Yeah a lot really needs to go right for you and wrong for your opponent to win the uwr matchup. They play a deck that shares some cards with ours and then the rest of them are good (only half kidding). Blood moon really helps if you can resolve it, but the match is still difficult after that. Not understanding the 1 sideboard pyromancer or the maindeck peek.
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When people call for a ban on treasure cruise: "But I don't WANNA draw 3 cards!"
The UWR match up is the worst match up playing SSS but it improves alot with young pyro. The plan is kinda simple, always play one threat at a time, and try to protect it. Playing around electrolyze is extremely important.
I'm pretty sure SSS has worse match up against UWR than Pyro, it's close to unwinnable because UWR plays a better instant speed game. At least with Pyro sometimes you can ride 1 Pyro to victory... can't do that with Sprites. SSS also lacks the Serum Visions for digging sideboard cards and the Gitaxian Probes to formulate a game plan against UWR, which is loses to late game since it doesn't run any specific sideboard hate.
I'm pretty sure SSS has worse match up against UWR than Pyro, it's close to unwinnable because UWR plays a better instant speed game. At least with Pyro sometimes you can ride 1 Pyro to victory... can't do that with Sprites. SSS also lacks the Serum Visions for digging sideboard cards and the Gitaxian Probes to formulate a game plan against UWR, which is loses to late game since it doesn't run any specific sideboard hate.
Uwr is very tough for the sss version. I read somewhere that a person put 2 neurok commando in their side board for uwr.
I have seen grixis lists, not recently thought...
I like the idea and my switch (starting from the almost stocked UR build):
- Pyro --> Bobs
- Vapor snag --> dismember/smother
- pierce + electrolyze -> Tseize
- maybe lower the remand/leak count --> more distruption
My concern is about mana base, the fetch support is awful but maybe isn't a real nightmare build a stable mana base, perhaps a 20 lands count?
- L
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"The problem isn't when Scissors says Rock is overpowered, it's when Paper says it is."
-Mark Rosewater
Well I put this together after thinking about adding dark confidant. A It probably can be tweaked better. I have not really had a chance to play it much I feel like it could be better though.
Since we have red, I realized that Terminates could be played instead of Dismember or Smother. However, both are easier on the mana instead of Terminate. Also I think Cavern of Souls is an interesting addition since all the creatures are human. It also color fixes for all three and forces through counter magic. The black does give us access to Creeping Tar Pit. However, it does come into play tapped and is more mana intensive to use than Mutavault, but it does have more power and evasion. It also taps for colored mana. I also swapped Thoughtseizes out for Inquistion, to reduce life payment as the manabase and probes can stack up. I will add though I am not sure about the Gitaxian Probes especially with targeted discard. The discard makes my opponent reveal their hand and disrupts them as well. The probes do work well with Young Pyromancer to make almost free tokens.
Well I put this together after thinking about adding dark confidant. A It probably can be tweaked better. I have not really had a chance to play it much I feel like it could be better though.
Since we have red, I realized that Terminates could be played instead of Dismember or Smother. However, both are easier on the mana instead of Terminate. Also I think Cavern of Souls is an interesting addition since all the creatures are human. It also color fixes for all three and forces through counter magic. The black does give us access to Creeping Tar Pit. However, it does come into play tapped and is more mana intensive to use than Mutavault, but it does have more power and evasion. It also taps for colored mana. I also swapped Thoughtseizes out for Inquistion, to reduce life payment as the manabase and probes can stack up. I will add though I am not sure about the Gitaxian Probes especially with targeted discard. The discard makes my opponent reveal their hand and disrupts them as well. The probes do work well with Young Pyromancer to make almost free tokens.
Any deck that deviates from Delver of Secrets needs to resolve this dilemma: How do you play a threat without overloading the 2 CMC slot?
If you're going Dark Confidant, you need to cut Young Pyromancer, not Delver of Secrets. The deck has enough 2 CMC cards as is, with Remand, Snapcaster, Young Pyromancer, no need to add Terminate on top of it. There's probably an argument made for going BUG over Grixis if going the Dark Confidant route because of the better mana base and access to Abrupt Decay, one of the premier removals of the format.
Well I put this together after thinking about adding dark confidant. A It probably can be tweaked better. I have not really had a chance to play it much I feel like it could be better though.
Since we have red, I realized that Terminates could be played instead of Dismember or Smother. However, both are easier on the mana instead of Terminate. Also I think Cavern of Souls is an interesting addition since all the creatures are human. It also color fixes for all three and forces through counter magic. The black does give us access to Creeping Tar Pit. However, it does come into play tapped and is more mana intensive to use than Mutavault, but it does have more power and evasion. It also taps for colored mana. I also swapped Thoughtseizes out for Inquistion, to reduce life payment as the manabase and probes can stack up. I will add though I am not sure about the Gitaxian Probes especially with targeted discard. The discard makes my opponent reveal their hand and disrupts them as well. The probes do work well with Young Pyromancer to make almost free tokens.
