P.S. So far my record against all variants of Burn is still perfect (in matches, hehe)
Is that all with MonoG? Burn has been owning me with UG, which is part of the reason for switching back.
Interestingly, way back in standard for the brief time that Cathedral of War was legal at the same time as infect, delver was dominating the format and the MonoG Cathedral deck did really well against it. Who knows, maybe history is repeating
Yupyup, with MonoGreen Infect (no cash for Hierarchs haha). It still hurts taking 6 damage to Dismember an Eidolon haha >.< Some games that I won I intentionally chain-pumped my Infect dork and he'd chase and kill it with burn spells, then I'd pretend that my attempt to win failed but deep inside I really couldn't kill my opponent and I'm just happy I got 3 burn spells away from my face haha. :))
Is it wise to board in a couple of Tormod's Crypt against decks with Snapcaster Mage and Treasure Cruise? Or would that be too preemptive? :/
Depends on your meta really. If I'm playing the Mono G Infect I always try to fit in 3 Tormod's Crypt in my deck for any blue deck match up. Snap is just a pain to work around. Also the card Wild Defiance is pretty good
This is probably a stupid question, but is white not a viable splash?
Because you don't gain any viable Infect beaters by adding white.
If you add blue you get Blighted Agent. If you add black on top of that you get Plague Stinger (and a better sideboard). If you add white you get...Lost Leonin? Or you continue using Necropede lol.
You don't need Gods Willing for protection since you already have 4 Vines and 4 Blessing. If your reason for playing Gods Willing is that it makes your creature unblockable, cut out the middleman and play an unblockable creature (i.e. Blighted Agent) instead.
Ajani is going to be really hard to cast, given that this deck's main color is green, plays at least 4 colorless lands, and Ajani himself costs 2 mana in the splash color.
Round 1: 2-0 against American Control (really good match-up)
Round 2: 1-2 against UR Twin (got out-Spellskite-ed; he should have been dead. Close game)
Round 3: 2-1 against Burn (WOOO STILL PERFECT RECORD XD)
Round 4: 1-2 against Melira Pod (Game 1 was lost w/ him at 9 poison; G2 was super-grindy flinging removal back and forth eventually a Rancored Glistener Elf went to town. G3 he went aggro while I got 2 Nature's CLaim dead in my hand.
I have to admit, I was happy with Necropede since it keeps Burn's early creatures at bay. Wasn't happy with Marrow Shards with testing against UR/w Delver (with Treasure Cruise; by the time he attacked the Delver's already flipped and he never includes Young Pyromancer
I'm thinking of putting 2 Wild Defiance in its place. I've always wanted to use this but I've had doubts of how to use it effectively. Am I right to think that I'd play this first before my infect dorks? Wouldn't this dud against UR decks since they'll counter it anyway, plus it's sorcery speed unlike your 1cc protection spells? What if my opponent is Zoo who can race me both board and to da face?
As you can see; Im not adaptable to changes in the SB >.< (I like having a consistent routine to follow depending on my match-ups) I need help o.O How do I SB this card? Like what should I take out, what decks do I bring it in against and how do I maximize it? Feedback is much appreciated!!
Wanting to get a sideboard guide isn't good man. I understand the want for it but it'll help you get better as a player if you understand your own sideboard and how to side. Remember that you're siding against their sideboarded deck and work from there. Practice a bunch and you'll get better
I have to admit, I was happy with Necropede since it keeps Burn's early creatures at bay. Wasn't happy with Marrow Shards with testing against UR/w Delver (with Treasure Cruise; by the time he attacked the Delver's already flipped and he never includes Young Pyromancer
Marrow Shards has been a bit hit or miss for me too. I am scrapping it. The best card to fill the slot in the sideboard is probably Spellskite.
I'm thinking of putting 2 Wild Defiance in its place. I've always wanted to use this but I've had doubts of how to use it effectively. Am I right to think that I'd play this first before my infect dorks? Wouldn't this dud against UR decks since they'll counter it anyway, plus it's sorcery speed unlike your 1cc protection spells? What if my opponent is Zoo who can race me both board and to da face?
Hello, I had a few questions if those of you with experience with the decks can provide some input (: Lists are below for reference.
