matter if the game is going to end on turn 4 or 5.
If you really wanted to construct a Goblin Guide Delver shell, it would look very, very different from the current Delver lists, which are quite capable of grinding out due to the new Delve engines and cards that scale into late game like Cryptic Command and Keranos. I would look into Lava Spike, Rift Bolt, and Hellspark Elemental as ways to finish the game more quickly. But I don't think it would be very good because it can't play Eidolon of Great Revel and the 2 color mana base would deal far more damage to itself. The only blue spells that would be worth playing are Snapcaster Mage, Delver of Secrets, and maybe a couple of Spell Snares, at which point you really need to ask yourself if the splash really worth it.
Sorry if this is a bit off topic, but does anyone know of some alternate art for Insectile Aberration that I could proxy out (to represent flipped Delvers)?
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Limited enthusiast, Legacy miser, and begrudging Commander.
Sorry if this is a bit off topic, but does anyone know of some alternate art for Insectile Aberration that I could proxy out (to represent flipped Delvers)?
There's the checklist cards from Innistrad as an option.
Commander GUR Maelstrom Wanderer BWU Sydri, Galvanic Genius BGB Meren of Clan Nel Toth WGW Nazahn, Revered Bladesmith RRR Feldon of the Third Path WWW Heliod, God of the Sun
The debate about whether Goblin Guide is a tempo card notwithstanding, I have extensively tested the little guy in UR and RUG Delver, and he does work well in a certain sort of tempo game plan: play an early threat, then protect it and disrupt your opponent's game plan with countermagic and removal. This plan is fantastic against some decks - Tron, Storm, Scapeshift, etc, and not surprisingly Goblin Guide is exactly what you want in those matchups. You need early aggression because at some point you'll no longer be able to tap out on your own turn for fear of just losing on the spot. Against the grindy portion of the metagame, GG is awful though because it doesn't play the aggro-control role at all. Like Delver, guide is just an aggro card. Unlike Delver, guide requires a lot of work to keep the damage flowing. And the card disadvantage just buries the little guy because the game will go long (in these matchups) and you have to at least not get buried in card advantage. I wouldn't play Guide unless the metagame shifts away from Jund/Junk/BG/Pod/RUGTwin and towards Tron/Storm/Scapeshift/URTwin/combo.
As far as the semantics, I'd say that Guide is a fine though not spectacular tempo card (early aggression backed by countermagic), but an awful aggro/control card (versatile threats and answers that allow you to play either the aggro or control role exceptionally well, and in fact switch roles on a dime). These two strategies often get confused, but they are distinct (though the names I'm using for them aren't necessarily the best since everyone uses "tempo" to refer to both strategies). In these terms then, the problem with Goblin Guide is that Delver is forced to play somewhere between a tempo and an aggro/control plan because of the metagame, and Guide is only decent at one end of the continuum and awful at the other end.
Sorry if this is a bit off topic, but does anyone know of some alternate art for Insectile Aberration that I could proxy out (to represent flipped Delvers)?
There's the checklist cards from Innistrad as an option.
I personally prefer running 6-8 fetches, and 2 Lavamancers either main or in the board. The card is very good.
2 Threads 2 Hibernate is IMO overkill for green hate. You're also going to be siding in Blood Moon against most of those decks (Jund and Junk, at least). Yes I know Hibernate is good against Hexproof but I personally never see that deck. You could add Dragon's Claw or artifact hate in place of Hibernate.
I personally main deck Forked Bolt because I think the card is insane right now, but that's just me.
Also, if you're in Akron, you should come play Modern in Berea on Mondays.
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Limited enthusiast, Legacy miser, and begrudging Commander.
the only 2 good reasons I know of to run Gut Shot are for Pestermite and V-Clique
other than that, I'd almost always rather have Forked Bolt
Oh really?
Birds of Paradise
Noble Heirarch
Glistener Elf
Blighted Agent
Dryad Arbor
Inkmoth Nexus
Blinkmoth Nexus
Viscera Seer
Snapcaster Mage
Pestermite
Vendilion Clique
Grim Lavamancer
Silvergill Adept
Cursecatcher
Memnite
Steel Overseer
Vault Skirge
Signal Pest
Dark Confidant
Aven Mindcensor
Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
Delver of Secrets
Young Pyromancer
Serra Ascendant
Soul Warden
Soul's Attendant
Some of those are great tempo and resource exchanges (2 life to kill one of those). Also, it can be useful to kill planeswalkers, say Lili is at 1 after a -2 or an attack at her. You don't run it as a 4-of since sometimes it is just ok. I am a huge supporter of Forked Bolt and will always run it over Electrolyze in any Delver list but Gut Shot is really good when you can kill a Pod decks Noble or Bird AND play a Delver or kill BGx's Dark Confidant AND hold up mana for counters or run out a Young Pyromancer. Gut Shot can be a great tempo play and those are the type of resource exchanges we welcome playing Delver. I would even say there is room to run 1-2 Gut Shot along side 1-2 Forked Bolt between the MB and SB.