Any deck that deviates from Delver of Secrets needs to resolve this dilemma: How do you play a threat without overloading the 2 CMC slot?
If you're going Dark Confidant, you need to cut Young Pyromancer, not Delver of Secrets. The deck has enough 2 CMC cards as is, with Remand, Snapcaster, Young Pyromancer, no need to add Terminate on top of it. There's probably an argument made for going BUG over Grixis if going the Dark Confidant route because of the better mana base and access to Abrupt Decay, one of the premier removals of the format.
The deck list I have does have delvers. It does run a lot of 2 cmc spells, but most the better spells are 2 cmc in modern. I could run dismember and have a 1 cmc removal or pay more to less the life loss. However terminate hits any thing. Even with bug your still looking at a lot of 2 cmc spells abrupt decay is 2 cmc. You loose Young Pyromancer for Tarmogoyf. My deck is something I threw together. Lowering the cmc would be nice just not sure what cards would make the best candidates. I thinking going Grixis you want Young Pyromancer, Dark Confidant and Delver of Secrets, and Snapcaster Mage is just a good card.
A MODO player recently puts up some consistent good results with a list with an higher overall cmc, with the good ol' 19 lands (and no fetches).
For example he runs 2 Cryptic Command and 2 Electrolyze MD.
What do you guy think? Is it the way to go (maybe raising to 20 lands too) to get some CA against grindy Jundish decks?
- L
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"The problem isn't when Scissors says Rock is overpowered, it's when Paper says it is."
-Mark Rosewater
A MODO player recently puts up some consistent good results with a list with an higher overall cmc, with the good ol' 19 lands (and no fetches).
For example he runs 2 Cryptic Command and 2 Electrolyze MD.
What do you guy think? Is it the way to go (maybe raising to 20 lands too) to get some CA against grindy Jundish decks?
- L
When M15 is released, I'm definitely in favor of a higher curve. I've tested Illusory Angel over grim lavamancer, and it's been great. Another alternative I haven't tested is Goblin Rabblemaster. Our deck wants to establish a fast clock and keep the board clear, and Rabblemaster on his own kills faster than even Geist of Saint Traft if we can keep the board clear. We also might want to play Stoke the Flames if Rabblemaster is in. I definitely like just two cryptics rather than a playset, it's not something you want clogging your hand early on.
I'm probably doing something wrong, but like 75% of the time I cast a remand I just wish it was a more "hard" counter, like a mana leak or something. Is it better in true control decks where you expect to hit all your land drops so it's just a stop gap on the way to better cards?
I'm probably doing something wrong, but like 75% of the time I cast a remand I just wish it was a more "hard" counter, like a mana leak or something. Is it better in true control decks where you expect to hit all your land drops so it's just a stop gap on the way to better cards?
In my experience, Remand is actually really bad in hard control decks because it is bad in the late-game and they can't take advantage of the delayed turn. It works well in Tempo because you can deal them a few points of damage while they are stumbling.
Remand is awful against faster decks like Burn and Affinity where it doesn't slow down them at all, and the draw isn't helpful for developing your board. It's reasonable against control because you use it on their important spells that affect their board like Vendilion Clique or Ajani Vengeant, and since they're running Snapcaster Mage, it's a way to 0 for 1 the flashback. It's best against clunky decks like Mono U Tron and sometimes Melira Pod or Splinter Twin when you're ahead on board since they run a lot of 3 CMC+ cards. If you're behind on board, Mana Leaking a Splinter Twin or Birthing Pod is much better than Remanding it.
Yah those are all good points, I'm probably just remembering the bad times more than when it's good, it just seems like many times they're just gonna recast it the next turn and I wish I could actually stop it. Not that we have a lot of other options for counterspells though.
Whats up fellas, whats your opinion on running two cascade bluff?
maybe cut two steam vents or falls?
Cascade is strictly worse than falls (both bad when alone in multiple, but the cascade produces coloured mana only in double fashion, not the best given all the 1 cmc spells we have). Steam vents are crucial thanks to the fetchability and that interact well with falls.
I don't think the change is due to budget constriction given the price of cascades so why play them?
- L
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"The problem isn't when Scissors says Rock is overpowered, it's when Paper says it is."
-Mark Rosewater
Cascade is strictly worse than falls (both bad when alone in multiple, but the cascade produces coloured mana only in double fashion, not the best given all the 1 cmc spells we have). Steam vents are crucial thanks to the fetchability and that interact well with falls.
I don't think the change is due to budget constriction given the price of cascades so why play them?
makes sense thanks man, got another question for you since its seems like you know alot haha
what do you think about splashing white just for helix and or boros.. nothing else cuz then you might as well play uwr control
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Uwr is very tough for the sss version. I read somewhere that a person put 2 neurok commando in their side board for uwr.