1. I recently got Noble Hierarchs and I have found them to be quite useful in the Mono Green build with the extra mana allowing to fight spell wars to save infect guys. Do you think it is worth it? (Cuts were 1 Cathedral, 2 Rancor, 1 Groundswell)
2. Does mono black infect do well against the aggressive strategies of UR Delver and Burn? It looks pretty good on paper with cheap removal, disruption and resilient threats though treasure cruise against hand disruption is very good. (I've shown CLYDE's mono-black list from ~August as an example)
1. I recently got Noble Hierarchs and I have found them to be quite useful in the Mono Green build with the extra mana allowing to fight spell wars to save infect guys. Do you think it is worth it? (Cuts were 1 Cathedral, 2 Rancor, 1 Groundswell)
Their was a MonoG deck not long ago that won a 187 person event that was running 4 Noble Hierarch, so it seems to work, but is less important than in UGx. MonoG needs 4 Rancor though as a way to get past blockers.
Noble Hierarch is a house with the exalted and ability to add mana.
I do have to agree that Wild Defiance does look like an interesting sideboard option. Always feels like the bigest problem I have with infect post-board is the fact that all my guys are 1/1, and that would help tremendously against red in particular.
Thanks for the link. I've been very unimpressed with Rancor in my matches. It has done work in some but in others it feels like a liability, especially drawing 2 of them when I need threats or need to protect them. Not to mention that it is a bit mana-intensive with Inkmoth.
@Ikkynikinae
I have yet to resolve a Wild Defiance. While it should be good against UWR Control and Twin, seems a bit too slow against Delver and Burn and I'm not sure it's the solution for those matchups :/
So if you all have not gotten the chance, later this week you should rewatch the Star City Games open legacy event this past weekend. Tom Ross was piloting Infect, and showed all the true housing power of the 1 of Become Immense. I think this card as a 1 of is huge in almost every way. Tom had burned through 2 vines, numerous counter spells, but still stole a kill from a becomes immense and double exalted (the other guys just laughed and scooped). Given it was legacy where there are cards like brainstorm and daze to fill the yard, but I really think a 1 of become immense is serious gas in a lot of match ups. Become immense+rancor is instant kill unblocked. Will test later this week to see what I can conjure up.
Gitaxian Probe seems like a good way to get what you need in the bin faster, he was running 3.
Not really sure, seems like there are other pumps that will get you there more consistently.
I have to tell you though, I am liking the way this Treasure Cruise/Delve format is reducing the number of BGx decks being played. There is nothing I hate more as an Infect player than a turn 1 Thoughtseize.
With regards to Delve cards (mostly this applies to Treasure Cruise, but here it means Become Immense), the decks that play them usually have:
1) low creature/permanent count, and/or
2) high cantrip count
Some examples:
Delver - usually 14 creatures, plays Probe/Remand/Serum Visions/Electrolyze
Burn - 12 creatures
Jeskai Ascendancy - 12 creatures, basically half their deck is cantrips
Scapeshift (Dig) - 6 creatures
Twin (Dig) - 14 creatures max, plays a similar cantrip suite as Delver
The reason this works is that creatures don't feed your graveyard, unless they die. (You wouldn't want them to die if you had the choice. Exception: Sakura-Tribe Elder, which you can sac.) On the other hand instants and sorceries do. Cantrips do double duty: they feed your graveyard AND improve your hand, which is important for the combo decks. Serum Visions also assists in flipping Delver.
So how does this translate to Infect? The BUG version plays 16 creatures main, so it definitely can't support Become Immense. The mono-green version has 12 creatures so theoretically it could, but then there is the issue of Rancor, which you want to play because it lets your creatures punch through, but unfortunately doesn't feed Become Immense.
A few ideas I have, at the moment, for a Become Immense build:
1) A "creature" base of 4 Elf, 4 Hierarch, 4 Myr, 4 Sylvan Scrying. Scrying acts as a creature (Inkmoth) while feeding your graveyard.
2) 4 Elf, 4 Myr, 4 Necropede, 4 Ancient Stirrings.
3) Predator's Strike in place of Rancor.