Anyone give any thought to the new delve spells from Khans (Dig Through Time & Treasure Cruise?) It doesn't take too long for UR Delver to fill the yard with fetches and cantrip spells, plus Thought Scour could be playable. The big downside obviously would be the anti-synergy with Snapcaster and vulnerability to GY hate. I might try one as a one-of to test if they are too clunky.
Anyone give any thought to the new delve spells from Khans (Dig Through Time & Treasure Cruise?) It doesn't take too long for UR Delver to fill the yard with fetches and cantrip spells, plus Thought Scour could be playable. The big downside obviously would be the anti-synergy with Snapcaster and vulnerability to GY hate. I might try one as a one-of to test if they are too clunky.
The cool thing about Treasure Cruise vs. Snapcaster is that you can choose to leave 1 Bolt in the yard to feed Snappy, and feed your Cruise with the rest. It's also important to note that while them Relic'ing you hurts Cruise, they can't Relic in response to you attempting to pay by Delving. And i mean, if you have a Snapcaster in hand that you have the opportunity to cast and FB a bolt with, likely you don't need the CA from Cruise, yet. You could likely just wait until Snapcaster dies or something. (His death replaces the bolt. So, if you use him as a Flash blocker, he replaces the bolt, anyways.) I agree that it can be awkward, but that's why Cruise will likely be playable as a 2-3x.
And if you expect a Relic to come in (i think it's been dropping out of SB's lately), you can always side out the cruises. They seem pretty easy to side out for "good" cards for the MU, since they don't provide you any 'action'.
4 Delver of Secrets
1 Grim Lavamancer
4 Snapcaster Mage
3 Young Pyromancer
Non-creature Spells
2 Burst Lightning
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Mana Leak
4 Remand
4 Serum Visions
1 Spell Pierce
3 Spell Snare
2 Thought Scour
2 Treasure Cruise
1 Flooded Strand
5 Island
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Mountain
1 Polluted Delta
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Steam Vents
Looks very promising to me, I like the compromise between Treasure Cruise and Grim Lavamancer. The split between Pillar of Flame/Forked Bolt/Burst Lightning/Electrolyze can be adjusted as can the count of Mana Leak/Remand/Spell Snare/Spell Pierce/Cryptic Command.
If you really wanted to construct a Goblin Guide Delver shell, it would look very, very different from the current Delver lists, which are quite capable of grinding out due to the new Delve engines and cards that scale into late game like Cryptic Command and Keranos. I would look into Lava Spike, Rift Bolt, and Hellspark Elemental as ways to finish the game more quickly. But I don't think it would be very good because it can't play Eidolon of Great Revel and the 2 color mana base would deal far more damage to itself. The only blue spells that would be worth playing are Snapcaster Mage, Delver of Secrets, and maybe a couple of Spell Snares, at which point you really need to ask yourself if the splash really worth it.
4 Delver
4 Young Pyromancer
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Serum Visions
4 Lightning Bolt
1 Pillar of Flame
2 Forked Bolt
2 Vapor Snag
2 Spell Pierce
2 Remand
1 Negate
1 Dismember
3 Electrolyze
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
1 Batterskull
8 fetch
4 Steam Vents
7 basics
--
2 Grim Lavamancer
1 Shatterstorm
3 Smash to Smithereens
2 Dragon's Claw
2 Relic
2 Dispel
2 Blood Moon
1 Combust
There's the checklist cards from Innistrad as an option.
GURB Grixis/Jund Shadow
RBG Dredge
xUx U Ballista Tron
Commander
GUR Maelstrom Wanderer
BWU Sydri, Galvanic Genius
BGB Meren of Clan Nel Toth
WGW Nazahn, Revered Bladesmith
RRR Feldon of the Third Path
WWW Heliod, God of the Sun
4x Delver of Secrets
4x SnapCaster Mage
4x Young Pyromancer
2x Illusory Angel
Instants-19
4x Lightning Bolt
3x Mana Leak
3x Remand
3x Vapor Snag
2x Spell Pierce
2x Electrolyze
2x Spell Snare
4x Serum Visions
4x Gitaxian Probe
Land-19
6x Island
4x Steam Vents
4x Scalding Tarn
3x Mountain
2x Sulfur Falls
2x Blood moon
2x Threads of Disloyalty
2x Combust
2x Hibernation
1x Electrolyze
2x Shatterstorm
1x Dispel
2x Relic of progenitus
1x Keranos, God of Storms
Any thoughts?