I loathe creatures! Praise Prison and Land Destruction!
My Peasant Cube (looking for feedback)
I have seen grixis lists, not recently thought...
I like the idea and my switch (starting from the almost stocked UR build):
- Pyro --> Bobs
- Vapor snag --> dismember/smother
- pierce + electrolyze -> Tseize
- maybe lower the remand/leak count --> more distruption
My concern is about mana base, the fetch support is awful but maybe isn't a real nightmare build a stable mana base, perhaps a 20 lands count?
- L
"The problem isn't when Scissors says Rock is overpowered, it's when Paper says it is."
-Mark Rosewater
3 Dark Confidant
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Young Pyromancer
4 Delver of Secrets
Instants - 13
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Remand
3 Mana Leak
3 Terminate
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Serum Visions
Lands - 20
3 Steam Vents
2 Watery Grave
1 Blood Crypt
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Misty Rainforest
2 Cavern of Souls
2 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Island
1 Mountain
Since we have red, I realized that Terminates could be played instead of Dismember or Smother. However, both are easier on the mana instead of Terminate. Also I think Cavern of Souls is an interesting addition since all the creatures are human. It also color fixes for all three and forces through counter magic. The black does give us access to Creeping Tar Pit. However, it does come into play tapped and is more mana intensive to use than Mutavault, but it does have more power and evasion. It also taps for colored mana. I also swapped Thoughtseizes out for Inquistion, to reduce life payment as the manabase and probes can stack up. I will add though I am not sure about the Gitaxian Probes especially with targeted discard. The discard makes my opponent reveal their hand and disrupts them as well. The probes do work well with Young Pyromancer to make almost free tokens.
I loathe creatures! Praise Prison and Land Destruction!
My Peasant Cube (looking for feedback)
Any deck that deviates from Delver of Secrets needs to resolve this dilemma: How do you play a threat without overloading the 2 CMC slot?
If you're going Dark Confidant, you need to cut Young Pyromancer, not Delver of Secrets. The deck has enough 2 CMC cards as is, with Remand, Snapcaster, Young Pyromancer, no need to add Terminate on top of it. There's probably an argument made for going BUG over Grixis if going the Dark Confidant route because of the better mana base and access to Abrupt Decay, one of the premier removals of the format.
The deck list I have does have delvers. It does run a lot of 2 cmc spells, but most the better spells are 2 cmc in modern. I could run dismember and have a 1 cmc removal or pay more to less the life loss. However terminate hits any thing. Even with bug your still looking at a lot of 2 cmc spells abrupt decay is 2 cmc. You loose Young Pyromancer for Tarmogoyf. My deck is something I threw together. Lowering the cmc would be nice just not sure what cards would make the best candidates. I thinking going Grixis you want Young Pyromancer, Dark Confidant and Delver of Secrets, and Snapcaster Mage is just a good card.
I loathe creatures! Praise Prison and Land Destruction!
My Peasant Cube (looking for feedback)
For example he runs 2 Cryptic Command and 2 Electrolyze MD.
What do you guy think? Is it the way to go (maybe raising to 20 lands too) to get some CA against grindy Jundish decks?
- L
"The problem isn't when Scissors says Rock is overpowered, it's when Paper says it is."
-Mark Rosewater
When M15 is released, I'm definitely in favor of a higher curve. I've tested Illusory Angel over grim lavamancer, and it's been great. Another alternative I haven't tested is Goblin Rabblemaster. Our deck wants to establish a fast clock and keep the board clear, and Rabblemaster on his own kills faster than even Geist of Saint Traft if we can keep the board clear. We also might want to play Stoke the Flames if Rabblemaster is in. I definitely like just two cryptics rather than a playset, it's not something you want clogging your hand early on.
In my experience, Remand is actually really bad in hard control decks because it is bad in the late-game and they can't take advantage of the delayed turn. It works well in Tempo because you can deal them a few points of damage while they are stumbling.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
maybe cut two steam vents or falls?
Modern Only
Currently Running:
BG Midrange
Cascade is strictly worse than falls (both bad when alone in multiple, but the cascade produces coloured mana only in double fashion, not the best given all the 1 cmc spells we have). Steam vents are crucial thanks to the fetchability and that interact well with falls.
I don't think the change is due to budget constriction given the price of cascades so why play them?
- L
"The problem isn't when Scissors says Rock is overpowered, it's when Paper says it is."
-Mark Rosewater
I don't think the change is due to budget constriction given the price of cascades so why play them?
makes sense thanks man, got another question for you since its seems like you know alot haha
what do you think about splashing white just for helix and or boros.. nothing else cuz then you might as well play uwr control
Modern Only
Currently Running:
BG Midrange
Modern Only
Currently Running:
BG Midrange
I loathe creatures! Praise Prison and Land Destruction!
My Peasant Cube (looking for feedback)