Note that all the above is solely aimed at reducing Become Immense to one green mana as efficiently as possible. It does not consider whether resolving that Become Immense will make a significant difference in the outcome of the game, or whether the sacrifices you have to make to build around it will decrease your overall win rate.
With regards to the Legacy version, much of what I've said about Delve cards holds, I believe. The Legacy Infect decks play 13 creatures max. In addition to Brainstorm and Gitaxian Probe, they also have Crop Rotation (aka better Sylvan Scrying - the sacced land is another card to Delve away). The Legacy deck can support Become Immense easily, for these reasons. Whether the Modern deck can remains to be seen.
I'm not sure if this has come up, but how can we beat Burn? Is it the same as UWR, do we rely on Wild Defiance? I've been having a really hard time dealing with the Burn matchup to the point where I've considered switching to a faster deck like Twin or Delver.
@Izzetmage, nice post, there is certainly some things to consider there. Become Immense just feels like a bit of a win more card that is going to get stuck in your hand some of the time. Kind of reminds me of Revenge of the Hunted. Still, it is worth pondering, there could be a good build for it. I actually used to run an Ancient Stirrings artifact creatures build a while back, which brought me some success, before Sylvan Scrying caught my attention.
I'm not sure if this has come up, but how can we beat Burn? Is it the same as UWR, do we rely on Wild Defiance? I've been having a really hard time dealing with the Burn matchup to the point where I've considered switching to a faster deck like Twin or Delver.
MonoG has been matching up just fine for me against burn. The fact that it doesn't take any damage from the mana base quite often means an extra turn, and burn isn't great at blocking.
Necropede has been great too against Burn and UR Delver. It is basically a removal spell on an Infect body against those decks. Even turning a Goblin Guide into a 1/1 land filtering machine after they bolt the pede, can turn the game. Again it can slow them down by a turn, which is quite often all you need.
Commenting on the recent trend started by Tom the Boss, to run main deck Viridian Corrupter in UG, is no longer a viable option (sideboard is still good though). Ichorclaw Myr was played in that slot previously, perhaps it is time to put Necropede there and give it a genuine test.
Also, whatever version you run, boarding in Spellskite is good against burn.
Interestingly, way back in standard for the brief time that Cathedral of War was legal at the same time as infect, delver was dominating the format and the MonoG Cathedral deck did really well against it. Who knows, maybe history is repeating
Is it wise to board in a couple of Tormod's Crypt against decks with Snapcaster Mage and Treasure Cruise? Or would that be too preemptive? :/
4x Giant Growth
4x Groundswell
4x Might of Old Krosa
4x Mutagenic Growth
4x Vines of Vastwood
4x Rancor
Creature (16)
4x Glistener Elf
2x Ichorclaw Myr
2x Necropede
4x Phyrexian Crusader
4x Plague Stinger
7x Forest
2x Inkmoth Nexus
4x Overgrown Tomb
3x Swamp
4x Verdant Catacombs
RUG Temur Deprive Delver
BUG Sultai Deprive Delver
2x Bloodstained Mire
2x Forest
4x Inkmoth Nexus
2x Misty Rainforest
4x Overgrown Tomb
1x Swamp
4x Verdant Catacombs
2x Wooded Foothills
4x Abrupt Decay
4x Giant Growth
4x Groundswell
4x Might of Old Krosa
4x Vines of Vastwood
Creature (11)
4x Glistener Elf
3x Ichorclaw Myr
4x Plague Stinger
4x Inquisition of Kozilek
Enchantment (4)
4x Rancor
RUG Temur Deprive Delver
BUG Sultai Deprive Delver
If you add blue you get Blighted Agent. If you add black on top of that you get Plague Stinger (and a better sideboard). If you add white you get...Lost Leonin? Or you continue using Necropede lol.
You don't need Gods Willing for protection since you already have 4 Vines and 4 Blessing. If your reason for playing Gods Willing is that it makes your creature unblockable, cut out the middleman and play an unblockable creature (i.e. Blighted Agent) instead.
Ajani is going to be really hard to cast, given that this deck's main color is green, plays at least 4 colorless lands, and Ajani himself costs 2 mana in the splash color.
| Ad Nauseam
| Infect
Big Johnny.