Decks
Modern
BGR Jund RGB
BW Eldrazi and Taxes WB
BWGAbzan Company GWB
Mtgo Modern
G Company Elves G
As far as the semantics, I'd say that Guide is a fine though not spectacular tempo card (early aggression backed by countermagic), but an awful aggro/control card (versatile threats and answers that allow you to play either the aggro or control role exceptionally well, and in fact switch roles on a dime). These two strategies often get confused, but they are distinct (though the names I'm using for them aren't necessarily the best since everyone uses "tempo" to refer to both strategies). In these terms then, the problem with Goblin Guide is that Delver is forced to play somewhere between a tempo and an aggro/control plan because of the metagame, and Guide is only decent at one end of the continuum and awful at the other end.
Yes, I am aware of those options. I was interested in alternate art.
I personally prefer running 6-8 fetches, and 2 Lavamancers either main or in the board. The card is very good.
2 Threads 2 Hibernate is IMO overkill for green hate. You're also going to be siding in Blood Moon against most of those decks (Jund and Junk, at least). Yes I know Hibernate is good against Hexproof but I personally never see that deck. You could add Dragon's Claw or artifact hate in place of Hibernate.
I personally main deck Forked Bolt because I think the card is insane right now, but that's just me.
Also, if you're in Akron, you should come play Modern in Berea on Mondays.
other than that, I'd almost always rather have Forked Bolt
Oh really?
Birds of Paradise
Noble Heirarch
Glistener Elf
Blighted Agent
Dryad Arbor
Inkmoth Nexus
Blinkmoth Nexus
Viscera Seer
Snapcaster Mage
Pestermite
Vendilion Clique
Grim Lavamancer
Silvergill Adept
Cursecatcher
Memnite
Steel Overseer
Vault Skirge
Signal Pest
Dark Confidant
Aven Mindcensor
Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
Delver of Secrets
Young Pyromancer
Serra Ascendant
Soul Warden
Soul's Attendant
Some of those are great tempo and resource exchanges (2 life to kill one of those). Also, it can be useful to kill planeswalkers, say Lili is at 1 after a -2 or an attack at her. You don't run it as a 4-of since sometimes it is just ok. I am a huge supporter of Forked Bolt and will always run it over Electrolyze in any Delver list but Gut Shot is really good when you can kill a Pod decks Noble or Bird AND play a Delver or kill BGx's Dark Confidant AND hold up mana for counters or run out a Young Pyromancer. Gut Shot can be a great tempo play and those are the type of resource exchanges we welcome playing Delver. I would even say there is room to run 1-2 Gut Shot along side 1-2 Forked Bolt between the MB and SB.
had me lol pretty good....
UWRMiraclesRWU
Modern
UWRControlRWU
Standard
Ummm no...
Trade Thread
The cool thing about Treasure Cruise vs. Snapcaster is that you can choose to leave 1 Bolt in the yard to feed Snappy, and feed your Cruise with the rest. It's also important to note that while them Relic'ing you hurts Cruise, they can't Relic in response to you attempting to pay by Delving. And i mean, if you have a Snapcaster in hand that you have the opportunity to cast and FB a bolt with, likely you don't need the CA from Cruise, yet. You could likely just wait until Snapcaster dies or something. (His death replaces the bolt. So, if you use him as a Flash blocker, he replaces the bolt, anyways.) I agree that it can be awkward, but that's why Cruise will likely be playable as a 2-3x.
And if you expect a Relic to come in (i think it's been dropping out of SB's lately), you can always side out the cruises. They seem pretty easy to side out for "good" cards for the MU, since they don't provide you any 'action'.
Sig courtesy of DOLZero
[82/360] Custom Cube
Blog about the Custom Cube
See reddit thread here.
Finished second in a ~50 player event today with.
4 Delver of Secrets
1 Grim Lavamancer
4 Snapcaster Mage
3 Young Pyromancer
Non-Creature Spells
2 Burst Lightning
4 Gitaxian probe
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Mana Leak
4 Remand
4 Serum Visions
1 Sleight of Hand
1 Spell Pierce
3 Spell Snare
1 Thoughtscour
2 Treasure Cruise
5 Island
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Mountain
1 Polluted Delta
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Steam Vents
2 Blood Moon
1 Combust
1 Counterflux
1 Dispel
2 Grim Lavamancer
3 Magma Spray
1 Negate
2 Spellskite
1 Treasure Cruise
1 Vedalken Shackles
Very straightforward but ask questions if you have them.
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