3x Abrupt Decay
2x Apostle's Blessing
2x Dismember
4x Groundswell
4x Might of Old Krosa
4x Mutagenic Growth
4x Vines of Vastwood
Enchantment (2)
2x Rancor
Land (20)
2x Forest
4x Inkmoth Nexus
4x Misty Rainforest
4x Overgrown Tomb
2x Pendelhaven
4x Verdant Catacombs
3x Inquisition of Kozilek
4x Nature's Claim
3x Defense Grid
4x Tormod's Crypt
2x Viridian Corrupter
Creature (12)
4x Glistener Elf
4x Ichorclaw Myr
4x Plague Stinger
RUG Temur Deprive Delver
BUG Sultai Deprive Delver
Round 1: 2-0 against American Control (really good match-up)
Round 2: 1-2 against UR Twin (got out-Spellskite-ed; he should have been dead. Close game)
Round 3: 2-1 against Burn (WOOO STILL PERFECT RECORD XD)
Round 4: 1-2 against Melira Pod (Game 1 was lost w/ him at 9 poison; G2 was super-grindy flinging removal back and forth eventually a Rancored Glistener Elf went to town. G3 he went aggro while I got 2 Nature's CLaim dead in my hand.
I have to admit, I was happy with Necropede since it keeps Burn's early creatures at bay. Wasn't happy with Marrow Shards with testing against UR/w Delver (with Treasure Cruise; by the time he attacked the Delver's already flipped and he never includes Young Pyromancer
I'm thinking of putting 2 Wild Defiance in its place. I've always wanted to use this but I've had doubts of how to use it effectively. Am I right to think that I'd play this first before my infect dorks? Wouldn't this dud against UR decks since they'll counter it anyway, plus it's sorcery speed unlike your 1cc protection spells? What if my opponent is Zoo who can race me both board and to da face?
As you can see; Im not adaptable to changes in the SB >.< (I like having a consistent routine to follow depending on my match-ups) I need help o.O How do I SB this card? Like what should I take out, what decks do I bring it in against and how do I maximize it? Feedback is much appreciated!!
I wouldn't recommend Wild Defiance unless you are running Noble Hierarch to accelerate it out.
3x Abrupt Decay
2x Apostle's Blessing
2x Dismember
4x Groundswell
4x Might of Old Krosa
4x Mutagenic Growth
1x Ranger's Guile
4x Vines of Vastwood
Land (21)
3x Forest
4x Inkmoth Nexus
4x Misty Rainforest
4x Overgrown Tomb
2x Pendelhaven
4x Verdant Catacombs
3x Inquisition of Kozilek
Enchantment (4)
4x Rancor
2x Apostle's Blessing
4x Nature's Claim
3x Defense Grid
4x Tormod's Crypt
2x Viridian Corrupter
Creature (8)
4x Glistener Elf
4x Plague Stinger
RUG Temur Deprive Delver
BUG Sultai Deprive Delver
1. I recently got Noble Hierarchs and I have found them to be quite useful in the Mono Green build with the extra mana allowing to fight spell wars to save infect guys. Do you think it is worth it? (Cuts were 1 Cathedral, 2 Rancor, 1 Groundswell)
2. Does mono black infect do well against the aggressive strategies of UR Delver and Burn? It looks pretty good on paper with cheap removal, disruption and resilient threats though treasure cruise against hand disruption is very good. (I've shown CLYDE's mono-black list from ~August as an example)
12 Forest
4 Inkmoth Nexus
3 Cathedral of War
2 Pendelhaven
CREATURES
4 Glistener Elf
4 Ichorclaw Myr
4 Necropede
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Apostle's Blessing
4 Giant Growth
3 Groundswell
4 Mutagenic Growth
4 Vines of Vastwood
2 Dismember
OTHER SPELLS
2 Rancor
1 Autumn's Veil
1 Creeping Corrosion
2 Dismember
1 Guttural Response
4 Nature's Claim
1 Spellskite
3 Tormod's Crypt
2 Wild Defiance
17 Swamp
4 Inkmoth Nexus
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
CREATURES
4 Phyrexian Crusader
4 Phyrexian Vatmother
INSTANTS and SORC.
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Disfigure
4 Funeral Charm
3 Night's Whisper
3 Doom Blade
2 Victim of Night
2 Raven's Crime
2 Wrench Mind
1 Blackmail
1 Thoughtseize
1 Devour Flesh
2 Runechanter's Pike
1 Phyrexian Arena
1 Doom Blade
1 Blackmail
1 Thoughtseize
4 Leyline of the Void
4 Duress
2 Bile Blight
2 Pithing Needle
I do have to agree that Wild Defiance does look like an interesting sideboard option. Always feels like the bigest problem I have with infect post-board is the fact that all my guys are 1/1, and that would help tremendously against red in particular.
Thanks for the link. I've been very unimpressed with Rancor in my matches. It has done work in some but in others it feels like a liability, especially drawing 2 of them when I need threats or need to protect them. Not to mention that it is a bit mana-intensive with Inkmoth.
@Ikkynikinae
I have yet to resolve a Wild Defiance. While it should be good against UWR Control and Twin, seems a bit too slow against Delver and Burn and I'm not sure it's the solution for those matchups :/
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=75643
Gitaxian Probe seems like a good way to get what you need in the bin faster, he was running 3.
Not really sure, seems like there are other pumps that will get you there more consistently.
I have to tell you though, I am liking the way this Treasure Cruise/Delve format is reducing the number of BGx decks being played. There is nothing I hate more as an Infect player than a turn 1 Thoughtseize.
1) low creature/permanent count, and/or
2) high cantrip count
Some examples:
Delver - usually 14 creatures, plays Probe/Remand/Serum Visions/Electrolyze
Burn - 12 creatures
Jeskai Ascendancy - 12 creatures, basically half their deck is cantrips
Scapeshift (Dig) - 6 creatures
Twin (Dig) - 14 creatures max, plays a similar cantrip suite as Delver
The reason this works is that creatures don't feed your graveyard, unless they die. (You wouldn't want them to die if you had the choice. Exception: Sakura-Tribe Elder, which you can sac.) On the other hand instants and sorceries do. Cantrips do double duty: they feed your graveyard AND improve your hand, which is important for the combo decks. Serum Visions also assists in flipping Delver.
So how does this translate to Infect? The BUG version plays 16 creatures main, so it definitely can't support Become Immense. The mono-green version has 12 creatures so theoretically it could, but then there is the issue of Rancor, which you want to play because it lets your creatures punch through, but unfortunately doesn't feed Become Immense.
A few ideas I have, at the moment, for a Become Immense build:
1) A "creature" base of 4 Elf, 4 Hierarch, 4 Myr, 4 Sylvan Scrying. Scrying acts as a creature (Inkmoth) while feeding your graveyard.
2) 4 Elf, 4 Myr, 4 Necropede, 4 Ancient Stirrings.
3) Predator's Strike in place of Rancor.
Note that all the above is solely aimed at reducing Become Immense to one green mana as efficiently as possible. It does not consider whether resolving that Become Immense will make a significant difference in the outcome of the game, or whether the sacrifices you have to make to build around it will decrease your overall win rate.
With regards to the Legacy version, much of what I've said about Delve cards holds, I believe. The Legacy Infect decks play 13 creatures max. In addition to Brainstorm and Gitaxian Probe, they also have Crop Rotation (aka better Sylvan Scrying - the sacced land is another card to Delve away). The Legacy deck can support Become Immense easily, for these reasons. Whether the Modern deck can remains to be seen.
| Ad Nauseam
| Infect
Big Johnny.
UW Approach UW
EDH
U Azami, Lady of Scrolls U
MonoG has been matching up just fine for me against burn. The fact that it doesn't take any damage from the mana base quite often means an extra turn, and burn isn't great at blocking.
Necropede has been great too against Burn and UR Delver. It is basically a removal spell on an Infect body against those decks. Even turning a Goblin Guide into a 1/1 land filtering machine after they bolt the pede, can turn the game. Again it can slow them down by a turn, which is quite often all you need.
Commenting on the recent trend started by Tom the Boss, to run main deck Viridian Corrupter in UG, is no longer a viable option (sideboard is still good though). Ichorclaw Myr was played in that slot previously, perhaps it is time to put Necropede there and give it a genuine test.
Also, whatever version you run, boarding in Spellskite is good against burn.